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Sony NEX-5R Touch Screen vs NEX-6 lack of touch screen?

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tesilab said:
A touchscreen is no more irrelevant on a camera with a built-in EVF than the flip LCD is irrelevant. There are times to use each method (EVF vs LCD) for composition. When using the LCD, touch is potentially fantastically useful.

I use the LCD for composition when the display isn't too washed out. The touch operation is hampered by the fact that it does too much (I don't find it useful for menus, only for focus and focus checking). Also the problem with touch was that it was enabled still enabled when using the add-on EVF.

Not all of us who buy cameras with built-in EVFs intend to use the EVF exclusively for composition, but to have it available as a vital adjunct, without having the awkward bulk of the add-on.
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+1 to all the above. I find the touch to focus very useful on my GF3 - when using a tripod, for video and for general use (using left hand for touch screen and right hand to adjust exposure etc makes for nice fast operation.

A question re the Nex 5N - as I am thinking of picking up a cheap one to upgrade from my Nex 5 (mainly because I want to add the evf). On my Gf3 I can turn ON touch to focus and turn OFF all other touch controls (menu, shutter etc) which is perfect as I don't use those and prevents accidentally changing something or taking a picture via touch. Can I do the same thing with the 5N (just have touch to focus enabled and all other touchscreen features off)? Thanks.
 
H. Paul Moon said:
Nell27 said:
chillzatl said:
I upgraded from the 5 to 5n and the touchscreen was one of the things I thought would be cool, but I've only used it to play around with here and there and really find it to be in the way more than anything. It's finicky to use to get in and out of menus vs. the physical buttons and the responsiveness when navigating the menus is, IMO, poorly tuned. Recently I had quite a few issues with it getting touched by accident and activating menu options when I was trying to get a shot.
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You're 100% correct and that's why serious photographers usually stay away from this type feature.

It's a fun little tool that the iPhone/iPad crowd finds cool but it's not something that holds much interest for most photographers.

I can understand why the inexperienced person or the cell phone camera/point & shoot up-grader might like a touch screen but it has too many drawbacks and one of them is the accidental touching of the screen.

Even the touch focus is something that only gets you in the general area and isn't dependable when you're using auto focus.

Naturally, all this is just an opinion and shouldn't be taken too serious. If you like the touch screen and it meets your needs, then you should be using it. Everyone pays their hard earned money for a camera and should get whatever makes them happy.
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You sound awfully insecure, despite your concluding disclaimer. Your vast generalizations are subsumed by the question of whether a picture is good or not, plain and simple. There is no such thing as a "serious" photographer versus some other ghettoized class of creative people. And I have this sneaking suspicion that if you were to publicly share a portfolio of your work, well...
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Interesting comment. I take it you disagree with my opinion about the touch screen.

Your web site indicates you may know something about video cameras but all your gallery photos were taken with an NEX 5 (no touch screen).

Is the NEX 5 your first interchangeable lens camera? I'll share some "portfolio" pictures if you post a couple of pictures taken with an NEX that has a touch screen.
 
Sorry, but it's the notion of labels that sets me off. Monikers like "professional" and "serious" are mostly used to divert attention away from creative art, in a weird sort of labor union mentality that has nothing to do with objective judgment.

You were almost there by saying that it's all about what people like, but ultimately the universal law is that any strategy -- even a "non-pro" or "amateur" functionality like touch-focusing -- is good when it results in good art! So really, it's all about what works, to produce the best art in the hands of a given, unique person.

That's a long way of saying, generalizations are antiquated and meaningless in the tech space. There's no amateur, no pro, no beginner and no veteran.
 
chillzatl said:
I upgraded from the 5 to 5n and the touchscreen was one of the things I thought would be cool, but I've only used it to play around with here and there and really find it to be in the way more than anything. It's finicky to use to get in and out of menus vs. the physical buttons and the responsiveness when navigating the menus is, IMO, poorly tuned. Recently I had quite a few issues with it getting touched by accident and activating menu options when I was trying to get a shot.
Click to expand...
Funny how everyone is different. I use the touch screen all the time. A two hand hold and my left thumb touching the screen for fast focus on non centered subjects. The scroll wheel is WAY to slow !

wll
 
for a stable hold and esp. for manual focusing the role of the left
arm is to support the lens close to its end, and of course to operate
focusing ring, while the right hand supports most of the weight, and
is ready to press a shutter - thus the left thumb is nowhere close
to a screen :) unless one is constantly forced to fiddle with menus
by poking into a touch screen !

jpr2
wll said:
Funny how everyone is different. I use the touch screen all the time. A two hand hold and my left thumb touching the screen for fast focus on non centered subjects. The scroll wheel is WAY to slow !
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--
~
street candids (non-interactive):
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157609618638319/
music and dance:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341265280/
B&W:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623306407882/
wildlife & macro:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341377106/
interactive street:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623181919323/

Comments and critique are always welcome!
~
 
No Touch, no Nex.
Big bummer they left the touch out of the Nex6
I really like it, it makes focussing extremely easy (or flexible)
 
Mellowmark said:
Mellowmark wrote:
tesilab said:
A touchscreen is no more irrelevant on a camera with a built-in EVF than the flip LCD is irrelevant. There are times to use each method (EVF vs LCD) for composition. When using the LCD, touch is potentially fantastically useful.

I use the LCD for composition when the display isn't too washed out. The touch operation is hampered by the fact that it does too much (I don't find it useful for menus, only for focus and focus checking). Also the problem with touch was that it was enabled still enabled when using the add-on EVF.

Not all of us who buy cameras with built-in EVFs intend to use the EVF exclusively for composition, but to have it available as a vital adjunct, without having the awkward bulk of the add-on.
Click to expand...
+1 to all the above. I find the touch to focus very useful on my GF3 - when using a tripod, for video and for general use (using left hand for touch screen and right hand to adjust exposure etc makes for nice fast operation.

A question re the Nex 5N - as I am thinking of picking up a cheap one to upgrade from my Nex 5 (mainly because I want to add the evf). On my Gf3 I can turn ON touch to focus and turn OFF all other touch controls (menu, shutter etc) which is perfect as I don't use those and prevents accidentally changing something or taking a picture via touch. Can I do the same thing with the 5N (just have touch to focus enabled and all other touchscreen features off)? Thanks.
Click to expand...
Touchscreen capability on the 5N is all or nothing.
 
El Matadurr said:
El Matadurr wrote:

Keep in mind, if you use the viewfinder on the NEX-6 (you almost always should unless you are trying to do some angled shots) ...

http://matthewdurrphotography.com
Click to expand...
You should use a viewfinder in the same way, for example, that you should prefer oranges over apples, because Matadurr says so.

Really, there is no "should" regarding this. It is personal taste. I prefer viewfinders only when the sun is very bright or I need to quickly aim a very long focus lens on a distant moving object. For me that's 10% of the time. The rest of the time I prefer waist level shooting and interacting face to face with my subject. But, I don't presume to tell others that they should prefer apples to oranges.
 
quezra you are right on with these comments.

All cameras will get touch screens as camera makers realize that open app add-ins are the biggest untapped capability in camera design, especially for pros, but for everyone.

If Sony doesn't come out with an SDK that is usable, (and Sony's history is to do crazy closed things, so I don't expect one) then someone else will, and if the camera is decent it will go like wildfire. It is the single biggest change to photography that requires no new deep technology to do. If Apple or Google made cameras it would have happened in their first product. But, I'm afraid one or two camera companies are going to have to go the way of Nokia or Rim before it all settles out.
 
focuspulling said:
H. Paul Moon wrote:

Sorry, but it's the notion of labels that sets me off. Monikers like "professional" and "serious" are mostly used to divert attention away from creative art, in a weird sort of labor union mentality that has nothing to do with objective judgment.

You were almost there by saying that it's all about what people like, but ultimately the universal law is that any strategy -- even a "non-pro" or "amateur" functionality like touch-focusing -- is good when it results in good art! So really, it's all about what works, to produce the best art in the hands of a given, unique person.

That's a long way of saying, generalizations are antiquated and meaningless in the tech space. There's no amateur, no pro, no beginner and no veteran.
Click to expand...
You are so right, this is so well expressed, and it is so nice to have someone else saying so. Thank you.
 
There's always some sort of compromise. You can have either an integrated EVF (NEX-6/7) or a touch screen. I've worked with both the NEX-5N and the NEX-7 and have a hard time choosing between the two.


The touch screen is extremely useful for focusing adapted lenses: just tap any area of the screen to engage the focus assist window at that specific location. With the NEX-7, you have to scroll the window horizontally and vertically - it takes a lot more time to position the window over your subject - quite tedious after a while.


A faster technique would be focusing & recomposing, but that doesn't always work. My favorite lens - the Zeiss Sonnar 50mm F1.5 ZM - has field curvature which means that the optimum focus distance varies in different parts of the frame. To nail the focus, you need to position the MF assist window over any off center subjects. With the NEX-5N it was a simple matter of just tapping the subject on the touch screen; much quicker than on the NEX-7. All was fine until you came across a situation where the rear screen was washed out...


Rudy wrote:
Rudy said:
No Touch, no Nex.
Big bummer they left the touch out of the Nex6
I really like it, it makes focussing extremely easy (or flexible)
Click to expand...
 
I'm currently undecided as to whether to purchase the Nex 5r or the Nex 6. Admittedly though, I'm leaning more towards the Nex 5r at the moment since I'm enticed by its touch AF and touch shutter features. I also highly prefer composing with an LCD over a viewfinder since I do a lot of candid photography. From my experience, waist level shooting is integral for candid street captures and spontaneous portraiture.

I do have some lingering doubts though. How is the touch functionality of the Nex 5N? Is it accurate enough not to be a bother? Also, how does the rear LCD fare with strong sunlight? Are you satisfied with the device's "Sunny" setting? If one can't compose outside with the LCD, then the Nex 6 and its EVF would certainly be the better option.

Thank you.
 
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I'd like to thank everyone for giving me some good view points and also some insight into the value and capabilities of a touch screen. A lot of this comes down to habit and personal preference. Taking everything into consideration, I think that for me a NEX-5R with a Power zoom lens would be a perfect upgrade from point and shoot compact mega-zoom. I don't remember the last time I thought I needed a viewfinder. And I probably fit the target audience for NEX-5R more so then NEX-6.

However, as I have mentioned in other threads, I think the NEX-6 maybe more likely to overcome the video overheating then the NEX-5R due to it's size. If the reviews prove that 5R has overcome overheating that will be my choice, but if the 5R has the issue and the NEX-6 doesn't then I will get the 6 despite my preference for touch focusing, which has quiet an appeal for an amateur like me.
 
Emptiness Ensues said:
Emptiness Ensues wrote:

I'm currently undecided as to whether to purchase the Nex 5r or the Nex 6. Admittedly though, I'm leaning more towards the Nex 5r at the moment since I'm enticed by its touch AF and touch shutter features. I also highly prefer composing with an LCD over a viewfinder since I do a lot of candid photography. From my experience, waist level shooting is integral for candid street captures and spontaneous portraiture.
Click to expand...
I agree fully; a tilting screen is enormously helpful for unobtrusive, waist level shooting. It'll be a little more difficult with the RX1 I plan on getting (although that camera obviously has other advantages).
Emptiness Ensues said:
I do have some lingering doubts though. How is the touch functionality of the Nex 5N? Is it accurate enough not to be a bother? Also, how does the rear LCD fare with strong sunlight? Are you satisfied with the device's "Sunny" setting? If one can't compose outside with the LCD, then the Nex 6 and its EVF would certainly be the better option.

Thank you.
Click to expand...
I found the touch screen of the NEX-5N to be quite responsive and it was no problem to select an AF point with a reasonable degree of precision.


In strong sunlight, the screen is very difficult to see. I tried the "sunny" setting a few times but found the enhanced image more a distraction than a help. Really, with a lot of glare, you need the EVF. It's one thing composing a photo, quite another to see fine detail well enough to manually focus a lens. This is where the NEX-6 becomes the more attractive option financially: it's cheaper than the NEX-5R + EVF.
 
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Emptiness Ensues said:
Also, how does the rear LCD fare with strong sunlight? Are you satisfied with the device's "Sunny" setting? If one can't compose outside with the LCD, then the Nex 6 and its EVF would certainly be the better option.
Click to expand...
I use a lot of manual focus lenses. Focus is a far more demanding test than composition, even with peaking. I have no problem with composition or focusing in average midday sunlight, however I live in the northern part of the US. In beach glare conditions and in tropical sunlight, it is more difficult to compose (can be done), but is practically impossible to manual focus with the lcd, even set on "sunny". There is a clip-on lcd shade available from third parties. It is a nicely designed product and works. However, in my case, since I only want it for <1% of my shooting, it seems I never have it with me.
 
wb2trf said:
wb2trf wrote:
wb2trf said:
El Matadurr wrote:

Keep in mind, if you use the viewfinder on the NEX-6 (you almost always should unless you are trying to do some angled shots) ...

http://matthewdurrphotography.com
Click to expand...
You should use a viewfinder in the same way, for example, that you should prefer oranges over apples, because Matadurr says so.

Really, there is no "should" regarding this. It is personal taste. I prefer viewfinders only when the sun is very bright or I need to quickly aim a very long focus lens on a distant moving object. For me that's 10% of the time. The rest of the time I prefer waist level shooting and interacting face to face with my subject. But, I don't presume to tell others that they should prefer apples to oranges.
Click to expand...
I have found view finders to also be better when tracking and especially when the subject fills a small part of the frame.
 
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viztyger said:
viztyger wrote:
In strong sunlight, the screen is very difficult to see. I tried the "sunny" setting a few times but found the enhanced image more a distraction than a help. Really, with a lot of glare, you need the EVF. It's one thing composing a photo, quite another to see fine detail well enough to manually focus a lens. This is where the NEX-6 becomes the more attractive option financially: it's cheaper than the NEX-5R + EVF.
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Yep. I bought my first EVF camera nine years ago, and still use it (F828). The EVF, as should be expected, was rather rudimentary (but acceptable for its time). It still found use because using LCD screen can be an issue on many occasions. Interestingly enough, it was (and is) quite a challenge to use CPL on F828 but the EVF slightly edged out the LCD. This isn’t true anymore though as LCD technology (and EVF, of course) has progressed by leaps and bounds since.

For me, it isn’t just the glare, but compositional aspect as well, where I find EVF to be more useful. I use EVF on my A55 for all but shots at an awkward angle. I miss EVF on my NEX-3 most of the time. While touch-screen may be a good add-on, if I’m shooting something stationary, I usually have enough time at hand to compose, beginning with focus peaking and zooming in to fine tune. If I’m shooting something moving, I’ve always found it more natural to track via EVF.
 
chillzatl said:
chillzatl wrote:
krasse said:
If I always would use E-mount lenses I might not value the touch-feature as high, but I chose the Nex system just because it gives me the option to use almost any manual lens on the market and thats why the I value the touchfocus highly...
Click to expand...
how do you touch focus non E-mount lenses?
Click to expand...
I don't focus with the touchscreen when using manual lenses. I focus manually with the help of peaking colors. But to pinpoint the focus it's almost necessary to magnify the part of the picture and thats where touchscreen wins.

With the touchscreen I can magnify and pinpoint the focus a lot faster than with the ordinary buttons. It saves invaluable seconds and makes all the difference between a perfect focused shot or a forever missed moment.

I'd rather have a touchscreen than a viewfinder, because the viewfinder is more valuable when adjusting exposure settings, but many times a picture with suboptimal exposure is possible to "rescue" (especially when shooting raw), but a missed focus isn't possible to rescue...
That's why I value the touchscreen so highly.

Besides...
It's just plain stupid building a camera with wifi and "app-support" but without touchscreen...

And I don't like to support or encourage stupidity...
 
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krasse said:
krasse wrote:

Besides...
It's just plain stupid building a camera with wifi and "app-support" but without touchscreen...

And I don't like to support or encourage stupidity...
Click to expand...
Thanks. That made me laugh. :-)
 
Not having every used a camera touch screen before, it's not high on my list. I'll be upgrading soon from an LX3, which has been a great little camera, but with no EVF. At, for example, the coast when it's bright, using the LCD panel can be pure guess work. To some extent one get used to what one has, but I know my next camera will have a built in EVF. 28mm is also no match for 24mm, so I'm also looking for a 24mm 'walkabout' zoom and the NEX 6 16-50mm looks great. Allso considering a Lumix G5, but APS-C, and potentially good kit lens, means the NEX 6 is out in front atm.

Andy



Pick of my LX3 bunch

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