RAW White Balance, Sharpenning, etc

alabaster

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Help if you can. I’m a little confused with what is happening to RAW files in the D100. Are WHITE BALANCE, SHARPENNING, HUE, CONTRAST, etc, settings being applied to raw data, or not?

For example, I would imagine that the WB setting must be applied to RAW data; otherwise, they’d be a bit of a mess. RAW data is supposedly the data recorded directly from the DAC post CCD sensor. But when you look at the LCD preview, it reflects the WB setting you have selected. So, what goes on?

--
Alabaster
 
Yes everything is applied as usual, the difference is you can change it afterwards using Nikon Capture.
Help if you can. I’m a little confused with what is happening to
RAW files in the D100. Are WHITE BALANCE, SHARPENNING, HUE,
CONTRAST, etc, settings being applied to raw data, or not?

For example, I would imagine that the WB setting must be applied to
RAW data; otherwise, they’d be a bit of a mess. RAW data is
supposedly the data recorded directly from the DAC post CCD sensor.
But when you look at the LCD preview, it reflects the WB setting
you have selected. So, what goes on?

--
Alabaster
 
Yes everything is applied as usual, the difference is you can
change it afterwards using Nikon Capture.
To be a little bit more precise on a technical level, WB, sharpening,
etc... is actually applied in Nikon Capture for raw data. The only
thing the camera does is tagging the file with the current settings,
instructing NC how to process it.

Vtie
 
Yes everything is applied as usual, the difference is you can
change it afterwards using Nikon Capture.
To be a little bit more precise on a technical level, WB, sharpening,
etc... is actually applied in Nikon Capture for raw data. The only
thing the camera does is tagging the file with the current settings,
instructing NC how to process it.

Vtie
So, I presume that the D100 preview on the LCD also reads these tags from the RAW file header, and applies WB, CONTRAST, etc, to the image on the LCD, and to the histogram display. Is this true?
--
Alabaster
 
Vtie:

1- In the previews D1's, nothing was applied appart from the white balance, the Software would read the information recorded with NEF & applies it after,

But recently I've seen some difference with D1x's NEF, Nikon View applies the sharpening (that was recorded by the camera) to the image while the setting in NikonView says sharpening off. & you try to change it in Nikon View & that was adding sharpening to the sharpeness.

Nikon View is dealing different with D1 than with D1x, to be honest I don't know what's going on.
This I'm telling by trying to files, 1 from a D1 & 1 from D1x.

2- are you the author of PhotoControl?

Dave
Yes everything is applied as usual, the difference is you can
change it afterwards using Nikon Capture.
To be a little bit more precise on a technical level, WB, sharpening,
etc... is actually applied in Nikon Capture for raw data. The only
thing the camera does is tagging the file with the current settings,
instructing NC how to process it.

Vtie
 
So, I presume that the D100 preview on the LCD also reads these
tags from the RAW file header, and applies WB, CONTRAST, etc, to
the image on the LCD, and to the histogram display. Is this true?
Absolutely.
And it even has to do more: the Bayer interpolation. This is not
done for the raw file, but the camera has to do it in some way
to show the preview. I assume that the image goes through the
same path it would go through for a JPEG just to create the
preview.
The RAW file though only contains the, well, raw pixel readouts
from the CCD. No Bayer interpolation, no sharpening, no WB,
nothing done in camera. It's NC that does it.

Vtie
 
Vtie:

1- In the previews D1's, nothing was applied appart from the white
balance, the Software would read the information recorded with NEF
& applies it after,
But recently I've seen some difference with D1x's NEF, Nikon View
applies the sharpening (that was recorded by the camera) to the
image while the setting in NikonView says sharpening off. & you try
to change it in Nikon View & that was adding sharpening to the
sharpeness.
Nikon View is dealing different with D1 than with D1x, to be honest
I don't know what's going on.
This I'm telling by trying to files, 1 from a D1 & 1 from D1x.
Sounds like something weird in Nikon View.
But the camera really can't apply any sharpening to a RAW file.
RAW files contain data before Bayer interpolation, and there is
no sharpening algorithm that works on that (would be a very bad
idea anyway)
2- are you the author of PhotoControl?
Yes I am... Do you use it?

Vtie
 
Vtie:

1- In the previews D1's, nothing was applied appart from the white
balance, the Software would read the information recorded with NEF
& applies it after,
But recently I've seen some difference with D1x's NEF, Nikon View
applies the sharpening (that was recorded by the camera) to the
image while the setting in NikonView says sharpening off. & you try
to change it in Nikon View & that was adding sharpening to the
sharpeness.
Nikon View is dealing different with D1 than with D1x, to be honest
I don't know what's going on.
This I'm telling by trying to files, 1 from a D1 & 1 from D1x.
Sounds like something weird in Nikon View.
But the camera really can't apply any sharpening to a RAW file.
RAW files contain data before Bayer interpolation, and there is
no sharpening algorithm that works on that (would be a very bad
idea anyway)
2- are you the author of PhotoControl?
Yes I am... Do you use it?

Vtie
Vtie,

Is that why when I shoot in RAW and open the images in Nikon View that the images appear flat in appearance. In other words it does not look as if the WB has been assigned at this point.

When I take the same image and simply open it in NC without making changes the colours or WB setting changes or becomes much more vivid as if the WB settings have been applied.

When I shoot in JPEG the images appear normal or much more realistic without any post processing, however you obviously do not have the advantage of making the EV and WB changes.

--
Al B

Nikon D100 24-85 D / 70- 200VR
http://www.pbase.com/al_b/
 
Vtie

I do use PhotoControl sometimes I like it so much, if I can disscuss few things with you, I'm going to put some samples & challenges shots on my website regarding PhotoControl, PhotoShop & PhotoPaint. I'll let you know where to find it, it's going to be in the next day or so.
Anyway here what I want to say:

1- I love it, it's the only software that does lighten the midtone without washing the colors with one brighen button. (it's doing a bit of color change though which is acceptable, & can be avoided with some curve changes, but I'm talkin about one step brigthen button).

2- I can add contrast without burning highlights

3- saturation is top same with sharpening.

Here what's the problem, I'm NOT talking about a wish list here, this is critical:

1- when you create profiles, lets say 3 or 4 & try to sellect one of them, the software applies something else, I've been batteling with this for so long now, & the only solution for it is to remove all profiles from the main directory & leave the one you want to use for that moment. Here how I've tested it, I made one profile with lots saturation only & called it saturate & one with brightness only & called brighten & one with sharpening etc...

when I came to apply the profile I've chosen the saturate & add to file name saturation, then open the same file again & choose brighten & add brightness insted of default PC & so on....

I end up with brightness for the saturation & all mixed up. Please this is an important issue. the software isn't applying the selected profile, it does sellect an other one from the list.

2- need an on/off buttons for each: saturation, curves, white balance & SPECIALLY sharpening, you have it on all the time, I had to move the intensity to 0 to dissable.

3- bit of speed :) if possible

Vtie, again this is very important piece you're making, & I tell you it'ls more effective than any other software I've seen, when I put the review on my website with some samples, people would really appreciate what I'm talking about. specially the brightness, there is NO way you can get the same result with an other software without burning some little highlights.

Dave
Vtie:

1- In the previews D1's, nothing was applied appart from the white
balance, the Software would read the information recorded with NEF
& applies it after,
But recently I've seen some difference with D1x's NEF, Nikon View
applies the sharpening (that was recorded by the camera) to the
image while the setting in NikonView says sharpening off. & you try
to change it in Nikon View & that was adding sharpening to the
sharpeness.
Nikon View is dealing different with D1 than with D1x, to be honest
I don't know what's going on.
This I'm telling by trying to files, 1 from a D1 & 1 from D1x.
Sounds like something weird in Nikon View.
But the camera really can't apply any sharpening to a RAW file.
RAW files contain data before Bayer interpolation, and there is
no sharpening algorithm that works on that (would be a very bad
idea anyway)
2- are you the author of PhotoControl?
Yes I am... Do you use it?

Vtie
 
it's changing the dpi to 72
Dave
1- I love it, it's the only software that does lighten the midtone
without washing the colors with one brighen button. (it's doing a
bit of color change though which is acceptable, & can be avoided
with some curve changes, but I'm talkin about one step brigthen
button).

2- I can add contrast without burning highlights

3- saturation is top same with sharpening.

Here what's the problem, I'm NOT talking about a wish list here,
this is critical:

1- when you create profiles, lets say 3 or 4 & try to sellect one
of them, the software applies something else, I've been batteling
with this for so long now, & the only solution for it is to remove
all profiles from the main directory & leave the one you want to
use for that moment. Here how I've tested it, I made one profile
with lots saturation only & called it saturate & one with
brightness only & called brighten & one with sharpening etc...
when I came to apply the profile I've chosen the saturate & add to
file name saturation, then open the same file again & choose
brighten & add
brightness insted of default PC & so on....

I end up with brightness for the saturation & all mixed up. Please
this is an important issue. the software isn't applying the
selected profile, it does sellect an other one from the list.

2- need an on/off buttons for each: saturation, curves, white
balance & SPECIALLY sharpening, you have it on all the time, I had
to move the intensity to 0 to dissable.

3- bit of speed :) if possible

Vtie, again this is very important piece you're making, & I tell
you it'ls more effective than any other software I've seen, when I
put the review on my website with some samples, people would really
appreciate what I'm talking about. specially the brightness, there
is NO way you can get the same result with an other software
without burning some little highlights.

Dave
Vtie:

1- In the previews D1's, nothing was applied appart from the white
balance, the Software would read the information recorded with NEF
& applies it after,
But recently I've seen some difference with D1x's NEF, Nikon View
applies the sharpening (that was recorded by the camera) to the
image while the setting in NikonView says sharpening off. & you try
to change it in Nikon View & that was adding sharpening to the
sharpeness.
Nikon View is dealing different with D1 than with D1x, to be honest
I don't know what's going on.
This I'm telling by trying to files, 1 from a D1 & 1 from D1x.
Sounds like something weird in Nikon View.
But the camera really can't apply any sharpening to a RAW file.
RAW files contain data before Bayer interpolation, and there is
no sharpening algorithm that works on that (would be a very bad
idea anyway)
2- are you the author of PhotoControl?
Yes I am... Do you use it?

Vtie
--
 
I am interested in knowing where one can obtain PHOTOCONTROL and if it is better than CAPTURE. Thanks.
1- I love it, it's the only software that does lighten the midtone
without washing the colors with one brighen button. (it's doing a
bit of color change though which is acceptable, & can be avoided
with some curve changes, but I'm talkin about one step brigthen
button).

2- I can add contrast without burning highlights

3- saturation is top same with sharpening.

Here what's the problem, I'm NOT talking about a wish list here,
this is critical:

1- when you create profiles, lets say 3 or 4 & try to sellect one
of them, the software applies something else, I've been batteling
with this for so long now, & the only solution for it is to remove
all profiles from the main directory & leave the one you want to
use for that moment. Here how I've tested it, I made one profile
with lots saturation only & called it saturate & one with
brightness only & called brighten & one with sharpening etc...
when I came to apply the profile I've chosen the saturate & add to
file name saturation, then open the same file again & choose
brighten & add
brightness insted of default PC & so on....

I end up with brightness for the saturation & all mixed up. Please
this is an important issue. the software isn't applying the
selected profile, it does sellect an other one from the list.

2- need an on/off buttons for each: saturation, curves, white
balance & SPECIALLY sharpening, you have it on all the time, I had
to move the intensity to 0 to dissable.

3- bit of speed :) if possible

Vtie, again this is very important piece you're making, & I tell
you it'ls more effective than any other software I've seen, when I
put the review on my website with some samples, people would really
appreciate what I'm talking about. specially the brightness, there
is NO way you can get the same result with an other software
without burning some little highlights.

Dave
Vtie:

1- In the previews D1's, nothing was applied appart from the white
balance, the Software would read the information recorded with NEF
& applies it after,
But recently I've seen some difference with D1x's NEF, Nikon View
applies the sharpening (that was recorded by the camera) to the
image while the setting in NikonView says sharpening off. & you try
to change it in Nikon View & that was adding sharpening to the
sharpeness.
Nikon View is dealing different with D1 than with D1x, to be honest
I don't know what's going on.
This I'm telling by trying to files, 1 from a D1 & 1 from D1x.
Sounds like something weird in Nikon View.
But the camera really can't apply any sharpening to a RAW file.
RAW files contain data before Bayer interpolation, and there is
no sharpening algorithm that works on that (would be a very bad
idea anyway)
2- are you the author of PhotoControl?
Yes I am... Do you use it?

Vtie
--
--
 
I just learned of the existence of PhotoControl through Dave's post in the PC Tools forum. It took a lot of searching, but I finally found an active download link at a German website. Here it is:

http://216.239.33.100/search?q=cache:XVkNC-Qwp28C:www.kandu.dk/dk/news/262756/groupid/20203+photocontrol.zip&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

I've played with the program for a brief while, and agree that it has a very good saturation control. The program is a little confusing at first. Be sure to unselect the "auto process images" box before processing. Otherwise, the user interface will not appear.

Thanks, Dave, for revealing this little-known program - and it's free!

TBoyd
http://www.s4avahost.net/~harmonys/Portfolio/index.htm
1- I love it, it's the only software that does lighten the midtone
without washing the colors with one brighen button. (it's doing a
bit of color change though which is acceptable, & can be avoided
with some curve changes, but I'm talkin about one step brigthen
button).

2- I can add contrast without burning highlights

3- saturation is top same with sharpening.

Here what's the problem, I'm NOT talking about a wish list here,
this is critical:

1- when you create profiles, lets say 3 or 4 & try to sellect one
of them, the software applies something else, I've been batteling
with this for so long now, & the only solution for it is to remove
all profiles from the main directory & leave the one you want to
use for that moment. Here how I've tested it, I made one profile
with lots saturation only & called it saturate & one with
brightness only & called brighten & one with sharpening etc...
when I came to apply the profile I've chosen the saturate & add to
file name saturation, then open the same file again & choose
brighten & add
brightness insted of default PC & so on....

I end up with brightness for the saturation & all mixed up. Please
this is an important issue. the software isn't applying the
selected profile, it does sellect an other one from the list.

2- need an on/off buttons for each: saturation, curves, white
balance & SPECIALLY sharpening, you have it on all the time, I had
to move the intensity to 0 to dissable.

3- bit of speed :) if possible

Vtie, again this is very important piece you're making, & I tell
you it'ls more effective than any other software I've seen, when I
put the review on my website with some samples, people would really
appreciate what I'm talking about. specially the brightness, there
is NO way you can get the same result with an other software
without burning some little highlights.

Dave
Vtie:

1- In the previews D1's, nothing was applied appart from the white
balance, the Software would read the information recorded with NEF
& applies it after,
But recently I've seen some difference with D1x's NEF, Nikon View
applies the sharpening (that was recorded by the camera) to the
image while the setting in NikonView says sharpening off. & you try
to change it in Nikon View & that was adding sharpening to the
sharpeness.
Nikon View is dealing different with D1 than with D1x, to be honest
I don't know what's going on.
This I'm telling by trying to files, 1 from a D1 & 1 from D1x.
Sounds like something weird in Nikon View.
But the camera really can't apply any sharpening to a RAW file.
RAW files contain data before Bayer interpolation, and there is
no sharpening algorithm that works on that (would be a very bad
idea anyway)
2- are you the author of PhotoControl?
Yes I am... Do you use it?

Vtie
--
--
 
I just learned of the existence of PhotoControl through Dave's post
in the PC Tools forum. It took a lot of searching, but I finally
found an active download link at a German website. Here it is:

http://216.239.33.100/search?q=cache:XVkNC-Qwp28C:www.kandu.dk/dk/news/262756/groupid/20203+photocontrol.zip&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

I've played with the program for a brief while, and agree that it
has a very good saturation control. The program is a little
confusing at first. Be sure to unselect the "auto process images"
box before processing. Otherwise, the user interface will not
appear.

Thanks, Dave, for revealing this little-known program - and it's free!
And thank you VTIE - I just noticed you created the program!!
TBoyd
http://www.s4avahost.net/~harmonys/Portfolio/index.htm
1- I love it, it's the only software that does lighten the midtone
without washing the colors with one brighen button. (it's doing a
bit of color change though which is acceptable, & can be avoided
with some curve changes, but I'm talkin about one step brigthen
button).

2- I can add contrast without burning highlights

3- saturation is top same with sharpening.

Here what's the problem, I'm NOT talking about a wish list here,
this is critical:

1- when you create profiles, lets say 3 or 4 & try to sellect one
of them, the software applies something else, I've been batteling
with this for so long now, & the only solution for it is to remove
all profiles from the main directory & leave the one you want to
use for that moment. Here how I've tested it, I made one profile
with lots saturation only & called it saturate & one with
brightness only & called brighten & one with sharpening etc...
when I came to apply the profile I've chosen the saturate & add to
file name saturation, then open the same file again & choose
brighten & add
brightness insted of default PC & so on....

I end up with brightness for the saturation & all mixed up. Please
this is an important issue. the software isn't applying the
selected profile, it does sellect an other one from the list.

2- need an on/off buttons for each: saturation, curves, white
balance & SPECIALLY sharpening, you have it on all the time, I had
to move the intensity to 0 to dissable.

3- bit of speed :) if possible

Vtie, again this is very important piece you're making, & I tell
you it'ls more effective than any other software I've seen, when I
put the review on my website with some samples, people would really
appreciate what I'm talking about. specially the brightness, there
is NO way you can get the same result with an other software
without burning some little highlights.

Dave
Vtie:

1- In the previews D1's, nothing was applied appart from the white
balance, the Software would read the information recorded with NEF
& applies it after,
But recently I've seen some difference with D1x's NEF, Nikon View
applies the sharpening (that was recorded by the camera) to the
image while the setting in NikonView says sharpening off. & you try
to change it in Nikon View & that was adding sharpening to the
sharpeness.
Nikon View is dealing different with D1 than with D1x, to be honest
I don't know what's going on.
This I'm telling by trying to files, 1 from a D1 & 1 from D1x.
Sounds like something weird in Nikon View.
But the camera really can't apply any sharpening to a RAW file.
RAW files contain data before Bayer interpolation, and there is
no sharpening algorithm that works on that (would be a very bad
idea anyway)
2- are you the author of PhotoControl?
Yes I am... Do you use it?

Vtie
 
Al,

To clarify: NEF files record the raw image sensor data, plus the camera settings at the time you take the picture. The shutterspeed, aperture, and filmspeed affect the way the light is recorded by the CCD, and can't be changed after the fact. You can adjust the brightness of the images somewhat using EV compensation, but this is not the same thing as adjusting your exposure settings at the time you take the picture, since a bad exposure will lose detail that is too dark/too bright. Most other settings are applied in post-processing, and can be changed after the fact with perfect results.

When you open a raw file, most programs use the settings saved inside the image as a starting point for processing the raw sensor data into an RGB image. So these settings affect the way the picture looks when it is first displayed. However, if you change any of these settings, the program goes back to the raw image data, applies new values for the settings, and regenerates the RGB image. Thus, if you change WB, sharpening, tone compensation, etc, it should look exactly the same as it would if you used those settings on the camera when you shot the picture.

Duncan C
------
Vtie:

1- In the previews D1's, nothing was applied appart from the white
balance, the Software would read the information recorded with NEF
& applies it after,
But recently I've seen some difference with D1x's NEF, Nikon View
applies the sharpening (that was recorded by the camera) to the
image while the setting in NikonView says sharpening off. & you try
to change it in Nikon View & that was adding sharpening to the
sharpeness.
Nikon View is dealing different with D1 than with D1x, to be honest
I don't know what's going on.
This I'm telling by trying to files, 1 from a D1 & 1 from D1x.
Sounds like something weird in Nikon View.
But the camera really can't apply any sharpening to a RAW file.
RAW files contain data before Bayer interpolation, and there is
no sharpening algorithm that works on that (would be a very bad
idea anyway)
2- are you the author of PhotoControl?
Yes I am... Do you use it?

Vtie
Vtie,
Is that why when I shoot in RAW and open the images in Nikon View
that the images appear flat in appearance. In other words it does
not look as if the WB has been assigned at this point.
When I take the same image and simply open it in NC without making
changes the colours or WB setting changes or becomes much more
vivid as if the WB settings have been applied.
When I shoot in JPEG the images appear normal or much more
realistic without any post processing, however you obviously do not
have the advantage of making the EV and WB changes.

--
Al B

Nikon D100 24-85 D / 70- 200VR
http://www.pbase.com/al_b/
--
dpreview and PBase supporter.



http://www.pbase.com/duncanc
 
Richard

Oh No it doesn't replace capture at all, it's a new born software, that allows you to adjust your image or to enhance it wth:
1- white balance with eye droper

2- Top quality tone curve (the one I like the most) that lets you brighten your image without washing out colors & without burning highlights. I've tested this feature with PP & PS where the tone curve washes out the color a bit & you have to add some contrast to obtain same result like Photocontrol & this my lead to burning some highlights if you image have any.
3- the best Saturation control I ever seen that work with curve for each color.
4- Sharpening is more controlable than PP & PS.

All these can be done with either you open the images one by one or batch'em all.

Note: the program needs bit of adjutments as I mentioned & I"m sure Vtie WILL do something about it soon.

I found this tool is very useful in combination with PP but it takes long time comparing to Photopaint batch proccess, I'm not sure may be the proccess needs to take that much time or this can be quicken a bit I don't know I'll wait for Vtie to answer this.

Dave
1- I love it, it's the only software that does lighten the midtone
without washing the colors with one brighen button. (it's doing a
bit of color change though which is acceptable, & can be avoided
with some curve changes, but I'm talkin about one step brigthen
button).

2- I can add contrast without burning highlights

3- saturation is top same with sharpening.

Here what's the problem, I'm NOT talking about a wish list here,
this is critical:

1- when you create profiles, lets say 3 or 4 & try to sellect one
of them, the software applies something else, I've been batteling
with this for so long now, & the only solution for it is to remove
all profiles from the main directory & leave the one you want to
use for that moment. Here how I've tested it, I made one profile
with lots saturation only & called it saturate & one with
brightness only & called brighten & one with sharpening etc...
when I came to apply the profile I've chosen the saturate & add to
file name saturation, then open the same file again & choose
brighten & add
brightness insted of default PC & so on....

I end up with brightness for the saturation & all mixed up. Please
this is an important issue. the software isn't applying the
selected profile, it does sellect an other one from the list.

2- need an on/off buttons for each: saturation, curves, white
balance & SPECIALLY sharpening, you have it on all the time, I had
to move the intensity to 0 to dissable.

3- bit of speed :) if possible

Vtie, again this is very important piece you're making, & I tell
you it'ls more effective than any other software I've seen, when I
put the review on my website with some samples, people would really
appreciate what I'm talking about. specially the brightness, there
is NO way you can get the same result with an other software
without burning some little highlights.

Dave
Vtie:

1- In the previews D1's, nothing was applied appart from the white
balance, the Software would read the information recorded with NEF
& applies it after,
But recently I've seen some difference with D1x's NEF, Nikon View
applies the sharpening (that was recorded by the camera) to the
image while the setting in NikonView says sharpening off. & you try
to change it in Nikon View & that was adding sharpening to the
sharpeness.
Nikon View is dealing different with D1 than with D1x, to be honest
I don't know what's going on.
This I'm telling by trying to files, 1 from a D1 & 1 from D1x.
Sounds like something weird in Nikon View.
But the camera really can't apply any sharpening to a RAW file.
RAW files contain data before Bayer interpolation, and there is
no sharpening algorithm that works on that (would be a very bad
idea anyway)
2- are you the author of PhotoControl?
Yes I am... Do you use it?

Vtie
--
--
 

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