Ten Days 1D -- skipping 10d for now ...

Till Krueger · Apr 11, 2003

i feel your pain about the Nikon D1 issues...i have owned a D1H until 2 weeks ago (2 AFS lenses and thousands in other accessories and lenses)...

i liked the Nikon D1H a lot, but there were a few things Nikon screwed up in updating from the D1...i don't feel like going into details, but battery performance and inability to keep shooting once the buffer fills up (unless you take your finger off the trigger and wait until the buffer frees up some) were two killers for me.

then came along the DELL deal, i made the plunge, sold all my Nikon gear at a huge loss, but to a very good friend who's needs are more than met by it...2 weeks with the 1D have been wonderous...a phantastic piece of equipment...it has it's faults:

battery performance much better than my D1H, but not stellar (300-500)

"starfield effect" in long exposures much more pronounced than in the CMOS based 10D.

some parts of the camera (such as the CF card door) actually feel a bit less "beefy" than on Nikon D1.

a green cast in in-camera JPEG's needs to be corrected with a custom tone curve.

hmmm...let's see what else...

nope, that all i can come up with, and only because you were prying...other than that it's all bitchin'...as a matter of fact, it's hard to put 'er down, because the thing feels and shoots like a deadly weapon...such fast response and awesome design quality are really something you can't do without once you started using it...

yes, i know the 10D is better in long exposures and creates images that look more "buttery", but to me the quality of the shooting experience is just as important as the image quality...here, the 1D wins by a wider margin over the 10D, than the image "quality" margin by which the 10D wins over the 1D...i put "quality" into quotation marks, because it is subjective what makes a good-looking image...content is WAY more important on that scale, than 4MP vs. 6MP, or geeky things like that.

'nough said...you'll LOVE it!

Ger Bee said:
............ am skipping the 10D for now, primarily as I have a
buyer for my D1x so am trading against a 1D instead and its ETA is
ten days. A 16~35mm 2.8 L with 550 flash is arriving as well to
start.

So what are the problems? Vis-à-vis getting good technical shots
and the stuff that only comes up in these forums.

Cheers.

--
Eos means new dawn, let the show begin ....

Stefan Schott · Apr 11, 2003

Till Krueger said:
but battery performance

Abysmal indeed, I agree.

Till Krueger said:
and inability to keep shooting
once the buffer fills up

That's a really stupid mis-design, isn't it? Incredible, really. Shared unfortunately by the D60 and 10D.

Till Krueger said:
battery performance much better than my D1H, but not stellar

(300-500)

If you disable LCD review and shoot in quick succession (e.g. a 2 hr sport event) you can expect as many as 2,000 frames from one battery.

Till Krueger said:
"starfield effect" in long exposures much more pronounced than in

the CMOS based 10D.

That's true. Unfortunately.

Till Krueger said:
some parts of the camera (such as the CF card door) actually feel

a bit less "beefy" than on Nikon D1.

Really? Well, if that's your impression. But it's nicely sealed against the elements, this much is certain.

Till Krueger said:
a green cast in in-camera JPEG's needs to be corrected with a

custom tone curve.

Never seen this in thousands of jpgs from my 1D. Not once.

Till Krueger said:
because the thing feels and shoots like
a deadly weapon...

LOL - but right. I like to call it the civilian's Kalaschnikow ;-)

Till Krueger said:
than the image "quality"
margin by which the 10D wins over the 1D...i put "quality" into
quotation marks, because it is subjective what makes a good-looking
image...

It is indeed. From my subjective point of view, the 1D has a better image quality than the 10D. In-camera jpegs look sharper (always and with all lenses) and the tonal range and color reproduction (especially accuracy of neutral greys) are in a class of their own (only other member: 1Ds).

Just my 2 cents worth.

Ciao
Stefan

Till Krueger · Apr 11, 2003

Stefan, glad to see that we're on the same wavelength...

Stefan Schott said:
Stefan Schott said:

and inability to keep shooting
once the buffer fills up

Click to expand...

That's a really stupid mis-design, isn't it? Incredible, really.
Shared unfortunately by the D60 and 10D.

i didn't know the D60 and 10D also couldn't do that...one more chalk up for the 1D

Stefan Schott said:
Stefan Schott said:

battery performance much better than my D1H, but not stellar

(300-500)

Click to expand...

If you disable LCD review and shoot in quick succession (e.g. a 2
hr sport event) you can expect as many as 2,000 frames from one
battery.

WOW! that's great news...i have done a lot of timelaps photography with my D1...i was able to get up to 1500 shots over the course of a couple of hours (at a rate of about one frame every 2-3 seconds) on one battery with the D1...of course, i was focusing manually and had image review off...very cool to hear that this may be possible with the 1D !!

Stefan Schott said:
Stefan Schott said:

some parts of the camera (such as the CF card door) actually feel

a bit less "beefy" than on Nikon D1.

Click to expand...

Really? Well, if that's your impression. But it's nicely sealed
against the elements, this much is certain.

oh totally! the overall weather-sealing is one of the main reasons i switched...the whole camera feels incredible, and i was nit-picking the one and only impression i had that wasn't 100% awed.

Stefan Schott said:
Stefan Schott said:

a green cast in in-camera JPEG's needs to be corrected with a

custom tone curve.

Click to expand...

Never seen this in thousands of jpgs from my 1D. Not once.

hmmm...i heared that not everyone was experiencing that...in any case, it works perfectly well with the new curve...maybe only the 28-135IS exhibits this...i brought that one back for a 24-70/2.8L...i was missing my AFS lenses...i'll have to see whther maybe this lens renders the curve unnecessary...

Stefan Schott said:
Stefan Schott said:

because the thing feels and shoots like
a deadly weapon...

Click to expand...

LOL - but right. I like to call it the civilian's Kalaschnikow ;-)

yes, i can see that...it really has that machine-gun like quality of just ratteling off in such a controlled manner...not that i have shot any machine guns...i did shoot some 30-30's and 30 odd 6's when i was exiled to Alabama as a German exchange students...shooting the 1D feels just as "what the f* " as those big caliber guns, only so much more creative

sorry if i offend anyone...but it's just that freakin' precise and well thought out.

Stefan Schott said:
Ciao
Stefan

Ciao and Tschuess.
till

dave newton · Apr 11, 2003

I have a friend, a sports shooter, who has two 1D's. As a Nikon user, I have to say these are impressive machines and feel marvelous in the hands but can they replace a D1x for all-around usefulness? I shoot some tabletop products for catalog and print advertising and do some wedding work. How is the E-TTL flash to work with for location people shots? How about the 4 mp resolution for studio work? I was surprised to see the price drop under $3400 for the 1D. This is approaching my range of affordability. I current shoot with a D100 and have been eyeing-up the D1x. I would prefer to hear from Nikon converts primarily. Why did you switch over and was the move right for you? I should add that I don't have that many lenses to re-purchase if I convert. I was planning on buying the new VR 70-200 buy have not yet, so it would be a 20-35 (or thereabouts), 28-105 and a couple primes.

Dave

--
Imagination Rules The World!

Ger Bee · Apr 12, 2003

Stefan Schott said:
BTW, Nill is not a bigger whatever than you. This kind of
agressive posting, while totally common in the Nikon forum where
you came from, is not appreciated over here.

Ciao
Stefan

.......... strangely I was going to reply to Nil that his comment is typical of the Nikon forum --- maybe I should have.

Fabulous reading, your link, greatly appreciate this. And I will work on my manner.

--
Eos** means New Dawn, let the show begin ....

Ger Bee · Apr 12, 2003

........ but you know these forums, and I’m very late taking on a new camera so I've missed the learning curve, which is one reason I tend to buy at launch time actually, we all learn together and its great.

But problems that the 1D launched with are not relevant today and the search is not this site’s best feature.

Anyway my post is getting the desired reaction and I am getting useful info, so thanks, and I apologise again --- as Stephan said, this is not the Nikon forum!!

Nill Toulme said:
Nice to meet you too. It was actually a very helpful reply, if
you'd just try it.

--
Eos** means New Dawn, let the show begin ....

Ger Bee · Apr 12, 2003

................... but I've come for a prescription and it seems to be working already. ...

)

So, this is what Phil refers to in his review, then it raises the question if I run it at a slower rate, say 5FPS, will the split image characteristics be any less?

Dave Kunze said:
The only niggle I've heard about the 1D is that the 8 fps speed is
achieved by dumping the image data into two buffers at once (or
something akin to this). It will occasionally show up as an image
with two different gammas or color sets, split down the middle.
Granted, it is subtle, and not a frequent occurrence, but does
happen. Other than that, getting used to the Canon E-TTL, and the
different menu system should be the only adjustments to make for
your PJ work.

kunza

--
Eos** means New Dawn, let the show begin ....

Ger Bee · Apr 12, 2003

Till Krueger said:
battery performance much better than my D1H, but not stellar

(300-500)

............. this will be stellar for me, the D1h was always mcuh better than the X.

Till Krueger said:
a green cast in in-camera JPEG's needs to be corrected with a

custom tone curve.

......... good. This part of Phil's review left me reeling, so I said I'll come back to it when the camera arrives.

Till Krueger said:
hmmm...let's see what else...

nope, that all i can come up with, and only because you were
prying...

Thanks, Ger
--
Eos** means New Dawn, let the show begin ....

Ger Bee · Apr 12, 2003

Stefan Schott said:
Stefan Schott said:

battery performance much better than my D1H, but not stellar

(300-500)

Click to expand...

If you disable LCD review and shoot in quick succession (e.g. a 2
hr sport event) you can expect as many as 2,000 frames from one
battery.

........... incredibly, but I know nothing. Do you meant no review at all or just the auto review after each shot?

And can I leave the camera switched “ON” ~ many Nikons had a tendency to drain away the battery in this mode quite rapidly ~ for a day say and use intermittently?

--
Eos** means New Dawn, let the show begin ....

Dave Kunze · Apr 12, 2003

There hasn't been a lot of postings on the forums about this. Due to the nature of the Canon SLR Forum, (posting ad nausea about every little flaw, whether perceived or real), I tend to think this is of minor concern. I personally use a 1Ds and cannot provide in depth, hands-on information on the 1D. I am however, looking forward to having a 1D for backup and sports use, as soon as finances allow.

Welcome, old friend. It's good to see your threads on a regular basis again.

kunza

Ger Bee said:
................... but I've come for a prescription and it seems
to be working already. ... )

So, this is what Phil refers to in his review, then it raises the
question if I run it at a slower rate, say 5FPS, will the split
image characteristics be any less?

Dave Kunze wrote:

--
Eos** means New Dawn, let the show begin ....

Arnie Mauer · Apr 12, 2003

The camera can be set for either high speed (8 fps) or low speed (3 fps). The latter, if fast enough, should avoid any problems. To date though, even though I don't do a lot of 8 fps work, I haven't noticed any problems. Most seem to be related to indor lighting.

Arnie

Ger Bee said:
So, this is what Phil refers to in his review, then it raises the
question if I run it at a slower rate, say 5FPS, will the split
image characteristics be any less?

Dave Kunze said:

The only niggle I've heard about the 1D is that the 8 fps speed is
achieved by dumping the image data into two buffers at once (or
something akin to this). It will occasionally show up as an image
with two different gammas or color sets, split down the middle.
Granted, it is subtle, and not a frequent occurrence, but does
happen. Other than that, getting used to the Canon E-TTL, and the
different menu system should be the only adjustments to make for
your PJ work.

kunza

Click to expand...

--
Eos** means New Dawn, let the show begin ....

hockeyshooter · Apr 12, 2003

Dave Kunze said:
The only niggle I've heard about the 1D is that the 8 fps speed is
achieved by dumping the image data into two buffers at once (or
something akin to this). It will occasionally show up as an image
with two different gammas or color sets, split down the middle.

I'm over 8000 frames into my 1D, used under the widest variety of lighting types and conditions, and I've never seen that. What I have seen is one frame in an 8fps sequence showing a completely different colour balance to the previous frame, but that was down to the strobing effect of mains-powered lights.

Chris.
--
Freelance sports photography
http://www.hockeyphotos.com/

Nill Toulme · Apr 12, 2003

No problem... my response wasn't quite as welcoming as it should have been either. So how's this instead: Congrats on a good choice, welcome to the 1D, and welcome to the forum. You're gonna love them both.

Nill
~~
http://www.toulme.net

Ger Bee said:
But problems that the 1D launched with are not relevant today and
the search is not this site’s best feature.

Anyway my post is getting the desired reaction and I am getting
useful info, so thanks, and I apologise again --- as Stephan said,
this is not the Nikon forum!!

Nill Toulme said:

Nice to meet you too. It was actually a very helpful reply, if
you'd just try it.

Click to expand...

--
Eos** means New Dawn, let the show begin ....

Nill Toulme · Apr 12, 2003

Ger -- (do you go by Ger or Bee?) -- see this thread regarding the split CCD phenomenon:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=3774824

My first sample suffered from it badly but was sent back as defective. The second one has never exhibited it -- or any particularly noticeable banding -- under any circumstances, so I believe that while this may have been a general problem with the earliest samples, it is now down to a sample-defect issue. FWIW, I was shooting in single shot mode when I discovered it in the first camera, and I shoot my current camera in 8fps mode more often than not, so I tend to think the two are not related.

Check your camera for it when it comes in by shooting some frames of a large dark subject (like the stage curtain in the samples I posted in that thread) at high ISO and underexpose a bit. That will bring it out if anything will.

Nill
~~
http://www.toulme.net

Ger Bee said:
So, this is what Phil refers to in his review, then it raises the
question if I run it at a slower rate, say 5FPS, will the split
image characteristics be any less?

Dave Kunze said:

The only niggle I've heard about the 1D is that the 8 fps speed is
achieved by dumping the image data into two buffers at once (or
something akin to this). It will occasionally show up as an image
with two different gammas or color sets, split down the middle.
Granted, it is subtle, and not a frequent occurrence, but does
happen. Other than that, getting used to the Canon E-TTL, and the
different menu system should be the only adjustments to make for
your PJ work.

kunza

Click to expand...

--
Eos** means New Dawn, let the show begin ....

Nill Toulme · Apr 12, 2003

No offense, mind... I have a funny name too. At least yours is short for something, I see. Mine just is what it is. My mother's side is Irish way back, BTW.

Nill
~~
http://www.toulme.net

Nill Toulme said:
Ger -- (do you go by Ger or Bee?) --

Stefan Schott · Apr 12, 2003

Ger Bee said:
Ger Bee said:

Ger Bee said:

battery performance much better than my D1H, but not stellar

(300-500)

Click to expand...

If you disable LCD review and shoot in quick succession (e.g. a 2
hr sport event) you can expect as many as 2,000 frames from one
battery.

Click to expand...

........... incredibly, but I know nothing. Do you meant no review
at all or just the auto review after each shot?

That's the one. No problem checking you histogram once in a while when there is time, e.g. during a breakdown in the game due to injury.

Ger Bee said:
And can I leave the camera switched “ON” ~ many Nikons had a
tendency to drain away the battery in this mode quite rapidly ~ for
a day say and use intermittently?

That depends on the configuration of your auto-shutoff time. As long as the camera is on, the CCD is being powered and this is what uses up the battery (if the LCD is not used it's pretty much the only thing) . The actual shooting and writing to CF uses up surprisingly little power according to my experience. Some people say you can use your D-SLR for x hours, regardless of how many photographs you make in that time. I find there is much truth in this and it applies to both Nikon and Canon (again - provided you don't use the LCD much at all).

This is some interesting reading on the subject of power drain: http://www.vinland.com/Power_Drain.html

Also of general interest: http://www.vinland.com/Battery.html

Ciao
Stefan

This is also the reason why one should switch off the camera, time permitting, to change lenses - as long as the CCD is under power, its static charge will attract the much-dreaded dust like a magnet.

Stefan Schott · Apr 12, 2003

Nill Toulme said:
FWIW, I
was shooting in single shot mode when I discovered it in the first
camera, and I shoot my current camera in 8fps mode more often than
not, so I tend to think the two are not related.

Affirmative. I was also in single-shot when I first discovered this problem. And at ISO 200, FWIW. But I admit I did underexpose the shot to get a certain desired effect. I have not seen it in "correctly" exposed images to date.

Ciao
Stefan

Nill Toulme · Apr 12, 2003

I carry three, but about the only time I ever get into the third one is when I'm shooting a tournament. Rarely have to change batteries for a single game unless I forgot to top up, usually filling two 1 gig MD's, about 600 frames, in a game, using auto review, AI servo AF and sometimes IS, but shooting rapidly (obviously).

The batteries are big and heavy and expensive, especially compared to the lovely little lithium-ion batteries of the D30/D60/10D, but they seem to work well enough. The charger will handle two at a time.

As for leaving the camera switched on, yes, but also it comes to life so quickly at power on that you can afford to let it turn itself off in a lot of circumstances where you are shooting intermittently and want to preserve your battery. I also turn off auto review in that case.

Nill
~~
http://www.toulme.net

Ger Bee said:
Ger Bee said:

Ger Bee said:

battery performance much better than my D1H, but not stellar

(300-500)

Click to expand...

If you disable LCD review and shoot in quick succession (e.g. a 2
hr sport event) you can expect as many as 2,000 frames from one
battery.

Click to expand...

........... incredibly, but I know nothing. Do you meant no review
at all or just the auto review after each shot?

And can I leave the camera switched “ON” ~ many Nikons had a
tendency to drain away the battery in this mode quite rapidly ~ for
a day say and use intermittently?

--
Eos** means New Dawn, let the show begin ....

Stefan Schott · Apr 12, 2003

dave newton said:
but can they replace a D1x for all-around
usefulness?

Hell yeah! As long as you don't try astro- or night photography and don't underexpose your shots too much. I always found the interpolation that's going on in a D1x to be a degrading factor for image quality. 1D images, albeit "only" 4 mp, enlarge very nicely. The 1D actually has a higher native vertical resolution than the D1x.

dave newton said:
I shoot some tabletop products for catalog and print
advertising and do some wedding work.

I shoot everything ;-)

The only time I found the 1D "wanting" so far was when a portrait I shot had to be blown up to DIN-A1 size @ 300 dpi ( ~~24 by 33 inches) for a CMYK offset print. But I swear that would have been too much for a 6 mp image as well. Too bad the 1Ds is so darn expensive....~~

dave newton said:
How is the E-TTL flash to
work with for location people shots?

I have no complaints in that department. I use a Metz 54 MZ3 on my 1D. But all things being equal, I still prefer my Metz 60 CT4 in "A" mode....

dave newton said:
How about the 4 mp resolution
for studio work?

See above. It depends on the output size. Had I known they were gonna blow it up to A1, I would have used my medium-format film equipment.

dave newton said:
I would
prefer to hear from Nikon converts primarily. Why did you switch
over and was the move right for you?

For me it was. Definitely. I'm not looking back.

You can read "my whole story" here: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=4229010

One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread as yet is the phantastic choice of lenses Canon offers, in particular if you like USM ( AF-S). Or try buying a 24mm tilt/shift lens for your Nikon.... Or a 2.0/135mm with USM and outstanding quality at f=2.0... or any prime lens under 300mm with USM.... Not even talking about the number of stabilized Canon lenses that can be had...

Ciao
Stefan

Stefan Schott · Apr 12, 2003

Nill Toulme said:
The batteries are big and heavy and expensive,

Well yes, but compared to the Snickers-bars that go inside a D1x, they are OK. Incredibly, they last longer although they "only" have about 1,500 mAh, whereas the Nikons have 2,000 mAh.

I wish I had a Dollar for every time I was praying to get through a shoot with my D1x and three batteries. For the 1D I only carry two batteries but most of the time I'm quite relaxed about it ;-)

Greetings
Stefan

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