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Zony Conspiracy

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Press Correspondent

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Zeiss has announced an upcoming range of AF mirrorless lenses. No specific format was mentioned. In turn, Sony is expected to release a full frame mirrorless body, abeit with a fixed Zeiss lens for now to skim the market. Mirrorless lenses are essentially the rangefinder design not limited by the mirror box. Who has a full line of full frame ranngefinder lenses, Leica, Zeiss, who else? With Leica pricing itself out of the competition, is there a Zony (Zeiss + Sony) conspiracy to take over the world with full frame mirrorless next year taking market share away from Canon and Nikon DSLRs?
 
Press Correspondent said:
Zeiss has announced an upcoming range of AF mirrorless lenses. No specific format was mentioned. In turn, Sony is expected to release a full frame mirrorless body, abeit with a fixed Zeiss lens for now to skim the market. Mirrorless lenses are essentially the rangefinder design not limited by the mirror box. Who has a full line of full frame ranngefinder lenses, Leica, Zeiss, who else? With Leica pricing itself out of the competition, is there a Zony (Zeiss + Sony) conspiracy to take over the world with full frame mirrorless next year taking market share away from Canon and Nikon DSLRs?
Click to expand...
Mirrorless range finder lenses have their own limitations.... especially the missing mirror box making the flange distance very short poses different problems.

And how can a camera with no serious tele lenses and no fast AF tracking take market share away from FF dslrs?
 
brightcolours said:
Press Correspondent said:
Zeiss has announced an upcoming range of AF mirrorless lenses. No specific format was mentioned. In turn, Sony is expected to release a full frame mirrorless body, abeit with a fixed Zeiss lens for now to skim the market. Mirrorless lenses are essentially the rangefinder design not limited by the mirror box. Who has a full line of full frame ranngefinder lenses, Leica, Zeiss, who else? With Leica pricing itself out of the competition, is there a Zony (Zeiss + Sony) conspiracy to take over the world with full frame mirrorless next year taking market share away from Canon and Nikon DSLRs?
Click to expand...
Mirrorless range finder lenses have their own limitations.... especially the missing mirror box making the flange distance very short poses different problems.
Click to expand...
The short flange distance causes no problems. Having a short register does not mean that the exit pupil has to be close to the image plane, lough having a long one more or less does mean that it has to be far away.

--
Bob
 
Press Correspondent said:
Zeiss has announced an upcoming range of AF mirrorless lenses. No specific format was mentioned. In turn, Sony is expected to release a full frame mirrorless body, abeit with a fixed Zeiss lens for now to skim the market. Mirrorless lenses are essentially the rangefinder design not limited by the mirror box. Who has a full line of full frame ranngefinder lenses, Leica, Zeiss, who else? With Leica pricing itself out of the competition, is there a Zony (Zeiss + Sony) conspiracy to take over the world with full frame mirrorless next year taking market share away from Canon and Nikon DSLRs?
Click to expand...
No, I doubt it. You are talking about two different Zeiss businesses. One is the JV with Cosina, and Cosina will have been looking for an in to the mirrorless third party lens market, with all the independent lens manufacturers going that way. The other is essentially Sony's use of Zeiss branding/methods/consultancy. The decision makers for the two would have been entirely different - Cosina on the one hand, Sony on the other.
--
Bob
 
i hate the word 'mirrorless' and it is a ilogical and redundant new word composition .

who ever came up with it should be slapped hard, and also the ones that use it on and on.

they do not have vacuum pumps, no forks and no grinder in them ...
that is a harsh way to look at it - and not 100% logical, i agree ...

BUT 'mirrorless' was first and then mirrors came in later--- and even there, some steady and some moving...

--
.
 
aaaja said:
i hate the word 'mirrorless' and it is a ilogical and redundant new word composition .

who ever came up with it should be slapped hard, and also the ones that use it on and on.

they do not have vacuum pumps, no forks and no grinder in them ...
that is a harsh way to look at it - and not 100% logical, i agree ...

BUT 'mirrorless' was first and then mirrors came in later--- and even there, some steady and some moving...
Click to expand...
I agree, it is quite stupid. Even SLRs are not called "mirror cameras" (although "R" does stand there for "reflex"). The problem is that the "rangefinder" name is no longer applicable for cameras without a rangefinder. What is a better name?
 
bobn2 said:
Press Correspondent said:
Zeiss has announced an upcoming range of AF mirrorless lenses. No specific format was mentioned. In turn, Sony is expected to release a full frame mirrorless body, abeit with a fixed Zeiss lens for now to skim the market. Mirrorless lenses are essentially the rangefinder design not limited by the mirror box. Who has a full line of full frame ranngefinder lenses, Leica, Zeiss, who else? With Leica pricing itself out of the competition, is there a Zony (Zeiss + Sony) conspiracy to take over the world with full frame mirrorless next year taking market share away from Canon and Nikon DSLRs?
Click to expand...
No, I doubt it. You are talking about two different Zeiss businesses. One is the JV with Cosina, and Cosina will have been looking for an in to the mirrorless third party lens market, with all the independent lens manufacturers going that way. The other is essentially Sony's use of Zeiss branding/methods/consultancy. The decision makers for the two would have been entirely different - Cosina on the one hand, Sony on the other.
Click to expand...
I see your point, but don't you think the 35mm on the upcoming Sony FF is probably Cosina? If so, it is a start...
 
Press Correspondent said:
bobn2 said:
Press Correspondent said:
Zeiss has announced an upcoming range of AF mirrorless lenses. No specific format was mentioned. In turn, Sony is expected to release a full frame mirrorless body, abeit with a fixed Zeiss lens for now to skim the market. Mirrorless lenses are essentially the rangefinder design not limited by the mirror box. Who has a full line of full frame ranngefinder lenses, Leica, Zeiss, who else? With Leica pricing itself out of the competition, is there a Zony (Zeiss + Sony) conspiracy to take over the world with full frame mirrorless next year taking market share away from Canon and Nikon DSLRs?
Click to expand...
No, I doubt it. You are talking about two different Zeiss businesses. One is the JV with Cosina, and Cosina will have been looking for an in to the mirrorless third party lens market, with all the independent lens manufacturers going that way. The other is essentially Sony's use of Zeiss branding/methods/consultancy. The decision makers for the two would have been entirely different - Cosina on the one hand, Sony on the other.
Click to expand...
I see your point, but don't you think the 35mm on the upcoming Sony FF is probably Cosina? If so, it is a start...
Click to expand...
No. I'm sure it's manufactured at Sony's optical factories, and was most probably designed by Sony, under Zeiss consultancy.
--
Bob
 
brightcolours said:
And how can a camera with no serious tele lenses and no fast AF tracking take market share away from FF dslrs?
Click to expand...
Good point that only proves my suspicion, because Zeiss just introduced 135mm. In fact, they have serious telephoto and very long zooms for video, so they have the knowledge, designs, and technology to compete. The AF has never been a strong part with Zeiss, but Sony's involvement should not be underestimated.

On the other hand, does Canon have serious telephoto? For pros sure, but for the rest of us... Sorry, my mental "search" does not include any lens over $3k. This is why Leica is not on my radar, but Zony may just be after this market.

Wouldn't you be curious about FF mirrorless Sony with a D800 grade sensor and AF Zeiss/Cosina interchangeable optics, if such an offering took place?
 
brightcolours said:
Press Correspondent said:
Zeiss has announced an upcoming range of AF mirrorless lenses. No specific format was mentioned. In turn, Sony is expected to release a full frame mirrorless body, abeit with a fixed Zeiss lens for now to skim the market. Mirrorless lenses are essentially the rangefinder design not limited by the mirror box. Who has a full line of full frame ranngefinder lenses, Leica, Zeiss, who else? With Leica pricing itself out of the competition, is there a Zony (Zeiss + Sony) conspiracy to take over the world with full frame mirrorless next year taking market share away from Canon and Nikon DSLRs?
Click to expand...
Mirrorless range finder lenses have their own limitations.... especially the missing mirror box making the flange distance very short poses different problems.
Click to expand...
How could that be? It can only be an advantage that you can design the WA lens closer and telephoto lens as far away as you would like to.
brightcolours said:
And how can a camera with no serious tele lenses and no fast AF tracking take market share away from FF dslrs?
Click to expand...
Wasn't the most popular full frame dslr just a few years ago have very long shutter lag and slow fps? There is no fundamental limitation for mirrorless not getting better in AF speed while the physical limitation of the mirror box is always there. Besides a lot of people, in particular landscape photographers, are using liveview with their dslr anyway.
 
Why you call a camera "single lens" reflex then? Like any other cameras we have now have more than one lens.

Mirrorless is one way to describe the new breed because that is the major difference from the product it supposed to supplement or replace. The other descriptions people have been using are "compact", "electronic viewfinder" or "exchangeable lens", or combination of any of the above.
aaaja said:
i hate the word 'mirrorless' and it is a ilogical and redundant new word composition .

who ever came up with it should be slapped hard, and also the ones that use it on and on.

they do not have vacuum pumps, no forks and no grinder in them ...
that is a harsh way to look at it - and not 100% logical, i agree ...

BUT 'mirrorless' was first and then mirrors came in later--- and even there, some steady and some moving...

--
.
Click to expand...
 
Press Correspondent said:
Zeiss has announced an upcoming range of AF mirrorless lenses. No specific format was mentioned.
Click to expand...
I see only two possibilities: APS-C (Sony's mirroless format), or FF. Now as far as Zeiss is concerned, FF + mirrorless = M-mount. I can't fathom them inventing or using any other FF mount.
Press Correspondent said:
Who has a full line of full frame ranngefinder lenses, Leica, Zeiss, who else?
Click to expand...
Voigtlander.
 
Press Correspondent said:
On the other hand, does Canon have serious telephoto? For pros sure, but for the rest of us... Sorry, my mental "search" does not include any lens over $3k.
Click to expand...
100-400L, 400/5.6L.
Press Correspondent said:
Wouldn't you be curious about FF mirrorless Sony with a D800 grade sensor and AF Zeiss/Cosina interchangeable optics, if such an offering took place?
Click to expand...
Yes I would. Actually if the RX1 comes down to $2000 I will seriously consider selling my 35L to get it.
 
carlk said:
Why you call a camera "single lens" reflex then? Like any other cameras we have now have more than one lens.
Click to expand...
Single lens as opposed to Twin Lens Reflex or Rangefinder. An SLR only ever has one lens attached to it at a time. A TLR has one lens for the viewfinder, and one for taking the photo. A Rangefinder has lenses for the rangefinder/viewfinder and another for taking the photo. An SLR has the distinction that composition and capture both happen through the same lens, eliminating parallax error and the need for compensations when different focal lengths are used.
carlk said:
Mirrorless is one way to describe the new breed because that is the major difference from the product it supposed to supplement or replace. The other descriptions people have been using are "compact", "electronic viewfinder" or "exchangeable lens", or combination of any of the above.
Click to expand...
Mirrorless is dumb. I like CSC - compact system camera.
 
JackM said:
carlk said:
Why you call a camera "single lens" reflex then? Like any other cameras we have now have more than one lens.
Click to expand...
Single lens as opposed to Twin Lens Reflex or Rangefinder.
Click to expand...
I know that but that WAS the most important feature from the other major product at that time. No one thought it's a dumb name years later when every camera has only one lens attached. So is mirrorless to describe the new breed that is still evolving. "Compact", "EVF", "exchangeable lens".... could describe one but not the others. Mirrorless (or non-dsl) seems to be the generic name that can describe all of them.
 
How about a productive partnership to gain market share and along the way introduce some nice equipment? Sony has been, in my view, the most innovative company in the last few years re photography. I don't like some of their ideas, like SLT, but they have tried hard to go beyond the obvious. This compact FF is the size of a GX1. If it were cheaper I'd be very interested.



--
Renato.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/
OnExposure member
http://www.onexposure.net/

Good shooting and good luck
(after Ed Murrow)
 
carlk said:
brightcolours said:
Press Correspondent said:
Zeiss has announced an upcoming range of AF mirrorless lenses. No specific format was mentioned. In turn, Sony is expected to release a full frame mirrorless body, abeit with a fixed Zeiss lens for now to skim the market. Mirrorless lenses are essentially the rangefinder design not limited by the mirror box. Who has a full line of full frame ranngefinder lenses, Leica, Zeiss, who else? With Leica pricing itself out of the competition, is there a Zony (Zeiss + Sony) conspiracy to take over the world with full frame mirrorless next year taking market share away from Canon and Nikon DSLRs?
Click to expand...
Mirrorless range finder lenses have their own limitations.... especially the missing mirror box making the flange distance very short poses different problems.
Click to expand...
How could that be? It can only be an advantage that you can design the WA lens closer and telephoto lens as far away as you would like to.
Click to expand...
Wide angle lenses have big problem on FF sensors, especially the ones with short flange distance. Also, the short flange distance for certain lenses limits the max. aperture.
carlk said:
carlk said:
And how can a camera with no serious tele lenses and no fast AF tracking take market share away from FF dslrs?
Click to expand...
Wasn't the most popular full frame dslr just a few years ago have very long shutter lag and slow fps?
Click to expand...
Which popular FF DSLR has a big shutter lag? And what does the shutter lag have to do with a mirror or no mirror?

Which non-DSLR has fast AF tracking and fast FPS? None.
carlk said:
There is no fundamental limitation for mirrorless not getting better in AF speed while the physical limitation of the mirror box is always there. Besides a lot of people, in particular landscape photographers, are using liveview with their dslr anyway.
Click to expand...
There is a fundamental limitation for Af tracking for sure. The mirror provides AND the possibility for advanced PD AF sensors AND for an optical view finder. two very big plusses.
 
carlk said:
JackM said:
carlk said:
Why you call a camera "single lens" reflex then? Like any other cameras we have now have more than one lens.
Click to expand...
Single lens as opposed to Twin Lens Reflex or Rangefinder.
Click to expand...
I know that but that WAS the most important feature from the other major product at that time. No one thought it's a dumb name years later when every camera has only one lens attached.
Click to expand...
Not true, any camera with a viewfinder that looks through a lens other than the taking lens is by definition, a twin or multi-lens camera. The single-lens distinction is still relvant today and always has been.
carlk said:
So is mirrorless to describe the new breed that is still evolving. "Compact", "EVF", "exchangeable lens".... could describe one but not the others. Mirrorless (or non-dsl) seems to be the generic name that can describe all of them.
Click to expand...
I agree it has gotten the most traction, but it's still too vague.
 
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