D600 pricing... or what lack of competition means...

To give you a magnitude of what "correct" pricing should be, you may refer to the D300 vs. D700 price difference
Here in the United States the D300 was initially priced at $1800, and the D700 was initially priced at $3000. That's a difference of about $1200.
and now look at the D7K vs. D600 price difference,
Based on the same criteria as above (initial price), here in the United States the price difference is about $900.
 
Pentax k5 new one and D7000 are less than half the price of this camera. I think in terms of price per performance we have gone backwards.
The D600 will have more resolution and better high ISO performance than those smaller sensor cameras have. There are a lot of crybabies in this forum who would put Nikon out of business if they got everything they seem to think they are entitled to, and then where would the check competition puts on prices be?
 
To give you a magnitude of what "correct" pricing should be, you may refer to the D300 vs. D700 price difference
Here in the United States the D300 was initially priced at $1800, and the D700 was initially priced at $3000. That's a difference of about $1200.
and now look at the D7K vs. D600 price difference,
Based on the same criteria as above (initial price), here in the United States the price difference is about $900.
--What you should for is the "price balance" the d300 was at 2/3rds price of the d700 at introduction (world average minus insignificant price variations) and the D700 was constructed in Japan, which means that the difference would be even less if it was constructed at the same factory as D300.... this balance remained for all product life on both products. The D600 (FX version of D7K - or the same relationship as D300/D700), is constructed outside Japan at the same factory as D7K and now costs all over the world more than double the price.... Now speaking of dollar difference is like saying that if a DX was 9100$ and an FX 10000$ (9% difference) ...is the same relevance as a DX costing 400$ and an FX (similarly constructed) ....1300$(!!!!), clearly there is no logic to a person that thinks like that... a MORON's thought ...isn't it?

Theodoros
http://www.fotometria.gr
http://www.fotometriawedding.gr
 
Pentax k5 new one and D7000 are less than half the price of this camera. I think in terms of price per performance we have gone backwards.
The D600 will have more resolution and better high ISO performance than those smaller sensor cameras have. There are a lot of crybabies in this forum who would put Nikon out of business if they got everything they seem to think they are entitled to, and then where would the check competition puts on prices be?
--There is no competition on D600... resolution has nothing to do with pricing or competition, the D3200 is much cheaper than D7K for other reasons than resolution as well as D4 is much more expensive than D800 for similar reasons, a much desired by many D800 with D4 sensor would cost about the same as today's D800 and this would be perfectly acceptable nor anybody ever complained about D700 price being similar to the Canon 5dmkii... now the D600 has too many compromises in it to cost that close to a D800..., especially in Europe where the 2150 vs. 2650 Euros for the D800 is outrageous.

Theodoros
http://www.fotometria.gr
http://www.fotometriawedding.gr
 
To give you a magnitude of what "correct" pricing should be, you may refer to the D300 vs. D700 price difference
Here in the United States the D300 was initially priced at $1800, and the D700 was initially priced at $3000. That's a difference of about $1200.
and now look at the D7K vs. D600 price difference,
Based on the same criteria as above (initial price), here in the United States the price difference is about $900.
--What you should for is the "price balance" the d300 was at 2/3rds price of the d700 at introduction (world average minus insignificant price variations)
Your math is pathetic, just like your ridiculous and hypothetical valuations of features.

First, the math. When the D700 came out the price of the D300 was (and still is) $1700, and since the D700 came out at $3000 it cost 43% more than the D300 and not 33% more which as it so happens correlates with the above cited $900 price difference between the D7000 and D600. While there is currently an instant rebate of $200 here in the United States on the D7000 which ends at the end of September, these sorts of price breaks reflect Nikon adjusting their prices based on demand and not on cost or someone's hypothetical valuation of features (and in the end it is demand that determines price in a free market system).

Second, regarding your valuation of features. Each of us gets to decide how much a feature is worth to us, and some of us will choose to assign lesser or greater values to particular features. The bottom line is that you are only speaking for yourself when you say the D600 is worth half as much as the D800, some would even say the D600 is worth more to them than the D800 because they might value its smaller size and weight more than anything the D800 offers.
and the D700 was constructed in Japan,
Completely irrelevant.
 
Pentax k5 new one and D7000 are less than half the price of this camera. I think in terms of price per performance we have gone backwards.
The D600 will have more resolution and better high ISO performance than those smaller sensor cameras have. There are a lot of crybabies in this forum who would put Nikon out of business if they got everything they seem to think they are entitled to, and then where would the check competition puts on prices be?
resolution has nothing to do with pricing or competition,
I'm replying to the argument that "in terms of price and performance we have gone backwards." As I wrote in my last reply to you, each of us gets to value things according to what we think they are worth. By putting a value on more resolution and better high ISO performance, not to mention the question 135 format versus DX format, most of us don't agree that the D600 should only cost 50% more than the D7000. Personally, I think the D600 is worth twice as much as the D7000; if you think the D7000 is such a great value compared to the D600, then you should just buy a D7000 and take your whining over to DPR's D7000 forum.
especially in Europe where the 2150 vs. 2650 Euros for the D800 is outrageous.
If I were in Europe or England, I wouldn't even consider the D600 over the D800 based on price (first, I prefer the D800 regardless of price; second, I agree with you that the D600 price there seems a bit high). Unless you have a compelling reason to want the D600 over the D800, just get the D800, stop complaining and let market forces work their magic; if you have a compelling reason to prefer the D600 over the D800, then that reason will outweigh the mere 500 Euro savings you get for choosing the D600.
 
To give you a magnitude of what "correct" pricing should be, you may refer to the D300 vs. D700 price difference
Here in the United States the D300 was initially priced at $1800, and the D700 was initially priced at $3000. That's a difference of about $1200.
and now look at the D7K vs. D600 price difference,
Based on the same criteria as above (initial price), here in the United States the price difference is about $900.
--What you should for is the "price balance" the d300 was at 2/3rds price of the d700 at introduction (world average minus insignificant price variations)
Your math is pathetic, just like your ridiculous and hypothetical valuations of features.

First, the math. When the D700 came out the price of the D300 was (and still is) $1700, and since the D700 came out at $3000 it cost 43% more than the D300 and not 33% more which as it so happens correlates with the above cited $900 price difference between the D7000 and D600. While there is currently an instant rebate of $200 here in the United States on the D7000 which ends at the end of September, these sorts of price breaks reflect Nikon adjusting their prices based on demand and not on cost or someone's hypothetical valuation of features (and in the end it is demand that determines price in a free market system).
Since you insist in your moron's logic, deliberately excluding my "world average" and "Europe's" variations, you are now under judge from any sensible reader that knows little about logic...
Second, regarding your valuation of features. Each of us gets to decide how much a feature is worth to us, and some of us will choose to assign lesser or greater values to particular features. The bottom line is that you are only speaking for yourself when you say the D600 is worth half as much as the D800, some would even say the D600 is worth more to them than the D800 because they might value its smaller size and weight more than anything the D800 offers.
Why is it then that you deny my right to have a well reasoned (like other dx vs. other FX) estimation of my own and discuss it with others? Is it because "features that worth different to individuals" means that your stupid judgement should be accepted by all all? Insane logic can only be insane logic... and what logic is... Is written in books by a man called Aristotelles... who is taught in all countries your's included! ...This (what you do) is not logic by rule! It's pure ...moron's insane!
and the D700 was constructed in Japan,
Completely irrelevant.
--.........!!!! So, Nikon made investments outside Japan to increase costs eeeh? ...You certainly have an insane logic moron!

Theodoros
http://www.fotometria.gr
http://www.fotometriawedding.gr
 
Pentax k5 new one and D7000 are less than half the price of this camera. I think in terms of price per performance we have gone backwards.
The D600 will have more resolution and better high ISO performance than those smaller sensor cameras have. There are a lot of crybabies in this forum who would put Nikon out of business if they got everything they seem to think they are entitled to, and then where would the check competition puts on prices be?
resolution has nothing to do with pricing or competition,
I'm replying to the argument that "in terms of price and performance we have gone backwards." As I wrote in my last reply to you, each of us gets to value things according to what we think they are worth. By putting a value on more resolution and better high ISO performance, not to mention the question 135 format versus DX format, most of us don't agree that the D600 should only cost 50% more than the D7000. Personally, I think the D600 is worth twice as much as the D7000; if you think the D7000 is such a great value compared to the D600, then you should just buy a D7000 and take your whining over to DPR's D7000 forum.
especially in Europe where the 2150 vs. 2650 Euros for the D800 is outrageous.
If I were in Europe or England, I wouldn't even consider the D600 over the D800 based on price (first, I prefer the D800 regardless of price; second, I agree with you that the D600 price there seems a bit high). Unless you have a compelling reason to want the D600 over the D800, just get the D800, stop complaining and let market forces work their magic; if you have a compelling reason to prefer the D600 over the D800, then that reason will outweigh the mere 500 Euro savings you get for choosing the D600.
--1. Excluding only a phrase from a sentence in purpose to present it as a sentence, is a well known "method" of trolling which only pathetic maniacs continue to use, ...based on the fact that many morons don't follow threads but are looking for personal attacks to be engaged. ...Again, I suggest to look at logic's rules! ...To your surprise they do exist! ...It's exactly what differentiates humans from morons and animals!

2.You haven't DELIBERATELY replied not even on a simple coma to my original example of "price difference" with regard to "balance"... is your 900$ difference applicable moron? Is it the same if a camera costs 4h and another 13h, the same as one costing 91h and another 100h?

Theodoros

http://www.fotometria.gr
http://www.fotometriawedding.gr
 
WTF are you on about???
--
Fiat Lux
 
If the sensor is contributing $1000 to the retail price then they actually did take about 50% off the rest of the camera price.

It's just that the sensor might not have gotten any cheaper. Maybe it did, and the cost savings on the rest were a bit less. A rip-off? Au contraire.

--
Jaap
 
"features that worth different to individuals" means that your stupid judgement should be accepted by all all?
Ya know jackass, when you put something in quotes and characterize it as something someone else wrote, then it should actually be something they wrote? There is nothing to be gained by arguing with a lunatic, so just go ahead and rant because most of us are dismissing you as a fool.
 
1. Excluding only a phrase from a sentence in purpose to present it as a sentence, is a well known "method" of trolling which only pathetic maniacs continue to use, ...based on the fact that many morons don't follow threads but are looking for personal attacks to be engaged. ...Again, I suggest to look at logic's rules!
I would suggest you take your own advice. It's hard to picture anything that personifies trolling better than the constant stream of personal insults that you hurl at people.

If you "look at logic's rules", you'll see that, when you're losing an argument (like you so frequently do) because your opponent is making much more logical and well reasoned arguments than you are (like pretty much everyone who replies to you doeitmohe does not make you look more logical or your reasoning look any less faulty, to describe your opponents as "pathetic maniacs" or "morons".

You are acting like the things you continually accuse other people of being. When you do this, you lose the debate, by default.

I'd suggest a "cooling off" period. Perhaps if you refrain from all Internet use for a decade or two, you'll have time to reflect and mature a little.

--
Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.

Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
What a rude person. The D600 is fantastic camera and I am seriously looking at it. I have the funds and wifes permission. I was just throwing up an idea for comment thats all. Lets see how this all plays out.
 
One thing is for sure that Nikon and Canon will not bring down the price of FF Bodies to the level of D300s price in near future........they just want to keep the APS- C market alive for amateurs......

--
D.Mukherjee
 
--OK! Let's put it down... when compared to dD800, D600 saves...
1. Lesser body (half metal-half plastic) -14%
2. Construction outside Japan in much larger quantities -12%
3. Lesser shutter mechanism -4%
4. Lesser sensor -2%
5. No CF card -3%
6. lesser AF -4%
7. Lesser frame options (no 1.2xcrop or 5x4) -3%
8. Much lesser metering sensor -4%
9. No power aperture control in LV -2%
10. USB2 for USB3 -2%

What does this adds up? =50%...!!!!
Thank you for posting this!! But you missed a few things:
11. No 1.2x crop: -5%
12. Less regulation of continuous shooting speed: -15%
13. Worse white balance bracketing: -7%
14. Fewer Buttons: -12%
15. Less paint used to paint "D600" vs. "D800": -4%
16. No viewfinder cover: -14%

I re-added the numbers; with my corrections, it turns out that in fact Nikon should be paying customers to take the D600.

Astounding. This is an important analysis that you have performed.
 
If the sensor is contributing $1000 to the retail price then they actually did take about 50% off the rest of the camera price.

It's just that the sensor might not have gotten any cheaper. Maybe it did, and the cost savings on the rest were a bit less. A rip-off? Au contraire.

--
Jaap
--Sensor and electronics contribute for about 8 to 14% in overall camera construction cost, given that both sensors are of leading technology but the D800's is of more complexity and edge technology a 2-3% of cost affection is what should be considered sensible... body construction and manufacturing are the 2 factors that affect DSLR cost, more than anything, especially if part of the frame is injection moulded the cost that can be saved is huge.

Theodoros
http://www.fotometria.gr
http://www.fotometriawedding.gr
 
--OK! Let's put it down... when compared to dD800, D600 saves...
1. Lesser body (half metal-half plastic) -14%
2. Construction outside Japan in much larger quantities -12%
3. Lesser shutter mechanism -4%
4. Lesser sensor -2%
5. No CF card -3%
6. lesser AF -4%
7. Lesser frame options (no 1.2xcrop or 5x4) -3%
8. Much lesser metering sensor -4%
9. No power aperture control in LV -2%
10. USB2 for USB3 -2%

What does this adds up? =50%...!!!!
Thank you for posting this!! But you missed a few things:
11. No 1.2x crop: -5%
12. Less regulation of continuous shooting speed: -15%
13. Worse white balance bracketing: -7%
14. Fewer Buttons: -12%
15. Less paint used to paint "D600" vs. "D800": -4%
16. No viewfinder cover: -14%

I re-added the numbers; with my corrections, it turns out that in fact Nikon should be paying customers to take the D600.

Astounding. This is an important analysis that you have performed.
--LOL..., they have been included in the above general categories that model the cost affection, OTOH your estimation is a bit on the very high side.... the camera should be treated in cost the way D7K is treated allowing for the extra cost of FX electronics and viewfinder....

Theodoros
http://www.fotometria.gr
http://www.fotometriawedding.gr
 
One thing is for sure that Nikon and Canon will not bring down the price of FF Bodies to the level of D300s price in near future........they just want to keep the APS- C market alive for amateurs......

--
D.Mukherjee
--I don't thing they care if it's APS-c or FF, you are right that APS-c is cheaper and thus can be applied well on the mass market, while FF is more appealing to enthusiasts and pros., the thing is that this product is much overpriced because it lacks competition....

Theodoros
http://www.fotometria.gr
http://www.fotometriawedding.gr
 

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