Reading mode: Light Dark

What ever happened to civil argument?

Go to last post
nfpotter said:
That you picture yourself as a peace-maker. You're not.

I say what I say for the good of the community. SOMEONE has to be the a$$hole.

Also, I will NOT abide by fake "positive" BS. If someone's shot sucks, say it. I get it all the time, I'm not very good.
Click to expand...
With all due respect, that sounds like an excuse for being rude. You say what YOU think is for the good of the community. Others may be of the opinion that sometimes you are harming the community. At the risk of shattering your self-image, I must tell you that you are NOT all-knowing. Like all of us, you can be wrong. And no, someone does NOT need to be an a$$hole. And nobody appointed you to be the forum a$$hole. Nobody likes a$$holes. So please don't TRY to be one.

You CAN benefit the community by being positive, and sharing your wealth of knowledge in a kind and polite manner.

Yes, other posters can be tiresome, whiney, and even rude. That does not excuse the rest of us from descending to that level.

Now, can we please quit acting like children, and as Mako has asked, go back to discussing photography? Please?
 
Sammy Yousef said:
Mako2011 said:
Sammy Yousef said:
Do some of you even know the difference between bullying and discussion?
Click to expand...
Not sure...but I am certain you are not helping your cause and may be in fact be giving credence to the counter point.....all thing considered.
Click to expand...
I see. So I should just take being called an idiot and other taunts, but I'm not allowed to point out that your arguments are disingenuous bulling. This will help my case? Gimme a break! You are not the first person to take a quote out of context to try to disingenuously misdirect the argument.

Care to actually refute anything I've said? And speaking of not helping your own argument, didn't you say a poster shouldn't post unless they have something to contribute? Well what does your post contribute here? Didn't you say you shouldn't feed trolls and accuse me of being one? Well then why are you responding? Your post is not honest and is as far from truth as you can get.

This behaviour, right here, is exactly why user moderation on the forums won't work.

--
Sammy.

My forum postings reflect my own opinions and not those of my employer. I'm not employed in the photo business.
Click to expand...
Sammy, no offense, but you are going a little around the bend. Mako is not your enemy here. He has not once criticized you. All he did was suggest that you might not be helping yourself. You have even crucified the mods before they have started - apparently based on your experience in another forum. Take a deep breath, and calm down a little.

I agree, everyone should be treated with respect. Some people are going to be jerks no matter what. But foaming at the mouth, and acting like one of them by lashing out at everyone will not make it better. All it will do is alienate people who might otherwise sympathize with at least some of your comments. This horse is dead.
 
Steve Bingham said:
Obviously this thread isn't being moderated. Do we even have a moderator?
Click to expand...
They are out there but it's the main staff working off complaints. I think they spend the weekends with family and taking pictures. As long as no truly nasty language, or gross infractions of the rules, I doubt they have the time/resources to clean house as they would like. The new system, I think, is one approach to try and address that without going broke or pulling away from real work. I would think liability concerns is their real worry and would rather not have to step foot in here if they didn't need to. The forums do reflect on dpreview though so they have to maintain some control to keep it good for the company. Best I can do/say is lead by example and learn from others....even the smelly aspects can teach a lesson if one listens "correctly" :)

BTW, have a great week Steve and look forward to more of your work
 
Muhammad Ali said it best: "Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.". You seem stuck in the negative. Get yourself free. Then, when you post, bob and weave. If attacked, float away so you can keep from getting stuck again. Know when to stop responding. Let the post button rest and recover. Hopefully, you will return more upbeat. The dark side is always there. Give into your hatred . . . Well, you know the rest.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brev00
 
Steve_in_FL said:
I agree, everyone should be treated with respect. Some people are going to be jerks no matter what. But foaming at the mouth, and acting like one of them by lashing out at everyone will not make it better. All it will do is alienate people who might otherwise sympathize with at least some of your comments. This horse is dead.
Click to expand...
I have not lashed out at anyone. In fact considering some of the very recent abuse here I've been quite restrained, but I will not put up with repeatedly being told anything I wish to discuss is irrelevant and unhelpful.

As for whether posters are "the enemy" or not, you do need to see that in light of other posts and discussions. I have no interest in who considers themselves my enemy. I'm interested in discussing what I consider a perfectly legitimate concern without being told to shut up in various ways, and without being abused for it.

--
Sammy.

My forum postings reflect my own opinions and not those of my employer. I'm not employed in the photo business.
 
Brev00 said:
Muhammad Ali said it best: "Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.". You seem stuck in the negative. Get yourself free. Then, when you post, bob and weave. If attacked, float away so you can keep from getting stuck again. Know when to stop responding. Let the post button rest and recover. Hopefully, you will return more upbeat. The dark side is always there. Give into your hatred . . . Well, you know the rest.
Click to expand...
This isn't a boxing match, nor is it Star Wars. You aren't Muhammad Ali, nor are you Yoda.

...And again the message is just an extravagant way to say "shut up". It's unproductive. I disagree that a person with a concern should simply shut their mouth. However if you truly believe that, why are you posting instead of taking your own advice?

--
Sammy.

My forum postings reflect my own opinions and not those of my employer. I'm not employed in the photo business.
 
Sammy Yousef said:
This isn't a boxing match, nor is it Star Wars. You aren't Muhammad Ali, nor are you Yoda.

...And again the message is just an extravagant way to say "shut up". It's unproductive. I disagree that a person with a concern should simply shut their mouth. However if you truly believe that, why are you posting instead of taking your own advice?
Click to expand...
I am not telling you to shut up. I am saying that you seem very angry. I am telling you to find something positive and work from there. If you can't post something positive, then pause, reconsider. I try to follow this advice. Things here can get me angry. I have found, though, by backing off and returning later, I no longer remember why I was angry at a particular member and can enjoy the interaction yet again. These posts fade quickly into the past if we let them.
Sammy Yousef said:
--
Click to expand...
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brev00
 
Sammy Yousef said:
I'm sorry. You're wrong. Anything that is mass manufactured is going to have a failure rate. Some products are much much worse than others. Newbies can and do fall afoul of these, and if you're fixated on blaming yourself you waste a lot of time and fail to progress if indeed it turns out the camera is at fault.
Click to expand...
Newbies have a far higher failure rate than cameras do, pure and simple. I've read hundreds of newbie posts, and they frequently don't ever get the basics right. Sure, cameras have problems. The more experienced you are, the greater the odds you're discover the problems.
Sammy Yousef said:
A lot of people posting and getting abuse have used other camera bodies to great success then have sold their camera and bought another one and used it again to great success. Posters who counter by insisting this is user error are the ones that aren't being humble. Putting up with a $2000 camera that can't autofocus in this day and age is not clever.
Click to expand...
Uhm, what does this have to do with my post? Completely off topic. I said newbies should go in w/a ready to learn altitude. Go in w/a chip on your shoulder, you're not going to get help. You post illustrates this, bringing up a completely different topic--experienced people having consistent problems. My post was about newbies having issues.

Got a chip on your shoulder?
 
You want others to be civil to you. Not the other way around.

All well. Another post I thought was serious that I wasted time posting to.
 
tko said:
You want others to be civil to you. Not the other way around.
All well. Another post I thought was serious that I wasted time posting to.
Click to expand...
Where exactly did I say that I wanted others to be civil to me and not the other way around? After all the name calling I'm quite proud that the worst I've called other people is bully on this thread.

...and yet again another person who has nothing but put downs contributing nothing but accusing others of the same. Ah well indeed.

--
Sammy.

My forum postings reflect my own opinions and not those of my employer. I'm not employed in the photo business.
 
Brev00 said:
I am not telling you to shut up. I am saying that you seem very angry.
Click to expand...
Yes well I guess that will happen when people call you idiot, tell you to stop posting, and insist.
Brev00 said:
I am telling you to find something positive and work from there. If you can't post something positive, then pause, reconsider.
Click to expand...
I'm doing something very positive. Instead of leaving the board, or sulking, or going after revenge, I'm raising the issue on the board. Positive attitude does not mean burying your head in the sand and ignoring negative things - if everyone did that the world would spiral into a worse and worse state. Positive means trying to make a change for the better. You can't do that if you never acknowledge there is something negative in the first place.
Brev00 said:
I try to follow this advice. Things here can get me angry. I have found, though, by backing off and returning later, I no longer remember why I was angry at a particular member and can enjoy the interaction yet again. These posts fade quickly into the past if we let them.
Click to expand...
It is incredibly hard to misconstrue "stop posting, you're an idiot" or "want a tissue?" as anything other than what they are.

--
Sammy.

My forum postings reflect my own opinions and not those of my employer. I'm not employed in the photo business.
 
tko said:
Newbies have a far higher failure rate than cameras do, pure and simple.
Click to expand...
I was going to thank you for getting back to an actual argument...untilI read your later post.

I'd agree with the statement in principle but that in no way means you should take that lazy short cut and assume the user is the problem. If you do, and you're wrong, you'll give them bad advice. Worse if your bad advice is taken to heart you'll actually set them back - possibly years since equipment purchases typically happen for beginners on that timescale. Worst case: The person takes it to heart, finds they can't fix the problem (they perceive is them) and in the end give up.
tko said:
I've read hundreds of newbie posts, and they frequently don't ever get the basics right. Sure, cameras have problems. The more experienced you are, the greater the odds you're discover the problems.
Click to expand...
Yet newbies and experienced people alike get abused and told it is user error.
tko said:
tko said:
A lot of people posting and getting abuse have used other camera bodies to great success then have sold their camera and bought another one and used it again to great success. Posters who counter by insisting this is user error are the ones that aren't being humble. Putting up with a $2000 camera that can't autofocus in this day and age is not clever.
Click to expand...
Uhm, what does this have to do with my post? Completely off topic.
Click to expand...
I don't have any idea how you think it's off topic. Assuming their camera is broken and telling someone to go out and learn to use it may mean you've badly advised a new user to work with equipment that is going to perform badly and is beyond their ability to diagnose and fix.
tko said:
I said newbies should go in w/a ready to learn altitude. Go in w/a chip on your shoulder, you're not going to get help.
Click to expand...
Same goes for the advising expert who decides they know better and that the newbie not the gear is at fault.
tko said:
You post illustrates this, bringing up a completely different topic--experienced people having consistent problems. My post was about newbies having issues.
Click to expand...
New or experienced user, it is RUDE to assume that the problem is the user. By all means ask questions that eliminate that, starting with establishing that they are a newbie.
tko said:
Got a chip on your shoulder?
Click to expand...
Just tired of abuse and unhelpful attitudes on the board bringing this place down. What about you?

--
Sammy.

My forum postings reflect my own opinions and not those of my employer. I'm not employed in the photo business.
 
Sammy Yousef said:
It is incredibly hard to misconstrue "stop posting, you're an idiot" or "want a tissue?" as anything other than what they are.
Click to expand...
I must agree, that is something of a serious challenge to one's powers of diplomacy. However, to readers not directly involved in the dispute, remarks such as those may say more about the author than about the target, I suspect.

:-)

David
 
Sammy Yousef said:
I have not lashed out at anyone.
Click to expand...
You say this here but above you wrote in response to me trying to point out what was happening in the thread:
Sammy Yousef said:
I see. So I should just take being called an idiot and other taunts, but I'm not allowed to point out that your arguments are disingenuous bulling.
Click to expand...
I never intended disingenuous anything. That is why I honestly and with respect think you may possibly be adding to the confusion/problems in some of your respoces here. Just trying to shed a tiny bit of light. Best of Luck
 
David Lal said:
Sammy Yousef said:
It is incredibly hard to misconstrue "stop posting, you're an idiot" or "want a tissue?" as anything other than what they are.
Click to expand...
I must agree, that is something of a serious challenge to one's powers of diplomacy. However, to readers not directly involved in the dispute, remarks such as those may say more about the author than about the target, I suspect.
Click to expand...
...and that is why I am keeping this as civil as I can without being a doormat and without letting the bullying go. I have come to realise that if you engage in name calling back, to someone with no vested interest who reads only a handful of posts both parties look equally bad. It's the same reason you do your best not to get into a physical fight if you're of decent character and the other person is not - they may have nothing of value to lose if their life is such that they pick fights, but you sure do.

--
Sammy.

My forum postings reflect my own opinions and not those of my employer. I'm not employed in the photo business.
 
ott77n said:
Sammy Yousef said:
  • Dredging up past posts in an attempt to discredit someone,
Click to expand...
You brought that up yourself!
Click to expand...
I did not bring that up as a way to discredit myself. I did not selectively quote to make myself look bad. Stop being so disingenuous.
ott77n said:
You did exactly that.
You started the thread to call other people stupid.
Click to expand...
I said I could not believe so many people were stupid enough to use flash well beyond it's range. I singled no one out, and a few initial responders understood my meaning - that the act rather than the people were stupid. Nonetheless I acknowledged that my wording was poor when I was painted as some sort of monster. Something I've very rarely seen from others on this board even much worse. The thread stands for itself.

If I was indeed trolling, what purpose would I have had in bringing up my own past mistakes?

--
Sammy.

My forum postings reflect my own opinions and not those of my employer. I'm not employed in the photo business.
 
Sammy Yousef said:
Internet or not, no one should have to tolerate abuse. No one should have to tolerate repeatedly being told their content isn't worth reading. You can't build a friendly helpful community when that is allowed.
Click to expand...
If 20 people tell you your content isn't worth reading; it should tell you something.

If 4 people tell you repeatedly your content isn't worth reading; it should tell you something (entirely different)

All friendly people are not helpfull and all helpful people are not friendly; and a lot of people are neither friendly or helpfull; you are suggesting that we limited this board to people you approve of.

If you want the right of free speach, then you have to pay the price.

Is is neither required or desired that you respone to any post on these fourms.
--
Charlie
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Satyaa
Shoutout to DPR fora and passionate members
Replies
0
Views
1
Satyaa
Satyaa
Rafael Rivera
Troll farms, corporate ties, or brand zealotry- or all of the above?
2
Replies
38
Views
39
Bassam Guy
B
JimKasson
Why we own cameras, and why it matters
2
Replies
38
Views
52
DavidMillier
DavidMillier
I
DxO and Fuji Film Simulations
Replies
0
Views
11
ikolbyi
I
DavidMillier
Thinking about styles of photography and how this impacts gear choices
2 3
Replies
43
Views
44
DavidMillier
DavidMillier

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top