Photo storage

Kees Raats · Jan 20, 2003

--
Good morning,

Is there a posibility to wright data direct from the camera's firewire or usb-port to a portable harddisk? I ordered my SD-9 with a 256Mb card but I can store maybe 30 photo's on it(I think). I've read about x-drive or image tank but that is more costly than just a 2.5" hd in a firewire or usb case.

I'm new to all this so maybe some one has a nice cheap idea how to backup te photo's.

Thanks from a new SD-9 user

Laurence Matson · Jan 20, 2003

Kees,

This is theoretically possible. However, my experience is that the firewire plug on the camera or the firewire cable will become loose in time, and this connection will not work as well. You would be better off getting a firewire card reader, which can be hot linked to a laptop or computer for faster downloads. The USB 1.1 link is too slow to be practicable with this file size. You will spend many long evenings watching the bits transfer. Geir has indicated that the later builds of the camera have better firewire plugs. Still, I would use this as a second option. In a studio setting, I also imagine it would be better with two cards rather than being bound to a cable.

Laurence

Kees Raats said:
--
Good morning,

Is there a posibility to wright data direct from the camera's
firewire or usb-port to a portable harddisk? I ordered my SD-9 with
a 256Mb card but I can store maybe 30 photo's on it(I think). I've
read about x-drive or image tank but that is more costly than just
a 2.5" hd in a firewire or usb case.
I'm new to all this so maybe some one has a nice cheap idea how to
backup te photo's.

Thanks from a new SD-9 user

Kees Raats · Jan 20, 2003

Laurence thanks for the reply,
but I think I set up the question wrong.

What I want is to shoot photo's till my card is full, than connect the disk and copy the photo's to that disk. So I can format the CF in camera and continu shoot images. I don't know if there is software in the camera to transport the images to the disk. The possibility of connecting the disk toe the camera was in my mind but realised what you wrote that the connection is to fragile for long term use.

Kees

Hope to get my camera soon (they say I have to wait 3 weeks)

Laurence Matson said:
This is theoretically possible. However, my experience is that the
firewire plug on the camera or the firewire cable will become loose
in time, and this connection will not work as well. You would be
better off getting a firewire card reader, which can be hot linked
to a laptop or computer for faster downloads. The USB 1.1 link is
too slow to be practicable with this file size. You will spend many
long evenings watching the bits transfer. Geir has indicated that
the later builds of the camera have better firewire plugs. Still, I
would use this as a second option. In a studio setting, I also
imagine it would be better with two cards rather than being bound
to a cable.

Laurence

Kees Raats said:

--
Good morning,

Is there a posibility to wright data direct from the camera's
firewire or usb-port to a portable harddisk? I ordered my SD-9 with
a 256Mb card but I can store maybe 30 photo's on it(I think). I've
read about x-drive or image tank but that is more costly than just
a 2.5" hd in a firewire or usb case.
I'm new to all this so maybe some one has a nice cheap idea how to
backup te photo's.

Thanks from a new SD-9 user

Click to expand...

--
Kees

Dominique Leger · Jan 20, 2003

Kees asks:

Kees Raats said:
What I want is to shoot photo's till my card is full, than connect
the disk and copy the photo's to that disk.

Personally, I use a "Compact Flash to PCMCIA" adapter.
The Compact Flash slides in this PCMCIA card, then I slide it
in the portable computer. Very convenient, and fast!

Dominique.

Joseph S Wisniewski · Jan 20, 2003

Kees Raats said:
Laurence thanks for the reply,
but I think I set up the question wrong.
What I want is to shoot photo's till my card is full, than connect
the disk and copy the photo's to that disk. So I can format the CF
in camera and continu shoot images.

This would require a "dual mode" USB interface. I don't think any digital camera currently has one of those. USB comes in two flavors, masters (usually computers) and slaves (cameras, disk drives, printers). You cannot connect two slaves together.

You can get a "USB network" adapter that allows two masters to talk to each other, to transfer files from computer to computer.

Some computers have dual mode interfaces, and some printers do. Eventually, pretty much all USB interfaces will be dual mode, but not for a whiie.

Ciao!

Joe

Laurence Matson · Jan 20, 2003

Kees,

I use two cards and two systems. For my PC, I have a card reader that I use to read the CF. In such cases, I am getting down to real processing work. For my laptop, I have a PC CF card adapter, which is fast, as was mentioned. If I am shooting, I can put the filled car in there and download it while shooting with the second card. Without a second card, you will not be able to continue shooting in any case, as it takes some time to download even with a fast device.

Hope this helps,

Laurence

Kees Raats · Jan 20, 2003

Thanks all for reply.

But what if i'm on location and have no power except car battery. I think there are firewire/usb cases for portable use with AA battery's. Where I put in a 2.5" HD (correct me if I'm wrong). What I want to know is if there is a possibility to write it over fire wire direct to disk without something between it.(direct firewirecable in camera and copy to disk). Maybe I'm a little hard headed but have little money and a few HD's in stock. So I try to find out the cheapest way.

If it's not possible I have to buy another CF card. But I like a small medium to copy to (not like a laptop) to carry with me. And as Laurence said the connection to the camera is to weak to connect permanently maybe there wil be a solution.

Thanks in advance

Kees

Dominique Leger said:
Dominique Leger said:

What I want is to shoot photo's till my card is full, than connect
the disk and copy the photo's to that disk.

Click to expand...

Personally, I use a "Compact Flash to PCMCIA" adapter.
The Compact Flash slides in this PCMCIA card, then I slide it
in the portable computer. Very convenient, and fast!

Dominique.

--
Kees

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner · Jan 20, 2003

Kees Raats said:
Laurence thanks for the reply,
but I think I set up the question wrong.
What I want is to shoot photo's till my card is full, than connect
the disk and copy the photo's to that disk. So I can format the CF
in camera and continu shoot images. I don't know if there is
software in the camera to transport the images to the disk. The
possibility of connecting the disk toe the camera was in my mind
but realised what you wrote that the connection is to fragile for
long term use.

I understand exactly what you want - to simply have a camera and HD, with no PC involved anywhere.

The closest I have found to such a thing is not so much using the camera to connect to a firewire drive directly (which I am doubting would work, even though it makes a lot of sense) but a portable drive that has a compact flash slot and can read CF cards directly, copying pictures to the drive. The only one I've found is the "SuperDigiBin" here:

http://pocketec.net/catalog.taf?f=products&cat=DCS

Though they suffer a terrible flaw in that they are USB drives (that's right, not even USB 2.0) and thus will be terribly slow when you get back to home... perhaps you could rip the HD out of the case and put it into a firewire enclosure when you reach home.

I also would be interested to hear if any cameras understand how to save stuff out to a drive directly instead of needing a computer intermediary.

The thing I would most like to see added to digital cameras is the ability to send pictures over Bluetooth, so after every picture was taken a portable bluetooth HD (which also do not exist yet) in a pack somewhere on you would be fed the picture for storage. I'm not sure how badly such a system would affect battery life though...

--
---> Kendall

Kees Raats · Jan 20, 2003

Kendall thanks, that is excactly what I mean. I didn't know how to explain otherwise, but that is what I want. Shame that there is no such thing yet. There are things like this but they are quite expensive. When I recive my camera I will experiment some with a harddisk direct connected to the camera over fw. I hope there is a possibility to write direct to HD.

I can make a solid connection to the camera(I think) and put the HD in my pocket. We will see.

Kees

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner said:
Kees Raats said:

Laurence thanks for the reply,
but I think I set up the question wrong.
What I want is to shoot photo's till my card is full, than connect
the disk and copy the photo's to that disk. So I can format the CF
in camera and continu shoot images. I don't know if there is
software in the camera to transport the images to the disk. The
possibility of connecting the disk toe the camera was in my mind
but realised what you wrote that the connection is to fragile for
long term use.

Click to expand...

I understand exactly what you want - to simply have a camera and
HD, with no PC involved anywhere.

The closest I have found to such a thing is not so much using the
camera to connect to a firewire drive directly (which I am doubting
would work, even though it makes a lot of sense) but a portable
drive that has a compact flash slot and can read CF cards directly,
copying pictures to the drive. The only one I've found is the
"SuperDigiBin" here:

http://pocketec.net/catalog.taf?f=products&cat=DCS

Though they suffer a terrible flaw in that they are USB drives
(that's right, not even USB 2.0) and thus will be terribly slow
when you get back to home... perhaps you could rip the HD out of
the case and put it into a firewire enclosure when you reach home.

I also would be interested to hear if any cameras understand how to
save stuff out to a drive directly instead of needing a computer
intermediary.

The thing I would most like to see added to digital cameras is the
ability to send pictures over Bluetooth, so after every picture was
taken a portable bluetooth HD (which also do not exist yet) in a
pack somewhere on you would be fed the picture for storage. I'm
not sure how badly such a system would affect battery life though...

--
---> Kendall

--
Kees

Dominic Groß · Jan 22, 2003

There is another option:

CF cards use the same IDE interface HDs use (thats why it is possible to build the Microdrive or to use a CF card as HD in your PC) and CF cards use some kind of FAT filesystem. So the question is wether it is possible or not to use a CF card as Dummy in the Camera and have a wire to an external IDE Hardisk....

Kees Raats said:
Kees

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner said:

Kees Raats said:

Laurence thanks for the reply,
but I think I set up the question wrong.
What I want is to shoot photo's till my card is full, than connect
the disk and copy the photo's to that disk. So I can format the CF
in camera and continu shoot images. I don't know if there is
software in the camera to transport the images to the disk. The
possibility of connecting the disk toe the camera was in my mind
but realised what you wrote that the connection is to fragile for
long term use.

Click to expand...

I understand exactly what you want - to simply have a camera and
HD, with no PC involved anywhere.

The closest I have found to such a thing is not so much using the
camera to connect to a firewire drive directly (which I am doubting
would work, even though it makes a lot of sense) but a portable
drive that has a compact flash slot and can read CF cards directly,
copying pictures to the drive. The only one I've found is the
"SuperDigiBin" here:

http://pocketec.net/catalog.taf?f=products&cat=DCS

Though they suffer a terrible flaw in that they are USB drives
(that's right, not even USB 2.0) and thus will be terribly slow
when you get back to home... perhaps you could rip the HD out of
the case and put it into a firewire enclosure when you reach home.

I also would be interested to hear if any cameras understand how to
save stuff out to a drive directly instead of needing a computer
intermediary.

The thing I would most like to see added to digital cameras is the
ability to send pictures over Bluetooth, so after every picture was
taken a portable bluetooth HD (which also do not exist yet) in a
pack somewhere on you would be fed the picture for storage. I'm
not sure how badly such a system would affect battery life though...

--
---> Kendall

Click to expand...

--
Kees

Kees Raats · Jan 22, 2003

Dominic Thanks.

I already thought of that but I'm quite nervous with my new to get camera. So if you know if there is an example for this option? Maybe a PCMCIA card or so tweaking. When I have the camera I will experiment with that. Hope someone has the awnser.

Kees

Dominic Groß said:
Kees Raats said:

Kees

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner said:

Kees Raats said:

Laurence thanks for the reply,
but I think I set up the question wrong.
What I want is to shoot photo's till my card is full, than connect
the disk and copy the photo's to that disk. So I can format the CF
in camera and continu shoot images. I don't know if there is
software in the camera to transport the images to the disk. The
possibility of connecting the disk toe the camera was in my mind
but realised what you wrote that the connection is to fragile for
long term use.

Click to expand...

I understand exactly what you want - to simply have a camera and
HD, with no PC involved anywhere.

The closest I have found to such a thing is not so much using the
camera to connect to a firewire drive directly (which I am doubting
would work, even though it makes a lot of sense) but a portable
drive that has a compact flash slot and can read CF cards directly,
copying pictures to the drive. The only one I've found is the
"SuperDigiBin" here:

http://pocketec.net/catalog.taf?f=products&cat=DCS

Though they suffer a terrible flaw in that they are USB drives
(that's right, not even USB 2.0) and thus will be terribly slow
when you get back to home... perhaps you could rip the HD out of
the case and put it into a firewire enclosure when you reach home.

I also would be interested to hear if any cameras understand how to
save stuff out to a drive directly instead of needing a computer
intermediary.

The thing I would most like to see added to digital cameras is the
ability to send pictures over Bluetooth, so after every picture was
taken a portable bluetooth HD (which also do not exist yet) in a
pack somewhere on you would be fed the picture for storage. I'm
not sure how badly such a system would affect battery life though...

--
---> Kendall

Click to expand...

--
Kees

Click to expand...

--
Kees

Dominic Groß · Jan 22, 2003

Hi kees,

There is a lot of information in this thread:

http://www.linux-hacker.net/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/UltraBoard.pl?Action=ShowPost&Board=MSNCompanion&Post=80&Idle=0&Sort=0&Order=Descend&Page=Session&Session=

Kees Raats said:
I already thought of that but I'm quite nervous with my new to get
camera. So if you know if there is an example for this option?
Maybe a PCMCIA card or so tweaking. When I have the camera I will
experiment with that. Hope someone has the awnser.

Kees

Dominic Groß said:

Kees Raats said:

Kees

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner said:

Kees Raats said:

Laurence thanks for the reply,
but I think I set up the question wrong.
What I want is to shoot photo's till my card is full, than connect
the disk and copy the photo's to that disk. So I can format the CF
in camera and continu shoot images. I don't know if there is
software in the camera to transport the images to the disk. The
possibility of connecting the disk toe the camera was in my mind
but realised what you wrote that the connection is to fragile for
long term use.

Click to expand...

I understand exactly what you want - to simply have a camera and
HD, with no PC involved anywhere.

The closest I have found to such a thing is not so much using the
camera to connect to a firewire drive directly (which I am doubting
would work, even though it makes a lot of sense) but a portable
drive that has a compact flash slot and can read CF cards directly,
copying pictures to the drive. The only one I've found is the
"SuperDigiBin" here:

http://pocketec.net/catalog.taf?f=products&cat=DCS

Though they suffer a terrible flaw in that they are USB drives
(that's right, not even USB 2.0) and thus will be terribly slow
when you get back to home... perhaps you could rip the HD out of
the case and put it into a firewire enclosure when you reach home.

I also would be interested to hear if any cameras understand how to
save stuff out to a drive directly instead of needing a computer
intermediary.

The thing I would most like to see added to digital cameras is the
ability to send pictures over Bluetooth, so after every picture was
taken a portable bluetooth HD (which also do not exist yet) in a
pack somewhere on you would be fed the picture for storage. I'm
not sure how badly such a system would affect battery life though...

--
---> Kendall

Click to expand...

--
Kees

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Kees

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner · Jan 22, 2003

Dominic Groß said:
Hi kees,

There is a lot of information in this thread:

http://www.linux-hacker.net/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/UltraBoard.pl?Action=ShowPost&Board=MSNCompanion&Post=80&Idle=0&Sort=0&Order=Descend&Page=Session&Session=

Hey! I didn't know that myself, perhaps it would be possible to modify an iPod somewhat to run a cable out and into the CF-HDD adaptor. I think the iPod HD is just a very small IDE drive... I think the Windows iPod sofwtare can format the iPod as FAT. Then you can even download the pictures over a firewire connection... and soon iPod might even support firewire2.

Imagine 20GB of photo storage in the form factor of an iPod with a battery life of 10 hours!! Perhaps if I ever get a new iPod I'll pull apart my 5GB model to experiment.

--
---> Kendall

Dominic Groß · Jan 22, 2003

It would be cheaper to buy a small 2,5" laptop Harddisk but anyway there are quite a few problems. The first problem is that most digital Cameras can only use Fat12 or Fat16 as Filesystem on CF Cards / Mircrodrives / HDs. But Fat16 is limited to 4gb. So Somebody has to test if the bios of the SD9 accepts a Harddisk larger than 4 GB and if the SD9 can handle Fat32. You have one big problem solved if you use a iPOD the powersuply. But this is still a weak point of this idea, because a HD consumes a lot of power...

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner said:
Dominic Groß said:

Hi kees,

There is a lot of information in this thread:

http://www.linux-hacker.net/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/UltraBoard.pl?Action=ShowPost&Board=MSNCompanion&Post=80&Idle=0&Sort=0&Order=Descend&Page=Session&Session=

Click to expand...

Hey! I didn't know that myself, perhaps it would be possible to
modify an iPod somewhat to run a cable out and into the CF-HDD
adaptor. I think the iPod HD is just a very small IDE drive... I
think the Windows iPod sofwtare can format the iPod as FAT. Then
you can even download the pictures over a firewire connection...
and soon iPod might even support firewire2.

Imagine 20GB of photo storage in the form factor of an iPod with a
battery life of 10 hours!! Perhaps if I ever get a new iPod I'll
pull apart my 5GB model to experiment.

--
---> Kendall

Dominic Groß · Jan 22, 2003

Dominic Groß said:
It would be cheaper to buy a small 2,5" laptop Harddisk but anyway
there are quite a few problems. The first problem is that most
digital Cameras can only use Fat12 or Fat16 as Filesystem on CF
Cards / Mircrodrives / HDs. But Fat16 is limited to 4gb. So
Somebody has to test if the bios of the SD9 accepts a Harddisk
larger than 4 GB and if the SD9 can handle Fat32. You have one big
problem solved if you use a iPOD the powersuply. But this is still
a weak point of this idea, because a HD consumes a lot of power...

It will consume a lot more power then in the iPOD, because in the the HD only needs to read mp3 to the memory and after this is done (takes a few seconds) it can got in standby mode because the mp3 is stored in the memory. If there is a way to connect a HD to the SD9 the HD will Constantly have to write Data and can not go to standy mode ...

Dominic Groß said:
Kendall Helmstetter Gelner said:

Dominic Groß said:

Hi kees,

There is a lot of information in this thread:

http://www.linux-hacker.net/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/UltraBoard.pl?Action=ShowPost&Board=MSNCompanion&Post=80&Idle=0&Sort=0&Order=Descend&Page=Session&Session=

Click to expand...

Hey! I didn't know that myself, perhaps it would be possible to
modify an iPod somewhat to run a cable out and into the CF-HDD
adaptor. I think the iPod HD is just a very small IDE drive... I
think the Windows iPod sofwtare can format the iPod as FAT. Then
you can even download the pictures over a firewire connection...
and soon iPod might even support firewire2.

Imagine 20GB of photo storage in the form factor of an iPod with a
battery life of 10 hours!! Perhaps if I ever get a new iPod I'll
pull apart my 5GB model to experiment.

--
---> Kendall

Click to expand...

Kees Raats · Jan 23, 2003

He thanks guys,

I think this is a turn in the right direction. Now there are possibility's to experiment with an external HD. Now I have to try to disconnect the 40 pin IDE connector from it and try to connect a flat cable between them. I alredy have a converter from IDE to 2,5" with power connector. Now find a small box to fit it in with battery compartment. When I recive my camera I will experiment with this. If there any more sollutions please let us all know

Kees

Kees Raats said:
--
Good morning,

Is there a posibility to wright data direct from the camera's
firewire or usb-port to a portable harddisk? I ordered my SD-9 with
a 256Mb card but I can store maybe 30 photo's on it(I think). I've
read about x-drive or image tank but that is more costly than just
a 2.5" hd in a firewire or usb case.
I'm new to all this so maybe some one has a nice cheap idea how to
backup te photo's.

Thanks from a new SD-9 user

--
Kees

Dominic Groß · Jan 23, 2003

For me still one question remains:
which CF pin has to be connected to which IDE pin?
All the pdfs linked in this thread on linux-hacker.net seemed to be down...

Kees Raats said:
I think this is a turn in the right direction. Now there are
possibility's to experiment with an external HD. Now I have to try
to disconnect the 40 pin IDE connector from it and try to connect a
flat cable between them. I alredy have a converter from IDE to 2,5"
with power connector. Now find a small box to fit it in with
battery compartment. When I recive my camera I will experiment with
this. If there any more sollutions please let us all know

Kees

Kees Raats said:

--
Good morning,

Is there a posibility to wright data direct from the camera's
firewire or usb-port to a portable harddisk? I ordered my SD-9 with
a 256Mb card but I can store maybe 30 photo's on it(I think). I've
read about x-drive or image tank but that is more costly than just
a 2.5" hd in a firewire or usb case.
I'm new to all this so maybe some one has a nice cheap idea how to
backup te photo's.

Thanks from a new SD-9 user

Click to expand...

--
Kees

Kees Raats · Jan 23, 2003

Lets try to find out!!

Kees

Dominic Groß said:
Kees Raats said:

I think this is a turn in the right direction. Now there are
possibility's to experiment with an external HD. Now I have to try
to disconnect the 40 pin IDE connector from it and try to connect a
flat cable between them. I alredy have a converter from IDE to 2,5"
with power connector. Now find a small box to fit it in with
battery compartment. When I recive my camera I will experiment with
this. If there any more sollutions please let us all know

Kees

Kees Raats said:

--
Good morning,

Is there a posibility to wright data direct from the camera's
firewire or usb-port to a portable harddisk? I ordered my SD-9 with
a 256Mb card but I can store maybe 30 photo's on it(I think). I've
read about x-drive or image tank but that is more costly than just
a 2.5" hd in a firewire or usb case.
I'm new to all this so maybe some one has a nice cheap idea how to
backup te photo's.

Thanks from a new SD-9 user

Click to expand...

--
Kees

Click to expand...

--
Kees

Kees Raats · Jan 23, 2003

10 seconds needed .look at
http://www.wau.nl/hemeltje/temporary/personal/miscelaneous/cfadapter.html
nice site

Kees

From Holland with Sigma

Kees Raats said:
Kees

Dominic Groß said:

Kees Raats said:

I think this is a turn in the right direction. Now there are
possibility's to experiment with an external HD. Now I have to try
to disconnect the 40 pin IDE connector from it and try to connect a
flat cable between them. I alredy have a converter from IDE to 2,5"
with power connector. Now find a small box to fit it in with
battery compartment. When I recive my camera I will experiment with
this. If there any more sollutions please let us all know

Kees

Kees Raats said:

--
Good morning,

Is there a posibility to wright data direct from the camera's
firewire or usb-port to a portable harddisk? I ordered my SD-9 with
a 256Mb card but I can store maybe 30 photo's on it(I think). I've
read about x-drive or image tank but that is more costly than just
a 2.5" hd in a firewire or usb case.
I'm new to all this so maybe some one has a nice cheap idea how to
backup te photo's.

Thanks from a new SD-9 user

Click to expand...

--
Kees

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Kees

--
Kees

Dominic Groß · Jan 23, 2003

Hm good news

I found the same in the german issue of Elektor some minutes ago...

Kees Raats said:
Kees

From Holland with Sigma

Kees Raats said:

Kees

Dominic Groß said:

Kees Raats said:

I think this is a turn in the right direction. Now there are
possibility's to experiment with an external HD. Now I have to try
to disconnect the 40 pin IDE connector from it and try to connect a
flat cable between them. I alredy have a converter from IDE to 2,5"
with power connector. Now find a small box to fit it in with
battery compartment. When I recive my camera I will experiment with
this. If there any more sollutions please let us all know

Kees

Kees Raats said:

--
Good morning,

Is there a posibility to wright data direct from the camera's
firewire or usb-port to a portable harddisk? I ordered my SD-9 with
a 256Mb card but I can store maybe 30 photo's on it(I think). I've
read about x-drive or image tank but that is more costly than just
a 2.5" hd in a firewire or usb case.
I'm new to all this so maybe some one has a nice cheap idea how to
backup te photo's.

Thanks from a new SD-9 user

Click to expand...

--
Kees

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Kees

Click to expand...

--
Kees

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