Shame on Olympus

This might be a stupid question - I am in no way knowledgeable in this area.

But could it be Olympus does not issue downloadable updates because the camera is not setup to be seen by the computer as a drive?

A recent victim of SDS -

Pam
 
This might be a stupid question - I am in no way knowledgeable in
this area.
But could it be Olympus does not issue downloadable updates because
the camera is not setup to be seen by the computer as a drive?

A recent victim of SDS -

Pam
The newer Olympus cameras, from the C-3040Z onwards, are seen by the computer as a removable drive. But this has nothing to do with the firmware upgrades.

My son has a Nikon Coolpix 880 (he thought that it was "cool", and it is a nice little camera), which is also from before the removable drive functionality era, and you just upgrade the firmware by plugging it into the USB port and running a program freely available from Nikon.

Some cameras require that you put the firmware upgrade on a memory card first - but no matter, it is still a simple exercise.

IMHO Olympus is just slack !!!
 
This might be a stupid question - I am in no way knowledgeable in
this area.
But could it be Olympus does not issue downloadable updates because
the camera is not setup to be seen by the computer as a drive?

A recent victim of SDS -

Pam
The newer Olympus cameras, from the C-3040Z onwards, are seen by
the computer as a removable drive. But this has nothing to do with
the firmware upgrades.

My son has a Nikon Coolpix 880 (he thought that it was "cool", and
it is a nice little camera), which is also from before the
removable drive functionality era, and you just upgrade the
firmware by plugging it into the USB port and running a program
freely available from Nikon.

Some cameras require that you put the firmware upgrade on a memory
card first - but no matter, it is still a simple exercise.

IMHO Olympus is just slack !!!
 
I own a C5050Z which I purchased after a lot of research. It is an excellent camera. My only complaint is the purple fringing and the lens bumping into the lens cap when you forget to take it off.

I belong to a very popular photo forum - DPreview. Lately, in the forum devoted to the Olympus cameras, there is a thread decrying the fact that Olympus does not offer online updates of the firmware. Who wants to ship your camera off and wait several weeks, plus have to pay shipping when every other digicam on the market offers this service online. I thought you should be aware that this issue is causing many negative comments about your company. As this forum is read by potential buyers, it could cause them to choose another brand.

This is the address of the thread although I don't know if you can access it. You may have to a member. The title of the thread is "Shame on Olympus." This being read by thousands of people.

http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_section/cpg_productquestions.asp?s=12&ftype=11&val=1&category=Filmless_Digital_Cameras

Does Olympus have any plans to correct this oversight?

I am going to post a copy of this message to the thread as well as you reply.

Thanks,

Karen
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm given great pause at even
considering another Olympus brand camera when I finally make the
move past my Uzi/Ezi. (Unless maybe I could find a like-new E-10
for $400) :-)

The primary reason is that they obviously knew that a good number
of the early Uzi run units had a problem with the power board that
induces SDS. IMHO, every camera with that revision of power board
is simply a ticking time bomb, and rather than acknowledge the
defect, they've publicly kept quiet about it hoping a bunch of
cameras will be out of warranty when the bomb finally goes off.

That's not the way I like to see the companies I do business with
operate -- especially for high ticket items.

A few other reasons I may switch camps:

Firmware "hard coded". Canon and Minolta have released
user-installable firmware upgrades that have significantly improved
the operation of their cameras, and at no cost. I wouldn't even
mind paying for an upgrade if it didn't cost me a $294 "minimum
repair cost".

The stupid Olympus panorama "feature". We all know you can do
panos without it, or hack up a card to enable the thing -- that's
not the point. It's that they sell/market it as a feature of the
"special" SM/XD cards when the feature is really in the camera's
firmware and it's disabled unless you give in to their
"blackmail" to unlock the feature. As a consumer I find that
disingenuous and insulting behavior.

So... am I alone? And does Olympus care? I don't think they do.
I think as long as they're moving product off the shelf today, they
could care less about building good faith and brand loyalty for
long term sales tomorrow.
 
I'll also send one in my own words!

Olympus revises the firmware anyway. All that they need to do is to make it available to their users.
 
I'm in the embedded computing industry. From my point of view, a digicam is just one example of an embedded computer. Things are not quite as simple as you indicate. Between production run small changes will often be made. Most commonly these changes are because a different supplier for some component is being used and that different component requires an accomidating change in the firmware. You can't always take the latest firmware for a device and install it. The hardware foundation may have changed underneath you.

To be sure, firmware also changes as bugs are found and fixed. Now take a look at the situation from the manufacturer's side. If there are different firmware versions because there are different hardware versions (component suppliers can go out of business, drop product lines, etc.), then a bug fix has to be "worked back" into each applicable version. It dosn't take long for this to become a very expensive nightmare. Not surprisingly, the most expensive part is usually testing each modified version to make sure that the fix work and, equally important, that you haven't broken anything else. If you don't think this happens, just blindly install every service pack on your Windows machine. You'll see.

Now, I'm not saying that a device as sophisticated as my C5050Z shouldn't have some provision for updating the firmware and that it isn't a manufacturer's ethical responsibility to report bugs and offer upgrades to customers during the warranty period. I wrote this long message so that the group could understand the difficulty of providing this service and not claim that it is simple. Hope it helped.
I'll also send one in my own words!

Olympus revises the firmware anyway. All that they need to do is
to make it available to their users.
 
Wow Inigo, I thought SDS was a concern over a year ago. Why bring
it up now? I did not bother to read the whole thread. You are one
of my favorites on this forum. Did your camera die? Is SDS a new
concern?
My Uzi is fine thanks. I think I'm in pretty good shape personally. I sent it in for a few hot pixels before its warranty was up and specifically asked them to check the power board. They acknowledged, and said it was ok. I got the extra 2 years "just in case" for other things, since there's so many mechanical things inside.

SDS has reared its head again in here more Uzis seem to be dropping lately due to it. While I may have escaped, I'm still not happy with the way Olympus has handled the situation. It could just as easily have been me.

I've reached the point where I'd like to have more MP to play with, so I'm surveying the landscape. Stepping back and looking at Oly's record, their overall service and support seems to be lacking in some key areas.
 
Other camera manufacturers provide online updates by plugging the camera into the USB port. Therefore, I would say they don't find the cost or technology necessary prohibitive. Why would this be situation unique to Olympus?

Karen
To be sure, firmware also changes as bugs are found and fixed. Now
take a look at the situation from the manufacturer's side. If there
are different firmware versions because there are different
hardware versions (component suppliers can go out of business, drop
product lines, etc.), then a bug fix has to be "worked back" into
each applicable version. It dosn't take long for this to become a
very expensive nightmare. Not surprisingly, the most expensive part
is usually testing each modified version to make sure that the fix
work and, equally important, that you haven't broken anything else.
If you don't think this happens, just blindly install every service
pack on your Windows machine. You'll see.

Now, I'm not saying that a device as sophisticated as my C5050Z
shouldn't have some provision for updating the firmware and that it
isn't a manufacturer's ethical responsibility to report bugs and
offer upgrades to customers during the warranty period. I wrote
this long message so that the group could understand the difficulty
of providing this service and not claim that it is simple. Hope it
helped.
I'll also send one in my own words!

Olympus revises the firmware anyway. All that they need to do is
to make it available to their users.
 
So you're saying that Nikon, Canon, Minolta, etc. don't have any problems with their suppliers going out of business, or otherwise needing to change their cameras' components? ;-)

Personally having a software development background, I know that it's not simply "change the firmware". There are development costs, testing costs, etc. But the fact of the matter is that all the major players can pull this off -- they're actively doing it -- so why can't Olympus?
To be sure, firmware also changes as bugs are found and fixed. Now
take a look at the situation from the manufacturer's side. If there
are different firmware versions because there are different
hardware versions (component suppliers can go out of business, drop
product lines, etc.), then a bug fix has to be "worked back" into
each applicable version. It dosn't take long for this to become a
very expensive nightmare. Not surprisingly, the most expensive part
is usually testing each modified version to make sure that the fix
work and, equally important, that you haven't broken anything else.
If you don't think this happens, just blindly install every service
pack on your Windows machine. You'll see.

Now, I'm not saying that a device as sophisticated as my C5050Z
shouldn't have some provision for updating the firmware and that it
isn't a manufacturer's ethical responsibility to report bugs and
offer upgrades to customers during the warranty period. I wrote
this long message so that the group could understand the difficulty
of providing this service and not claim that it is simple. Hope it
helped.
I'll also send one in my own words!

Olympus revises the firmware anyway. All that they need to do is
to make it available to their users.
 
I am sure that you are right. However, Nikon, Canon, etc all provide firmware upgrades.

My son's Nikon Coolpix 880 definitely behaves itself a little better after upgrading the firmware to version 1.1.

What makes Olympus different ???
 
Gordon,

I am in software development industry, too, so I do understand what you are saying here.

But we all know companies like Canon and Nikon, etc are constantly releasing digital camera firmware updates for free (like within the last week new firmware released for Canon S45, G3, 1Dx, and Nikno 4500 and 5700,...). Don't you agree with me that if Canon and Nikon can offer this service (free firmware update), there is no reason that Olympus can not?

James
To be sure, firmware also changes as bugs are found and fixed. Now
take a look at the situation from the manufacturer's side. If there
are different firmware versions because there are different
hardware versions (component suppliers can go out of business, drop
product lines, etc.), then a bug fix has to be "worked back" into
each applicable version. It dosn't take long for this to become a
very expensive nightmare. Not surprisingly, the most expensive part
is usually testing each modified version to make sure that the fix
work and, equally important, that you haven't broken anything else.
If you don't think this happens, just blindly install every service
pack on your Windows machine. You'll see.

Now, I'm not saying that a device as sophisticated as my C5050Z
shouldn't have some provision for updating the firmware and that it
isn't a manufacturer's ethical responsibility to report bugs and
offer upgrades to customers during the warranty period. I wrote
this long message so that the group could understand the difficulty
of providing this service and not claim that it is simple. Hope it
helped.
I'll also send one in my own words!

Olympus revises the firmware anyway. All that they need to do is
to make it available to their users.
--
Olympus Camedia C-5O5OZOOM
http://jjin.instantlogic.com
 
Karen,

I agree with you 100%. Canon and Nikon, etc are offering free firmware updates all the time (like within the last week we just saw new firmware updates for Canon S45, G3, and 1Dx and for Nikon 4500 and 5700...). So why can't Olympus do the same?

James
Karen
To be sure, firmware also changes as bugs are found and fixed. Now
take a look at the situation from the manufacturer's side. If there
are different firmware versions because there are different
hardware versions (component suppliers can go out of business, drop
product lines, etc.), then a bug fix has to be "worked back" into
each applicable version. It dosn't take long for this to become a
very expensive nightmare. Not surprisingly, the most expensive part
is usually testing each modified version to make sure that the fix
work and, equally important, that you haven't broken anything else.
If you don't think this happens, just blindly install every service
pack on your Windows machine. You'll see.

Now, I'm not saying that a device as sophisticated as my C5050Z
shouldn't have some provision for updating the firmware and that it
isn't a manufacturer's ethical responsibility to report bugs and
offer upgrades to customers during the warranty period. I wrote
this long message so that the group could understand the difficulty
of providing this service and not claim that it is simple. Hope it
helped.
I'll also send one in my own words!

Olympus revises the firmware anyway. All that they need to do is
to make it available to their users.
--
Olympus Camedia C-5O5OZOOM
http://jjin.instantlogic.com
 
Gee, people! I wasn't saying that Oly had any good reason for not making the firmware updateable or publishing those updates. I was just pointing out that it is not quite as simple as some were making it out to be.
I am in software development industry, too, so I do understand what
you are saying here.

But we all know companies like Canon and Nikon, etc are constantly
releasing digital camera firmware updates for free (like within the
last week new firmware released for Canon S45, G3, 1Dx, and Nikno
4500 and 5700,...). Don't you agree with me that if Canon and Nikon
can offer this service (free firmware update), there is no reason
that Olympus can not?

James
To be sure, firmware also changes as bugs are found and fixed. Now
take a look at the situation from the manufacturer's side. If there
are different firmware versions because there are different
hardware versions (component suppliers can go out of business, drop
product lines, etc.), then a bug fix has to be "worked back" into
each applicable version. It dosn't take long for this to become a
very expensive nightmare. Not surprisingly, the most expensive part
is usually testing each modified version to make sure that the fix
work and, equally important, that you haven't broken anything else.
If you don't think this happens, just blindly install every service
pack on your Windows machine. You'll see.

Now, I'm not saying that a device as sophisticated as my C5050Z
shouldn't have some provision for updating the firmware and that it
isn't a manufacturer's ethical responsibility to report bugs and
offer upgrades to customers during the warranty period. I wrote
this long message so that the group could understand the difficulty
of providing this service and not claim that it is simple. Hope it
helped.
I'll also send one in my own words!

Olympus revises the firmware anyway. All that they need to do is
to make it available to their users.
--
Olympus Camedia C-5O5OZOOM
http://jjin.instantlogic.com
 
You can see that so far all the replies to your following message is "Why Olympus can't offer free firmware updates when Canon and Nikon, etc can?" Or is there something unique to Olympus as far as offering free firmware update is concerned?

Regards,
James
To be sure, firmware also changes as bugs are found and fixed. Now
take a look at the situation from the manufacturer's side. If there
are different firmware versions because there are different
hardware versions (component suppliers can go out of business, drop
product lines, etc.), then a bug fix has to be "worked back" into
each applicable version. It dosn't take long for this to become a
very expensive nightmare. Not surprisingly, the most expensive part
is usually testing each modified version to make sure that the fix
work and, equally important, that you haven't broken anything else.
If you don't think this happens, just blindly install every service
pack on your Windows machine. You'll see.

Now, I'm not saying that a device as sophisticated as my C5050Z
shouldn't have some provision for updating the firmware and that it
isn't a manufacturer's ethical responsibility to report bugs and
offer upgrades to customers during the warranty period. I wrote
this long message so that the group could understand the difficulty
of providing this service and not claim that it is simple. Hope it
helped.
I'll also send one in my own words!

Olympus revises the firmware anyway. All that they need to do is
to make it available to their users.
--
Olympus Camedia C-5O5OZOOM
http://jjin.instantlogic.com
 
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1008&message=4705387

Did these messages cross paths like ships in the night?
Regards,
James
To be sure, firmware also changes as bugs are found and fixed. Now
take a look at the situation from the manufacturer's side. If there
are different firmware versions because there are different
hardware versions (component suppliers can go out of business, drop
product lines, etc.), then a bug fix has to be "worked back" into
each applicable version. It dosn't take long for this to become a
very expensive nightmare. Not surprisingly, the most expensive part
is usually testing each modified version to make sure that the fix
work and, equally important, that you haven't broken anything else.
If you don't think this happens, just blindly install every service
pack on your Windows machine. You'll see.

Now, I'm not saying that a device as sophisticated as my C5050Z
shouldn't have some provision for updating the firmware and that it
isn't a manufacturer's ethical responsibility to report bugs and
offer upgrades to customers during the warranty period. I wrote
this long message so that the group could understand the difficulty
of providing this service and not claim that it is simple. Hope it
helped.
I'll also send one in my own words!

Olympus revises the firmware anyway. All that they need to do is
to make it available to their users.
--
Olympus Camedia C-5O5OZOOM
http://jjin.instantlogic.com
 
Gordon,

Again I understand what you are saying, that is, it is not as simple as some people think. But one key point here is Canon and Nikon, etc are offering the service, so Olympus should be able to offer the same service, too?

James
I am in software development industry, too, so I do understand what
you are saying here.

But we all know companies like Canon and Nikon, etc are constantly
releasing digital camera firmware updates for free (like within the
last week new firmware released for Canon S45, G3, 1Dx, and Nikno
4500 and 5700,...). Don't you agree with me that if Canon and Nikon
can offer this service (free firmware update), there is no reason
that Olympus can not?

James
To be sure, firmware also changes as bugs are found and fixed. Now
take a look at the situation from the manufacturer's side. If there
are different firmware versions because there are different
hardware versions (component suppliers can go out of business, drop
product lines, etc.), then a bug fix has to be "worked back" into
each applicable version. It dosn't take long for this to become a
very expensive nightmare. Not surprisingly, the most expensive part
is usually testing each modified version to make sure that the fix
work and, equally important, that you haven't broken anything else.
If you don't think this happens, just blindly install every service
pack on your Windows machine. You'll see.

Now, I'm not saying that a device as sophisticated as my C5050Z
shouldn't have some provision for updating the firmware and that it
isn't a manufacturer's ethical responsibility to report bugs and
offer upgrades to customers during the warranty period. I wrote
this long message so that the group could understand the difficulty
of providing this service and not claim that it is simple. Hope it
helped.
I'll also send one in my own words!

Olympus revises the firmware anyway. All that they need to do is
to make it available to their users.
--
Olympus Camedia C-5O5OZOOM
http://jjin.instantlogic.com
--
Olympus Camedia C-5O5OZOOM
http://jjin.instantlogic.com
 
I think that's settled now. If everybody else can do it then so should Olympus. I'm not saying that it's simple, but they should easily be able to do this, especially as they produce these new firmware versions anyway. All that they have to do is write a program that checks what the appropriate firmware is for each hardware revision of the camera, and then to update it.

I'm sure that is what the Nikon software does.
 
Reading this thread just reminded me:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1008&message=4708660

Basically it points out that Oly cameras can be very sensitive to Windows or other OSes writing to the card. The old "format in a Fuji" thing.

To me that says they have done a less than thorough job of implementing a proper file system for handling media cards.

Sure... not their fautl if someone reformats a card in Windows to FAT32 when they only use/understand FAT, but why should extra files present that conform to the FAT standard set the firmware into a tailspin?

The "worst" thing is that it can refuse to even let you try to format a card when that happens. The worst case should be it says "I can't figure this card out... would you like me to format it?"

Then we'd have less of a need for threads like this one:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1008&message=4513656
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm given great pause at even
considering another Olympus brand camera when I finally make the
move past my Uzi/Ezi. (Unless maybe I could find a like-new E-10
for $400) :-)

The primary reason is that they obviously knew that a good number
of the early Uzi run units had a problem with the power board that
induces SDS. IMHO, every camera with that revision of power board
is simply a ticking time bomb, and rather than acknowledge the
defect, they've publicly kept quiet about it hoping a bunch of
cameras will be out of warranty when the bomb finally goes off.

That's not the way I like to see the companies I do business with
operate -- especially for high ticket items.

A few other reasons I may switch camps:

Firmware "hard coded". Canon and Minolta have released
user-installable firmware upgrades that have significantly improved
the operation of their cameras, and at no cost. I wouldn't even
mind paying for an upgrade if it didn't cost me a $294 "minimum
repair cost".

The stupid Olympus panorama "feature". We all know you can do
panos without it, or hack up a card to enable the thing -- that's
not the point. It's that they sell/market it as a feature of the
"special" SM/XD cards when the feature is really in the camera's
firmware and it's disabled unless you give in to their
"blackmail" to unlock the feature. As a consumer I find that
disingenuous and insulting behavior.

So... am I alone? And does Olympus care? I don't think they do.
I think as long as they're moving product off the shelf today, they
could care less about building good faith and brand loyalty for
long term sales tomorrow.
 
Why can't Olympus do as the larger camera manufacturers and provide free firmware downloads to their customers to be installed in the field?

Don't respond with your tired "We need to control the upgrade" because that only means you either
1) Don't want to lose potential income or
2) Seriously doubt your customers have the capacity to apply the upgrades.

Realize that every major computerized product available today has firmware and the largest manufacturers provide these upgrades free of cost when downloaded over the internet and applied by the end consumer.

Olympus cameras have always held a special place in my heart (I've owned dozens over the last 30+ years) but they are rapidly losing their place in my mind.

Do as you chose but don't be surprised while your market share dwindles to zero because of your inflexibility.

Thank You, William Lynch.
 
although I've never formatted any card with Windows (FAT) nor have I ever suggested it since there have been cases where I've suggested the SMPrep to try & fix a windows (FAT) format. Some have worked & some haven't.

The funny thing is while mine has been overly susceptable, many never expierience it or have very few occurances & it's not relagated to any one specific camera. At least from reading here for over a year, there have been posts with these symptoms from almost all the C series cams & maybe even some of the other series.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1008&message=4708660

Basically it points out that Oly cameras can be very sensitive to
Windows or other OSes writing to the card. The old "format in a
Fuji" thing.

To me that says they have done a less than thorough job of
implementing a proper file system for handling media cards.

Sure... not their fautl if someone reformats a card in Windows to
FAT32 when they only use/understand FAT, but why should extra files
present that conform to the FAT standard set the firmware into a
tailspin?

The "worst" thing is that it can refuse to even let you try to
format a card when that happens. The worst case should be it
says "I can't figure this card out... would you like me to format
it?"

Then we'd have less of a need for threads like this one:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1008&message=4513656
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm given great pause at even
considering another Olympus brand camera when I finally make the
move past my Uzi/Ezi. (Unless maybe I could find a like-new E-10
for $400) :-)

The primary reason is that they obviously knew that a good number
of the early Uzi run units had a problem with the power board that
induces SDS. IMHO, every camera with that revision of power board
is simply a ticking time bomb, and rather than acknowledge the
defect, they've publicly kept quiet about it hoping a bunch of
cameras will be out of warranty when the bomb finally goes off.

That's not the way I like to see the companies I do business with
operate -- especially for high ticket items.

A few other reasons I may switch camps:

Firmware "hard coded". Canon and Minolta have released
user-installable firmware upgrades that have significantly improved
the operation of their cameras, and at no cost. I wouldn't even
mind paying for an upgrade if it didn't cost me a $294 "minimum
repair cost".

The stupid Olympus panorama "feature". We all know you can do
panos without it, or hack up a card to enable the thing -- that's
not the point. It's that they sell/market it as a feature of the
"special" SM/XD cards when the feature is really in the camera's
firmware and it's disabled unless you give in to their
"blackmail" to unlock the feature. As a consumer I find that
disingenuous and insulting behavior.

So... am I alone? And does Olympus care? I don't think they do.
I think as long as they're moving product off the shelf today, they
could care less about building good faith and brand loyalty for
long term sales tomorrow.
--
'Happy Shootin' !!!

http://www.pbase.com/rrawzz http://www.pbase.com/uzgroup/root http://www.pbase.com/otfgallery/uzpshooter

Me & My UZI, Strollin Down The Avenue. Me & My UZI, Focusin On Somethin New. To 'UZe' Or Not To 'UZe'? That 'IS' The Question. EOneHndrdArEss/sEEtWNTYoNEhNDRDyOUzEE/BeeCCC/sEE-CCX

 

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