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10D.....a waste of money!

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AF in digital cameras is still maturing. I have seen different results at times from every digital camera I have used or owned.

The AF on the Canon 10D is at least as good as I have experienced it on other cameras and probably better.

Last night under extremely low light and uneven light the camera work consistently well time after time.

I have slides from my Canon F1 using ISO 800 film that were not better. I was using the cheapy 50mm 1.8 lens at f/4.5 and f/4.0 shooting mostly at 1/60 to 1/125s.

Relativily speaking from my experience the camera is great! I do not even expect it to be perfect nor mature. But I am a pioneer of technology and have never purchased a product in the early stages of adoption that did not have problems.

I truly believe every camera has its particular workflow that needs to be learned and used to maxmize the quality of the image captured.

Is it going to take full-size National Geographic like photos that were taken with expensive glass using medium or large format cameras...probably not.

But last night I was impressed and this is from someone who has been shooting and printing their own for over 20 years.

I FULLY expect that there will be a firmware upgrade to address something wrong in the camera...just like I fully expect there will always be service packs for computer operating systems, recall for automobiles and part failures on airplanes...anyone not expecting that is not awake in this imperfect quantum reality.

--
RichO :)
San Antonio, TX
http://www.equipu.com
http://www.pbase.com/richo/
'Life is a dance, Love is the music.'
 
From D30 to D60 to 10D was already more than 2 years! AF system with SLR system HAS already matured.
RichO said:
AF in digital cameras is still maturing. I have seen different
results at times from every digital camera I have used or owned.

The AF on the Canon 10D is at least as good as I have experienced
it on other cameras and probably better.

Last night under extremely low light and uneven light the camera
work consistently well time after time.

I have slides from my Canon F1 using ISO 800 film that were not
better. I was using the cheapy 50mm 1.8 lens at f/4.5 and f/4.0
shooting mostly at 1/60 to 1/125s.

Relativily speaking from my experience the camera is great! I do
not even expect it to be perfect nor mature. But I am a pioneer of
technology and have never purchased a product in the early stages
of adoption that did not have problems.

I truly believe every camera has its particular workflow that needs
to be learned and used to maxmize the quality of the image captured.

Is it going to take full-size National Geographic like photos that
were taken with expensive glass using medium or large format
cameras...probably not.

But last night I was impressed and this is from someone who has
been shooting and printing their own for over 20 years.

I FULLY expect that there will be a firmware upgrade to address
something wrong in the camera...just like I fully expect there will
always be service packs for computer operating systems, recall for
automobiles and part failures on airplanes...anyone not expecting
that is not awake in this imperfect quantum reality.

--
RichO :)
San Antonio, TX
http://www.equipu.com
http://www.pbase.com/richo/
'Life is a dance, Love is the music.'
Click to expand...
--
My dirty uploads: http://www3.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=43271

 
Jack A. Zucker said:
You're truly the minister of mis-information. READ MY LIPS:

How is expecting the focus to be as good as a Rebel G, "expecting
PRO GRADE quality in MANUFACTURE but paying for a CONSUMER GRADE
produced product" ?

Oh wait - There you are on TV saying that it's all an illusion....

--
http://www.jackzucker.com
Click to expand...
We're talking about two different things except I'm not trying to insult you. If you're taking it that way, I apologize. You're talking about a PERFORMANCE from ONE sample of a camera and proposing that all or the majority of the same model are defective based on your experince and maybe some of the others here in this forum. This forum ISN'T the whole market and represents a FRACTION of the units sold. To assume that because YOU got a bad unit that the majority of them MUST be defective also is ludicrous. And then to make things even juicier, you're comparing it to another camera... a film camera. It seems to me that, as far as AF is concerned, the digital cameras are behind their film-based counterparts in this area anyway. But what I'm TRYING to get through to you is that it should be EXPECTED that the 10D has more defective units because (1)it's a consumer grade camera not manufactured with the same process as a pro grade camera thus the difference in cost, (2) this is an INITIAL (version 1) release and the kinks (possibly the DIGIC processor) have to be addressed, and (3) as Adam-T pointed out, there's a HECK of a lot of them being bought. The problems are going to be magnified because there's large numbers of them being sold and it's high profile (at least here) for now. Again, if you wish to have Canon repair it, they'll be happy to do so. If you feel that Canon's QC has gone to the dogs, there's always other brands out there. Why not do something to rectify your quandry rather than just barking about it?

Sincerely,

Ayatoldyouso... Minister Of Misinformation. ;-)
 
I'm glad to see you like your new baby. You seem to have a better grasp of what's going on than many of these so-called expert authorities. I've come to the same conclusions as you about the camera and the single press was at the top of the list. I've been bad about second guessing the focus and found that just doing it once worked a lot better. Here's a pic back at ya...



Most likely, your example will be ignored as the "authorities" here disregard any positive posts about the 10D. Theirs was bad so they're ALL bad.
 
Pigasus said:
The 10D is a great camera. That's what makes it so frustrating
when so many of them are not performing up to standard.
Click to expand...
But then, by the same token, many MORE are! Like anything else you buy, you'll liable to get a bad one every now and then. I think the majority of them work fine and then ones which don't should be returned for exchange or refund or sent back to Canon to be repaired. There's your options. It's pretty simple. This is a quality camera for a great price but not ALL of them are perfect. You just have to deal with it.
 
RichO said:
AF in digital cameras is still maturing. I have seen different
results at times from every digital camera I have used or owned.

The AF on the Canon 10D is at least as good as I have experienced
it on other cameras and probably better.

Last night under extremely low light and uneven light the camera
work consistently well time after time.

I have slides from my Canon F1 using ISO 800 film that were not
better. I was using the cheapy 50mm 1.8 lens at f/4.5 and f/4.0
shooting mostly at 1/60 to 1/125s.

Relativily speaking from my experience the camera is great! I do
not even expect it to be perfect nor mature. But I am a pioneer of
technology and have never purchased a product in the early stages
of adoption that did not have problems.

I truly believe every camera has its particular workflow that needs
to be learned and used to maxmize the quality of the image captured.

Is it going to take full-size National Geographic like photos that
were taken with expensive glass using medium or large format
cameras...probably not.

But last night I was impressed and this is from someone who has
been shooting and printing their own for over 20 years.

I FULLY expect that there will be a firmware upgrade to address
something wrong in the camera...just like I fully expect there will
always be service packs for computer operating systems, recall for
automobiles and part failures on airplanes...anyone not expecting
that is not awake in this imperfect quantum reality.

--
RichO :)
San Antonio, TX
http://www.equipu.com
http://www.pbase.com/richo/
'Life is a dance, Love is the music.'
Click to expand...
 
I've said ALL along that NOT all the 10D's are bad. What I have said is that buying a 10D at this point in time IS a gamble, in regards to getting one that actually works like it's supposed to. I feel that buying a 10D should be a happy experience, without the stress of knowing that you may well end up with a dud that doesn't focus. So....the QC at Canon needs to be vastly improved, IMO, to account for this.
PearlRider said:
I'm glad to see you like your new baby. You seem to have a better
grasp of what's going on than many of these so-called expert
authorities. I've come to the same conclusions as you about the
camera and the single press was at the top of the list. I've been
bad about second guessing the focus and found that just doing it
once worked a lot better. Here's a pic back at ya...



Most likely, your example will be ignored as the "authorities" here
disregard any positive posts about the 10D. Theirs was bad so
they're ALL bad.
Click to expand...
 
I own many 2.8 and faster lenses.

Maybe you not hitting what you intend to focus...

My camera works perfect.
This was my first one :)
Mike Jones said:
Pete Gregar said:
or maybe you don't understand how the 10D AF points work.
Mike Jones said:
After my third 10D, I have definately come to the conclusion that
until Canon sort out the serious focus problems.....you should NOT
buy this camera. You have been warned!! My third 10D, each as bad
as the other, has been sent back. Stick with your D60 or 1D. I
expect much higher quality control from Canon, and right now with
their Digital line, it's VERY hit and miss.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Hi Everybody!

All modells of our Canon DSLR cameras have needed a visit to canon for fixing the back focusing problem. They were all the same. After the adjustement they are very ok.

Sampo
 
PearlRider said:
We're talking about two different things except I'm not trying to
insult you. If you're taking it that way, I apologize. You're
talking about a PERFORMANCE from ONE sample of a camera and
proposing that all or the majority of the same model are defective
based on your experince and maybe some of the others here in this
forum.
Click to expand...
I don't mean to be rude but I have stated many times that it was just my camera which was bad and I was not implying that the majority of cameras are bad. This is the kind of mis-information you are spreading. I'm not sure if you are deliberately obfuscating the point, not reading the full text of the thread or simply and deliberately being obnoxious.

Jaz

--
http://www.jackzucker.com
 
Mike Jones said:
I think I'll just wait for the 10DX! By the way, when I say out of
focus...I mean precisely that!! If the images were just soft, I
could run the images through USM.
Click to expand...
Exactly. As a photoshop and digital camera veteran (and software engineer and former pro photographer) I know the difference between soft and out of focus. The D60 images are soft and I routinely run them through edge sharpening and USM sharpening. Same with the D30.

My 10D could not autofocus, period. Why do folks feel the need to beat their chests insisting that others' problems are imagined?

Unbelievable...

--
http://www.jackzucker.com
 
Mike Jones said:
I've said ALL along that NOT all the 10D's are bad. What I have
said is that buying a 10D at this point in time IS a gamble, in
regards to getting one that actually works like it's supposed to. I
feel that buying a 10D should be a happy experience, without the
stress of knowing that you may well end up with a dud that doesn't
focus. So....the QC at Canon needs to be vastly improved, IMO, to
account for this.
Click to expand...
And the overall responses from you and Hugo, for the large part, have been largely focusing on the negatives and dismissing the positives responses as irrelevent. I didn't have any stress buying my camera and I did fully understand that I was taking somewhat of a gamble because this is the initial release of this camera and it's bound to have SOME glitches. I believe threads like this cause more stress than buying the camera itself would ever cause. I also understand that if any problems do surface, I have confidence that Canon will fix them. That's why I wouldn't get angry and moan about it. I'd do something about it. As for the QC, I've felt for a long time that this is going downhill for MOST product manufacturers due to the cost cutting measures I've mentioned MANY times in this thread. In order to compete and still maintain the same profits, something's gotta give. If all I have to worry about with my new camera is sending it back to get a sensor scrubbing and some minor tweaks, I'm willing to do that. I feel the camera is otherwise well built and will serve my uses sufficiently. Let's start USING the 10D instead of testing it to pieces.
 
Jack A. Zucker said:
I don't mean to be rude but I have stated many times that it was
just my camera which was bad and I was not implying that the
majority of cameras are bad. This is the kind of mis-information
you are spreading. I'm not sure if you are deliberately obfuscating
the point, not reading the full text of the thread or simply and
deliberately being obnoxious.

Jaz

--
http://www.jackzucker.com
Click to expand...
Here's what you said and it doesn't appear you're limiting the problem to YOUR particular camera...

"The fact is that many of the problematic 10D cameras do not focus as well as the $150 Rebel G."

If anyone is being obnoxious, it's you, sir. You're obviously enamored of this "Minister of Information" tag you're handing out.
 
PearlRider said:
Here's what you said and it doesn't appear you're limiting the
problem to YOUR particular camera...
"The fact is that many of the problematic 10D cameras do not focus
as well as the $150 Rebel G."
If anyone is being obnoxious, it's you, sir. You're obviously
enamored of this "Minister of Information" tag you're handing out.
Click to expand...
The phrase "Many of the problematic 10D cameras" does not infer that "the majority" of 10D cameras are defective.

If you've read the forum for more than a few minutes, you obviously know that there is more than one defective camera out there. It means nothing more and nothing less. Quit beating your chest.

FACT: The majority of 10D cameras appear to be fine.
FACT: There are some 10D cameras that are defective.

I've stated dozens of times that I don't know the percentage of good vs bad and it's very likely that the bad ones are a teeny, teeny percentage.

How can you disagree with any of that?
--
http://www.jackzucker.com
 
Jack A. Zucker said:
Exactly. As a photoshop and digital camera veteran (and software
engineer and former pro photographer) I know the difference between
soft and out of focus. The D60 images are soft and I routinely run
them through edge sharpening and USM sharpening. Same with the D30.

My 10D could not autofocus, period. Why do folks feel the need to
beat their chests insisting that others' problems are imagined?

Unbelievable...

--
http://www.jackzucker.com
Click to expand...
When someone says that HE or SHE isn't having a problem with the 10D he or she owns, you take it as assault on YOUR claim. YOU are having a problem with your 10D, the other poster isn't. Why can't they say their camera is performing adequately without bothering you? It's just a statement, right?

Why do folks feel the need to beat their chests insisting that no one should say that they're not having a problem with the 10D?
 
Jack A. Zucker said:
The phrase "Many of the problematic 10D cameras" does not infer
that "the majority" of 10D cameras are defective.

If you've read the forum for more than a few minutes, you obviously
know that there is more than one defective camera out there. It
means nothing more and nothing less. Quit beating your chest.

FACT: The majority of 10D cameras appear to be fine.
FACT: There are some 10D cameras that are defective.

I've stated dozens of times that I don't know the percentage of
good vs bad and it's very likely that the bad ones are a teeny,
teeny percentage.

How can you disagree with any of that?
--
http://www.jackzucker.com
Click to expand...
You seem to be in support of this thread's title "Canon 10D... Waste of money". Why get so angry just because someone confirms what you've said? Sure there are bad units and good units. That's true in ANY mass-produced item you buy these days. It just seems like the people with the bad units wish to believe they're in the majority though. You seem to get upset whenever someone mentions their 10D is performing well. It's almost as if you're taking it as a personal affront to your claim that your 10D was defective. It's just a valid statement as yours. What have you done about your defective unit? Have you returned it? Have you sent in for repair?
 
PearlRider said:
Jack A. Zucker said:
The phrase "Many of the problematic 10D cameras" does not infer
that "the majority" of 10D cameras are defective.

If you've read the forum for more than a few minutes, you obviously
know that there is more than one defective camera out there. It
means nothing more and nothing less. Quit beating your chest.

FACT: The majority of 10D cameras appear to be fine.
FACT: There are some 10D cameras that are defective.

I've stated dozens of times that I don't know the percentage of
good vs bad and it's very likely that the bad ones are a teeny,
teeny percentage.

How can you disagree with any of that?
--
http://www.jackzucker.com
Click to expand...
You seem to be in support of this thread's title "Canon 10D...
Waste of money".
Click to expand...
Actually, I disagree with the thread's title but personally, I would not buy a 10D at the moment until:

1) Canon acknowledges the problem
2) Canon fixes the problem
The Raven said:
Why get so angry just because someone confirms
what you've said?
Click to expand...
I wasn't angry. I was incredulous the way you were mis-quoting me though! :-)
The Raven said:
Sure there are bad units and good units. That's
true in ANY mass-produced item you buy these days.
Click to expand...
No - I'm a software engineer and the company I work for manufactures electronic components. Sure there are periodic failures due to random parts which are not up to spec but the problem with the 10D seems to be a mis-calibration which means they have a defect in their manufacturing process. That in itself is not so bad but in my opinion, they do a disservice to their customers by not commenting on this issue in some way...
The Raven said:
It just seems
like the people with the bad units wish to believe they're in the
majority though.
Click to expand...
Again, you extrapolate information based on questionable data. Show me the evidence for your conclusion.
The Raven said:
You seem to get upset whenever someone mentions
their 10D is performing well.
Click to expand...
I can see it's not worthwhile discussing this because you have some sort of bias against the truth. Again, show me the data you base this opinion on...
The Raven said:
What have you done about your
defective unit? Have you returned it? Have you sent in for repair?
Click to expand...
I tried to exchange it, was told there would be a 2 month delay and I returned it for a refund. At this point, I'm going to wait until the next model comes out and pick up a 10D used, assuming Canon acknowledges the issue.

--
http://www.jackzucker.com
 
Mike Jones said:
After my third 10D, I have definately come to the conclusion that
until Canon sort out the serious focus problems...
Click to expand...
If you look at his posting history, 6 days ago, he was asking about the features of Photoshop Elements. If he had a 10D, he'd be able to see the program for himself.

Also, do you think he then saved up his temper until he had the 3rd 10D (somehow in less than 6 days) and then finally blew? Somehow I think we'd have heard his belly-aching before the 3rd camera was in his hands.

If I were a betting man, I'd bet that he has a D60 for sure, but I doubt he's ever owned even one. I'd even bet he handled a 10D in a camera store (as he said in one of his posts). We have no post-purchase postings, and we have no samples. He didn't ask for help, but just declared the 10D a "waste."

Sounds like another angry D60 owner who would love the 10D to be a waste of money because he waited until the bottom dropped out of the D60 prices to sell his and upgrade for free.

At any rate, for the vast majority of us with good 10D's, our pictures are our proof that Canon came through for us. Don't think we have to prove anything to Mr. Jones, either.

--
BryanS
 
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