GH3: wrong direction! Bulkier & heavier ....

Everyone is seeing a bigger camera overall : I'm seeing a better grip for sure, and the shoulders raised to meet the horrible hump. That's all.
I'm sure the 'feel' will be bigger and handling better than GH2.

Ulfric M Douglas said:

Everyone is seeing a bigger camera overall : I'm seeing a better grip for sure, and the shoulders raised to meet the horrible hump. That's all.
I'm sure the 'feel' will be bigger and handling better than GH2.

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Agree with this, Panasonic seem to doing to the GH3 what they just did with the G5 ie increase the grip size for better handling without altering the overall dims much.

I find the GH2 grip just a bit too small when fitted with the 12-35 lens so the GH3 should just be about be spot on.

If the new sensor with 100ISO setting can really up the low ISO IQ then my GH2 will be on ebay.

larsbc said:

TimK5 said:

The new GH3 is bulkier and heavier.

What is Panasonic trying to achieve? Trying to turn a m43 cam into a fat ass DSLR?

The only to buy m43s is the small size and weight. It could be a fatal move to sacrifice the only USP!

Why would anybody buy a DSLR sized cam with inferior performance (in particular sensor performance). Beats me...

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Until I see a lot more photos of it in use, or see its dimensional specs, I wouldn't assume that it's as big as a "fat ass DSLR." I handled an OM-D yesterday and I have to see that its control layout felt cramped, and I have smaller-than-average hands. Something a bit larger with a better control layout would be of value to me.

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Basically I agree. Whereas I felt right at home with the G1 from the get go, the E-M5 felt rather awkward from the beginning. This wasn't entirely unexpected. I already had a sense I would prefer the ergonomics of the G1 (and successors) with a real grip. Nevertheless, I was a bit disappointed. On the other hand, things have gotten noteably better as I have become used to the camera. It took me a couple of months but now I feel at home with the E-M5 and am not really bothered by the way it handles any more. This might be worth keeping in mind if you are considering getting one.

larsbc said:

As for it being too large, well, lens size has a LOT to do with the size of a camera system. I typically travel with a super wide zoom, normal zoom, a fast prime, and sometimes a tele zoom. Looking solely at the lenses, I see a huge benefit in using micro four-thirds as my travel system.

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Yes, that's the main point for me as well. Within the limits we are talking about here, body size isn't all that important to me and a slightly bigger body may have some advantages in addition to the obvious downsides.

larsbc said:

I have no problem if the GH3 is a little bit bigger than the GH2. It wouldn't negate the value of the m43 for me. And if it provided a more comfortable control layout and/or more direct controls, then I'd actually prefer it over the GH2 (or OM-D).

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Ron Outdoors said:

A little more grip then the GH2 to wrap my hand around is fine with me. Plus, hopefully some more space for a better layout of the buttons. Hard to pick up the GH2 without pressing a button. But, more then a couple ounces of additional weight would be a negative.
--
http://www.ronhartman.net

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I've stopped thinking in terms of "equivalent" focal lengths on m43. 25mm is what it is, and what it might be similar to on some other format doesn't matter to me any more. We need to learn what to expect from our current equipment, not keep mapping it to the old. No one refers to their 50mm FF lens as "equivalent to 80mm on MF."

And I'll choose ergos over smaller size any day. Aren't you glad I don't get to specify how all cameras are designed. I'm glad you don't, too.

I am concerned a out weight, but that really has more to do with lenses than the body once you build a serious kit. A GH3 with, say, 4 native lenses will still be much lighter than even a cheap Rebel with 4 matching FOV lenses, and dramatically smaller and lighter than a 7D with the same lenses. And the design and build quality of the GH3 appears much closer to the 7D than to a Rebel.

TimK5 said:

onlooker said:

TimK5 said:

What is Panasonic trying to achieve?

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Better ergonomics?

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I'd sacrifice ergonomics for small size and weight any day.

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I've stopped thinking in terms of "equivalent" focal lengths on m43. 25mm is what it is, and what it might be similar to on some other format doesn't matter to me any more. We need to learn what to expect from our current equipment, not keep mapping it to the old. No one refers to their 50mm FF lens as "equivalent to 80mm on MF."

Pixnat2 said:

The GH3 is surely bigger than anything in m4/3 until now. I think it can't be called "micro" again, as it has a size of an entry level or mid level DSLR.

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You are seriously misinformed if you think this is as big as "mid level DSLR." Have you ever actually held a 7D or D7000? They're huge by comparison to a GH2, whereas the GH3 is a bit bigger than a GH2.

Even compared to a Rebel, the camera will be considerably thinner due to the lack of a mirror box, and the lenses are much, much smaller, too.

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I've stopped thinking in terms of "equivalent" focal lengths on m43. 25mm is what it is, and what it might be similar to on some other format doesn't matter to me any more. We need to learn what to expect from our current equipment, not keep mapping it to the old. No one refers to their 50mm FF lens as "equivalent to 80mm on MF."

Do you seriously think the GH3 is anywhere near as big as your 5D? Are you drunk?

Frankly, I don't believe you own a 5D if you think it's "almost the same size as a GH2." The GH2 is significantly smaller than my 50D, which is a fair bit smaller than a 7D (don't own one, but have rented one), which is smaller than a 5D by a good bit. Yes, I've used the 5D and 5D Mk II. A buddy owns both.

leicalight said:

leicalight said:

But this camera is aimed at enthusiats photographers who like to have something more consistent in their hands. I don't see any problem with that. As others have said, there's an option for eveyone now in m4/3.

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sorry can you explain why i must buy a small sensor camera with a body almost big like a FF ?

my 5D MII coupled with 28mm 1.8 , 35mm f2 or 40mm f2.8 has almost same size as my GH2 , anyway i need a bag for carry them (both) and GH3 is also bigger then GH2

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I've stopped thinking in terms of "equivalent" focal lengths on m43. 25mm is what it is, and what it might be similar to on some other format doesn't matter to me any more. We need to learn what to expect from our current equipment, not keep mapping it to the old. No one refers to their 50mm FF lens as "equivalent to 80mm on MF."

Bob Meyer said:

Do you seriously think the GH3 is anywhere near as big as your 5D? Are you drunk?

Frankly, I don't believe you own a 5D if you think it's "almost the same size as a GH2." The GH2 is significantly smaller than my 50D, which is a fair bit smaller than a 7D (don't own one, but have rented one), which is smaller than a 5D by a good bit. Yes, I've used the 5D and 5D Mk II. A buddy owns both.

leicalight said:

Bob Meyer said:

But this camera is aimed at enthusiats photographers who like to have something more consistent in their hands. I don't see any problem with that. As others have said, there's an option for eveyone now in m4/3.

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sorry can you explain why i must buy a small sensor camera with a body almost big like a FF ?

my 5D MII coupled with 28mm 1.8 , 35mm f2 or 40mm f2.8 has almost same size as my GH2 , anyway i need a bag for carry them (both) and GH3 is also bigger then GH2

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--

I've stopped thinking in terms of "equivalent" focal lengths on m43. 25mm is what it is, and what it might be similar to on some other format doesn't matter to me any more. We need to learn what to expect from our current equipment, not keep mapping it to the old. No one refers to their 50mm FF lens as "equivalent to 80mm on MF."

Click to expand...

--

I've stopped thinking in terms of "equivalent" focal lengths on m43. 25mm is what it is, and what it might be similar to on some other format doesn't matter to me any more. We need to learn what to expect from our current equipment, not keep mapping it to the old. No one refers to their 50mm FF lens as "equivalent to 80mm on MF."

dr_elis said:

... but at some stage (IMHO rather sooner than later) Pana needs to introduce a

GHx series: DSLR-like styling - the best they can do for video and stills - the total solution!

G(3/5) series: Nex-6/7-like with integrated EVF - the best they can do for stills
GX series: GF1/GX1-like styling, no integrated EVF, but uncompromised for stills
GF series: GF5-like, the entry model

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I think it's far more likely the GX line will grow an EVF than the G series will become rangefinder styled.

dr_elis said:

So far Pana was slow to make progress with the GH line, crippled the G(3/5) series even for stills, didn´t really excite with the GX1 (being crippled for stills), only the GF5 fits into this marketing strategy. A line-up of just 4 models in which the top 3 provide top performance for taking stills (all featuring the latest sensors, all multi-aspect etc.): Please!

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I don't think they were "slow." Top of the line bodies in any vendor's line don't get updated nearly as often as lower level ones. That's true whether you're talking Canon (compare frequency of Rebel updates, xxS updates, 5D and 1D, Nikon, Sony (look at how long it took Sony to introduce a new FF body) or anyone else.

And I have no clue what you mean by crippled for the G3 or G5. The G3 does what is was designed to do very well. It's a small camera with built-in EVF, but geared to size rather than features and controls. The G5 moves the balance a bit the other way. Both are very good cameras. Ditto the GX. The people that own them seem to be very happy with them. Just because Panasonic didn't build a camera specifically to suit you doesn't mean it's crippled. And just because Pansonic's marketing strategy isn't what you think it should be doesn't make it wrong. The universe doesn't, you may be surprised to hear, revolve around you. And Panasonic, I suspect, does significantly more market research than you do.

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I've stopped thinking in terms of "equivalent" focal lengths on m43. 25mm is what it is, and what it might be similar to on some other format doesn't matter to me any more. We need to learn what to expect from our current equipment, not keep mapping it to the old. No one refers to their 50mm FF lens as "equivalent to 80mm on MF."

Bob Meyer said:

You are seriously misinformed if you think this is as big as "mid level DSLR." Have you ever actually held a 7D or D7000? They're huge by comparison to a GH2, whereas the GH3 is a bit bigger than a GH2.

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A little bigger than the GH2? Mhuahahaha :-D

It's not really smaller than my E-5 about the size of a K-7
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Cheers,

Frederic
http://azurphoto.com/blog/

--
Cheers,

Frederic
http://azurphoto.com/blog/

from someone who's apparently never handled a mid-range, semi-pro caliber ASP-C DSLR like the D7000 or 7D. Or even the 50D / 60D.

Mk7 said:

Thanks for the work. I pray your calculations are off.

Maybe Panasonic plan to market this tank as a 4/3 camera. There's not much "micro" about it.

I fear it's creeping too close to APS-C cams in size and price, just like original 4/3 cams.

I hope those sweet lenses provide the DOF that videographers want. That may be the saving grace.

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I've stopped thinking in terms of "equivalent" focal lengths on m43. 25mm is what it is, and what it might be similar to on some other format doesn't matter to me any more. We need to learn what to expect from our current equipment, not keep mapping it to the old. No one refers to their 50mm FF lens as "equivalent to 80mm on MF."

what they're talking about.

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I've stopped thinking in terms of "equivalent" focal lengths on m43. 25mm is what it is, and what it might be similar to on some other format doesn't matter to me any more. We need to learn what to expect from our current equipment, not keep mapping it to the old. No one refers to their 50mm FF lens as "equivalent to 80mm on MF."

Pixnat2 said:

Bob Meyer said:

You are seriously misinformed if you think this is as big as "mid level DSLR." Have you ever actually held a 7D or D7000? They're huge by comparison to a GH2, whereas the GH3 is a bit bigger than a GH2.

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A little bigger than the GH2? Mhuahahaha :-D

It's not really smaller than my E-5 about the size of a K-7

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You realize that it has the vertical grip attached in that shot, right?

I think the width/height dimensions will be about the same as a small DSLR, but the depth will be much less. And of course ... the lenses.

So far, what we had seen in these early GH3 videos, the video quality in general is nowhere where we thought it will be. Let's wait until next week to form some more assured opinions, however.

Anders W wrote:
[snip]

Anders W said:

Anders W said:

Until I see a lot more photos of it in use, or see its dimensional specs, I wouldn't assume that it's as big as a "fat ass DSLR." I handled an OM-D yesterday and I have to see that its control layout felt cramped,

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I just noticed an error in my original post. I meant: "I have to say," not "I have to see."

[snip]

Anders W said:

On the other hand, things have gotten noteably better as I have become used to the camera. It took me a couple of months but now I feel at home with the E-M5 and am not really bothered by the way it handles any more. This might be worth keeping in mind if you are considering getting one.

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Yes, that is worth knowing, because I was, in fact, wondering if I'd be able to get used to it.

Another thing I noticed is a slight lag between a click of the aperture adjustment wheel, and seeing the aperture value change in the viewfinder. With my Panasonic and DSLRs, I've never experienced such a lag. Does your OM-D do that?

Take the grip off and it * magically * becomes much smaller.

Even with the grip, the picture you post proves nothing. Post a picture of a D7000 with vertical grip next to it, and you'll have something to talk about.

Suggestion: go to community college and take a course in analysis, and another in logic. You seem to lack knowledge and capability in both.
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I've stopped thinking in terms of "equivalent" focal lengths on m43. 25mm is what it is, and what it might be similar to on some other format doesn't matter to me any more. We need to learn what to expect from our current equipment, not keep mapping it to the old. No one refers to their 50mm FF lens as "equivalent to 80mm on MF."

... than posting rubbish thoughts like this.
--
http://www.pbase.com/morepix

This GH3 in this size is exactly what is needed in M43 to attract more DSLR users to switch, as DSLRs start to be replaced by MILCs. There is definitely a gap in spite of all the existing models, i.e. a proper size to avoid any compromise in handling as required for serious work. All the fantastic lenses, the excellent video capability, would be wasted if the majority of serious enthusiasts and pros ignore M43 due to something as silly as a size that cramps style and compromises the shooting experience. With more fast and serious lenses like the 75mm f/1.8, the 12-35mm f/2.8 and especially the soon to be announced longer zooms, this size is necessary.

Now, if they could just put the E-M5 sensor in it and add its IBIS, it would be near perfect! Maybe the next OMD

TimK5 said:

The only to buy m43s is the small size and weight. It could be a fatal move to sacrifice the only USP!

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There are smaller MFT cameras. I would love a GH3 with 1" taller body then the one projected in rumors, so my fingers wouldn't wiggle aimlessly beneath the camera, and instead could provide support and balance when a longer lens is used. GHx is not pocketable anyway. Why not make it more ergonomic? It doesn't have to be considerably heavier, just better fit the hand of a grownup.