Trying to decide between Canon G3 or Minolta 7i

Any input appreciated!

I find the following factors important:

• Fast autofocus
• Autofocus in low light (as its one of the reason i gave up my pentax optio 330)

-Continous shooting
-No delay betwen pressing the shutter release and picture is taken

Forgot to mention that photo quality is perhaps most important!

Tor L said:

Any input appreciated!

I find the following factors important:

• Fast autofocus
• Autofocus in low light (as its one of the reason i gave up my

pentax optio 330)
-Continous shooting
-No delay betwen pressing the shutter release and picture is taken

Click to expand...

The 7i has lots of noise at ISO 100, stuff that shouldn't be there in many other cameras. Also, size.

But you don't get both a wide-angle 28mm, 5 megapixels, and long zoom at the same time on other cameras.

Don't get scoop in by the attrativness of the high zoom. I thought is was way cool that it had a high zoom also. I own a S40 and my friend just bought the Minolta 7hi. While the 7hi has all the cool whistles and bells its lack of performance is where I'm glad I didn't buy one.

The biggest thing that bugs me about the camera is the JPEG files are huge 12MB for the highest setting. That means only 40 pictures for a 512MB Card. Not only that but since the files are so huge it takes forever for your next picture. You have to purhcase expensive fast cards to get simi decent results.

256MB Simpletech = 45 sec for one shot
256MB Sandisk Ultra = 10 sec for one shot

While the results show that a faster cards works better, 10 seconds is a long time for me to wait for my nest picture. Also you might argue that you can just lower the settings to get more pictures on a card. I take all my pictures on the highest setting. Which I think is the same file size as the G3, 512MB CF card will hold around 300 high quality pictures. See the difference, huge, just the fact that they have this one problem would make me steer away from buying the Minolta 7i or 7hi.

The Canon EOS 10D is coming out this month and is already being posted on ritz camera for only $1500.00. That will mean the the Canon D60 will probably drop way in price. Depending on what you want I would compare the Canon D60 and the G3.

Josh

AdamW said:

The 7i has lots of noise at ISO 100, stuff that shouldn't be there
in many other cameras. Also, size.

But you don't get both a wide-angle 28mm, 5 megapixels, and long
zoom at the same time on other cameras.

Click to expand...

--
Josh

I have a 7Hi and S45 (G3 in a little box). Both are great. If you are an old '35 fan you will love the 7Hi how it works. If you are a more "automatic" guy you may prefer the G3.

josholona said:

Don't get scoop in by the attrativness of the high zoom. I thought
is was way cool that it had a high zoom also. I own a S40 and my
friend just bought the Minolta 7hi. While the 7hi has all the cool
whistles and bells its lack of performance is where I'm glad I
didn't buy one.

Click to expand...

Perhaps the 28mm on the D7Hi is more important in my mind than going out to 200mm. I find the 35mm on the S45 just not quite enough. You can control almost every important function of the camera without having to take your eyes or hands from the controls.

josholona said:

The biggest thing that bugs me about the camera is the JPEG files
are huge 12MB for the highest setting. That means only 40 pictures
for a 512MB Card. Not only that but since the files are so huge it
takes forever for your next picture. You have to purhcase expensive
fast cards to get simi decent results.

Click to expand...

The 12mb file is for TIFF, not Jpeg. The 7Hi's do a very fine JPEG that is about 3 mbs per file (it is what I use the most), the 7i does one level below that in JPEG (about 2.5 mbs). Also RAW only uses about 4 mbs per file. RAW is the same on both the 7i and 7Hi. The only reason to use TIFF is if you want to import into something without using Dimage s/w first. I get over 100 images in the finest JPEG on my 512 card.

josholona said:

256MB Simpletech = 45 sec for one shot
256MB Sandisk Ultra = 10 sec for one shot

While the results show that a faster cards works better, 10 seconds
is a long time for me to wait for my nest picture. Also you might
argue that you can just lower the settings to get more pictures on
a card. I take all my pictures on the highest setting. Which I
think is the same file size as the G3, 512MB CF card will hold
around 300 high quality pictures. See the difference, huge, just
the fact that they have this one problem would make me steer away
from buying the Minolta 7i or 7hi.

Click to expand...

My 7Hi shoots faster than my S45 because it has a 64mb buffer (the buffer on the 7i is smaller). I can only outshoot it if I turn on the "motor drive" and go nuts. (also don't use TIFF) If your pal with the D7 can only get a picture every 45 seconds then he is doing something wrong.

josholona said:

The Canon EOS 10D is coming out this month and is already being
posted on ritz camera for only $1500.00. That will mean the the
Canon D60 will probably drop way in price. Depending on what you
want I would compare the Canon D60 and the G3.

Click to expand...

The DSLR's (any of them) a much superior to any of the "Prosumer" cameras. The D60 and 10D's are great. Just remember that the lens alone will cost more than a G3 and the body even on a reduced $$ D60 is more than a D7Hi.

josholona said:

Josh

AdamW said:

The 7i has lots of noise at ISO 100, stuff that shouldn't be there
in many other cameras. Also, size.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

The 7Hi does not have a lot of noise at ISO 100. On my 8x10 print outs there is no difference between my 7Hi and my S45 (same guts as G3). I found with both cameras the 7Hi at 100 and the S45 at 50, a small run through NeatImage cleans them up great.

josholona said:

josholona said:

But you don't get both a wide-angle 28mm, 5 megapixels, and long
zoom at the same time on other cameras.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I find the 28 mm has been important to me as is the ability to use the camera like my old manual '35s. The manual zoom ring and the almost manual focus ring are great. I have a ton of old flashes that plug right into the PC plug on the D7Hi.

If you don't want the lens and 35 like feel of the 7Hi then you will be more than happy with the G3. The G3 is also less $$. I don't think there is a huge difference between 4 and 5 meg pixels at least when I print out at 8x10.

Enjoy!

As far as the file sizes go check out stevesdigicam.com and see the file sizes there Super fine JPEG 14.2. Also just check out past forums and you will see that people are complaining about the camera taking 45 secs or more to download.

The way I see it is I like to shoot everything in the highest setting because you never know what picture will turn out to be your best. Some of my best pictures were ones taken for no reason.

Josh

Garry Frankel said:

josholona said:

Don't get scoop in by the attrativness of the high zoom. I thought
is was way cool that it had a high zoom also. I own a S40 and my
friend just bought the Minolta 7hi. While the 7hi has all the cool
whistles and bells its lack of performance is where I'm glad I
didn't buy one.

Click to expand...

Perhaps the 28mm on the D7Hi is more important in my mind than
going out to 200mm. I find the 35mm on the S45 just not quite
enough. You can control almost every important function of the
camera without having to take your eyes or hands from the controls.

Garry Frankel said:

The biggest thing that bugs me about the camera is the JPEG files
are huge 12MB for the highest setting. That means only 40 pictures
for a 512MB Card. Not only that but since the files are so huge it
takes forever for your next picture. You have to purhcase expensive
fast cards to get simi decent results.

Click to expand...

The 12mb file is for TIFF, not Jpeg. The 7Hi's do a very fine JPEG
that is about 3 mbs per file (it is what I use the most), the 7i
does one level below that in JPEG (about 2.5 mbs). Also RAW only
uses about 4 mbs per file. RAW is the same on both the 7i and 7Hi.
The only reason to use TIFF is if you want to import into something
without using Dimage s/w first. I get over 100 images in the
finest JPEG on my 512 card.

Garry Frankel said:

256MB Simpletech = 45 sec for one shot
256MB Sandisk Ultra = 10 sec for one shot

While the results show that a faster cards works better, 10 seconds
is a long time for me to wait for my nest picture. Also you might
argue that you can just lower the settings to get more pictures on
a card. I take all my pictures on the highest setting. Which I
think is the same file size as the G3, 512MB CF card will hold
around 300 high quality pictures. See the difference, huge, just
the fact that they have this one problem would make me steer away
from buying the Minolta 7i or 7hi.

Click to expand...

My 7Hi shoots faster than my S45 because it has a 64mb buffer (the
buffer on the 7i is smaller). I can only outshoot it if I turn on
the "motor drive" and go nuts. (also don't use TIFF) If your pal
with the D7 can only get a picture every 45 seconds then he is
doing something wrong.

Garry Frankel said:

The Canon EOS 10D is coming out this month and is already being
posted on ritz camera for only $1500.00. That will mean the the
Canon D60 will probably drop way in price. Depending on what you
want I would compare the Canon D60 and the G3.

Click to expand...

The DSLR's (any of them) a much superior to any of the "Prosumer"
cameras. The D60 and 10D's are great. Just remember that the lens
alone will cost more than a G3 and the body even on a reduced $$
D60 is more than a D7Hi.

Garry Frankel said:

Josh

AdamW said:

The 7i has lots of noise at ISO 100, stuff that shouldn't be there
in many other cameras. Also, size.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

The 7Hi does not have a lot of noise at ISO 100. On my 8x10 print
outs there is no difference between my 7Hi and my S45 (same guts as
G3). I found with both cameras the 7Hi at 100 and the S45 at 50, a
small run through NeatImage cleans them up great.

Garry Frankel said:

Garry Frankel said:

But you don't get both a wide-angle 28mm, 5 megapixels, and long
zoom at the same time on other cameras.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I find the 28 mm has been important to me as is the ability to use
the camera like my old manual '35s. The manual zoom ring and the
almost manual focus ring are great. I have a ton of old flashes
that plug right into the PC plug on the D7Hi.

If you don't want the lens and 35 like feel of the 7Hi then you
will be more than happy with the G3. The G3 is also less $$. I
don't think there is a huge difference between 4 and 5 meg pixels
at least when I print out at 8x10.

Enjoy!

Click to expand...

--
Josh

Well you can check it out here in the review at:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/minoltadimage7hi/page9.asp

You can see that only the .TIFF is that big.
The RAW is about 9 meg
Super Fine .JPEG is about 3.5 meg (only avail. on 7Hi not on 7 or 7i)
and Fine .JPEG is 2.6 meg.

The "Highest" setting is the RAW (MRW) but it must be run through the Dimage Viewer (or the new RAW plug in for PS7) before most editing programs can use. The same is true for Canon's version of RAW (also the best setting for those cameras). Just because the .TIF is bigger, doesn't make it better, you just don't have to use any s/w to make it work with lower end editing programs. I have not seen anyone using it (TIFF) on the Minolta forum.

On the same page I refer to above you will also see real world type times for shooting. Shot to shot times are around 1.5 seconds in normal mode. Yes it does take a while to write to the card, but that is why the 7Hi has a 64 meg buffer.

The G3: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canong3/page11.asp

has a RAW (CRW) of about 4 mbs. Around 1/2 of what the D7Hi is. It has a shot to shot time of 1.9 sec (which in the real world is about the same). The G4 is a 4mp camera and the 7Hi is a 5mp camera.

I have spent the last 4 months on both this and the Minolta forums (as I have a S45 and a D7Hi) and NO-ONE on the Minolta forum has complained about the write to card times on the 7Hi.

The G3 is a fine camera (as is the S45). The 7Hi is also a fine camera, so fine in fact the supply can't keep up with the demand. The 7Hi is the choice of those who want a DSLR but can't (or won't) afford one. If you don't want or need all the extra bells and whistles (28-200 lens, plug in any flash, manual zoom and focus, superb electronic view finder, etc. etc.) then the G3 is a better choice because it is much less expensive. Both cameras wil take lots of very nice pictures on a 512mb CF card.

If you don't like a camera, thats fine, but please be more careful about statements of fact. TIFF is NOT RAW or JPG.

Enjoy!

josholona said:

As far as the file sizes go check out stevesdigicam.com and see the
file sizes there Super fine JPEG 14.2. Also just check out past
forums and you will see that people are complaining about the
camera taking 45 secs or more to download.

The way I see it is I like to shoot everything in the highest
setting because you never know what picture will turn out to be
your best. Some of my best pictures were ones taken for no reason.

Josh

Click to expand...

Yes you are correct about the tiff file, still 14MB is a huge file.

Anyways the super fine JPEG you say is 3.5MB for a 2560x1920 picture. The 7hi which is the same camera with the same resolution except it has some extra bells and whistles has a super fine JPEG at 4.8MB for 2560x1920. I don't know why the file size would be different.

Canon D60 has a Super fine JPEG 3072x2048 at 2.5MB. That is about half the file size and better resolution. Which means faster processing time on the CF Card.

Josh

Garry Frankel said:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/minoltadimage7hi/page9.asp

You can see that only the .TIFF is that big.
The RAW is about 9 meg
Super Fine .JPEG is about 3.5 meg (only avail. on 7Hi not on 7 or 7i)
and Fine .JPEG is 2.6 meg.

The "Highest" setting is the RAW (MRW) but it must be run through
the Dimage Viewer (or the new RAW plug in for PS7) before most
editing programs can use. The same is true for Canon's version of
RAW (also the best setting for those cameras). Just because the
.TIF is bigger, doesn't make it better, you just don't have to use
any s/w to make it work with lower end editing programs. I have
not seen anyone using it (TIFF) on the Minolta forum.

On the same page I refer to above you will also see real world type
times for shooting. Shot to shot times are around 1.5 seconds in
normal mode. Yes it does take a while to write to the card, but
that is why the 7Hi has a 64 meg buffer.

The G3: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canong3/page11.asp
has a RAW (CRW) of about 4 mbs. Around 1/2 of what the D7Hi is.
It has a shot to shot time of 1.9 sec (which in the real world is
about the same). The G4 is a 4mp camera and the 7Hi is a 5mp
camera.

I have spent the last 4 months on both this and the Minolta forums
(as I have a S45 and a D7Hi) and NO-ONE on the Minolta forum has
complained about the write to card times on the 7Hi.

The G3 is a fine camera (as is the S45). The 7Hi is also a fine
camera, so fine in fact the supply can't keep up with the demand.
The 7Hi is the choice of those who want a DSLR but can't (or won't)
afford one. If you don't want or need all the extra bells and
whistles (28-200 lens, plug in any flash, manual zoom and focus,
superb electronic view finder, etc. etc.) then the G3 is a better
choice because it is much less expensive. Both cameras wil take
lots of very nice pictures on a 512mb CF card.

If you don't like a camera, thats fine, but please be more careful
about statements of fact. TIFF is NOT RAW or JPG.

Enjoy!

josholona said:

As far as the file sizes go check out stevesdigicam.com and see the
file sizes there Super fine JPEG 14.2. Also just check out past
forums and you will see that people are complaining about the
camera taking 45 secs or more to download.

The way I see it is I like to shoot everything in the highest
setting because you never know what picture will turn out to be
your best. Some of my best pictures were ones taken for no reason.

Josh

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Josh

josholona said:

Yes you are correct about the tiff file, still 14MB is a huge file.

Click to expand...

14MB isn't a huge file. Try the output directly from Fujifilm's 20.8 Megapixel back.

josholona said:

Anyways the super fine JPEG you say is 3.5MB for a 2560x1920
picture. The 7hi which is the same camera with the same resolution
except it has some extra bells and whistles has a super fine JPEG
at 4.8MB for 2560x1920. I don't know why the file size would be
different.

Click to expand...

Different compression ratios.

josholona said:

Canon D60 has a Super fine JPEG 3072x2048 at 2.5MB. That is about
half the file size and better resolution. Which means faster
processing time on the CF Card.

Click to expand...

WRONG. Canon D60 has NO Super Fine mode for JPEG. It only has Fine and Normal for JPEG, and Fine has a higher compression ratio than Super Fine. http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneosd60/page12.asp

josholona, check the facts even before you post. Your statements make no sense at all.

If Josh doesn't like the Minota, that's OK by me, but the poster of this thread wanted some feedback from those who directly know either or both camera's. The same thread was posted on the Minolta forum.

The physical numbers are well documented by Phil on this excellent site and if you read his review he likes the D7Hi but doesn't think it is worth the extra $$ from the D7i (which he highly rated). If the D7Hi was such a crappy camera, then why are lots of people around the world paying close to list price for something they have to wait for.

I know that the G3 is also a very fine camera at a very fine price, but if someone wants something that works more like a DSLR they will be dissapointed in the G3. If not then they will enjoy the G3 and save hundreds of $$.

Enjoy!

I own a G2 but have used D7i on numerous occasions and didn't notice it being noticably slower to write files at the highest quality. I think the Minolta is a great camera, only the physical size and the higher cost stopped me from getting one myself. I feel it is, as you so rightly say, a different animal to the Canon G series.

Garry Frankel said:

If Josh doesn't like the Minota, that's OK by me, but the poster of
this thread wanted some feedback from those who directly know
either or both camera's. The same thread was posted on the Minolta
forum.

The physical numbers are well documented by Phil on this excellent
site and if you read his review he likes the D7Hi but doesn't think
it is worth the extra $$ from the D7i (which he highly rated). If
the D7Hi was such a crappy camera, then why are lots of people
around the world paying close to list price for something they have
to wait for.

I know that the G3 is also a very fine camera at a very fine price,
but if someone wants something that works more like a DSLR they
will be dissapointed in the G3. If not then they will enjoy the G3
and save hundreds of $$.

Enjoy!

Click to expand...

Tor: Here are a couple of pics from S45 and D7Hi.

Can't go wrong either way.

From S45, (the G3 would be a little easier to use on some but the result would be the same)



and



From the D7Hi, from the same Valentine's as above, but 2 weeks later.



and from tonight



Lots of fun in any direction. Get something soon and have fun.

Enjoy!