Buy from Dell or B&H?

Christina43365 · Jan 30, 2003

Mike, I would love to buy from one of those small, privately owned, dedicated camera stores. But you've just said they usually cater to pros, and I am most decidedly not a pro. And the few stores like that I've been in make me feel pretty darn uncomfortable, because they're so obviously not interested in some chick saying "I'm looking for a 2 megapixel so I can take shots of my friends and my cat." I get that kind of down-to-earth advice by coming here.

So...I don't know the answer. I'm not so sure that those little shops are a dying breed. Maybe they are -- maybe they wouldn't be if they expanded beyond "pros." Maybe they wouldn't be if they tried to grow their own customer base through extra services. I'm not an economist or a business woman, so I can't say for sure.

Mike Hunt said:
I think the original comment was referring to small, privately
owned, dedicated camera shops that usually cater to pros and carry
a wide assortment of equipment and accessories, well beyond the
limited selection of consumer-oriented products carries in
department stores.

These little shops are a dying breed, though, due to pressures from
larger companies.

Christina said:

I recognize well enough that small store owners are feeling the
pinch from big/online retailers. But like someone mentioned before,
I don't have the money to pay to make some kind of philosophical
point on this particular issue. I mean, gosh, the "local" camera
store near me is Best Buy. I can't really say shopping there is any
better than shopping at Dell or B&H, right? Another "local" camera
store is Ritz. Is Ritz a "mom and pop?" How are we defining this?
Who is deciding who's worthy to get the money?

I am willing to spend when I'm getting something in return. For
instance, greeting me when I walk in a store instead of ignoring me
-- that would be a start. Going over different features in a
professional manner with me -- that would be nice. Having employees
that actually know what they're talking about? That would be
wonderful. I read enough online that I can see through bull
immediately. Conducting a "get acquainted with your new digicam"
type 1-hour class for people who've just bought a camera? That
would be FANTASTIC. These cameras are darn complicated, I'd love to
be able to take a class like that. I know they have similar events
at Apple Stores. I'm sure there are stores that do this...anyone
know of any in the Washington D.C. area? 'Cause I don't.

I'm sorry. This just touches a little nerve in me because I think
you can't really make some kind of snap judgment that buying at one
place is "bad" and someplace else is "good." (in this type of
situation.) There's a lot of factors at play.

Click to expand...

Dhiren Shah132309 · Jan 30, 2003

First of all outfits like B&H and Circuit City and numerous others are not mom and pop organizations. I'll admit B&H has the expertise that you pay extra for but if you dont need the hand holding why not buy from someone cheaper? Fact remains 90% of consumers need hand holding so there will always be outfits like B&H. Circuit City and other retailers dont deserve to be in the same class because they have neither good prices nor good knowledge about this stuff. Secondly, with only the big shops left, it will strictly be a competition of price by online vendors so you will still get a good deal. Not like there will ever be only one vendor left. Also, you do realize of course that the people reading this forums comprises of prob 0.001 percent of sales of this camera?

Michael G2 said:
Dell has their PC support in Bangalore India, and that's fantastic
for the people there. But I find it unfortunate that American jobs
were lost in the name of saving money.

Andy Favors said:

Andy

Michael G2 said:

Play with hardware, ask

Michael G2 said:

all the questions, take a few brochures, compare with the other
products they have in stock and then go and order from the internet
and screw the local camera shop.

What kind of expertise has Dell in the camera field? Their claim to
fame is sell cheap with no value added. Don't get me wrong they
make good PC's, but the long term effect of disregarding the local
camera store will be a few major distributors who don't know their
aperature from a hole in the ground, and no place to play with the
hardware before ordering from the internet.

B&H is very competetive, professional, with staff that takes
photography as seriously as we do.

I bought from B&H.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Michael G2 · Jan 30, 2003

In fact Dell was no cheaper. I bought from B&H because they were cheaper at the time. But Dell does have a better return policy. My point is still that if we always look to save that last dollar, the job that may be cut to reduce prices may be yours or mine. I'm all in favour of competition and low prices, but I also think it is important to be faithful to companies that have provided excellent service so that will continue to provide it.

What goes around comes around...

Dhiren Shah said:
Michael G2 said:

Dell has their PC support in Bangalore India, and that's fantastic
for the people there. But I find it unfortunate that American jobs
were lost in the name of saving money.

Andy Favors said:

Andy

Dhiren Shah132309 said:

Play with hardware, ask

Dhiren Shah132309 said:

all the questions, take a few brochures, compare with the other
products they have in stock and then go and order from the internet
and screw the local camera shop.

What kind of expertise has Dell in the camera field? Their claim to
fame is sell cheap with no value added. Don't get me wrong they
make good PC's, but the long term effect of disregarding the local
camera store will be a few major distributors who don't know their
aperature from a hole in the ground, and no place to play with the
hardware before ordering from the internet.

B&H is very competetive, professional, with staff that takes
photography as seriously as we do.

I bought from B&H.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Mike Hunt · Jan 30, 2003

Christina said:
Mike, I would love to buy from one of those small, privately owned,
dedicated camera stores. But you've just said they usually cater to
pros, and I am most decidedly not a pro. And the few stores like
that I've been in make me feel pretty darn uncomfortable, because
they're so obviously not interested in some chick saying "I'm
looking for a 2 megapixel so I can take shots of my friends and my
cat." I get that kind of down-to-earth advice by coming here.

What you are mistaking for "down-to-earth advice" is simply salesmanship. The clerks at a big retail store know almost nothing about the products they sell, being only vaguely familiar with product marketing literature, at best. What you will receive will almost invariably be incomplete and misleading if not outright wrong and misleading information. Chances are they will push whatever product they need to move at the moment, rather than the product that is best for your needs.

For instance, Best Buy is currently still selling only the G2, keeping teh G3 off teh shelves until the G2s sell out. An uninformed customer will easily be persuaded to buy this camera without even knowing that a new model was released months ago and is available for at least $100 less elsewhere.

Best Buy, of course, is an interesting combination of big company drawbakcs with ridiculously high pricing. WHen they finally do start selling the G3, I bet their price will be $799.

zgraff · Jan 30, 2003

Mike Hunt said:
Now, they've fired all those people and outsourced their tech
support to India, where underpaid and undertrained workers are
often blunt and rude and unwilling or unable to actually
troubleshoot any technical problem unless it's something that can
be quickly attributed to a defective piece of hardware.

In case you are unaware, Dell is still primarily a computer company and hence their support is trained to troubleshoot technical issues with the computers they make. Even if their tech support was based in US, I doubt they would have been of any help with your camera problem except probably politely saying "How are you doing today?" - if that is what you want to hear to make yourself feel better about your problem with the camera.

Some of my best tech support experiences have been with such folks who know their stuff better but have cultural differences.

Going with the focus of the tread, its only by constantly cutting costs that Dell is able to sell for less. And since many of us have indicated that they are not rich, I assume that's a good thing.

Jim Lewis · Jan 30, 2003

Mike:

I'm sure not going to argue with someone who's willing to put the words "dyslexic Commander in Chief" in print. But how about my favorite: "chief voodoo economist"? Those who were too young or too stoned to remember the 1980 election just look at me blankly when I say that, so I say, "Well, you see, his dad was arguing that trickle-down economics wouldn't -- what? -- "trickle down economics." It's -- oh, never mind."

Take care.

--
Jim Lewis
http://www.pbase.com/pdx_photoman
http://www.jimlewis.info
Canon G2, Elan IIE, FS4000US, Photoshop 7, Epson 2200

Mike Hunt · Jan 30, 2003

Michael G2 said:
In fact Dell was no cheaper. I bought from B&H because they were
cheaper at the time. But Dell does have a better return policy. My
point is still that if we always look to save that last dollar, the
job that may be cut to reduce prices may be yours or mine. I'm all
in favour of competition and low prices, but I also think it is
important to be faithful to companies that have provided excellent
service so that will continue to provide it.

I believe in competition but only so long as it is fair. I think it should be illegal for companies to engage in predatory pricing, selling products at a loss in order to put smaller competitors out of business, after which they can jack up prices to previsouly unseen levels.

Mike Hunt · Jan 30, 2003

zgraff said:
zgraff said:

Now, they've fired all those people and outsourced their tech
support to India, where underpaid and undertrained workers are
often blunt and rude and unwilling or unable to actually
troubleshoot any technical problem unless it's something that can
be quickly attributed to a defective piece of hardware.

Click to expand...

In case you are unaware, Dell is still primarily a computer company
and hence their support is trained to troubleshoot technical issues
with the computers they make.

I'm not intertested in listening to Dell's company line. This company provided outstanding service and support for 10 years while gaining market share and record profits. They proved that it was possible to offer excellent product and excellent service & support while still making tons of money.

But being dominated by Wall Street as they are, they eventually fouind it impossible to continue their ridiculous growth levels and resorted to predatory pricing and cutting of service and quality.

Mike Hunt · Jan 30, 2003

In the early days when Bush Sr. was criticizing Reagan, he derided it as "Voodoo Economics". When he later became president he embraced it as "Sound Fiscal Policy".

Later, Bush Jr. ran on a platform of "compassionate conservativsm" which we now realize meant "ultra-right fiscal, social, and foreign policy - served with a smile."

pdx_photoman said:
Mike:

I'm sure not going to argue with someone who's willing to put the
words "dyslexic Commander in Chief" in print. But how about my
favorite: "chief voodoo economist"? Those who were too young or too
stoned to remember the 1980 election just look at me blankly when I
say that, so I say, "Well, you see, his dad was arguing that
trickle-down economics wouldn't -- what? -- "trickle down
economics." It's -- oh, never mind."

Take care.

--
Jim Lewis
http://www.pbase.com/pdx_photoman
http://www.jimlewis.info
Canon G2, Elan IIE, FS4000US, Photoshop 7, Epson 2200

Christina43365 · Jan 30, 2003

You are misunderstanding me. I said that when I want advice on "I'm looking for a 2 megapixel camera so I can take shots of my friends," I feel more comfortable getting that kind of down-to-earth advice HERE, on this website. I get better results by asking here than I would get by going to Best Buy or a "pro shop."

Mike Hunt said:
Christina said:

Mike, I would love to buy from one of those small, privately owned,
dedicated camera stores. But you've just said they usually cater to
pros, and I am most decidedly not a pro. And the few stores like
that I've been in make me feel pretty darn uncomfortable, because
they're so obviously not interested in some chick saying "I'm
looking for a 2 megapixel so I can take shots of my friends and my
cat." I get that kind of down-to-earth advice by coming here.

Click to expand...

What you are mistaking for "down-to-earth advice" is simply
salesmanship. The clerks at a big retail store know almost nothing
about the products they sell, being only vaguely familiar with
product marketing literature, at best. What you will receive will
almost invariably be incomplete and misleading if not outright
wrong and misleading information. Chances are they will push
whatever product they need to move at the moment, rather than the
product that is best for your needs.

For instance, Best Buy is currently still selling only the G2,
keeping teh G3 off teh shelves until the G2s sell out. An
uninformed customer will easily be persuaded to buy this camera
without even knowing that a new model was released months ago and
is available for at least $100 less elsewhere.

Best Buy, of course, is an interesting combination of big company
drawbakcs with ridiculously high pricing. WHen they finally do
start selling the G3, I bet their price will be $799.

Dhiren Shah132309 · Jan 30, 2003

Yes I believe that should be illegal too.

Mike Hunt said:
Michael G2 said:

In fact Dell was no cheaper. I bought from B&H because they were
cheaper at the time. But Dell does have a better return policy. My
point is still that if we always look to save that last dollar, the
job that may be cut to reduce prices may be yours or mine. I'm all
in favour of competition and low prices, but I also think it is
important to be faithful to companies that have provided excellent
service so that will continue to provide it.

Click to expand...

I believe in competition but only so long as it is fair. I think it
should be illegal for companies to engage in predatory pricing,
selling products at a loss in order to put smaller competitors out
of business, after which they can jack up prices to previsouly
unseen levels.

amdrules · Jan 30, 2003

Mike Hunt said:
All I know about Dell's returrn policy is that if you return a
brand new defective computer, they ship you a refurbished one in
its place - not a new one.

And their so-called great price on these cameras evaporates if you
live in a state where they charge sales tax.

not true, my new axim has one dead pixel, dell cross shipped me a brand new one fedex overnight.

Dell Home Systems collects tax on orders delivered to Texas, Kentucky, Idaho, Nevada, North Carolina, Tennessee, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida.
I just order a S45 from dell for $304 shipped, B&H? $480

Justme · Jan 30, 2003

I have had good service from Dell and B&H. Don't know how B&H will handle a return if you find a dead or hot pixel (how many times will they let you return it?).

I like the relatively hassle-free return service that Dell offers. Sure, you may run into the odd bad sales rep etc. but Customer Care reps for the most part are very helpful. Even better if you can buy local from a store that allows hassle-free returns.

Bob Gates said:
Bob

Bob Gates said:

Does anyone have experience having to return a defective item back
to Dell? I have bought from (and worked for) Gateway, and
depending on how you word things, can get basically anything you
want. I just wonder how Dell is on customer support. Thanx

Andy

Click to expand...

--
Bob Gates, Syracuse NY USA
Canon S30 photos:
http://www.pbase.com/bgates

--
http://www.pbase.com/golfpic/tulip_festival

Justme · Jan 30, 2003

I bought my G2 from FS. Hassle-free 30 day return policy. The best. They also price-match internet prices (Canadian). I got them to price-match http://www.greytech.ca

Andy Favors said:
http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1761.html

Always check out anybody on http://www.resellerratings.com first before
you purchase.

Andy

BML said:

I don't have a local photo shop nearby. Does it really matter
where I get the camera? All the stores in my area sell the Canon
S45 for the same price. Future Shop would be convenient and they
have a 30 day return policy...but if problems do occur...will they
be helpful?

Bernad

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/golfpic/tulip_festival

Justme · Jan 30, 2003

Having shopped at Future Shop for years, I can tell you that for the most part it is very hassle-free. Sure, some of the salespeople may not know much about the products they're selling but the price-matching and 30 day return policy...can't beat it. Computers are 15 days.

Andy Favors said:
http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1761.html

Always check out anybody on http://www.resellerratings.com first before
you purchase.

Andy

BML said:

I don't have a local photo shop nearby. Does it really matter
where I get the camera? All the stores in my area sell the Canon
S45 for the same price. Future Shop would be convenient and they
have a 30 day return policy...but if problems do occur...will they
be helpful?

Bernad

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/golfpic/tulip_festival

Corey B · Jan 30, 2003

It is illegal if it is done in a predatory way, like say, Wal-Mart Pharmacy. They have been sued numerous times for it.

Mike Hunt said:
Michael G2 said:

In fact Dell was no cheaper. I bought from B&H because they were
cheaper at the time. But Dell does have a better return policy. My
point is still that if we always look to save that last dollar, the
job that may be cut to reduce prices may be yours or mine. I'm all
in favour of competition and low prices, but I also think it is
important to be faithful to companies that have provided excellent
service so that will continue to provide it.

Click to expand...

I believe in competition but only so long as it is fair. I think it
should be illegal for companies to engage in predatory pricing,
selling products at a loss in order to put smaller competitors out
of business, after which they can jack up prices to previsouly
unseen levels.

--
Corey

Debra W. Whelan · Jan 30, 2003

Hi Andy -

I have not ordered a camera from Dell, but I have ordered (on-line) many peripherials. I have always been satisfied with their on-line order service - until about a week ago when I ordered an Axim and S9000 printer cartridges. I received acknowledgement of the order that evening with the standard disclaimer that the confirmation number would arrive within 24-48 hours. After 3 days I telephoned customer service and was told that there was no record of my purchase in their database. Customer service told me to re-place the order and perhaps I would get the $50 rebate that had expired since I had an email acknoledgement showing the date and time the order was placed. That is the only problem I have with Dell on-line ordering to date - now, would you like to hear the story about the 5 returns of my portable computer before Dell replaced it with a refurbished model? It was not great experience!
Debby

Andy Favors said:
I am getting days away from getting my G3, and I am tempted to buy
from Dell with their coupons and stuff going on, but I would think
that B&H would be a better place to buy a camera from, since they
are a photography website. Has anyone got a G3 from them, and had
to return it for any reason, and if so, did they give you any
problems? I have read plenty that B&H doesn't give much problems
(if any). Thanx

Andy

Mike Hunt · Jan 30, 2003

Christina said:
You are misunderstanding me. I said that when I want advice on "I'm
looking for a 2 megapixel camera so I can take shots of my
friends," I feel more comfortable getting that kind of
down-to-earth advice HERE, on this website. I get better results by
asking here than I would get by going to Best Buy or a "pro shop."

Sorry, my mistake!

john thompson121186 · Jan 31, 2003

Early December I ordered my G3 from B&H... I found thier web site easy to use to place my order, (even allowing the fact that it was an export order) seven days later my new camera arrived safely after traveling around 7000 miles. Full marks to B&H I will not hesitate to use them again.

bml · Jan 31, 2003

JustMe- Thanks! I have also discussed this with a friend...and you are both right. I am not going in there expecting knowledgeable advice on cameras. I get that and so much more right on this forum. I am just going in to buy it and know that I have the 'safety' of the 30 day return policy if something is wrong with the camera.

Thanks. Bernard

Buy from Dell or B&H?

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