Loosing faith in Apple, need current recommendations for PC for Adobe use

Having been a loyal 25+ year Mac addict I have finally lost faith. I've wasted the better part of this year for a decent update. It's not so much the cost factor than it is buying a machine that it near the end of its life cycle.

For professional use I could get by with just Lightroom, Photoshop, After Effects, and Premier. For video I am a FCP user but am happy to switch to Premier if it means I finally get a new computer and not one that's 400+ days old (current Macs).

I am not a gamer. I don't see much need for a blazing graphics card (my needs are more CPU based).

I would like to spend ~$3000 for computer and 27" monitor. I know NOTHING of PCs.

Does anyone have any recommendations?

Are you really sure you'll be happy making the switch from OSX to Windows 7/8?

I know the MP is still maybe 6 to 12 months from an update (Unless they spring something new in Sept/Oct) but updates are certainly coming.

But as to what kind of PC if you have to get a faster computer now and none of the current macs appeal... get a fast i7 CPU, lots of RAM and a decent GPU (You do need one even if you don't realise it).

Thanks for the reply.

You mention waiting another 6-12 months... Well I've been waiting over 12 months already and it has been a complete waste of time. I am positive you are correct that an update is around the corner, maybe even just a month for the iMac, but we've been saying that for a year. Finally all signs pointed to this spring...nothing. At this point I have never been more certain an update is "just around the corner" but I can't describe how much a waste of my life it has been waiting this long already. To be blunt, I've never been unhappier with Apple.

Regarding recommendations, are there any turnkey recommendations you have?

Just for fun I selected an HP Desktop and maxed out every single component spec except for a mid-range graphics card. Includes a premium warranty.

$2,437
Your HPE h8-1320t series

Windows 7 Professional [64-bit] edit

CPU 3rd Generation Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770K quad-core processor [3.5GHz, 8MB Shared Cache] edit
Memory 16GB DDR3-1333MHz SDRAM [4 DIMMs] edit
Hard drive 256GB Solid state drive edit
Secondary Hard Drive 1TB 7200 rpm SATA hard drive edit
Third hard drive 1TB 7200 rpm SATA hard drive edit
Graphics card 2GB DDR3 AMD Radeon HD 7570 [DVI, HDMI, DP & VGA via adapter] edit
Power Supply 460W Power supply edit
Primary optical drive Blu-ray writer & SuperMulti DVD burner edit
Networking Wireless-N LAN card (1x1) edit

Productivity ports 15-in-1 memory card reader, 2 USB 2.0 (front), 2 USB 3.0 (top) edit
Sound Card Beats Audio (tm) -- integrated studio quality sound edit
Keyboard and Mouse Premium HP keyboard and optical mouse edit

Included Software Bundle FREE Adobe(R) Premiere Elements & Photoshop 10 [$149 value] edit

Maybe I am mistaken, but will you need to buy PC versions of the software you own ?

If you really want to get a PC, and you live in North America, maybe these folks:

http://www.pugetsystems.com/

But I just wonder if you're going to regret this. It will be a big changeover, and even if I am a PC guy (never owned a Mac), I don't really think PCs are so much better.

I'm so sorry you have wasted your life by spending so much effort on waiting for Apple to please you. If I was you I would have learned a new skill, or gone hiking... anything to keep my mind busy.

Apple have said new pro machines are coming next year, so consider that a new range to replace the MP. If they were planning on a simple refresh we'd have had it by now. When exactly? Who knows. What exactly? Who knows.

As to iMacs, of course they'll come out this Autumn. These things with Apple are not difficult to predict. I would 'expect' a new design, but we're guaranteed new CPUs, USB3.0 & fast SSD options that's for sure. I'd wager we'll see new iMacs on sale around the time windows 8 comes out... Apple will of course want their new machines to be mentioned when news outlets talk about windows 8 being on general release.

I (like you) was waiting for Apple to release an updated 'pro' machine, but unlike you I absolutely have to run a genuine Mac. When the iMac / MacPro ranges didn't get updated I bought a top of the range retina macbook pro. In my CPU tasks it's (Not joking!) 2000% faster than my 2009 dual core machine it's replacing so I'm happy.

If you are happing making the switch to windows and don't have building PCs as a hobby then get yourself a desktop from the likes of Dell or HP. I've had good experience with both and would quite happily purchase either again.

Disclaimer: I'm a mac and PC user but prefer macs as I no longer have to time to tweak my computers as I used to. My main machine is a rMBP but it also has a win 7 boot configured for when I wish to run software that is only available on that platform. I have a regular PC (i7 based) for use as a HTPC, I'd rather it a mac but I had the hardware around so it made sense to use it.

Again make 100% sure you're happy going to windows. You'll be switching OS and having to cross licence all your software. Either of these could be enough to put you off.

The best option is to build your own (not that hard and far more value), if not, I would go with Dell and try to config something to your liking.

If youre looking for a laptop, i highly recommedn the VAIO Z, which is what im using.

sethmarshall said:

Having been a loyal 25+ year Mac addict I have finally lost faith. I've wasted the better part of this year for a decent update. It's not so much the cost factor than it is buying a machine that it near the end of its life cycle.

For professional use I could get by with just Lightroom, Photoshop, After Effects, and Premier. For video I am a FCP user but am happy to switch to Premier if it means I finally get a new computer and not one that's 400+ days old (current Macs).

I am not a gamer. I don't see much need for a blazing graphics card (my needs are more CPU based).

I would like to spend ~$3000 for computer and 27" monitor. I know NOTHING of PCs.

Does anyone have any recommendations?

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If you are going to run After effect, I think GPU does matter.
Is it CS5 or CS6?
Gigabyte does pretty good job on PC side, you can try them.

If you google Harm Millard he is a great source on info re pc requirements for premier and after effects. He is on the adobe premier forum.

sethmarshall said:

Having been a loyal 25+ year Mac addict I have finally lost faith. I've wasted the better part of this year for a decent update. It's not so much the cost factor than it is buying a machine that it near the end of its life cycle.

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Exactly what Mac are you using right now, and what issues are you having with it (or why do you think a new machine running Windows is a better way to go)?

Just because Apple hasn't upgraded some of their models for a while doesn't make them worse that today's offerings, depending on what you need in a PC.

I haven't used an Apple in many years. But, if I already had a high end Apple of recent vintage, I'm not so sure I'd be in a hurry to swap it out for something else either.

There's no rule that says you have to upgrade every xx number of months if a machine meets your needs. For example, it sounds like you're doing a lot of work with video. So, perhaps a video card upgrade may be a better bet tha replacing a perfectly good machine, as a lot of newer software can take advantage of faster video cards for processing video (or for other purposes, too). Or, perhaps you've got some drive bottlenecks that could be solved with some upgrades.

Sure... we can give you suggestions on a new system for a few grand.

If I really wanted to spend that much and needed a big performance boost, I'd probably lean towards a box with Sandy Bridge E CPU in it with 6 Physical Cores supporting 12 threads. For example, something like a Core i7 3930K. I'd probably load it up with memory, use an SSD for the OS and Programs, another SSD for working data, and a fast physical hard drive setup for archive purposes; along with a state-of-the-art video card for use with the latest software that could take advantage of a faster GPU.

I'd probably use this configurator as a base and tweak it if going with a custom build. For example, change the CPU to the Core i7 3930K, upgrade the memory to 16GB or more, go with a 256GB SSD (probably a Samsung 830 series) for the OS and Programs, go with a Samsung 512GB 830 series SSD for working data, and perhaps a 2TB drive for archive purposes, install a newer video card model (Nvidia GT 670 or similar), etc.

http://www.avadirect.com/workstation-pc-configurator.asp?PRID=22749

But, I wouldn't rush out to spend a few grand without good reason either.

So, you may want to give forum members a better idea of what you're using now and what issues you're seeing with it for better suggestions; as just because your Mac model may not have the latest CPU in it doesn't mean it's not going to do the job for you with other upgrades that you may be able to make to it.

--
JimC

Jen Yates said:

Jen Yates said:

In my CPU tasks it's (Not joking!) 2000% faster than my 2009 dual core machine it's replacing so I'm happy.

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"2000% faster" is typically what you get from a $600 Dell -vs- the top of the line Mac Pro 15 months older.

At least you Mac Heads aren't crying over altivec going bye bye any more, so we're making progress.

I'd say 70% of my hard core Mac friends are running Windows based PC alongside their iMacs and increasingly aging Mac Pros. The reason is simple economics. Unlike Apple, which has a fairly linear curve in terms of Price / Performance, the general PC industry has a logarithmic curve which starts out gradual and then get's pricey. For far less than a grand you get more performance out of the windows machine than you could dream of for the Mac at 3x the price. They have the PC crunch the general tasks and use their OSX box for tight workflow stuff and specific apps where they need the tight OS integration of the Apple platform.

Top of the line PC's are akin to buying an economy car decked out with a premium trim package. Totally stupid, and nothing but gravy for the dealer. Nobody I know spends $3,000 for a PC, let alone $2,000, or wants power sucking server processors on their desktop. I don't spend that much for blades in my server farm.

If you really want the latest and greatest over priced Intel processor be my guest. Most of the common sense folk on the PC will wait and spend less than $1,000 for a machine with 90% of the performance. That's where the real price saving and top performance is. My 12gig quad core i7 cost less than $600 scratch and dent from Dell. Equivelany Mac Pro over $3,000. if it even exists. The money saved got me a nice dSLR upgrade.

sethmarshall said:

Having been a loyal 25+ year Mac addict I have finally lost faith. I've wasted the better part of this year for a decent update. It's not so much the cost factor than it is buying a machine that it near the end of its life cycle.

For professional use I could get by with just Lightroom, Photoshop, After Effects, and Premier. For video I am a FCP user but am happy to switch to Premier if it means I finally get a new computer and not one that's 400+ days old (current Macs).

I am not a gamer. I don't see much need for a blazing graphics card (my needs are more CPU based).

I would like to spend ~$3000 for computer and 27" monitor. I know NOTHING of PCs.

Does anyone have any recommendations?

Click to expand...

Yes - buy a Mac Pro. Buy a superseded one if you like.

I did ... and I built a PC games machine for Christmas. It wasn't cheap, and hasn't been close to bulletproof. Its noisy too, despite water cooling.

For instance, a Quad Core Xeon Mac Pro "refurb" (most likely its never been used just superseded), costs in the USA, $1,900. You can upgrade it to 6 core, for under $500. Or just leave it until you need to upgrade the performance by 70%.

The twin CPU machine costs $2,700. It cost much more to upgrade (having two CPUs), and its Xeon processors being the 5 series need to be used, due to the twin operation. But ... they'll get cheaper next year too ... but if you need bang for buck now, go the single, and upgrade to 6 core if you need more speed.

By the way, the power supply in all the Pros is 1200 watts, and the best quality. The case is excellent quality. The same quality as the $4,500 machines. Xeon is stable - its a workstation.

Add some RAM - that will cost more than a PC, because its error correcting RAM. But .. that's why its reliable.

Drives etc are just PC drives. They take two minutes to install. Pull the plugs out, de-stat place, remove the door, slide out the drive bay, put in the drive, slide it back, close the latches, put the door back, close door catch, plug in, turn on, off you go.

Time machine - pop in a 3GB green drive for $150, turn on time machine, you have great back-up, and you can go back to earlier work.

Buy a NEC 24" spectra view with calibration software monitor for $1,200. Then you get reliable colour.

$1900 + extra drive = 2050. Plus screen $3,200. Plus RAM $200 = $3,400. Plus an SSD boot drive for $200. $3,600.

And it is easy to upgrade, has a genuine second hand price (it will not disappear in value), and it will be bulletproof.

You'll then get workstation reliability, and quite a lot of performance. You will save when adding disks etc. A USB 3 card is cheap for them. Plug in an SSD - it takes a couple of minutes to do so.

They start at under $2k now.

The tough thing then is the screen. Spend some money on that, say a NEC PA 24" and the Versa hardware calibration system, and you'll be eating next years iMacs for dust.

Scott Eaton said:

For far less than a grand you get more performance out of the windows machine than you could dream of for the Mac at 3x the price.

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You'll need to update your propaganda a bit. Since Apple has moved to the same parts, the price deltas between them and similar brand PCs had dropped substantially. They, like Dell or HP, still overcharge for memory and SSD upgrades from base configurations, so there's some potential gain for the DIY crowd there.

I want to thank everyone for the replies. Very excellent points made all around.

For those confused about why I need a new computer I'll explain. I am a DP (videographer) and hobbyist photographer. I don't "need" a new system professionally since as a videographer I pass on my footage to an editor. But I need a good system to move ahead in my career with personal projects, reels, and my photography -- all related to the success of my business.

Currently I have a 2009 17" MacBookPro tricked out to the highest end including eSATA tempo pro card and RAID 0, and internal SSDs. I do not plan to get another laptop unless I need it. I have an aging one now which suits my needs, I need a desktop.

Of course I would love to have a Mac, but it's disgusting how old their hardware is. http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#iMac

If I could get a similarly spec'd Dell or HP as the current highest end iMac (or better yet Ivy Bridge) under $1000 I would love to have a link. I guess I should start searching.

sethmarshall said:

I want to thank everyone for the replies. Very excellent points made all around.

For those confused about why I need a new computer I'll explain. I am a DP (videographer) and hobbyist photographer. I don't "need" a new system professionally since as a videographer I pass on my footage to an editor. But I need a good system to move ahead in my career with personal projects, reels, and my photography -- all related to the success of my business.

Currently I have a 2009 17" MacBookPro tricked out to the highest end including eSATA tempo pro card and RAID 0, and internal SSDs. I do not plan to get another laptop unless I need it. I have an aging one now which suits my needs, I need a desktop.

Of course I would love to have a Mac, but it's disgusting how old their hardware is. http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#iMac

If I could get a similarly spec'd Dell or HP as the current highest end iMac (or better yet Ivy Bridge) under $1000 I would love to have a link. I guess I should start searching.

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What do you have against the rMBP? It is incredibly fast, portable, and has an excellent screen.

I scoffed when I saw the specs on the rMBP. My wife bought one for her animation work, design, etc. I used it and came away very impressed.

I currently use an i7-3770k @ 4.8GHz, GTX 670, and Gen5 SSD. Her little machine is 90% as fast as my behemoth full-ATX tower. I am seriously considering dumping my desktop for a rMBP. SERIOUSLY considering it. You should too.

AShimon said:

What do you have against the rMBP? It is incredibly fast, portable, and has an excellent screen.

I scoffed when I saw the specs on the rMBP. My wife bought one for her animation work, design, etc. I used it and came away very impressed.

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You are talking from real experience. Me, I am talking from idle speculation. So your comments count more.

But even so, desktop machines are better at getting rid of heat. They have the big case, and the fans, etc.

Portables age more quickly, because they can't dissipate the heat as well. It's a trade off, if you really need a machine that is portable. But if you don't need a machine that is portable, one should get a desktop machine.

But that's just me talking. Maybe it's not so really true. I don't know.

dmartin92 said:

AShimon said:

What do you have against the rMBP? It is incredibly fast, portable, and has an excellent screen.

I scoffed when I saw the specs on the rMBP. My wife bought one for her animation work, design, etc. I used it and came away very impressed.

Click to expand...

You are talking from real experience. Me, I am talking from idle speculation. So your comments count more.

But even so, desktop machines are better at getting rid of heat. They have the big case, and the fans, etc.

Portables age more quickly, because they can't dissipate the heat as well. It's a trade off, if you really need a machine that is portable. But if you don't need a machine that is portable, one should get a desktop machine.

But that's just me talking. Maybe it's not so really true. I don't know.

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My wife has a 2005 15" MBP as well. It gets right well bloody hot after an hour on your lap. The 2012 model barely gets warm to the touch. She has pushed it pretty hard, as well. Running animations in Maya, creating content in illustrator/photoshop, and modeling in ZBrush, across two monitors - simultaneously. No slowdowns. No hiccups. No heat.

In this user's opinion - the 2012 15" rMBP is the best laptop ever produced. Maybe the best personal computer ever produced. Maybe.

sethmarshall said:

I want to thank everyone for the replies. Very excellent points made all around.

For those confused about why I need a new computer I'll explain. I am a DP (videographer) and hobbyist photographer. I don't "need" a new system professionally since as a videographer I pass on my footage to an editor. But I need a good system to move ahead in my career with personal projects, reels, and my photography -- all related to the success of my business.

Currently I have a 2009 17" MacBookPro tricked out to the highest end including eSATA tempo pro card and RAID 0, and internal SSDs. I do not plan to get another laptop unless I need it. I have an aging one now which suits my needs, I need a desktop.

Of course I would love to have a Mac, but it's disgusting how old their hardware is. http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#iMac

If I could get a similarly spec'd Dell or HP as the current highest end iMac (or better yet Ivy Bridge) under $1000 I would love to have a link. I guess I should start searching.

Click to expand...

Post Nehalem and Westmere workstations are available in Win computers. Expect to pay $4 to $7k for twin CPU 12 core unit.

As far as video goes, the (really non pro) Final Cut X software does actually nicely utilise all a Xeon's cores. The problem with multi core, is that software doesn't handle it too well - at the moment at least - but some does.

As far as Macs are concerned, they have some strengths, and weaknesses. About the slower architecture - its about 15% slower, for the same CPU clock speed, ignoring multi-thread issues. And in some cases, Win handles things better, but in some too, it doesn't, vis a vis OS X. Although the lead that OS X had is on average probably gone south to being not as efficient CPU wise. Plus there are compatibility issues - but then, such issues are what really hurts home builds. And why an HP workstation still costs real money.

If you want a workstation like a Mac Pro, then you should realise, that an 5xxx Xeon processor, start at around $700 - each. So for two of them, well ... you are not going to get a Xeon for under $1,000.

Are you using your Macbook Pro under windows, or under Mac OS?

And if your serious about a workstation - which is what a Mac Pro is - then don't forget a decent monitor. A colour calibrated 24" will start at $1,000, and go up from there. So - your budget seems too low. The games machine I built for Xmas was moving to $2k, with only an i5 - 2500k , and a low cost Dell IPS 24" bought on special.

It all comes down to the OS. From a price/performance standpoint, a Windows PC blows away Apple. An equivalent Apple computer is 2-3 times more expensive than a PC. In the last 3 months I've bought a new Windows laptop and a new Windows desktop. I gave Apple a look since I like Apple (I have multiple Ipods, Ipads and Iphones in my family). I was shocked at the price premium you pay for Apple computers. IMO, you've got to really LOVE the OS to justify the price. With online coupons, I got an HP very high end desktop and very high end laptop for around $1000 each. Equivalent Apple products would have been $2000+ each.

I don't own an Apple computer and never have, so I can't compare on merits, only on price/performance (processor, RAM, hard drive, GPU, etc). From what I have read, loyal Apple users say the price differential is well worth it and you get what you pay for. I've never been able to justify it myself. It doesn't help that a friend of mine just switched from a Windows PC to Apple iMac, and she has mixed feelings about it. She likes her new iMaC, but she's struggling a bit to see what all the Apple hype is all about. She likes it, in fact she likes it alot, but she is not IN LOVE with it. Also, at least for now, her biggest issue is the steep learning curve. She thought it would be an easier transition. I would say that she is a fairly typical user. Not a power user by any means, but reasonably tech savy (maybe a 6 or 7 on a scale of 1-10). She said if she had it to do over, she would have stayed with Windows, just because that is what she knows. For her, the price difference, and the time investment to learn an entirely new OS, have not been worth it. Perhaps that will change over time.