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Pop Quiz - Which Camera, What Quality - What Price

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JeroenS

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Pop Quiz - No Prices.

I was at a little tradeshow for Photo Professionals (Stores and Labs) and took two pictures under less than average conditions.
Both were shot with on Camera flash with ISO around 350-400.

I'd like to get your feedback on how you judge the quality of the images (technical quality, not my poor shots/composition etc :-)

and for those who are up for it you can add Camera;

Price Range
Make - Model

I'll post the answers later :-)

Curious about your comments....

Image #1:



---------------------
Image #2:



---------------------
(message posted on multiple Forums)
 
JeroenS said:


Click to expand...
First one is noisy and bad/plain bokeh. The second is cleaner with better depth-of-field, but very soft. I don't think anybody cares what camera and lens these came out of, or even what kind of technique you used to make the photos ... it's how the prints look, and how much work it took.
 
Thanks, I agree...

just as FYI, these are simple point and shoot, within few seconds, were just for me to get a feel for the camera (weight, size, form), auto focus (speed and accuracy) and bare image quality (noise, halo und such), before making my purchase diction (both camera's had A grade lenses).

I was just surprised about what I saw and wanted to know what you think.

These images are unedited (just composition of crops @ 100%)
Forrest said:
Forrest41926 said:


Click to expand...
First one is noisy and bad/plain bokeh. The second is cleaner with
better depth-of-field, but very soft. I don't think anybody cares
what camera and lens these came out of, or even what kind of
technique you used to make the photos ... it's how the prints look,
and how much work it took.
Click to expand...
 
  1. 1 from Kodak DCS 14n - Euro 5.200 (srp)
  2. 2 from Canon EOS 10D - Euro 2.200 (srp)
Which causes the following Dilemma:

Goal: DSLR Camera, for mainly Studio Portraits, but also for general purpose; Nature, Macro, Art etc.
  • Waiting for the Kodak DCS 14n, which looked Ideal with respect to resolution, FireWire, Lens-Mount and Price (per pixel :-)
  • Than came the Canon EOS-10D and pricing came at a new level, improved focusing etc.
For my quick feel/tests the Canon seems to do a much better job with the AF and noise, but seems a bit 'soft' and I'd prefer a Nikon mount.

The softness seems easy to fix in PhotoShop, and as things stand now I'd probably decide in favor of the Canon.

The Kodak, although seeming ideal, the noise in the Image (#1) I really found shocking, and I fear for AF problems in low light (and AF speed).

If the Kodak 14n images are 'all' as noisy as this image I'd definitely would pass... (horrible!), also seems to be some halo problems, looking at e.g. the left eye.

Any real 14n users out there that can comment?

Nikon, seems to want to keep us in suspense on new developments and will lose some customers as a result (shame..)

I'd prefer to have a camera with Nikon mount, not because I own any Nikon Lenses (I don't), but as I will be investing heavily in lenses and the camera will just be a fraction of that costs I'd prefer to invest in Nikon, as these allow me more choice in Bodies, Kodak, Nikon and Fuji...

So dilemma is:
  • Is the Kodak really that noisy or is this a one off, bad shot
  • Go for the Canon instead and be 'stuck' with Canon for life
  • Wait for Nikon (or Kodak) to get it together
What is your View ?
 
If you are willing to spend for the 14n, go for the best camera on the market the 1Ds. The price difference here in the States is about $1200. $5800 to $7000. It is more than the 14n, but it provides medium format quality, lower noise, and better color. I was recently at a trade show and the "biased" samples at the Kodak booth didn't compare with the "unbiased" camera tests done with the 1Ds (they had the same photo setup from several different cameras, not including the 14n).

If I had the budget, I would choose the 1Ds. However, I am waiting for my 10D.
Cory
JeroenS said:
  1. 1 from Kodak DCS 14n - Euro 5.200 (srp)
  2. 2 from Canon EOS 10D - Euro 2.200 (srp)
Which causes the following Dilemma:

Goal: DSLR Camera, for mainly Studio Portraits, but also for
general purpose; Nature, Macro, Art etc.
  • Waiting for the Kodak DCS 14n, which looked Ideal with respect to
resolution, FireWire, Lens-Mount and Price (per pixel :-)
  • Than came the Canon EOS-10D and pricing came at a new level,
improved focusing etc.

For my quick feel/tests the Canon seems to do a much better job
with the AF and noise, but seems a bit 'soft' and I'd prefer a
Nikon mount.
The softness seems easy to fix in PhotoShop, and as things stand
now I'd probably decide in favor of the Canon.

The Kodak, although seeming ideal, the noise in the Image (#1) I
really found shocking, and I fear for AF problems in low light (and
AF speed).
If the Kodak 14n images are 'all' as noisy as this image I'd
definitely would pass... (horrible!), also seems to be some halo
problems, looking at e.g. the left eye.

Any real 14n users out there that can comment?

Nikon, seems to want to keep us in suspense on new developments and
will lose some customers as a result (shame..)

I'd prefer to have a camera with Nikon mount, not because I own any
Nikon Lenses (I don't), but as I will be investing heavily in
lenses and the camera will just be a fraction of that costs I'd
prefer to invest in Nikon, as these allow me more choice in Bodies,
Kodak, Nikon and Fuji...

So dilemma is:
  • Is the Kodak really that noisy or is this a one off, bad shot
  • Go for the Canon instead and be 'stuck' with Canon for life
  • Wait for Nikon (or Kodak) to get it together
What is your View ?
Click to expand...
--
http://www.parrisphoto.com
 
For your needs Fuji S2 seems good, it uses Nikon lenses and has firewire connection. Seems like a number of studios are using it. Phils review shows it has lower noise than even 10D at higher ISOs. See the Fuji SLR forum for more.
JeroenS said:
  1. 1 from Kodak DCS 14n - Euro 5.200 (srp)
  2. 2 from Canon EOS 10D - Euro 2.200 (srp)
Which causes the following Dilemma:

Goal: DSLR Camera, for mainly Studio Portraits, but also for
general purpose; Nature, Macro, Art etc.
  • Waiting for the Kodak DCS 14n, which looked Ideal with respect to
resolution, FireWire, Lens-Mount and Price (per pixel :-)
  • Than came the Canon EOS-10D and pricing came at a new level,
improved focusing etc.

For my quick feel/tests the Canon seems to do a much better job
with the AF and noise, but seems a bit 'soft' and I'd prefer a
Nikon mount.
The softness seems easy to fix in PhotoShop, and as things stand
now I'd probably decide in favor of the Canon.

The Kodak, although seeming ideal, the noise in the Image (#1) I
really found shocking, and I fear for AF problems in low light (and
AF speed).
If the Kodak 14n images are 'all' as noisy as this image I'd
definitely would pass... (horrible!), also seems to be some halo
problems, looking at e.g. the left eye.

Any real 14n users out there that can comment?

Nikon, seems to want to keep us in suspense on new developments and
will lose some customers as a result (shame..)

I'd prefer to have a camera with Nikon mount, not because I own any
Nikon Lenses (I don't), but as I will be investing heavily in
lenses and the camera will just be a fraction of that costs I'd
prefer to invest in Nikon, as these allow me more choice in Bodies,
Kodak, Nikon and Fuji...

So dilemma is:
  • Is the Kodak really that noisy or is this a one off, bad shot
  • Go for the Canon instead and be 'stuck' with Canon for life
  • Wait for Nikon (or Kodak) to get it together
What is your View ?
Click to expand...
 
I didn't consider the 1Ds (to be honist), but you're right, maybe I should.

However the price difference here is about Euro 3.500 (anbout $ 3.700).

I'm wondering what the Canon Warrenty is like, WorldWide?
Worth checking with current dollar rates (anyone have a canon warrenty 'card' ?)
Cory Parris said:
If I had the budget, I would choose the 1Ds. However, I am waiting
for my 10D.
Cory
JeroenS said:
  1. 1 from Kodak DCS 14n - Euro 5.200 (srp)
  2. 2 from Canon EOS 10D - Euro 2.200 (srp)
Which causes the following Dilemma:

Goal: DSLR Camera, for mainly Studio Portraits, but also for
general purpose; Nature, Macro, Art etc.
  • Waiting for the Kodak DCS 14n, which looked Ideal with respect to
resolution, FireWire, Lens-Mount and Price (per pixel :-)
  • Than came the Canon EOS-10D and pricing came at a new level,
improved focusing etc.

For my quick feel/tests the Canon seems to do a much better job
with the AF and noise, but seems a bit 'soft' and I'd prefer a
Nikon mount.
The softness seems easy to fix in PhotoShop, and as things stand
now I'd probably decide in favor of the Canon.

The Kodak, although seeming ideal, the noise in the Image (#1) I
really found shocking, and I fear for AF problems in low light (and
AF speed).
If the Kodak 14n images are 'all' as noisy as this image I'd
definitely would pass... (horrible!), also seems to be some halo
problems, looking at e.g. the left eye.

Any real 14n users out there that can comment?

Nikon, seems to want to keep us in suspense on new developments and
will lose some customers as a result (shame..)

I'd prefer to have a camera with Nikon mount, not because I own any
Nikon Lenses (I don't), but as I will be investing heavily in
lenses and the camera will just be a fraction of that costs I'd
prefer to invest in Nikon, as these allow me more choice in Bodies,
Kodak, Nikon and Fuji...

So dilemma is:
  • Is the Kodak really that noisy or is this a one off, bad shot
  • Go for the Canon instead and be 'stuck' with Canon for life
  • Wait for Nikon (or Kodak) to get it together
What is your View ?
Click to expand...
--
http://www.parrisphoto.com
Click to expand...
 
While you are right in the number of manufactures for the F-Mount right now, there is no way to guarantee that it will remain that way in the future. As soon as it is beneficial for Nikon to "go it alone", they might. You might also expect Fugi and Kodak to "defect" to the 4/3 (Oly-Dak) standard.

With that in mind consider one aspect of the lens mount. The Canon line is 30 years more current. As a result, there is an extremely high level of compatibility between body and lenses and flashes. Canon did a good job on the EOS system.

Try to mount a PC (TS-E) lens on a 14n... Wait, you can't.
Mount an old MF lens and you loose metering.
And it goes on.

The EOS mount is much more coherent and complete than the Nikon F mount. Compare Canon IS offerings VS Nikon VR. Canon USM VS Nikon AF-S. Canon has three tilt/shift lenses VS 1 for the Nikon offering. As you said, bodies will come and go and it is about the mount.

Steven
JeroenS said:
  1. 1 from Kodak DCS 14n - Euro 5.200 (srp)
  2. 2 from Canon EOS 10D - Euro 2.200 (srp)
Which causes the following Dilemma:

Goal: DSLR Camera, for mainly Studio Portraits, but also for
general purpose; Nature, Macro, Art etc.
  • Waiting for the Kodak DCS 14n, which looked Ideal with respect to
resolution, FireWire, Lens-Mount and Price (per pixel :-)
  • Than came the Canon EOS-10D and pricing came at a new level,
improved focusing etc.

For my quick feel/tests the Canon seems to do a much better job
with the AF and noise, but seems a bit 'soft' and I'd prefer a
Nikon mount.
The softness seems easy to fix in PhotoShop, and as things stand
now I'd probably decide in favor of the Canon.

The Kodak, although seeming ideal, the noise in the Image (#1) I
really found shocking, and I fear for AF problems in low light (and
AF speed).
If the Kodak 14n images are 'all' as noisy as this image I'd
definitely would pass... (horrible!), also seems to be some halo
problems, looking at e.g. the left eye.

Any real 14n users out there that can comment?

Nikon, seems to want to keep us in suspense on new developments and
will lose some customers as a result (shame..)

I'd prefer to have a camera with Nikon mount, not because I own any
Nikon Lenses (I don't), but as I will be investing heavily in
lenses and the camera will just be a fraction of that costs I'd
prefer to invest in Nikon, as these allow me more choice in Bodies,
Kodak, Nikon and Fuji...

So dilemma is:
  • Is the Kodak really that noisy or is this a one off, bad shot
  • Go for the Canon instead and be 'stuck' with Canon for life
  • Wait for Nikon (or Kodak) to get it together
What is your View ?
Click to expand...
--
---
New and Updated!!!
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/in_the_supers
http://upload.pbase.com/snoyes/flight_to_the_canyon
 
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