"This is ART, not journalism!" he says (photo)

ib1yysguy · Mar 14, 2003

W.F. West High School junior Paul Wilson hovers temporarially in the air as he darts down the track during an exercise Thursday afternoon. The school's track team is preparing for their first meet of the season, which will take place next week at Tiger Stadium against Centralia and Mark Morris.

... so. My editor decides not to run this photo today. He says, "People like to see their kid's faces" and continues "This is art, not journalism". Blah blah.

Any other pros have words of wisdom for me? I'm really trying to figure out who's in the wrong here. He may be right. I dont know. Thoughts?

--
Al
http://www.pbase.com/ib1yysguy
Set low goals and you'll never be disapointed.

DavidP #28649 · Mar 14, 2003

He's almost certainly right, if the intended audience is newspaper readers.

And, the shot does seem a lot more "artsy" than "photojournalistic" to me.

Who's right? Well, he's the editor, so it doesn't really matter.

ib1yysguy said:
... so. My editor decides not to run this photo today. He says,
"People like to see their kid's faces" and continues "This is art,
not journalism". Blah blah.

--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise

ib1yysguy · Mar 14, 2003

the shot was to run as a stand-alone photo. No story to accompany it.

Why doesn't this do the job of telling the story? I believe it does.

--
Al
http://www.pbase.com/ib1yysguy
Set low goals and you'll never be disapointed.

Jonathan F. · Mar 14, 2003

I like it, but the kid who's running is gonna say "Where's my face?"

ib1yysguy said:
the shot was to run as a stand-alone photo. No story to accompany it.

Why doesn't this do the job of telling the story? I believe it does.

--
Al
http://www.pbase.com/ib1yysguy
Set low goals and you'll never be disapointed.

--
-------------------------------------------------------
Poor digital-media student gone photo loco!

inhousephoto inc. digital • photography • media
http://www.inhousephoto.com

Don Giles · Mar 14, 2003

ib1yysguy wrote:
snip

ib1yysguy said:
... so. My editor decides not to run this photo today. He says,
"People like to see their kid's faces" and continues "This is art,
not journalism". Blah blah.

Continue to pusuit your art, but stick it in your portfolio not on the editors desk. Only give them the images that tell the story without any help from the copy. Another lesson I have learned is give the editor only the very best images, if you give them everything, chances are they will used one of your poorest images.

ib1yysguy said:
Any other pros have words of wisdom for me? I'm really trying to
figure out who's in the wrong here. He may be right. I dont know.
Thoughts?

The editor is always right.... don't take it too hard. (That is why they pay us.. ya know?)
He is just trying to tell the story in the clearest manner possible...

Keep chasing the light!

ib1yysguy said:
Al

Don

ib1yysguy said:
http://www.pbase.com/ib1yysguy
Set low goals and you'll never be disapointed.

DavidP #28649 · Mar 14, 2003

To me, it's just too "artsy" to tell the story.

The story I get is "gee, did they hire my MOM to take this picture?" (she's know for chopping off heads).

I've seen a few "artsy" pictures in newspapers before that I thought were terrific. One was a shot of a golfer (proably Tiger Woods) that had the photographers on the other side of the gallery in focus, and Tiger way out of focus.

Would most editors have trashed that picture? Probably. But I liked it.

ib1yysguy said:
the shot was to run as a stand-alone photo. No story to accompany it.

Why doesn't this do the job of telling the story? I believe it does.

--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise

squash · Mar 14, 2003

It's obviously not taken by a full-frame dSLR, so how could he use it? ;-)

ib1yysguy said:
the shot was to run as a stand-alone photo. No story to accompany it.

Why doesn't this do the job of telling the story? I believe it does.

--
Al
http://www.pbase.com/ib1yysguy
Set low goals and you'll never be disapointed.

GoldenHammer · Mar 14, 2003

better if the people in the background were cut. It is an ad. too.

GH

ib1yysguy said:
W.F. West High School junior Paul Wilson hovers temporarially in
the air as he darts down the track during an exercise Thursday
afternoon. The school's track team is preparing for their first
meet of the season, which will take place next week at Tiger
Stadium against Centralia and Mark Morris.

... so. My editor decides not to run this photo today. He says,
"People like to see their kid's faces" and continues "This is art,
not journalism". Blah blah.

Any other pros have words of wisdom for me? I'm really trying to
figure out who's in the wrong here. He may be right. I dont know.
Thoughts?

--
Al
http://www.pbase.com/ib1yysguy
Set low goals and you'll never be disapointed.

--

http://www.digital-life-21.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=710
Nikon D1x, Nikon FM3A, Canon S45

R. C. Johnson · Mar 14, 2003

ib1yysguy said:
... so. My editor decides not to run this photo today. He says,
"People like to see their kid's faces" and continues "This is art,
not journalism". Blah blah.

--
R. C. Johnson

James Riley · Mar 14, 2003

ib1yysguy said:
W.F. West High School junior Paul Wilson hovers temporarially in
the air as he darts down the track during an exercise Thursday
afternoon. The school's track team is preparing for their first
meet of the season, which will take place next week at Tiger
Stadium against Centralia and Mark Morris.

... so. My editor decides not to run this photo today. He says,
"People like to see their kid's faces" and continues "This is art,
not journalism". Blah blah.

Any other pros have words of wisdom for me? I'm really trying to
figure out who's in the wrong here. He may be right. I dont know.
Thoughts?

Simple. Go start your own paper.

--
JR

Joe Journalist · Mar 14, 2003

it will work as a secondary shot with lead shot being more easily read.

ib1yysguy said:
W.F. West High School junior Paul Wilson hovers temporarially in
the air as he darts down the track during an exercise Thursday
afternoon. The school's track team is preparing for their first
meet of the season, which will take place next week at Tiger
Stadium against Centralia and Mark Morris.

... so. My editor decides not to run this photo today. He says,
"People like to see their kid's faces" and continues "This is art,
not journalism". Blah blah.

Any other pros have words of wisdom for me? I'm really trying to
figure out who's in the wrong here. He may be right. I dont know.
Thoughts?

--
Al
http://www.pbase.com/ib1yysguy
Set low goals and you'll never be disapointed.

--
Joe

ib1yysguy · Mar 14, 2003

Jonathan F. said:
ib1yysguy said:

the shot was to run as a stand-alone photo. No story to accompany it.

Why doesn't this do the job of telling the story? I believe it does.

--
Al
http://www.pbase.com/ib1yysguy
Set low goals and you'll never be disapointed.

Click to expand...

--
-------------------------------------------------------
Poor digital-media student gone photo loco!

inhousephoto inc. digital • photography • media
http://www.inhousephoto.com

--
Al
http://www.pbase.com/ib1yysguy
Set low goals and you'll never be disapointed.

ib1yysguy · Mar 14, 2003

squash said:
ib1yysguy said:

the shot was to run as a stand-alone photo. No story to accompany it.

Why doesn't this do the job of telling the story? I believe it does.

--
Al
http://www.pbase.com/ib1yysguy
Set low goals and you'll never be disapointed.

Click to expand...

--
Al
http://www.pbase.com/ib1yysguy
Set low goals and you'll never be disapointed.

ib1yysguy · Mar 14, 2003

he told me that he really doesn't know. He doesn't understand photojournalism. He's going to talk to some people who do know and see what they have to say. Im going to do the same.

My question to him was, "Would a shot of this kid's face have told you that they're going to have a track meet next week any more than this one?" he changed the subject without really satisfactorally answering my querry. Of course it wouldn't. A shot of a kid running, like the kind people see every day, is not only boaring but who's going to want to look at it? They sent me to get an intersting stand alone feature photo to take up room that the reporting staff couldn't fill. I did that. So what is the problem?

--
Al
http://www.pbase.com/ib1yysguy
Set low goals and you'll never be disapointed.

ib1yysguy · Mar 14, 2003

I'd rather just have an editor that understands photo journalism =)

This guy admits that he doesnt understand what we do. He even said that he never will. the two things he understands least about this biz are "technology and photography". So why the hell is he second guessing his photojournalism staff??
--
Al
http://www.pbase.com/ib1yysguy
Set low goals and you'll never be disapointed.

ib1yysguy · Mar 14, 2003

this image would never work at 24 picas.

It's a strong image that makes you want to find out what's happening. Photojournalism doesn't necessarially have to tell a complete story. It just has to be accurate and make you want to read the paper. Doesn't this photo do that? It does a better job than a more straight forward photo of this kid running down the track with a big stupid looking grin on his face.
--
Al
http://www.pbase.com/ib1yysguy
Set low goals and you'll never be disapointed.

Magnum · Mar 14, 2003

No - it doesn't. Your editror is completely correct. It is more atristic than journalistic. Journalism is about Who, what, where, when... The full frame with the kid in his high school sweatshirt with his "stupid grin" would tell that story much better. Give the shot the tilt and the perspective that you have given it and you still have a visually catching pic and you tell more of the story and please your editor - something that a good thing to do.

Magnum

ib1yysguy said:
this image would never work at 24 picas.

It's a strong image that makes you want to find out what's
happening. Photojournalism doesn't necessarially have to tell a
complete story. It just has to be accurate and make you want to
read the paper. Doesn't this photo do that? It does a better job
than a more straight forward photo of this kid running down the
track with a big stupid looking grin on his face.
--
Al
http://www.pbase.com/ib1yysguy
Set low goals and you'll never be disapointed.

--
Magnum
'To enjoy the Flavor of Life - take BIG bites.'

ib1yysguy · Mar 14, 2003

Magnum said:
No - it doesn't. Your editror is completely correct. It is more
atristic than journalistic. Journalism is about Who, what, where,
when... The full frame with the kid in his high school sweatshirt
with his "stupid grin" would tell that story much better. Give the
shot the tilt and the perspective that you have given it and you
still have a visually catching pic and you tell more of the story
and please your editor - something that a good thing to do.

Magnum

and which story do you imagine that photo would tell? I see that and I see a kid running down a track. I see this photo and I see the same thing, but this one's interesting to look at. It draws you in.
--
Al
http://www.pbase.com/ib1yysguy
Set low goals and you'll never be disapointed.

Douglas Hanks · Mar 14, 2003

Straight up it's a cool shot. No doubting that.

It just doesn't fit what your boss is looking for. You were probably hired to give your boss photographs that fit a certain guideline/ruleset, and this didn't fit -- at least he didn't think so. Not surprising.

Take a better picture next time -- that is, in terms of actually accomplishing your editor's goal, not necessarily yours.

Personally I would join a local college art class and craft my creative skills in a more welcome environment.

ib1yysguy said:
W.F. West High School junior Paul Wilson hovers temporarially in
the air as he darts down the track during an exercise Thursday
afternoon. The school's track team is preparing for their first
meet of the season, which will take place next week at Tiger
Stadium against Centralia and Mark Morris.

... so. My editor decides not to run this photo today. He says,
"People like to see their kid's faces" and continues "This is art,
not journalism". Blah blah.

Any other pros have words of wisdom for me? I'm really trying to
figure out who's in the wrong here. He may be right. I dont know.
Thoughts?

--
Al
http://www.pbase.com/ib1yysguy
Set low goals and you'll never be disapointed.

ib1yysguy · Mar 14, 2003

I dont want to fall into the trap of "try for less because that's what sells". I know that someday when I get out of this rinky-dink news paper I'll need my creative skills to be able to take good photos. Nobody's going to want you if all you can take are bland pictures. Anyone can take a picture of a kid running down the track with a dumb looking grin on his face - they hired a photographer so they would get better photos than that. If they want boaring pictures, why dont they just give the reporters point and shoots?

--
Al
http://www.pbase.com/ib1yysguy
Set low goals and you'll never be disapointed.

"This is ART, not journalism!" he says (photo)

Senior Member

Forum Pro

Senior Member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Forum Pro

Leading Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

New member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Keyboard shortcuts