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Pricing question - The Jaws of Life.

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Tony B.11964

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I happened to be at the right place at the right time and took some 70 images of a hit and run accident wherein the victim had to be extracted from her auto by the fireman using the jaws of life. One of my photos ran in the local paper wherein the victim saw the photo and now wants them all.

What is an appropriate amount to charge for these 70 odd images I took of this accident?

Wouold it be better to put them on a cd for her or print them out hoping for further sales from say her lawyer or the district attorney if it ever goes to court?

Thanks in advance,

Tony
--------

My camera is bigger than your camera!
 
Tony-

Did you get paid by the paper?

This lady was in a terrible accident-can't you just GIVE her a 20 cent CD with some pictures on it?

-Scott
Tony said:
I happened to be at the right place at the right time and took some
70 images of a hit and run accident wherein the victim had to be
extracted from her auto by the fireman using the jaws of life. One
of my photos ran in the local paper wherein the victim saw the
photo and now wants them all.

What is an appropriate amount to charge for these 70 odd images I
took of this accident?

Wouold it be better to put them on a cd for her or print them out
hoping for further sales from say her lawyer or the district
attorney if it ever goes to court?

Thanks in advance,

Tony
--------

My camera is bigger than your camera!
Click to expand...
 
Tony B.11964 said:
What is an appropriate amount to charge for these 70 odd images I
took of this accident?
Click to expand...
Tough question. Probably not very much if she is not going to publish them.
Tony B.11964 said:
Wouold it be better to put them on a cd for her or print them out
hoping for further sales from say her lawyer or the district
attorney if it ever goes to court?
Click to expand...
Well, if it goes to court, the lawyer will simply supoena them, and if you don't give them up, (for free) you'll be in contempt. I would give them to the victim, (charge for prints or CD at cost + 20%) and hope for a large courtroom display print order from the lawyer. But the images are evidence, and subject to supoena.

p
--
http://www.paulmbowers.com
 
Since the photos were published in a bona fide newspaper, the subpoena will not hold because of shield laws (this is civil court, not criminal court since the prosecution attorney would have no use for them if the suspect is not shown)...they cannot force you to release the photos without proper compensation...

What would you charge most people for an 8x10??? $20, $30....let her see the images and have her pick which ones she wants and charge her a fair market value...

Carlos
Paul M Bowers said:
Paul M Bowers said:
What is an appropriate amount to charge for these 70 odd images I
took of this accident?
Click to expand...
Tough question. Probably not very much if she is not going to
publish them.
Paul M Bowers said:
Wouold it be better to put them on a cd for her or print them out
hoping for further sales from say her lawyer or the district
attorney if it ever goes to court?
Click to expand...
Well, if it goes to court, the lawyer will simply supoena them, and
if you don't give them up, (for free) you'll be in contempt. I
would give them to the victim, (charge for prints or CD at cost +
20%) and hope for a large courtroom display print order from the
lawyer. But the images are evidence, and subject to supoena.

p
--
http://www.paulmbowers.com
Click to expand...
 
Scott G ,

I see your point, and would likely offer the pics up for free also.

However, charging for them is not out of the question either.

I doubt that the ambulance company, hospitals, doctors, auto shops, lawyers, etc. are going to provide thier service for free or at cost just becuase they think she has suffered enough.

If the photos have value, the photographer should be compensated.

I would bet that insuracne companies pay to have after the fact photos taken of crash sites and vehicals all the time.

Then again, like I said, I would most likely offer them to her myslef.
 
Scott G Spellman said:
Did you get paid by the paper?
Click to expand...
No, I didn't.

Did the hospital and the emergency room doctor give her free treatment because "she's suffered enough?" Did the pharmacist give her free Lortabs because she's "suffered enough?" Wll a car dealer give her a new car because she's "suffered enough?" Will the lawyer that sues the guy that hit her work for free because she's "suffered enough?"

Get real Scott and buy a clue. I live in the real world dude. I paid good money for my camera equipment and don't work for free.
Scott G Spellman said:
This lady was in a terrible accident-can't you just GIVE her a 20
cent CD with some pictures on it?
Click to expand...
No, I can't and I don't feel one bit of guilt in charging for my work product.

Tony
 
That's why you need to charge at least $10-20 for a 8x10.

If she is like 70% of all Americans .....she will sue the hell out of the other driver and get rich quick. The real American dream these days. Over half of todays Millionairs are from BS lawsuits. Car accidents, slip and falls at Walmart, and McDonalds made me fat!

As for the Lawyer response "they can supenna it". Not if it accidently gets lost. You worked the accident, she seen the photo in the paper and contacted you. You sould be compensated for your time and work. Don't let the bleeding heart Liberals make you think any different!

--
Dan Browning. (k4lyp)
http://www.pbase.com/wdb
http://www.webdeals.net/equipment.htm
Scott G Spellman said:
Did you get paid by the paper?

This lady was in a terrible accident-can't you just GIVE her a 20
cent CD with some pictures on it?

-Scott
Tony said:
I happened to be at the right place at the right time and took some
70 images of a hit and run accident wherein the victim had to be
extracted from her auto by the fireman using the jaws of life. One
of my photos ran in the local paper wherein the victim saw the
photo and now wants them all.

What is an appropriate amount to charge for these 70 odd images I
took of this accident?

Wouold it be better to put them on a cd for her or print them out
hoping for further sales from say her lawyer or the district
attorney if it ever goes to court?

Thanks in advance,

Tony
--------

My camera is bigger than your camera!
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
k4lyp said:
That's why you need to charge at least $10-20 for a 8x10.
If she is like 70% of all Americans .....she will sue the hell out
of the other driver and get rich quick. The real American dream
these days. Over half of todays Millionairs are from BS lawsuits.
Car accidents, slip and falls at Walmart, and McDonalds made me fat!

As for the Lawyer response "they can supenna it". Not if it
accidently gets lost. You worked the accident, she seen the photo
in the paper and contacted you. You sould be compensated for your
time and work. Don't let the bleeding heart Liberals make you think
any different!

--
Dan Browning. (k4lyp)
http://www.pbase.com/wdb
http://www.webdeals.net/equipment.htm
Click to expand...
Thanks for the input Dan. Like you, I have no time for socialism or socialist ideas and notions. I know full well what she's going to do with the images and the impact they will have on a jury.

It's amazing she came away with just being badly bruised and beaten and not seriously or permanently disabled. When I get my domain reworked I'll post some of the images. They're pretty good if I do say so myself. ; )

Tony
 
First-

Yes you do work for free-you let the paper use your picture for free. They are the ones who should compensate you for your service.

Second-

You were only able to take the pictures due to another human's misfortune and suffering.

Third-

The cost of delivering the pictures on CD is minor and it was not requested or neccessary-as opposed to the effort of the doctors, pharmacists, lawyers, and auto sales people.

Fourth-
You only took the pictures for the hope of making money off of the victim.

I live in the real world too. But in my world, professional does not mean greedy exploitation.

-Scott
Tony said:
Scott G Spellman said:
Did you get paid by the paper?
Click to expand...
No, I didn't.

Did the hospital and the emergency room doctor give her free
treatment because "she's suffered enough?" Did the pharmacist give
her free Lortabs because she's "suffered enough?" Wll a car dealer
give her a new car because she's "suffered enough?" Will the lawyer
that sues the guy that hit her work for free because she's
"suffered enough?"

Get real Scott and buy a clue. I live in the real world dude. I
paid good money for my camera equipment and don't work for free.
Tony B.11964 said:
This lady was in a terrible accident-can't you just GIVE her a 20
cent CD with some pictures on it?
Click to expand...
No, I can't and I don't feel one bit of guilt in charging for my
work product.

Tony
Click to expand...
 
Shield laws even when the newspaper didn't pay the photog and the photog made no attempt to remain anonymous? Nothing to sheild. Doubtful to say the least.

I must say, I find the analogies to the doctors, lawyers, and ambulance drivers a bit of a stretch. The photog was a bystander. None of the other bystanders would charge for their testimony if called by the court. Would someone who gave her mouth to mouth to keep her alive until the EMTs arrived send her a doctor bill? Your pictures are just a physical manifestation of witness testimony. Could you hold up someone who needs the images? Perhaps. But then you'd excoriate a lawyer who hung around an emergency room hoping to get a lucrative medical malpractice case because someone was in dire need and had no immediate alternatives. (By the way you can be disbarred for that too, even in the land of lawyers).

It's hardly socialism or liberalism or [place your pejorative here] to say that you should be willing to help an accident victim (like any other witness) when your out of pocket costs are minisule and you've already gotten public acknowledgement in a newspaper.

Extort when you have leverage is another way to go. Just not mine.
C.A.S. said:
What would you charge most people for an 8x10??? $20, $30....let
her see the images and have her pick which ones she wants and
charge her a fair market value...

Carlos
Paul M Bowers said:
C.A.S. said:
What is an appropriate amount to charge for these 70 odd images I
took of this accident?
Click to expand...
Tough question. Probably not very much if she is not going to
publish them.
C.A.S. said:
Wouold it be better to put them on a cd for her or print them out
hoping for further sales from say her lawyer or the district
attorney if it ever goes to court?
Click to expand...
Well, if it goes to court, the lawyer will simply supoena them, and
if you don't give them up, (for free) you'll be in contempt. I
would give them to the victim, (charge for prints or CD at cost +
20%) and hope for a large courtroom display print order from the
lawyer. But the images are evidence, and subject to supoena.

p
--
http://www.paulmbowers.com
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
It has to be about the Art, but it is also about Science

Fuji S2Pro, Nikkor 35mm 2.0D, 50mm 1.4D, 85mm 1.8 AF, and 35-70mm 2.8D.
 
The real American dream
k4lyp said:
these days. Over half of todays Millionairs are from BS lawsuits.
Car accidents, slip and falls at Walmart, and McDonalds made me fat!
Click to expand...
That's BS. The overwhelming majority of Americans who are millionaires (at least 75%) made their money by owning their own businesses. (Try reading "The Millionaire Next Door.")

That is the real American dream.

Also, I agree that you should sell the photos to her. She is going to use them for financial compensation, and her attorney is going to get 30% or more of whatever settlement she makes.

Nate
 
... wasn't injured very badly and is trying for a huge settlement I would be tempted to delete the files and destroy any prints that I had. I've seen a LOT of people trying to 'win the lottery' as I do quite a bit of work for a large law office.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against someone being made whole. But human nature rears its ugly head in those situations all too often.
KP
Manta Ray Arts said:
I must say, I find the analogies to the doctors, lawyers, and
ambulance drivers a bit of a stretch. The photog was a bystander.
None of the other bystanders would charge for their testimony if
called by the court. Would someone who gave her mouth to mouth to
keep her alive until the EMTs arrived send her a doctor bill? Your
pictures are just a physical manifestation of witness testimony.
Could you hold up someone who needs the images? Perhaps. But then
you'd excoriate a lawyer who hung around an emergency room hoping
to get a lucrative medical malpractice case because someone was in
dire need and had no immediate alternatives. (By the way you can
be disbarred for that too, even in the land of lawyers).

It's hardly socialism or liberalism or [place your pejorative here]
to say that you should be willing to help an accident victim (like
any other witness) when your out of pocket costs are minisule and
you've already gotten public acknowledgement in a newspaper.

Extort when you have leverage is another way to go. Just not mine.
C.A.S. said:
What would you charge most people for an 8x10??? $20, $30....let
her see the images and have her pick which ones she wants and
charge her a fair market value...

Carlos
Paul M Bowers said:
Manta Ray Arts said:
What is an appropriate amount to charge for these 70 odd images I
took of this accident?
Click to expand...
Tough question. Probably not very much if she is not going to
publish them.
Manta Ray Arts said:
Wouold it be better to put them on a cd for her or print them out
hoping for further sales from say her lawyer or the district
attorney if it ever goes to court?
Click to expand...
Well, if it goes to court, the lawyer will simply supoena them, and
if you don't give them up, (for free) you'll be in contempt. I
would give them to the victim, (charge for prints or CD at cost +
20%) and hope for a large courtroom display print order from the
lawyer. But the images are evidence, and subject to supoena.

p
--
http://www.paulmbowers.com
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
It has to be about the Art, but it is also about Science

Fuji S2Pro, Nikkor 35mm 2.0D, 50mm 1.4D, 85mm 1.8 AF, and 35-70mm
2.8D.
Click to expand...
--

29 lbs. of Canon stuff in a backpack that I carry everywhere. A closet full of things that are banned in Britain. A minivan and a Fender Stratocaster. A three bedroom ranch with three owls on an acre. An aversion to rumours. Also, absolutely no Canon 1200mm f/5.6. Yet.
 
I say delete them - and pertend it never happened - They can use the shot in the newpaper all they want - but i can guarentee you will not be paid for your time in court (or many times in court) and in the long run that will cut into your time for real customers.

Was she at Fault for the accident? Or did someone ligimately creame her?

If someone else was at fault ad I witnessed it - I would just give my statement to the police and leave - I have been in many courts and heard many cases. Plus it might just be me, but if she was the inocent party - I could not charge her for the shots - but I wuld only give her a few..

Plus are you going to add this to your portfolio? How are you going to use these images? Unless you are looking for accident reconstruction business - or maybe a newspaper, but then you would only use one of the shots anyway...Plus I could not profit from an accident victim - If she was a criminal, carjacker etc and crashed the car - then I would have no problem taking pictures of her rotting corpse...
Ken Phillips said:
... wasn't injured very badly and is trying for a huge settlement I
would be tempted to delete the files and destroy any prints that I
had. I've seen a LOT of people trying to 'win the lottery' as I do
quite a bit of work for a large law office.
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against someone being made
whole. But human nature rears its ugly head in those situations all
too often.
KP
Click to expand...
 
Provide her a CD with small, low res images. Let her know that if she or her lawyer wants better images, you will provide them on CD or as prints for a reasonable fee or % of settlement.

my 2 cents,

Dan.
 
.....when you see a wreck and the person is getting medical attention.....keep on going.

NOT

The EMT service sure will send her a bill and so will the doctors!

You can bet that she will be reimbursed for those bills with the 300K lawsuit she'll file.

If I stoped and took the time to shoot an accident (which I could care less about) and the paper wanted to use it, they sure would pay me for it and then if the victim called and wanted me to take the time to print them and get them to her, she would pay too.

A professional photographer in the right place at the right time.
Manta Ray Arts said:
I must say, I find the analogies to the doctors, lawyers, and
ambulance drivers a bit of a stretch. The photog was a bystander.
None of the other bystanders would charge for their testimony if
called by the court. Would someone who gave her mouth to mouth to
keep her alive until the EMTs arrived send her a doctor bill? Your
pictures are just a physical manifestation of witness testimony.
Could you hold up someone who needs the images? Perhaps. But then
you'd excoriate a lawyer who hung around an emergency room hoping
to get a lucrative medical malpractice case because someone was in
dire need and had no immediate alternatives. (By the way you can
be disbarred for that too, even in the land of lawyers).

It's hardly socialism or liberalism or [place your pejorative here]
to say that you should be willing to help an accident victim (like
any other witness) when your out of pocket costs are minisule and
you've already gotten public acknowledgement in a newspaper.

Extort when you have leverage is another way to go. Just not mine.
C.A.S. said:
What would you charge most people for an 8x10??? $20, $30....let
her see the images and have her pick which ones she wants and
charge her a fair market value...

Carlos
Paul M Bowers said:
Manta Ray Arts said:
What is an appropriate amount to charge for these 70 odd images I
took of this accident?
Click to expand...
Tough question. Probably not very much if she is not going to
publish them.
Manta Ray Arts said:
Wouold it be better to put them on a cd for her or print them out
hoping for further sales from say her lawyer or the district
attorney if it ever goes to court?
Click to expand...
Well, if it goes to court, the lawyer will simply supoena them, and
if you don't give them up, (for free) you'll be in contempt. I
would give them to the victim, (charge for prints or CD at cost +
20%) and hope for a large courtroom display print order from the
lawyer. But the images are evidence, and subject to supoena.

p
--
http://www.paulmbowers.com
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
It has to be about the Art, but it is also about Science

Fuji S2Pro, Nikkor 35mm 2.0D, 50mm 1.4D, 85mm 1.8 AF, and 35-70mm
2.8D.
Click to expand...
--
Dan Browning. (k4lyp)
http://www.pbase.com/wdb
http://www.webdeals.net/equipment.htm
 
Only charge if the woman needs them for a lawsuit from which WILL put her in position were she'll see financial value coming from them - otherwise resize down to 640 * 480 or less drop them onto CD to ensure see more or less can't use them for any lawsuit. Plaster the name of your business and detail the wonderful photography services on a label on the CD and it will get you lots of goodwill - goodwill has no straight commerical worth, however losing it by seeking to make a quick buck most certainly does.

Taking pictures of road crashes and charging the victims if they've no desire to use them in a law suit is vile, do it much or or at all and you'll find you've a deservedly foul reputation as a particularly revolting form of reptile - -and get into print as the creep of the week in your local paper (the one party you really could have justifiably charged) and just imagine how that 'helps' your reputation.

BTW somewhat off topic being litigous most certainly has its place however my car is 11 yr old 1.3 litre Toyota Corolla - hardly a powerhouse on wheels each year I pay £660 for insurance that's what people being litigous where I come from in N Ireland costs me - incidentally I've a clean license, no accidents or convictions and do not live in an area of high car crime...

Michael
 
While some of you may believe that this is only a civil case, it may be a criminal case as well (esp. if the driver was drunk).

If there is a criminal case, and you deliberately deleted the files you could be charged with, at the very least, exfolation of evidence.

Personally I would offer her prints at a fair price, and offer to print poster size prints with foam board backing for use as exhibits in her court case. These you can mark up a lot. 200% 300%

I might put a copyright notice on the back along with
"do not reproduce" and "All Rights Reserved"

Remember you still hold the copyright. And you don't need a model release; You were shooting a "News Worthy" event.
 
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