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My patience grows thin w/ PayPal

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JGM said:
It's funny you're so critical about rules....because you've been
breaking them this whole thread. And actually it doesn't state
anywhere in Phil's rules that off-topic posts are not allowed.

Just an observation....
Justin Case said:
DavidP said:
What is the sound of one hand clapping? You're about to find out. ;)
Click to expand...
We'll find out I suppose. I e-mailed a formal complain to Phil.
I'll let you know how he responds.
Click to expand...
--
John
http://www.pbase.com/mankman
Canon EOS D60
Click to expand...
Amazing what lengths people will go to when this thread is so obviously off topic and doesn't belong on the Canon forum. Not matter what is said, selling a laptop on Ebay and receiving payment via paypal has nothing to do will Canon. Sorry, but nothing anyone has said changes that. As an aside, I think DavidP better count again...it not just 2 people agreeing. But if he is looking to the "majority"....then Michael Jackson is the greatest musician ever. I think a whole thread on Jackson seems appropriate on the Canon thread. Why not? Every other topic seems to be justified.

Dave

Dave
 
The forums are not actively moderated, however we do passively moderate (delete messages if the rules are broken). We have a very simple (and liberal) set of rules which we expect every poster to follow. The webmaster reserves the right to remove your right to post (permanently) should you repeatedly abuse these simple rules. This is a free service, don't ruin it for everyone else. All IP addresses are recorded. Have a complaint about a particular poster? Let us know, don't do it on the forums.

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Dave Luttmann said:
Amazing what lengths people will go to when this thread is so
obviously off topic and doesn't belong on the Canon forum.
Click to expand...
--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise
 
DavidP said:
1) Be civil - anyone being abusive, calling names or generally
trying to stir up trouble will not be tolerated. If you think
someone is wrong it may be because they are new, don't jump on
them, think first. If you are repeatedly abusive you will be banned
from these forums.

2) New posters - Before you ask a question please check to see if
someone else has asked it before, ask our search engine first.

3) Site questions / comments - Please check our Site FAQ first, you
may have a question which has already been answered. If not, send
us feedback, don't post site questions in the forums.

4) Question for the webmaster - DO NOT POST "Question for Phil" or
"Phil,..." messages, the webmaster doesn't have time to scan
through or respond to all the forums.

5) For Sale - We don't allow for sale messages (at all).

6) Commercial advertising - Commercial website linking or
advertising is not allowed, if you wish to advertise on the site
contact us.

7) SPAM - Anyone posting the same (or similar) message more than
twice in any of the forums. No single user may start more than
three new threads in any fifteen minute period, this helps to limit
SPAM and wasteful cross-posting.

8) Flame / Attacks - We do not tolerate abusive, malicious,
personal attacks or self-promoting messages. See first rule.

9) Trolls - Anyone deliberately antagonizing other forum users by
posting 'flame bait' type messages are not welcome. See first rule.

10) Bashing - Deliberately and repeatedly bashing the same brand,
product or company will get you banned. If you have a complaint or
comment to make then make it once and make sure you have facts to
support it. See first rule.

11) Bumping - Deliberately 'bumping' your message back to the top
of the forum with no new content.

12) Posting several pictures - If you're posting several pictures
post then all in one message or post a link to a gallery. Posting
several messages with just one image in each in a short period will
be treated as SPAM - deleted.
Glamour / Nude / Bikini pictures - Please do not embed such images
in your messages, while we understand that such pictures
(tastefully shot) are a big part of commercial photography we do
have a worldwide audience and wide range of paying advertisers. If
you wish to bring a gallery of such images to peoples attention
then please just post a link. We will not allow nude / semi-nude
pictures of children or links to such galleries.

13) Voyeuristic pictures - We do not allow posting of voyeur pictures.

14) Software piracy - We do not allow the posting of serial
numbers, cracks, warez links or anything related to the piracy of
software.

15) Legal ownership - Each message posted is owned by and the
opinion of the original poster. Neither dpreview.com nor its owners
or webmaster are legally responsible for anything posted on these
forums
Dave Luttmann said:
Amazing what lengths people will go to when this thread is so
obviously off topic and doesn't belong on the Canon forum.
Click to expand...
--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise
Click to expand...
Thanks for the Rules List....I've already read it. Common sense is something that need not be placed on a list. I'll sum up by saying as clear as possible....If it's not about or related to Canon, post it elsewhere. Really easy to understand. Oh, and keep it related to Canon....just because you take a picture of a mountain scene, doesn't mean you're justified to discuss geography issues on the Canon site.

Gee, I think it's easier reasoning with my 4 year old.

Dave
 
DavidP said:
Recapping:

1) Guy in Ukraine wins bid on Ebay for laptop

2) Guy has "partner" pay via PayPal (US PayPal account)

3) further review shows that it's a no-no to ship to Ukraine if
PayPal is used (too much fraud)

4) further digging by me results in proof that "partner" knows
nothing of this credit card charge

5) I report this to PayPal

6) PaPal now wants to investigate MY account

7) I send them info (ID, bank account and credit card statements
and utility bill)

8) Now they request tracking info

9) I've only sent three items: one USPS (no tracking), one
hand-delivered, one Fedex last year (no tracking info any more)

10) I inform them of this

11) I get an email saying they can't lift the ban on my account
until I send them tracking info

12) I have a whopping $16 in my PayPal account I can't get to

13) I call them again (thankfully they have telephones)

14) I can't speak directly with the review people

15) Guy looks at my account and listens to my story, says it's a
bit ridiculous to expect me to have any tracking info, and submits
a request to see if there's some other info that can be used instead

16) I'd already given them the emails of two people they could
check with about receiving stuff

17) Now I must wait ANOTHER 3 to 5 days to hear back from them.

18) Paging Drs. Cohen and Kay -- send Xanax!

--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise
Click to expand...
 
Long ago, I closed my account by sending an email quoting from their terms and conditions and stating my unqualified refusal to accept or abide by any of them. This was in response to the same form letter email you received about it being 'impossible' to close one's account until the issues were settled. I received a reasonably prompt reply, notifying me that my account was closed, and it was.

No getting around the 180 day wait, however. I'd recommend checking out http://www.paypalsucks.com for other horror stories and contact info for gov offices where you can file a complaint about paypal's practices. Sorry, but they're such jerks I deviate from my normal philosophy and encourage anyone wronged to make as much trouble and hassle for them as possible without resorting to illegal means. Perhaps one day this drain on their resources will cause them to rethink their totally inept and dishonest customer service policy.

dishonest: check out the bait and switch when you register to transfer funds with them. They almost always require a deposit or access to your checking account, even though this is nowhere mentioned during the initial registration. Only later do you get the standard email saying your account needs to be 'verified' due to some unspecified 'problem' and then the highly instrusive and time consuming paperwork circus begins. They box a lot of people into this who are just trying to conclude an ebay auction and had no idea from looking at paypal's site that they'd be required to give paypal the equivalent of a blank check to their account in order to proceed. 99% wouldn't have bid if they knew this. On the flip side, paypal does nothing to protect sellers, despite making the xfer a pain the butt for both parties. Really, Western Union or your local bank, with upfront fees for wire xfer and no questions BS = much better. Paypal is not going to help you if you get ripped off so you might as well work on a cash basis and only with sellers/buyers who have a positive auction history.

Sorry about the rant. ;)
Noldar said:
"Unfortunately, you are unable to close your account while the access
has been limited. We cannot proceed with the appeal process until you
log in and complete the steps as outlined."

"If you choose not to complete the appeal of your account. The funds
remaining in your PayPal account balance will be returned to you per
your request, 180-days after the last payment received date."

Arrgghhh....180 days????????????????
DavidP said:
It's just VERY irritating....
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Justin Case said:
DBevis said:
The two great forces in the internet are (1) people who think we
have to divide every forum into ultra specific, ultra narrow
categories; and (2) people who are obsessed with getting everyone
to conform with #1.
Click to expand...
Add a third force, people who have no regard for others, and feel
the world is their personal domain, and don't mind doing whatever
they choose to no matter what others may say about it. Guess what
Bucko, Phil set up specific forums for a reason, so this wouldn't
happen. And he had the wisdom to set up an open forum for people
like yourself who find it too difficult to follow a simple
directive.
Click to expand...
 
I've had about 30 transactions with PayPal with no problems. I became concerned about chargebacks to my credit card and with PayPal withdrawing from my checking account. About a week ago, I got nervous and changed my PayPal checking account to another bank and little used account with a very low balance as protection. But I still have exposure on my credit card. I read the "paypalsucks" website yesterday. Today, I closed out my PayPal account. I've had no problems, and I'm not going to give PayPal the opportunity to cause problems. I'm outta there!
 
Thanks for the heads up!

I just canceled my account..
DavidP said:
Recapping:

1) Guy in Ukraine wins bid on Ebay for laptop

2) Guy has "partner" pay via PayPal (US PayPal account)

3) further review shows that it's a no-no to ship to Ukraine if
PayPal is used (too much fraud)

4) further digging by me results in proof that "partner" knows
nothing of this credit card charge

5) I report this to PayPal

6) PaPal now wants to investigate MY account

7) I send them info (ID, bank account and credit card statements
and utility bill)

8) Now they request tracking info

9) I've only sent three items: one USPS (no tracking), one
hand-delivered, one Fedex last year (no tracking info any more)

10) I inform them of this

11) I get an email saying they can't lift the ban on my account
until I send them tracking info

12) I have a whopping $16 in my PayPal account I can't get to

13) I call them again (thankfully they have telephones)

14) I can't speak directly with the review people

15) Guy looks at my account and listens to my story, says it's a
bit ridiculous to expect me to have any tracking info, and submits
a request to see if there's some other info that can be used instead

16) I'd already given them the emails of two people they could
check with about receiving stuff

17) Now I must wait ANOTHER 3 to 5 days to hear back from them.

18) Paging Drs. Cohen and Kay -- send Xanax!

--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise
Click to expand...
--
Patrick Hayden

IN THE FUTURE, THE REAL WILL BE ANALOG AND THE IDEAL DIGITAL
 
Lucky I didn't take the advice of SOME and post it elsewhere, huh? LOL.

I hope you guys aren't telling PayPal you're cancelling because of me. If they find THAT out, they'll NEVER lift the ban on my account. ;)
Patrick Hayden said:
Thanks for the heads up!

I just canceled my account..
Click to expand...
--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise
 
DavidP said:
Lucky I didn't take the advice of SOME and post it elsewhere, huh?
LOL.
Click to expand...
You mean in the "Other" forum where it belongs? That is where I would look for things not related to the Canon Forum topic. Why would anyone think of looking up PayPal account info for selling a laptop in the Canon forum? Hmmmm....I just don't know. Once again DavidP, enlighten us how this is related to Canon use, equipment, reviews, lenses, batteries, image software, etc. Still haven't heard how it's related. Just lame excuses why people who actually want to read about Canon issues should suffer the inconvenience and waste of bandwidth being subjected to your non-Canon compost.

Let's see....Canon Forum=Canon topics
Other Forum=non Canon topics

I guess I can see where you're confused. No....actually I can't. Maybe I can get my 4 year old to explain it you. She'll use small words.
DavidP #28649 said:
I hope you guys aren't telling PayPal you're cancelling because of
me. If they find THAT out, they'll NEVER lift the ban on my
account. ;)
Patrick Hayden said:
Thanks for the heads up!

I just canceled my account..
Click to expand...
--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise
Click to expand...
 
Dave Luttmann said:
I guess I can see where you're confused. No....actually I can't.
Maybe I can get my 4 year old to explain it you. She'll use small
words.
Click to expand...
While she's at it, perhaps she can explain to me why people choose to waste their time reading threads in which they have no interest and then become angry at the poster.

Good shooting!
Steve Farmer
 
I'll be she could, too. Though maybe not while daddy was around. ;)
Steve Farmer said:
Dave Luttmann said:
I guess I can see where you're confused. No....actually I can't.
Maybe I can get my 4 year old to explain it you. She'll use small
words.
Click to expand...
While she's at it, perhaps she can explain to me why people choose
to waste their time reading threads in which they have no interest
and then become angry at the poster.

Good shooting!
Steve Farmer
Click to expand...
--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise
 
Somebody else emailed Phil a complaint about HIM in this thread. Hehe. And it wasn't me.
Jim Dawson said:
Jim
Justin Case said:
DavidP said:
What is the sound of one hand clapping? You're about to find out. ;)
Click to expand...
We'll find out I suppose. I e-mailed a formal complain to Phil.
I'll let you know how he responds.
Click to expand...
--
Canon 1D
Click to expand...
--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise
 
DavidP said:
Steve Farmer said:
Dave Luttmann said:
I guess I can see where you're confused. No....actually I can't.
Maybe I can get my 4 year old to explain it you. She'll use small
words.
Click to expand...
While she's at it, perhaps she can explain to me why people choose
to waste their time reading threads in which they have no interest
and then become angry at the poster.

Good shooting!
Steve Farmer
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
As I said...more avoidance and attempted justification....but no reason has been given why this post is on the Canon Forum. It seems the only people on this thread even mentioning Canon are those (more than 2 by the way, DavidP) who keep asking why this is on the Canon Forum.

Still waiting for an answer.....not another attempt to justify....just a simple answer.

As an aside, I read this post along with the others in order to try and bring home the point that if it ain't about Canon, the "other" forum will welcome you with no problems. Have you figured it out yet DavidP?

Dave
DavidP #28649 said:
--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise
Click to expand...
 
I have read throught this post and it is ridiculous.

I'm not hear to complain about bandwidth abuse.

I will point out and David knows its off topic, so what!

Luttman, just to see your perspective I just read the last two weeks of posts you did and all but one (on which browers are compliant or not, oh and it was in the news? forum) were negative responses to someone else's post.

I give you both respect for being experienced photographers but get over it and move on.

Robert
 
RSO said:
I have read throught this post and it is ridiculous.

I'm not hear to complain about bandwidth abuse.

I will point out and David knows its off topic, so what!

Luttman, just to see your perspective I just read the last two
weeks of posts you did and all but one (on which browers are
compliant or not, oh and it was in the news? forum) were negative
responses to someone else's post.

I give you both respect for being experienced photographers but get
over it and move on.

Robert
Click to expand...
Interesting, I just looked at the last 8 threads I've been on and of the 8, 2 were negative (for a reason). Quite a difference between all but one, and 2 out of 8. If you're interested, I'll provide you with the link to the threads. Until then, I'd suggest that you research better, or simply learn to count before you say others are here in a negative sense only.

Ooops,

Got of topic there.

Dave
 
It should be quite obvious why the thread is here. I put it here. The people I wanted to hear about it (and who had already heard some about it) are here.

I count a LOT more people who've said "thanks" to me (either in this thread, or via email) for posting this than I have found people who are complaining.

Is it really so hard to understand? I put it where I wanted to put it, breaking NO rules.

It's quite interesting that you claim to want the post to have been placed elsewhere, so that you wouldn't have to wade through it. Yet it was quite clear that it was "non-Canon" from the title, and certainly clear by the time yet read the first post. Yet you continue to read on and on and on. One begins to doubt your sincerity in your reasons given for your objections because of this.

You and I both know that the thread isn't specifically tied to Canon equipment, yet is of use to many of us here who buy and sell Canon equipment using PayPal. You think that makes it inappropriate to post it here, and I disagree.

If this were at RobG's site, you could probably complain and get the post moved. Phil doesn't waste his time with such trivial matters. It's all a function of his "style" and how he runs the website. I'm sure it makes his life a LOT easier not having to mess with it. Even though it probably drives some people crazy. Such is life. There are other more moderated forums for those who can't handle a bit of chaos.
Dave Luttmann said:
As I said...more avoidance and attempted justification....but no
reason has been given why this post is on the Canon Forum. It
seems the only people on this thread even mentioning Canon are
those (more than 2 by the way, DavidP) who keep asking why this is
on the Canon Forum.

Still waiting for an answer.....not another attempt to
justify....just a simple answer.

As an aside, I read this post along with the others in order to try
and bring home the point that if it ain't about Canon, the "other"
forum will welcome you with no problems. Have you figured it out
yet DavidP?
Click to expand...
--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise
 
I'm sure you also think the several posts in this thread alone are positive.

BTW, I am referring to the threads from the past two weeks. I did read them. Maybe you should go look at the context better.
 
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