RX1 vs X100

With the RX1..... I think they missed out to give it some soul. I'm not sure if shooting with it will give you the same warm feeling you get when shooting a Fuji X100.

What do you think?
I think that is a crock of s..t

My x100 became cold and soulless as soon I ejected the battery. Or was the soul seen in the digital readout projected onto the ovf?

Keep your soul. A full frame compact with a zeiss lens and full external manual controls is the best thing to happen to pocket photography since the advent of 135mm.

It's expensive, but let's not beat around the bush.
I agree with the comment about 'soul' completely. The x100 and Xp1 are a joy to use. This new Sony is just a VERY expensive point and shoot. Any camera that you have to hold out in front of you and squint at a little TV screen to try to compose a shot isn't worth more than a few hundred bucks to me. The very expensive optional OVF is as high tech as a 1940's Retina.

The size of the sensor is irrelevant. A larger sensor is only important if it results in better image quality. I seriously doubt the IQ of this Sony will be significantly better than the x100 and probably won't be as good as the XP1. No Sony has been yet.

Besides, it won't fit in any pocket. What good is a 'compact' camera if you have to carry it in a camera bag? If you must carry a bag, why not go with an interchangeable lens system? This is just a status symbol, not a significant camera.
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MrFlash
The sour grapes here and elsewhere over the RX1 is incredible. Wipe off the Sony name and replace it with Fujifilm and everyone would be praising both the camera and Fujifilm. Very transparent. The X100 had a dated (Sony designed and made) sensor when it was "new" and we are supposed to believe that Sony's latest sensor is somehow not as good? More sour grapes.
--

DISCLAIMER: The text written herein is meant to provide the opinion/s and/or suggestion/s of the author. No statement herein is meant to be considered law of the land, representative of any party or group, and or a quote from any party or group. Neither is any statement in the contained text meant to be taken as scripture, doctrine, or all encompassing of an entire populous or any groups or individuals therein.
 
Keep your soul. A full frame compact with a zeiss lens and full external manual controls is the best thing to happen to pocket photography since the advent of 135mm.
Not at all because as much as the RX1 is wonderful, small and compact, it is not a pocket camera.

I think that the title you are suggesting goes to the RX100, a real tiny pocketable camera with a large sensor, great Zeiss lens and IQ that comes very close to a dSLR. It is also produced by Sony and not less revolutionary then the RX1.

Moti

--
http://www.pixpix.be
http://www.musicalpix.com (under construction)
 
I don't get the "state of the art masterpiece in technology".

The Sony FF sensor is nothing new. Zeiss has been making a 35mm f2 lens long before I was born and that clip on OVF is right out of the 1940s!

It seems to me that the only thing 'new' is the concept. Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Fuji, all of them could have made this camera. I suspect they did not, because they, unlike Sony, are companies that have decades of experience in still photography. They understand the needs of photographers. They probably just can't figure out who needs or would buy such a thing. I can't either.

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MrFlash
 
I have no doubts the the image quality of the Sony will be better. It might be the best image quality of any full frame camera and that clearly means it's better than Fuji's current offerings. I'm talking about the process of picture taking.
It would be a dream camera if it would be in the body of a X100 or X1Pro.

I have made a mistake by just posting the last sentence of my article. No wonder it was misleading. Here is the rest:

The Missed Opportunity – Second Thoughts about the upcoming Sony RX1
Posted on 12. September 2012

When I saw first leaked images of the Sony RX1 a couple of days ago I was amazed. Finally somebody did it. To put a large sensor in a compact camera. To me it was no surprise that Sony did it first. Either Sony or Fuji would be first I guessed. They both have fresh ideas and they both do not need to protect their DSLR business.

First I need to say something about my Fuji X100. I have it for more than a year now and still every time I shoot with it I enjoy the feeling. I love the simple body, the dials, the optical viewfinder and the completely silent operation of this camera. There is a japanese expression for “pursuit of perfection” but I forgot how it goes. Anyway the Fuji X100 is exactly that. It makes you smile when you use it.

I’m curious if the Sony RX1 will be the same. I think Sony did a great job by putting a full frame sensor in a compact camera. They took a lot of ideas from Fuji like the leave shutter in the lens, the function button or the exposure compensation dial but they made missed out an opportunity and here is why:

No viewfinder! It was obvious from the first leaked image that the RX1 will have no internal viewfinder but for me this is the biggest reason not to buy it. I know there are add on viewfinders ( optically or electronically ) but where is the sense in that? To make the camera ultra small and than add an external viewfinder which makes the whole camera a lot bigger than it would be with an integrated viewfinder. And shooting with the screen on the back simply does not feel the same. I have doubts that potential buyers will shoot it without a viewfinder.

No shutter speed dial. This seems not to be a big point but I think that people considering such a camera ( and I’m one of those ) prefer to change to panorama mode by using the menu. Why have a dial at all if it sit’s in A-Mode 90% of the time? The shooting experience would be different with a shutter dial. Sony should have copied this from Fuji or Leica as well.

Don’t get me wrong. The Sony RX1 is a great camera. It is a game changer and I’m convinced that it will change the camera industry. It will probably have the best image quality of any digital camera below medium format thanks to the integrated lens. It most likely will focus a lot faster than the Fuji cameras. And there will be no problems with third party RAW converters too.

The two things I don’t like about the camera don’t mean that it is a poor camera. It’s far from that. But it shows maybe Sony biggest problem: They have all the technology to create an outstanding product but Sony lacks the deep understanding of traditional camera design that companies like Fuji or Leica have. If you look at the NEX line you can say that this is also a big advantage of Sony. They are able to think outside of the box. I love the NEX line.

With the RX1 Sony has created a “state of the art masterpiece in technology” – body, it’s a tour de force without doubt but I think they missed out to give it some soul. I’m not sure if shooting with it will give you the same warm feeling you get when shooting a Fuji X100.

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best regards

Joachim
http://www.littlebigtravelingphotographer.com
 
The art is to put it all together in a body the size of an old Canon Ixus. I really doubt that it is easy to do that.

It is a statement of what a company is able to do. I just wished that they included a viewfinder and a shutter dial to make it a joy to use too.

--
best regards

Joachim
http://www.littlebigtravelingphotographer.com
 
Seriously, I think they could have had a slam dunk has they put out the NEX-7 with a full-frame sensor (which they may do in the not-to-distant future anyway). Even if they had gone with a fixed-lens, but the same body/ergonomics/EVF as the NEX-7, they would have really impressed a lot of people. That would have been more of a home-run IMO.
Thats pretty much my feeling, its amazing to see but really I think the price and the fixed lens mean its ultimately more of a rich mans plaything with very rich pro's and the odd street tog likely to be the only serious users. The X100's much lower price combined with the OVF and style really made it an attractive second camera for alot of people.

As it is I don't think any of the competision is really going to be sweating over the RX1 much and may well be thanking Sony for giving them a headtstart on possible FF mirrorless devolpments.

As you say I think a slightly larger version of the NEX 7 with a FF sensor really would have put the cat amoung the pigeons. Even if the same 35mm ziess lens was all that was on offer at launch I think Sony would have been looking at a massive coup over there rivals.

Even at RX1 at a more modest price under $2000 might have been a pretty big seller but I really doubt its going to be at $2800.
 
I don't get the "state of the art masterpiece in technology".

The Sony FF sensor is nothing new. Zeiss has been making a 35mm f2 lens long before I was born and that clip on OVF is right out of the 1940s!

It seems to me that the only thing 'new' is the concept. Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Fuji, all of them could have made this camera. I suspect they did not, because they, unlike Sony, are companies that have decades of experience in still photography. They understand the needs of photographers. They probably just can't figure out who needs or would buy such a thing. I can't either.

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MrFlash
Wow, the sour grapes that the Sony has caused is incredible. Just drenched in bitterness. Fujifilm understands photographers? Oh. My. God. The list of problems with the X100 caused DPR to add an entire page to their review. Yes they fixed some of them (but not all) but if Fujifilm truly understood photographers, these simple mistakes would not have appeared.

Even today people continue to shout at Fujiflilm to fix some basic problems with their cameras. Look at the problems with auto ISO and min. shutter speed, the broken histogram in manual mode, etc..

If Fujifilm really understood photographers, I doubt that they'd be languishing down in 8th place for market share. ;)

--

DISCLAIMER: The text written herein is meant to provide the opinion/s and/or suggestion/s of the author. No statement herein is meant to be considered law of the land, representative of any party or group, and or a quote from any party or group. Neither is any statement in the contained text meant to be taken as scripture, doctrine, or all encompassing of an entire populous or any groups or individuals therein.
 
Within the world of niche camera markets, the RX1 can immediately claim a sizable one: deep-pocketed camera buyers (a group not limited to "photographers") looking for their latest piece of sexy trophy gear with bragging rights. That group alone can probably keep the RX1 production lines humming.

Now, if the IQ of the RX1 actually delivers on the promise of its pedigree parts and specs, then we're probably talking backorder forever.

That said, I think Sony made two hugely bone-headed design decisions with this camera:

First, to make it minimal to the max, there's no VF of any type on a camera that virtually demands one. So now, instead of a slightly larger camera with a built-in VF, you have a slighty smaller one that needs a clunky and expensive add-on VF, making the camera bigger than it would have been had they simply designed it with a VF in the first place.

Second, you can only get to your shutter speeds through menus, another eye-rollingly dumb decision by Sony for a camera like this. What should have been the shutter speed dial on the top plate is instead a dial for choosing P&S features like "Scene Mode."
 
I don't get the "state of the art masterpiece in technology".
Well, it is a technological breakthrough by all means. Pity you are not able or refuse to see it.
The Sony FF sensor is nothing new. Zeiss has been making a 35mm f2 lens long before I was born and that clip on OVF is right out of the 1940s!
Is it? You are completely missing the point. We talk about a cmera concept and not lens only. I can't remember Zeiss producing a digital camera in the 40th but I might be wrong...
It seems to me that the only thing 'new' is the concept. Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Fuji, all of them could have made this camera.
I suspect they did not, because they, unlike Sony, are companies that have decades of experience in still photography. They understand the needs of photographers. They probably just can't figure out who needs or would buy such a thing. I can't either.
Well, here you have a point although it is completely off topic. being a professional photographer myself, I can agree to that. This is also the answer to all those who wonder why most pros use these makes. When I steered taking photos with my x100, I came to the conclusion that non of their design team had a photograper with them, otherwise they wouldn't have done so many stupid mistakes.

All that said, the RX1 is a tate of art camera. who really needs it? Very few IMHO but this is a different issue.

Moti

--
http://www.pixpix.be
http://www.musicalpix.com (under construction)
 
that is what I thought.

viewfinder and shutter dial and it would be a real winner. maybe it's best to trink some tea and wait. I have no doubt that Fuji will follow. Maybe with a fullframe X100.

--
best regards

Joachim
http://www.littlebigtravelingphotographer.com
 
Second, you can only get to your shutter speeds through menus, another eye-rollingly dumb decision by Sony for a camera like this. What should have been the shutter speed dial on the top plate is instead a dial for choosing P&S features like "Scene Mode."
Really? There are two control dials on the back of the camera. I'd be willing to bet you the price of the camera that in Shutter Priority and Manual modes, one of them will control shutter speed directly, without having to go anywhere near a menu. Very possibly in P mode also, but I'm not putting any money on that one. The VAST majority of today's cameras, up to the most powerful DSLRs on the market, take this approach. I realize how much some of us like the shutter speed dial on the top plate, but of all of the controls, this is probably the one I use the least and putting it on a dial is more than good enough for me. For that matter, all of my non-Fuji cameras control aperture via a similar control dial and I adjust aperture all the time, almost always shooting in aperture priority. Its never bothered me. If anything, I'd rather have a direct control for ISO without having to push a button, something that only Ricoh allows for among the cameras I've owned recently. The lack of a shutter speed dial is not a big deal to me at all. And having a mode dial is, because a lot of them include slots for a custom setting or two and that's a great way to move between them.

-Ray
-------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/collections/72157626204295198/
 
I think this will really depend on seeing samples. There appear to only be a few out there.

Never been a huge fan of Sony output (default IQ look), but who knows. This is a new beast and pretty much any modern camera can make great stuff.

The 3 samples I can find do have very nice DoF though...

Ergonomics are another thing and for the most part something I am usually willing to ignore (albeit I absolutely love my X-Pro1 handling)...

--
Matt Fahrner
http://boinkphoto.com
 
First, to make it minimal to the max, there's no VF of any type on a camera that virtually demands one. So now, instead of a slightly larger camera with a built-in VF, you have a slighty smaller one that needs a clunky and expensive add-on VF, making the camera bigger than it would have been had they simply designed it with a VF in the first place.

Second, you can only get to your shutter speeds through menus, another eye-rollingly dumb decision by Sony for a camera like this. What should have been the shutter speed dial on the top plate is instead a dial for choosing P&S features like "Scene Mode."
They will obviously have thought about it and decided not to. It's not conceivable that neither of these things occurred to them.

I think OVF lovers would be surprised how many people are happy with the LCD. And for those people, adding a VF makes it bigger. The Zeiss OVF are beautiful, I've seen them and they are a work of art. Though very expensive. The EVF will probably be ugly as can be, but very good. It's not a choice I would have made, but it's also probably not a mistake overall.

The shutter speed dial is a non-issue IMO. This is just not the kind of camera you frequently need to set the shutter speed on, absolutely no-one will be shooting sports with it for example. Almost everyone will shoot in A mode with Auto-ISO and a minimum shutter speed setting.

I could see myself with one of these and the Zeiss OVF.
 
I could see myself with one of these and the Zeiss OVF.
Actually I just found a UK price £2800 - plus around £400 for the Zeiss viewfinder and £100 for the hood. Pity because one never knows what it's going to land in the UK at. Fuji manage to make it almost hit the exchange rate. Sony and Canon make it £1 = $1.

Probably more than I can afford at the moment. Be interesting to see what Leica announces in the next few days. If they can manage a FF RF body for £3000 (which is my rough guess from the rumors) then that might be a better choice, because I can put a 35 f2 Biogon for £800.
 
I love the idea of a FF mirrorless camera with a great sensor.

I could pay the $3000. However I won't add an external viewfinder and won't rely on a serious camera without one.

My LX5 brought me back to photography and I did buy its external VF which now sits in a drawer completely unused as it makes the camera ergonomics simply ridiculous.

I still occasionally will carry my LX5 instead of my X100 or my XPro 1 but not if I really anticipate taking any pictures. And while I was happy to pay $500 for that type of camera, if I am going to spend $3000, I would want to be able to actually use it.

Perry
 
Bravo Sony for devising and producing the RX1

Sure, too overpriced, no built-in EVF or OVF, no shutter speed dial and looks to me to be a bit too small

BUT

If Fuji ran with the idea of the RX1 and made it 'their way' with OVF/EVF (with X-E1 EVF), 'proper' speed dial, 24MP FF Xtrans sensor, a f/1.4 version of the lens ...

THAT would be a camera ... . Guess it would have to be X200 Pro

Hey, its nice to dream
 
I have order the Rx1, and I can't wait. I am upgrading my GH2 to the new Gh3, and the RX1 will be with me all the time.

The image quality will be 100 times superior to the X100.
I don't get the "state of the art masterpiece in technology".

The Sony FF sensor is nothing new. Zeiss has been making a 35mm f2 lens long before I was born and that clip on OVF is right out of the 1940s!

It seems to me that the only thing 'new' is the concept. Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Fuji, all of them could have made this camera. I suspect they did not, because they, unlike Sony, are companies that have decades of experience in still photography. They understand the needs of photographers. They probably just can't figure out who needs or would buy such a thing. I can't either.

--
MrFlash
Wow, the sour grapes that the Sony has caused is incredible. Just drenched in bitterness. Fujifilm understands photographers? Oh. My. God. The list of problems with the X100 caused DPR to add an entire page to their review. Yes they fixed some of them (but not all) but if Fujifilm truly understood photographers, these simple mistakes would not have appeared.

Even today people continue to shout at Fujiflilm to fix some basic problems with their cameras. Look at the problems with auto ISO and min. shutter speed, the broken histogram in manual mode, etc..

If Fujifilm really understood photographers, I doubt that they'd be languishing down in 8th place for market share. ;)

--

DISCLAIMER: The text written herein is meant to provide the opinion/s and/or suggestion/s of the author. No statement herein is meant to be considered law of the land, representative of any party or group, and or a quote from any party or group. Neither is any statement in the contained text meant to be taken as scripture, doctrine, or all encompassing of an entire populous or any groups or individuals therein.
 
I have order the Rx1, and I can't wait. I am upgrading my GH2 to the new Gh3, and the RX1 will be with me all the time.

The image quality will be 100 times superior to the X100.
Wow - 100 times superior? I'm impressed!
 
100 times better?? Hee Hee. Right. I'm not sure it will be ANY better. Twice the pixels. But that is probably the only 'improvement'. We all know that pixel count does not directly relate to IQ. It has approx. the same pixel density. It will probably produce the same old ugly Sony colors.

So if you are going to regularly print bigger than say 11x14" then the difference in pixel count will start to matter. Otherwise it won't make any difference all. The current FF Sony sensor is not as good as the XP1 in terms of noise or dynamic range. Where is this IQ improvement going to come from?
I have order the Rx1, and I can't wait. I am upgrading my GH2 to the new Gh3, and the RX1 will be with me all the time.

The image quality will be 100 times superior to the X100.
I don't get the "state of the art masterpiece in technology".

The Sony FF sensor is nothing new. Zeiss has been making a 35mm f2 lens long before I was born and that clip on OVF is right out of the 1940s!

It seems to me that the only thing 'new' is the concept. Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Fuji, all of them could have made this camera. I suspect they did not, because they, unlike Sony, are companies that have decades of experience in still photography. They understand the needs of photographers. They probably just can't figure out who needs or would buy such a thing. I can't either.

--
MrFlash
Wow, the sour grapes that the Sony has caused is incredible. Just drenched in bitterness. Fujifilm understands photographers? Oh. My. God. The list of problems with the X100 caused DPR to add an entire page to their review. Yes they fixed some of them (but not all) but if Fujifilm truly understood photographers, these simple mistakes would not have appeared.

Even today people continue to shout at Fujiflilm to fix some basic problems with their cameras. Look at the problems with auto ISO and min. shutter speed, the broken histogram in manual mode, etc..

If Fujifilm really understood photographers, I doubt that they'd be languishing down in 8th place for market share. ;)

--

DISCLAIMER: The text written herein is meant to provide the opinion/s and/or suggestion/s of the author. No statement herein is meant to be considered law of the land, representative of any party or group, and or a quote from any party or group. Neither is any statement in the contained text meant to be taken as scripture, doctrine, or all encompassing of an entire populous or any groups or individuals therein.
--
MrFlash
 

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