for peace pic

I cant stop wondering what will have happen if the United states had put some of its resources going to the WAR into solving the Palestinian Israeli conflict in a peace full way.

How will the Victory look like, what will come after. I believed peace begins in the minds of people, can you imaging how this war will inflict the Muslim World. I believe not.

jaus

How long has the US and the world struggled with that one? Unfortunately, I don't think that is going to happen, but I don't want to change this to a religious discussion.

I can only hope that tyrants like Saddam will get the message that their behavior will no longer be allowed to continue on, and that the rest of the world will realize that potentially this whole mission has a higher calling than simply that the US wants to be a "bully" or has some financial incentive for doing what is being done.

I would do anything to protect my little girl from individuals such as those who are being encountered in Iraq (Saddam as the role model). If that meant putting me at risk, then there would not even be a second thought about it.

As cold and callous as some may believe that the US is in this war, each time I see the pain and suffering inflicted upon the women and children in Iraq, their fearful faces and their cold, cruel deaths (in some situations) and as a regular part of the Saddam regime's practice, the more incensed I become at those who see this intervention as being purely self-serving to the US. I, for one, don't believe that our mission is anything other than what President Bush has said. Certainly, there may be others with ulterior motives (and even some of the countries who have not supported this effort are now voicing their concerns about their own financial gains in rebuilding Iraq), but I honestly believe that heart felt concern and personal values are involved, as well. If you don’t realize this, then you don’t know President Bush.

There is a rush to judge the US and our coalition allies in all of this. And many of the arguments I've heard are the same ones that the US would be taking if we waited another 12 years to end this thing and started getting flack with regard to our isolationism. Perhaps that is what the rest of the world wants? I think not.

The only thing that irritates me is the constant griping about the US and its "cowboy" approach to all of this. When I hear that, I realize that there really is nothing that can be done to change that perspective in some minds. And if nothing can get settled among "friends" in these forums, how do we think we can change some deep-seated dogma in other countries. We just must act when there is inhumanity in the world. Charging that the US coalition effort is to do more than this, in my opinion, is simply a case of ignorance. Perhaps we can change those sitting on the fence with regard to this subject, but they aren't really reading this, are they?

Don't know about you, but I, for one, am beginning to see any contributions to this discussion as a real waste of my valuable time. I'm not going to change anyone's thinking on this, but I will guarantee you that I will also not turn a blind eye to inhumanity in my neighborhood and just think that it will go away.

Tom

jaus said:

I cant stop wondering what will have happen if the United states
had put some of its resources going to the WAR into solving the
Palestinian Israeli conflict in a peace full way.
How will the Victory look like, what will come after. I believed
peace begins in the minds of people, can you imaging how this war
will inflict the Muslim World. I believe not.

jaus

Click to expand...

--

'Knowledge that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not really good.' --Sun Tzu

David M. said:

what they are all missing out on.....poor public school systems,
disgraceful public health care, and rampant unemployment, and no
money in the budget for either, but BILLIONS in the budget for war.

Click to expand...

Hmmmmm ...... I've heard that things were tough in Alaska. Have you considered moving back to the lower 48?
Regards
Karl
Karl H. Timmerman M.A.,J.D.
http://www.karltimmerman.com

Actually, I was'nt referring to myself with those comments. Alaska is suffering along with the rest of the country, but it's doing much better. I'm very well employed, we have among the top rated schools and grade point averages, and overall the highest average incomes. On the other hand, I keep hearing about the lay-off's and unemployment and all the other ills of the lower 48. As far as the dilapidated condition of public schools go down there, I know that first hand, because I went to several inner city schools as a youngster and saw myself the disgrace that they are.

Karl H. Timmerman M.A.J.D. said:

David M. said:

what they are all missing out on.....poor public school systems,
disgraceful public health care, and rampant unemployment, and no
money in the budget for either, but BILLIONS in the budget for war.

Click to expand...

Hmmmmm ...... I've heard that things were tough in Alaska. Have
you considered moving back to the lower 48?
Regards
Karl
Karl H. Timmerman M.A.,J.D.
http://www.karltimmerman.com

Click to expand...

--
(DC's)/ Oly E20, Kodak DC4800's, (DV)/ Canon GL1, ZR25,(35mm)/ Minolta HTsi+
PBase supporter

"What have you done, David?"> >

I've voted. However, in the last election, it did'nt seem to matter for some reason. A particular southern state pulled a swift one and the other guy got elected anyway. Was it corruption, tainted election, good old bot syndrome? You tell me. Kind of funny that the other guy's bro happens to be the guv of that particular southern state to boot. Hmmmm.

Due to the debacle and game that was Vietnam, I grew up without a father, and watched my mother struggle raising me alone for years (she never re-married). I still wonder quite often what it was he was supposed to have died for. Could you please tell me Tom?

I also by the way did not articulate my views from Sean Penn. I have not even LISTENED to any of the Hollywood banter. I care not for extreme left or right. I prefer to listen to logic, reason and common sense. I have developed my views from personal loss, and the fact that the reasons behind why we are fighting this war just seem to ring hollow in my mind no matter how much I try to see any logic in it.....especially considering the fact that Saddam used to be our buddy too at one time and that when he gassed the Kurds among other atrocities we at the time looked the other way because he was "on our side" due to his little war with Iran, and his oil. Convenient that he's such a bad guy now, is'nt it?

Tom Stovall said:

Saddam is the savior of the Iraqui people. He is a loving and
concerned leaders who enjoys 100 percent of the respect and the
votes that he received in the last "election."

(Let's try to forget about that little lynching incident yesterday
of the woman who waved to the coalition fighters.)

Things are just terrible in the US, aren't they? The interesting
thing about the US system is that you can try to do something about
all of our weaknesses, if you would like. What have you done,
David?

Tom

David M. said:

Karl H. Timmerman M.A.J.D. said:

jaus, you strike me as an honorable person trying to make sense of
the nonsensical. War is immoral but is "justifiable" to preserve
life. Would you go to "war" to save the millions killed by the
Nazies? Would you go to war save the millions killed by Pol Pot?
Would you go to war to save the millions killed by Stalin? Would
you go to war to save the thousands killed in the Balkins? Would
you go to war to save the thousands killed in Ruwanda? Is it the
number of innocents killed that trigger a war? Is one innocent
life worth going to war over? If not, how many does it take?
Where were the protesters when Sadam murdered 5,000 Kurds? Where
were the protesters when the French Peace Keepers jumped into their
trucks and drove away while 800,000 Ruwandan folks were murdered?
Where were the French Peace Keepers, after setting up "Safe Zones"
in the Balkins and thereafter walking away while thousands were
slaughtered? Karl
Karl H. Timmerman M.A.,J.D.
http://www.karltimmerman.com

Click to expand...

--
(DC's)/ Oly E20, Kodak DC4800's, (DV)/ Canon GL1, ZR25,(35mm)/
Minolta HTsi+
PBase supporter

Click to expand...

--
'Knowledge that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not
really good.' --Sun Tzu

Click to expand...

--
(DC's)/ Oly E20, Kodak DC4800's, (DV)/ Canon GL1, ZR25,(35mm)/ Minolta HTsi+
PBase supporter

Tom Stovall said:

The only thing that irritates me is the constant griping about the
US and its "cowboy" approach to all of this. When I hear that, I
realize that there really is nothing that can be done to change
that perspective in some minds. And if nothing can get settled
among "friends" in these forums, how do we think we can change some
deep-seated dogma in other countries.

Click to expand...

Now people all over the world know Mr. Bush and his defense secretary are not only lousty old Cowboy but also a couple of murders to Iraqis......

citing american reports words " no flower ,no food to welcome USA .UK from Iraqis" ...but bullets !!!!!!!!..........

A dirty war will never win...God bless Iraqis.... now people all over the world support Iraq....they are not fighting for saddam but for their freedom ..for their country....Although aggressors always have lots of excuses...but unfortunately ,none of those are true.........

actually . USA have lost this war already........what they are doing is to conceal their lies.......but it is too late......

although i do understand americans are supporting your soliders,,,but they will never be heros in the human history.....

a little bit offensive....just a contribution for those innocent Iraqis.......

I'm surprised, David. If you aren't listening to the Hollywood intelligentsia, you certainly appear to be channeling the same "spirit." Maybe not Sean Penn, but as my little 3 year old girl calls them, the "Ditsy Chicks" seem to share your depth of understanding, contempt for authority, and perspective.

As far as "what the soldiers died for in Viet Nam," it is called "values." Do you understand that term? I am certainly grateful for what your father did, and I would welcome that Wang family member into my "foxhole" in times of distress. He IS a true hero in my mind, along with the family and friends that I lost there, as well. I doubt your father saw the "game" in the war that you do. You truly sadden me! Honor your father for what he tried to do in the name of humanity and try to grow up.

Yes, it is amazing that those "good old boys" in Florida (have you even been to Florida, David?) and those "good old boys" in the Supreme Court, were able to pull one over on us, isn't it? What fools we are in the US, allowing ourselves to be duped into all of this.

You tire me David. I feel a certain amount of revulsion for individuals who dishonor family, country, and friends. In my mind, you have just shown me what you are made of. Perhaps you will reflect on this, but then, I'm just a "good ol' boy," so what do I know of honor, respect, concern for those other than myself, and values?

David M. said:

"What have you done, David?"> >

I've voted. However, in the last election, it did'nt seem to
matter for some reason. A particular southern state pulled a swift
one and the other guy got elected anyway. Was it corruption,
tainted election, good old bot syndrome? You tell me. Kind of
funny that the other guy's bro happens to be the guv of that
particular southern state to boot. Hmmmm.
Due to the debacle and game that was Vietnam, I grew up without a
father, and watched my mother struggle raising me alone for years
(she never re-married). I still wonder quite often what it was he
was supposed to have died for. Could you please tell me Tom?
I also by the way did not articulate my views from Sean Penn. I
have not even LISTENED to any of the Hollywood banter. I care not
for extreme left or right. I prefer to listen to logic, reason and
common sense. I have developed my views from personal loss, and
the fact that the reasons behind why we are fighting this war just
seem to ring hollow in my mind no matter how much I try to see any
logic in it.....especially considering the fact that Saddam used to
be our buddy too at one time and that when he gassed the Kurds
among other atrocities we at the time looked the other way because
he was "on our side" due to his little war with Iran, and his oil.
Convenient that he's such a bad guy now, is'nt it?

Click to expand...

Tom, it's simply amazing to me the shallow depth of your understanding, and the way you assume everything about a person.

Yes, I've been to Florida. Imagine that. Does that surprise you? Do you have any more questions for me that you'd like to use to negate my comments with?

On top of that, I saw FIRST HAND again while living in Miami the rampant corruption that persists in that state. I was even a victim of such while there (I won't go into extreme detail, but suffice it to say it was political good old boy syndrome that excluded me from the running for a certain position which a little game was played in order to keep me out of....I could have esaily sued, but did'nt, and was even offered a formal apology by the principal of my school at the time, who even ADMITTED to such corruption yet claimed she was powerless to do anything about). Just suffice it to say again it's VERY good old boy, very corrupt, and very money-centric. Is it still that way? I don't know. Is the entire state that way? I doubt it. But after the last election it brought back some VERY distsateful memories that only supported my own experiences there.

I do thank you by the way for your comments on my father......but judging by the letters I have read that he was sending to my mother before he was killed, I get the distinct impression that he truly DID'NT know why he was there, and was furthermore becoming quite disillusioned by the games that were being played, the questionable tactics, as well as all the needless killing. He wanted out in other words. He got his out all right. Enough said about that. I do not dishonor my father, I just wish he were still alive, I just wish he could have seen me grow up and I wish I could have grown up with him. Vietnam was a political farce and money engine for the Washington power brokers who decided to fight that so-called war for political and corporate gain, while 60,000 of our men died and many more came back crippled. By questioning the reasons for it all, how am I dishonoring him or the thousands of others who sacrificed there? Do you have a dad Tom? Go give him a hug today....lucky for you that you can do that while sitting there smugly, accusing me of dishonor.

Tom, your hollowness and shallowness tires me as well. You have no idea of what you talk about, assume everything about a person, and have an arrogance that amazes me. You are making no points here other than insulting accusations and I wish you'd just go the hell away and talk to someone else who will listen to your rude and inciteful babble.

Tom Stovall said:

As far as "what the soldiers died for in Viet Nam," it is called
"values." Do you understand that term? I am certainly grateful
for what your father did, and I would welcome that Wang family
member into my "foxhole" in times of distress. He IS a true hero
in my mind, along with the family and friends that I lost there, as
well. I doubt your father saw the "game" in the war that you do.
You truly sadden me! Honor your father for what he tried to do in
the name of humanity and try to grow up.

Yes, it is amazing that those "good old boys" in Florida (have you
even been to Florida, David?) and those "good old boys" in the
Supreme Court, were able to pull one over on us, isn't it? What
fools we are in the US, allowing ourselves to be duped into all of
this.

You tire me David. I feel a certain amount of revulsion for
individuals who dishonor family, country, and friends. In my mind,
you have just shown me what you are made of. Perhaps you will
reflect on this, but then, I'm just a "good ol' boy," so what do I
know of honor, respect, concern for those other than myself, and
values?

David M. said:

"What have you done, David?"> >

I've voted. However, in the last election, it did'nt seem to
matter for some reason. A particular southern state pulled a swift
one and the other guy got elected anyway. Was it corruption,
tainted election, good old bot syndrome? You tell me. Kind of
funny that the other guy's bro happens to be the guv of that
particular southern state to boot. Hmmmm.
Due to the debacle and game that was Vietnam, I grew up without a
father, and watched my mother struggle raising me alone for years
(she never re-married). I still wonder quite often what it was he
was supposed to have died for. Could you please tell me Tom?
I also by the way did not articulate my views from Sean Penn. I
have not even LISTENED to any of the Hollywood banter. I care not
for extreme left or right. I prefer to listen to logic, reason and
common sense. I have developed my views from personal loss, and
the fact that the reasons behind why we are fighting this war just
seem to ring hollow in my mind no matter how much I try to see any
logic in it.....especially considering the fact that Saddam used to
be our buddy too at one time and that when he gassed the Kurds
among other atrocities we at the time looked the other way because
he was "on our side" due to his little war with Iran, and his oil.
Convenient that he's such a bad guy now, is'nt it?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
(DC's)/ Oly E20, Kodak DC4800's, (DV)/ Canon GL1, ZR25,(35mm)/ Minolta HTsi+
PBase supporter

Thanks again, David for your insightful and personal attack on me. I can't understand how you could have lost an election with the obvious people skills and intellect you have exhibited. Bitterness is very difficult for some people to control, isn't it? Your rambling on about an election you lost sort of shows me what is going on with you. Have you sought any help with overcoming that personal, devastating loss?

As far as your having ever been to Florida, when you talk about the "good old boys" down there, it amazes me. Do you even know where the vast majority of the population is from in Florida?

Good bye, and best wishes in your next elected position. Hopefully you will find greater success in the exact opposite side of the country in which you first began...but honestly, I sort of doubt it.

By the way, I've always wanted to visit Alaska. It is one of only three states in the US that I haven't visited. I've had friends who visited on cruises etc., but I'm the kind of "good ol' boy" who likes to get on the ground and closer to nature. Perhaps you can link us to some photographs you've made and at least I may be able to appreciate you in that sense.

Honesty, try to be a bit more understanding and less inflammatory in your remarks. It makes your other comments have much less meaning when you show such lack of control. I'm really a bit concerned about you.

Sincerely,
Tom

--

'Knowledge that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not really good.' --Sun Tzu

We're not as bad as the Nazis and Denmark didn't have any problem with them. So get lost.

Zidar
Alaska
--
It's not about stuff.
http://www.pbase.com/zidar

Insightful and persoanl attack? What's the matter Tom, you can dish it out but can't take it? Whaa. You attacked me first by making foolish assumptions about my personal experiences, then went on to say I dishonor my father, then went further to say you are tired of me. That's all good for you to say, but I'm "personally attacking" you if I sling your BS right back at you. Whaa.

As far as my being bitter, maybe I am in some small ways. I try not to be. There are men and women who have been through far, far worse than myself. So I do try to not be overly negative about my life. But I deal with what I have, and have no fear of discussing it or sharing my viewpoints on it and life in general. Is that being bitter? Should I just say, OK Tom, you are right, thank you for enlightening me, when I still disagree? Should I not express my views? Why is that rambling Tom, and your babble is'nt? Boy, you have one heck of a one sided style of conversation. Quite a skill.

I am not inflammatory or confrontational in my remarks any more than you have been. You have accused me of wrongful things, assumed things about me which you have been shown were wrong, and yet you still see it as me attacking you. I'm a bit concerned about you as well. You need to see your own actions and words for what they are before you accuse others of the same things Tom.

As far as Florida goes, perhaps my experience was an isolated incident, though I doubt it. I was basically passed over for a position that was given instead to someone less qualified, but who was politically connected by having a powerful family. Uh oh, I'm rambling again. I won't explain any more about it since I'm so "bitter". Being that I am prevented from doing so, it oipens the door for you to negate me even easier does'nt it? That's ok Tom, go right ahead.....I have nothing to prove, and am rather done with this so-called convewrsation anyway.

You really should look into the art of debate, and see how it's done without inciteful, inflammatory and assuming accusations and persoanl attacks. And if you are'nt capable of that, then at least take your own medicine back without crying foul.

That said, I'm donme with this convo, as it seems you can't debate me out of personal experience of your own (ever live in Florida Tom? Been to war Tom? Hmmm?). I will now switch to topics of photography, as you kindlt suggested. Here's some pics of Alaska Tom. Hope you enjoy and hope you do get the chance to see this state someday.
http://www.pbase.com/gargoyle13/kodak_dc-4800_pics&page=all
Thanks.

Tom Stovall said:

Thanks again, David for your insightful and personal attack on me.
I can't understand how you could have lost an election with the
obvious people skills and intellect you have exhibited. Bitterness
is very difficult for some people to control, isn't it? Your
rambling on about an election you lost sort of shows me what is
going on with you. Have you sought any help with overcoming that
personal, devastating loss?

As far as your having ever been to Florida, when you talk about the
"good old boys" down there, it amazes me. Do you even know where
the vast majority of the population is from in Florida?

Good bye, and best wishes in your next elected position. Hopefully
you will find greater success in the exact opposite side of the
country in which you first began...but honestly, I sort of doubt it.

By the way, I've always wanted to visit Alaska. It is one of only
three states in the US that I haven't visited. I've had friends
who visited on cruises etc., but I'm the kind of "good ol' boy" who
likes to get on the ground and closer to nature. Perhaps you can
link us to some photographs you've made and at least I may be able
to appreciate you in that sense.

Honesty, try to be a bit more understanding and less inflammatory
in your remarks. It makes your other comments have much less
meaning when you show such lack of control. I'm really a bit
concerned about you.

Sincerely,
Tom

--
'Knowledge that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not
really good.' --Sun Tzu

Click to expand...

--
(DC's)/ Oly E20, Kodak DC4800's, (DV)/ Canon GL1, ZR25,(35mm)/ Minolta HTsi+
PBase supporter

Huh?

zidar said:

We're not as bad as the Nazis and Denmark didn't have any problem
with them. So get lost.

Zidar
Alaska
--
It's not about stuff.
http://www.pbase.com/zidar

Click to expand...

--
(DC's)/ Oly E20, Kodak DC4800's, (DV)/ Canon GL1, ZR25,(35mm)/ Minolta HTsi+
PBase supporter

David M. said:

Tom Stovall said:

Thanks again, David for your insightful and personal attack on me.
I can't understand how you could have lost an election with the
obvious people skills and intellect you have exhibited. Bitterness
is very difficult for some people to control, isn't it? Your
rambling on about an election you lost sort of shows me what is
going on with you. Have you sought any help with overcoming that
personal, devastating loss?

As far as your having ever been to Florida, when you talk about the
"good old boys" down there, it amazes me. Do you even know where
the vast majority of the population is from in Florida?

Good bye, and best wishes in your next elected position. Hopefully
you will find greater success in the exact opposite side of the
country in which you first began...but honestly, I sort of doubt it.

By the way, I've always wanted to visit Alaska. It is one of only
three states in the US that I haven't visited. I've had friends
who visited on cruises etc., but I'm the kind of "good ol' boy" who
likes to get on the ground and closer to nature. Perhaps you can
link us to some photographs you've made and at least I may be able
to appreciate you in that sense.

Honesty, try to be a bit more understanding and less inflammatory
in your remarks. It makes your other comments have much less
meaning when you show such lack of control. I'm really a bit
concerned about you.

Sincerely,
Tom

--
'Knowledge that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not
really good.' --Sun Tzu

Click to expand...

--
(DC's)/ Oly E20, Kodak DC4800's, (DV)/ Canon GL1, ZR25,(35mm)/
Minolta HTsi+
PBase supporter

Click to expand...

--

'Knowledge that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not really good.' --Sun Tzu

Tom Stovall said:

Thanks again, David for your insightful and personal attack on me.

Click to expand...

.. ..

Strategist said:

Honesty, try to be a bit more understanding and less inflammatory
in your remarks. It makes your other comments have much less
meaning when you show such lack of control. I'm really a bit
concerned about you.

Sincerely,
Tom

Click to expand...

Talking about inflammatory:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1018&message=4700516

Mork

Thank you Tom, and thank you for guiding the conversation to some semblance of civility. The favor shall be repaid in kind.
Take care.

D P O'neil said:

... This invasion is nothing more than schoolyard bullying. America
being the "biggest" bully gets to do pretty much what it wants...
--Dennis

Click to expand...

The same way America and England bullied Hitler out of France and most of the rest of Europe?

--

Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read...

Totally irrelevant comparison.

Hitler attempted to take control of all of Europe, Africa, and even broke it's non-aggression pact with Stalin (who, by the way, deserves more credit for defeating the Third Reich than America ever should get).

Saddam on the other hand merely attempted to take back a territory originally stolen away from Iraq to begin with by the British after WW1 (Kuwait). And, to top the whole farce off, we actually SUPPORTED him in his war with Iran.

The Third Reich was also a MAJOR military force to be reckoned with. A far cry from the state of military might Iraq is and has been in.
Nothing to compare to WW2 with. Nothing whatsoever.

Tuba Paul said:

Tuba Paul said:

... This invasion is nothing more than schoolyard bullying. America
being the "biggest" bully gets to do pretty much what it wants...
--Dennis

Click to expand...

The same way America and England bullied Hitler out of France and
most of the rest of Europe?

--
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog,
it's too dark to read...

Click to expand...

--
(DC's)/ Oly E20, Kodak DC4800's, (DV)/ Canon GL1, ZR25,(35mm)/ Minolta HTsi+
PBase supporter

Seems to me the Anti-Liberation faction are just a bunch of racist (only white people from the West should have any personal freedoms), opportunistic (Chirac's "we are against the removal of Saddam, but we damn sure demand to direct the rebuilding afterward!!!"), and "logically impared" (too many examples to cite) sheep that aren't FOR anything besides their own downy comfort at someone else's expense.

But in any case, they'll complain and benefit from the results, however begrudgingly. But then the freed Iraqis will ask pointed questions at their adversaries in the Anti-Liberation group and I'm sure they'll find SOME logially circuitious way to explain how it was actually THEIR sacrifice that enabled a honorable people to once again be in control their lives and how the it was actually the dark and sinister avarice of the "...gun toting killers of the American, British and Australian armies..." that in fact enslaved them to begin with.

Hey, and I thought the "winners wrote the histories!"

What do the Anti-Liberation groups fear the most? That the Coalition's members may gain another grateful ally in the Middle East like Kuwait. They fear that they'll be shown the hypocrasy they've embraced. They fear that humanity really hasn't evolved into a species that can ALWAYS resolve contention with negotiation. Some fear that their Gaulist ambitions will be revealed for the ludicrous aspirations they are. Still others fear that Bush may be reelected. And finally, they just fear LOSING again.

Liberation? LOL!!!

Where were our "liberating" ideals when we BACKED Saddam in his war with Iran? When we equipped his armies, sold him warplanes, and the raw materials for chemical weapons? Where were our liberating ideals when he was more than happy to sell us cheap oil?
Give me a break. Please. It's just too much.

Casey C said:

Seems to me the Anti-Liberation faction are just a bunch of racist
(only white people from the West should have any personal
freedoms), opportunistic (Chirac's "we are against the removal of
Saddam, but we damn sure demand to direct the rebuilding
afterward!!!"), and "logically impared" (too many examples to cite)
sheep that aren't FOR anything besides their own downy comfort at
someone else's expense.

But in any case, they'll complain and benefit from the results,
however begrudgingly. But then the freed Iraqis will ask pointed
questions at their adversaries in the Anti-Liberation group and I'm
sure they'll find SOME logially circuitious way to explain how it
was actually THEIR sacrifice that enabled a honorable people to
once again be in control their lives and how the it was actually
the dark and sinister avarice of the "...gun toting killers of the
American, British and Australian armies..." that in fact enslaved
them to begin with.

Hey, and I thought the "winners wrote the histories!"

What do the Anti-Liberation groups fear the most? That the
Coalition's members may gain another grateful ally in the Middle
East like Kuwait. They fear that they'll be shown the hypocrasy
they've embraced. They fear that humanity really hasn't evolved
into a species that can ALWAYS resolve contention with negotiation.
Some fear that their Gaulist ambitions will be revealed for the
ludicrous aspirations they are. Still others fear that Bush may be
reelected. And finally, they just fear LOSING again.

Click to expand...

--
(DC's)/ Oly E20, Kodak DC4800's, (DV)/ Canon GL1, ZR25,(35mm)/ Minolta HTsi+
PBase supporter

I suppose the fact that the Bath party and the **** party both being national socialist with an equal view on human rights is also irrelevant?

P.S. The Russian winter did more to stall Hitler than Stalin did.

David M. said:

Tuba Paul said:

David M. said:

... This invasion is nothing more than schoolyard bullying. America
being the "biggest" bully gets to do pretty much what it wants...
--Dennis

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The same way America and England bullied Hitler out of France and
most of the rest of Europe?

--
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog,
it's too dark to read...

Click to expand...

--
(DC's)/ Oly E20, Kodak DC4800's, (DV)/ Canon GL1, ZR25,(35mm)/
Minolta HTsi+
PBase supporter

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--

Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read...