Entry level vs pro (what makes them pro?)

I was thinking about this today while playing around with my Sony a57.

I was in futureshop the other day looking at the Canon 7d and was thinking about jumping ship (just because there is a ton more available on the used market for canon or nikon than sony) But I really thought about what makes the Canon 7d a "pro" camera, when my Sony a57 can do basically the same as the 7d can, and it seems to have better image quality, at half the price.

you can check specs and stuff here:
http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon_EOS_7D-vs-Sony-SLT-A57

The sony seems to have better better color depth, more dynamic range, better IQ, in body image stabilization, Phase detection for video auto focus, panorama images, 3d images, HDR images, flip out screen, larger view finder, shoots a lot faster at 12 frames per second at 8mp and the same as the 7d (8fps at full res), a lot higher ISO, larger sensor, and its half the price.

Now the 7d has a pentaprism view finder (not really sure what that means), its weather sealed, more available lenses, longer battery life, slightly lower noise at higher iso, only 1.9 higher mp than the a57, 19 focus points compared to the 15, and it shoots at 1/8000 of a second compaired to 1/4000 of a second.

Basically again, is the 7d worth double the price of the Sony a57? and Why is the a57 considered an entry level dslt, and the 7d considered a pro level dslr. To me they seem like the are very comparable cameras.

Sorry for the long post

Thanks!

You have indicated a few things that make a camera a pro model vs an enthusiast model. The simple fact is that a enthusiast model that is new today can take better quality images than a three or four year old pro model. That is due to the electronics getting better. The basic capabilities of a pro model that make it a pro (in my opinion) are:

The camera body is made out of better material, usually metal instead of plastic. It has control dials that are easier to use and provide greater functionality. It can normally take more than three bracketed images and takes more shots per second. Its shutter life is longer, being rated for 300,000 shots instead of 100,000 or 150,000. It is also better weather sealed.

If you are an enthusiast photographer then be happy that you have a better sensor and electronics capable of taking higher quality images. Unless you really need the capabilities of a pro model then buy the enthusiast model.

But of course I would love to have a D800
--
As far as possible, without surrender,
be on good terms with all persons.
-- Max Ehrmann

The skill of the photographer using them.

A pro camera has features that a pro needs.

As you mentioned, the 7D is weather resistant. A pro may have no choice but to shoot in bad weather...it's his job. A solid magnesium body under all that rubber gives it better build quality. The magnesium body is important for maintaining lens alignment. Both of these features are important to pros.

The 7D has more direct controls, making it faster for changing certain settings. It has two control wheels and also a joystick for quick selecting focus points. Being able to change settings quickly is important to pros. It also has an LCD control panel on top of the camera which is very useful for checking the condition of the camera and doesn't wash-out in bright sunlight like the rear LCD does (on all cameras.)

While the A57 has a mode that shoots at 12 FPS, the more conventional mode, that allows full control, is only 8 FPS. This is the same as the 7D. However, it states in the A57 manual that the continuous shooting may be slower depending on shooting conditions. More importantly, however, is the fact that the A57 burst mode will only record 25 "Fine" JPEG images, whereas the 7D will take hundreds of "Fine" JPEGs. Even in RAW, the 7D has a burst of 24 images (only 3 more than the A57's 21) at full speed...but then it will shoot at nearly 5 FPS after the buffer is full...something the A57 can't do. The ability to continuously shoot for more than just a couple of seconds is critical for pro sports shooters, who will shoot a 100 meter dash from before the starter's pistol fires until the last runner crosses the line.

There's also the fact that, according to DPR's review of various SLT bodies, the AF system isn't as good as Canon's or Nikon's.

Then there's all the other functionality that pro photographers need...PC terminal for flash, wireless flash commander, optional wireless transmitters, etc...features that are expensive to include, but that don't matter to typical consumers.

So basically, if you're not a pro then you don't need a 7D. If you are a pro, then an A57 just doesn't cut it.

.

There are two ways to look at this : pro as a marketing term to sell models or pro as a matter of skill.

The 7D isn't exactly a pro model in marketing terms - it's a halfway house.

The difference you're paying for is in controls, handling, the AF system, the build quality, the level of sealing and customization under the hood of photographic options. You're also paying for the durability of e.g. the shutter in more expensive models. A pro model might have other things like dual memory card slots, portrait orientation controls, etc.

Whether an individual needs those features is up to them.

What makes the camera truly a pro camera, ultimately, is really the pro behind the camera. A pro with a D5100 would be expected, on average, to beat an amateur for consistently getting shots and nailing framing, exposure and composition. And it is composition and the use of light and shadow that you generally see the pros separated from the boys with toys.

Lastly of course there's another fundamental difference between a pro and ever a serious enthusiast - revenue. Pros buy equipment that they expect to make them more money and that could mean expensive or cheap equipment depending on what business they plan to do. Enthusiasts generally don't need to pay the mortgage, health insurance, etc. from what they shoot. Paying a 100% premium for a 10% faster AF system might make no sense to them, for example, but for the pro it could be the difference between making this months rent or not.

--
StephenG

i shoot dance schools and use a pentax k7 their pro camera, its more about the features for me. its hdmi live view output tethered to a 24" screen for preview as well as live view, its al about customising the camera. its about acurate wb low light af in all conditions its about dual batteries no lag time on shutter while writing to the card they a machines that make your day easier i shoot upto 1000 portraits over 2 days they are keepers not total. it has nothing to do about direct pic quality if you cant get the shot theirs not much sense in perfect picture quality. little things like previewing the shot on a screen in portrait mode. sensor not over heating ect.

cheers don

Graystar said:

This is the same as the 7D. However, it states in the A57 manual that the continuous shooting may be slower depending on shooting conditions.

Click to expand...

And that does not apply to to the 7D?

Can the 7D take 8 fps with a shutter time of 1/5 second?

Allan Olesen said:

Graystar said:

This is the same as the 7D. However, it states in the A57 manual that the continuous shooting may be slower depending on shooting conditions.

Click to expand...

And that does not apply to to the 7D?

Can the 7D take 8 fps with a shutter time of 1/5 second?

Click to expand...

From the A57 manual...

"The speed of continuous shooting may be slower, depending on shooting conditions (Image size, ISO setting, High ISO NR, or the setting of [Lens Comp.: Distortion])"

Canon says that the 7D shooting speed will be slightly slower if the battery is low, and may become slightly slower when using AI Servo AF, and in low-light even if a fast shutter speed is set.

So the 7D's shooting speed is affected by metering needs and subject focus factors, whereas the A57's shooting speed may slow down just by selecting various options. And although the Sony manual doesn't mention it, I'd bet that the same factors that slow the 7D also slow the A57.

.

Because one's marketed towards the professional while the other isn't.

More traditionally, the mark of a "pro camera" is that a professional uses it for his/her work (which means even smartphones from Apple and Samsung are "pro cameras"), but it's marketing demographics who determine which category it gets thrown under in online stores.

In terms of actual features... well, normally cameras aimed at pros have shutters rated for a much longer life than consumer-oriented models, and weather sealing is also a popular feature for them, but neither is an universal criteria by any means. Nevermind stuff such as resolution, framerate or ISO rating, which have been continuously improving for years throughout manufacturers' entire ranges.
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A tax return with taxable income from photography. Anything else is a hobby.

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Everything happens for a reason. #1 reason: poor planning
WSSA #44

Thanks for the reply, but I really meant camera wise. What makes a professional camera over an entry level.

Price.

PicturePerfect04 said:

Thanks for the reply, but I really meant camera wise. What makes a professional camera over an entry level.

Click to expand...

--
Everything happens for a reason. #1 reason: poor planning
WSSA #44

the easiest way to get your head round this is to imagine the days of film

in those far off days, some of had a Nikon FG, it was an entry level camera. Professionals had an F2 or F3, but we by and large used the same 50mm 1.8 or 1.4 lens

We could also use the same quality film, so, the issue of the sensor quality never came into it.

As someone who liked to take pictures in my spare time, my FG with an excellent lens and Kodachrome 64 gave me excellent results (sometimes!!)

As did the same film and same lens on the pro's camera, the difference is that the pro is taking pictures all day every day, and needed to nail exposure and other things every time- and quickly, his/her camera had to be built much much better, and all the other things posters here have said defines where a camera is in the line up

a camera is a tool, at home i have a drill/screwdriver- it isn't great, but it does the job I need to do once in a blue moon- it was cheap- i wouldn't want to rely on it if i drilled holes for a living

Reliability and familiarity is key

A guy making money off of photography wants his camera to go bang every time and hopefully be able to replace it with something similar when it dies so he does not need to relearn how to use the thing.

Pro support was also a benefit (well back in the day, you had Nikon House, etc)

BTW: pentaprism means just that, a five sided prism. This used to be standard on every SLR camera out there in the world, until camera manufacturers decided that "hey, we can't offer these expensive parts on $500 cameras if we want to make money", so lower end DSLRs use pentamirrors, which are dimmer, but less expensive

PicturePerfect04 said:

I was thinking about this today while playing around with my Sony a57.

I was in futureshop the other day looking at the Canon 7d and was thinking about jumping ship (just because there is a ton more available on the used market for canon or nikon than sony) But I really thought about what makes the Canon 7d a "pro" camera, when my Sony a57 can do basically the same as the 7d can, and it seems to have better image quality, at half the price.

you can check specs and stuff here:
http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon_EOS_7D-vs-Sony-SLT-A57

The sony seems to have better better color depth, more dynamic range, better IQ, in body image stabilization, Phase detection for video auto focus, panorama images, 3d images, HDR images, flip out screen, larger view finder, shoots a lot faster at 12 frames per second at 8mp and the same as the 7d (8fps at full res), a lot higher ISO, larger sensor, and its half the price.

Now the 7d has a pentaprism view finder (not really sure what that means), its weather sealed, more available lenses, longer battery life, slightly lower noise at higher iso, only 1.9 higher mp than the a57, 19 focus points compared to the 15, and it shoots at 1/8000 of a second compaired to 1/4000 of a second.

Basically again, is the 7d worth double the price of the Sony a57? and Why is the a57 considered an entry level dslt, and the 7d considered a pro level dslr. To me they seem like the are very comparable cameras.

Sorry for the long post

Thanks!

Click to expand...

An EVF is drawback for action oriented camera. You want the real view you get with an OVF without "slideshow" or blown out highlights/blocked shadows as the subject moves from sun to shade. You dont want the motion softness of the EVF you can see when shooting fast subjects. If you for instance look in the viewfinder at a crowd of marathon runners, and switch between an EVF camera and an OVF camera you see how the image gets rock steady as you switch to the OVF.

And you dont want to look in an EVF for 45 minutes as you may if you are covering a soccer game for instance.

The build of the 7D is much more robust, the AF is probably better, and I guess the buffer is larger.

--
http://dslr-video.com/blogmag/

Ehh, an EVF has its advantages too
With an MF lens, want to see if something is sharp as it can be? Magnify it
Too dark to see through your OVF? Let the gain take care of it
Instant exposure feedback
100% coverage

Auto ISO option in manual mode!
--
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain! The Great Oz has spoken!"

• Jon

Here's a list I have found from Wiki, it gives you Canon's description of the type of camera a series is:

Semi-professional and mid-range cameras:
EOS D30 (discontinued)
EOS D60 (discontinued)
EOS 10D (discontinued)
EOS 20D (discontinued)
EOS 20Da (discontinued) – designed for astrophotography
EOS 30D (discontinued)
EOS 40D (discontinued)
EOS 50D (discontinued)
EOS 60D
EOS 60Da – designed for astrophotography

Premium cameras:
APS-C sensor
EOS 7D
Full-frame sensor
EOS 5D (discontinued)
EOS 5D Mark II
EOS 5D Mark III

Professional cameras:
EOS-1D (discontinued)
EOS-1Ds (discontinued)
EOS-1D Mark II (discontinued)
EOS-1Ds Mark II (discontinued)
EOS-1D Mark II N (discontinued)
EOS-1D Mark III (discontinued)
EOS-1Ds Mark III (discontinued)
EOS-1D Mark IV (discontinued)
EOS-1D X
EOS-1D C (announced April 2012, available later in 2012; cinema-oriented)

Even though a camera is not listed as a "pro" camera it still can be extensively used by Pro's. For example the 5 series is the choice of many wedding photographers.

How do you know your heading towards a pro camera? It has no flash...lol!
--
"Photography is, indeed, an inclusive language."
Ansel Adams

rsn48 said:

rsn48 wrote:
How do you know your heading towards a pro camera? It has no flash...lol!

Click to expand...

My H3D-39 has a flash, is that not considered a pro camera?

--
John W

Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer, but wish we didn't - Erica Jong:

--

The one serious conviction one should hold is that nothing should be taken too seriously.

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain an idea without necessarily accepting it. -Aristotle
..oh, and I see by the lack of responses that I am right yet again.