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Collecting "freeze" data for 7D bodies running V2 firmware
- Thread starter mtnredhed
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- canon eos 7d nikon 1 v2
Larry Wallis
Well-known member
I’ve been following the lock-up threads with interest. In my case I followed the instructions with the exception of formatting the CF card (I didn’t, I just made sure, in Windows, that the file was in the correct location and there was nothing “dodgy” in the root directory).
My auto power off is set to 1 minute, but so far, touch wood, I’ve not had a lock-up. I probably do not use my camera as much as some of the people on this forum mind you.
The main point of this posting is to say that in many years of problem solving in hardware and software, I have come across instances where we upgrade/change something or work on a fault and either immediately, or a short time later, something else breaks. The obvious conclusion is it is something we have done. Indeed if this happens on a client’s equipment the response is ALWAYS “That was working fine before you guys fiddled with it”.
Of course, it CAN be the change that causes the new problem, but sometimes it is a pure coincidence. The new problem has absolutely nothing to do with what we have done; convincing anyone this is the case is, however, virtually impossible!
Reading the many posts on the lock-up topic, I also wonder on whether people with older cameras have more problems than those with newer ones (I’ve only had my camera for a few weeks). Does the new FW cause a higher short-term current requirement from the battery such that older batteries/slightly dirty contacts result in a short time drop in voltage that would cause a lock-up? I would guess too low a voltage would upset current hungry mechanical operations as well.
So, putting two and two together and making six and three quarters, have you tried cleaning all the lens and battery contacts?
Larry Wallis
Steve Balcombe
Forum Pro
Quite the opposite - it's in the nature of bugs that they occur only occasionally, and often due to some combination of circumstances that's hard to identify and/or replicate.
Ronnie Potgieter
Leading Member
My 7D is 3 years old (Oct 2009), but only clocked 4500 actuations.
However, I have shot many bursts since v2, auto off to 1 min, but cant get any freezes/lock-ups. I have been using my current Sandisk extreme 111, 30mb/s. I have just got a 60 mb/s Sandisk and still checking.
Body no: 0230210821
Regards
Ronnie.
--
http://www.pbase.com/ronniedp
http://www.ronniepotgieter.co.za
However, I have shot many bursts since v2, auto off to 1 min, but cant get any freezes/lock-ups. I have been using my current Sandisk extreme 111, 30mb/s. I have just got a 60 mb/s Sandisk and still checking.
Body no: 0230210821
Regards
Ronnie.
--
http://www.pbase.com/ronniedp
http://www.ronniepotgieter.co.za
Hmm! That's 6 in 9 days (less than 1 a day) from all the worldwide users on this forum. Seems within normal parameters to me.
Are there more freezes under FW 2 than under 1.2.5?? I regularly read about someone with error 99 or some other error under 1.2.5.
I had the occasional lockup under 1.2.5. (perhaps 3 times in the last 33 months). This may have been due to a knock, atmospheric conditions, humidity, etc. Once, in a steamy rainforest, it lasted for a couple of hours until humidity levels were lower. In the other cases, removing the battery fixed the problem. The old 'turn it off and on again' solution.
Unless there were a large proportion of upgraders who had problems, I can't see any problem with FW 2. I've had no problems with it in the past week. Have done several burst tests and have power-off set to 1 min.
Modern cameras are complex devices. They're computers and occasionally malfunction. Of course, it's terrible if it happens to you, but an occasional lockup doesn't mean a general fault with FW 2.
--
Phil Wallace
http://www.birdmad.co.uk
Larry, I absolutely agree with you including the point about psychology. It's a pet peeve of mine.
However, one important thing to note in this case is that (at least as far as I know), the symptom being reported has never been reported by anybody during the nearly 3 years since the 7D has been released. In the past, we've heard plenty of cases where the camera "locks up", showing a numbered error on the screen. And I believe these cases always occurred immediately after firing the shutter.
But the symptoms of this particular lockup are quite different. There is no error number shown on the screen. And it begins after 1 minute of inactivity on the camera. I've never heard of any lockup resembling this, until the new firmware release (somebody PLEASE correct me if I am wrong on this point, which is possible!!) Given the number of reports, I think it's very unlikely this was just a coincidence. I've also found independent communities (separated by languages... I searched Japanese message boards) finding the same symptoms at the same time, so it's unlikely we have a "mass hysteria" effect here either.
By contrast, in this thread (and others) we are sometimes seeing reports of different symptoms, like an "Err 20". I'm inclined to think, sadly for the owners, that those simply are a coincidence and the ready-to-fail hardware just happened to go kaput shortly after the firmware was installed. Err 20 is something that has always been a risk. It happens to people regularly, and it was bound to happen to somebody right after they happened to upgrade the firmware.
But the numbered error lockups are not really the case we're discussing in this thread.
Given that the lockup seems to be occurring 1 minute after final shooting activity, I am a little skeptical about this line of reasoning, but I guess it's possible.
By the way, in my personal case, I had heavy lockups for the first 2-3 days (during which I was doing heavy shooting, including lots of 8fps sequences). In the nearly 2 weeks since then, I have not had a single lockup. I've been shooting much less, though.
No, still at 1min, wanted to leave everything unchanged for a few days to see if the problem stays or goes away.
It has obviously stayed so next thing is that I will change auto power off time to longer and eventually disable it.
I appreciate that I appear to be in a small minority reporting problems but that is little consolation to me right now, is it. I know that my camera is now pretty much guaranteed a lock-up at some point during, say, 30 mins casual shooting. And the other day it was 3 times over the space of an hour or so.
So as things stand I'm left with an otherwise nice camera but an increasingly annoying fault.
What else do I do.
The body is about 2 years old (or rather 2 yrs since purchase, how do I know how long it was sitting on the shelf for)?
It has obviously stayed so next thing is that I will change auto power off time to longer and eventually disable it.
I appreciate that I appear to be in a small minority reporting problems but that is little consolation to me right now, is it. I know that my camera is now pretty much guaranteed a lock-up at some point during, say, 30 mins casual shooting. And the other day it was 3 times over the space of an hour or so.
So as things stand I'm left with an otherwise nice camera but an increasingly annoying fault.
What else do I do.
The body is about 2 years old (or rather 2 yrs since purchase, how do I know how long it was sitting on the shelf for)?
Stop being a masochist! Change your auto-power-off setting. Disable it or set it to 2 minutes. There is not a single report yet, that I have seen (including Japanese message boards) where a lockup occurred after changing it.
There's probably not enough data to know for sure that this truly prevents the problem. But if you change it and still get a lockup, you'll be the first counterexample I know of.
...in Oct. 2009, right after purchasing my 7d, I've experienced (FW 1.09)
the exact symptoms of the freeze-ups described now by many with the
FW 2.0 - no err. message was ever displayed; and the only solution was
to take out the main battery and wait. I did report it then, although the
root of the matter might have been different = the problem did repeat
itself intermittently, and as I connected it in my mind with the use of
just few lenses, which prior to those episodes spent quite a time in a closet,
my immediate idea was to clean lens and body contacts very vigorously,
almost abrasively - and voila that cured it, so the issue was pushed to far
reaches at the back of my mind - until now
jpr2
--
~
street candids (non-interactive):
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157609618638319/
music and dance:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341265280/
B&W:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623306407882/
wildlife & macro:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341377106/
interactive street:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623181919323/
Comments and critique are always welcome!
~
M
mcslsk
Guest
Set your freeking time-out to 2 minutes and move on.
Larry Wallis
Well-known member
Topaz, I think we are saying the same thing, but I realise my post was perhaps not as clear as it should have been! My discussion was in relation to thx1138’s post about the err 20 message where, very reasonably in psychological terms(!), the FW update appears to be the cause.
In terms of the well discussed lock-up problem, I personally believe this is a genuine issue which will occur in the circumstances of x, y and z… the minor problem is working out what x, y and z are!
My suggestion of cleaning the various contacts was also primarily related to the err 20 message, but, if (a big if) there is some sort of low voltage issue, it may be worth anyone with the lock-up trying to clean the battery contacts. I realise this argument is weak because I think I’ve read (I’ve lost track of the various posts now!) of people using more than one battery, including fairly new ones, and still getting the problem.
Larry Wallis
In terms of the well discussed lock-up problem, I personally believe this is a genuine issue which will occur in the circumstances of x, y and z… the minor problem is working out what x, y and z are!
My suggestion of cleaning the various contacts was also primarily related to the err 20 message, but, if (a big if) there is some sort of low voltage issue, it may be worth anyone with the lock-up trying to clean the battery contacts. I realise this argument is weak because I think I’ve read (I’ve lost track of the various posts now!) of people using more than one battery, including fairly new ones, and still getting the problem.
Larry Wallis
Larry Wallis
Well-known member
jpr2: just spotted you post after posting mine… what can I say but “Wow”!!
So many variables… it would be great fun to be working in Canon’s FW department right now.
Larry Wallis
So many variables… it would be great fun to be working in Canon’s FW department right now.
Larry Wallis
I understand your frustration and really appreciate your continued input here.
As others have suggested (perhaps a bit impolitely) it would really be useful to get your experience with changing the auto power off.
As one of the very few people who consistently sees the problem, and is willing to report your experience here, your testing of the auto power off 'fix' could be invaluable.
Phil.
--
http://www.pbase.com/phil_a_mitchell
OK, so do you want me to change power off timer to a longer duration (can't recall menu options) or disable it altogether?
I understand your frustration and really appreciate your continued input here.
As others have suggested (perhaps a bit impolitely) it would really be useful to get your experience with changing the auto power off.
As one of the very few people who consistently sees the problem, and is willing to report your experience here, your testing of the auto power off 'fix' could be invaluable.
Phil.
--
http://www.pbase.com/phil_a_mitchell
- the 7d battery contacts involve not only (easily accessible) pair on the battery, but also their counterparts inside camera; by the way it would be a good occasion to clean also two sets of honey-combed contacts for a grip;
- a speaking of contacts - there is a huge number of them inside each body: wheels, buttons, joystick, battery, grip, lenses, and last but not least various electronic ribbons and joint-contacts for linking PCBs;
- all of them prone to get a thin film of deposits from moisture, smoke (tobacco and smog-related tars are particularly obnoxious), kitchen, and also our own breathing;
- did you ever experience intermittent malfunctions of cameras taken out of prolonged [supposedly safe, dry, smoke free, etc.] storage closets and shelves - which disappear after a bit of rubbing & cleaning?
--
~
street candids (non-interactive):
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157609618638319/
music and dance:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341265280/
B&W:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623306407882/
wildlife & macro:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341377106/
interactive street:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623181919323/
Comments and critique are always welcome!
~
jpr2, thanks very much for mentioning that. It's new information for me. I guess this lockup symptom is not as unique or brand-new as I had imagined. Well, that lowers my confidence that the lockups are caused by a new bug in the 2.0 firmware. I was 99% confident before, but now I'd say I'm only 80% confident....in Oct. 2009, right after purchasing my 7d, I've experienced (FW 1.09)
the exact symptoms of the freeze-ups described now by many with the
FW 2.0 - no err. message was ever displayed; and the only solution was
to take out the main battery and wait. I did report it then, although the
root of the matter might have been different = the problem did repeat
itself intermittently, and as I connected it in my mind with the use of
just few lenses, which prior to those episodes spent quite a time in a closet,
my immediate idea was to clean lens and body contacts very vigorously,
almost abrasively - and voila that cured it, so the issue was pushed to far
reaches at the back of my mind - until now
I guess there is a small chance this is related to dirty contacts or some other random glitch, and a number of users just got unlucky, happened to experience it after the firmware install, and assumed the firmware was the cause. But still, I think the lockups without an error number were, at best, exceedingly rare before and seem to be much more frequent after the FW upgrade.
I am been shooting with an early 7D updated with FW 2.0 since it became available, no issues. Made about 400 images over a 2.5 hour span shooting football. My power setting has always been set at four minutes, and I did not alter the setting.
Best of luck to others
Sure do wish auto ISO would work past ISO 400 with flash attached though!
Rick
Best of luck to others
Sure do wish auto ISO would work past ISO 400 with flash attached though!
Rick
...of some device, logic gate, or a SW flag, pretty often is correlated,jpr2, thanks very much for mentioning that. It's new information for me. I guess this lockup symptom is not as unique or brand-new as I had imagined. Well, that lowers my confidence that the lockups are caused by a new bug in the 2.0 firmware. I was 99% confident before, but now I'd say I'm only 80% confident....in Oct. 2009, right after purchasing my 7d, I've experienced (FW 1.09)
the exact symptoms of the freeze-ups described now by many with the
FW 2.0 - no err. message was ever displayed; and the only solution was
to take out the main battery and wait. I did report it then, although the
root of the matter might have been different = the problem did repeat
itself intermittently, and as I connected it in my mind with the use of
just few lenses, which prior to those episodes spent quite a time in a closet,
my immediate idea was to clean lens and body contacts very vigorously,
almost abrasively - and voila that cured it, so the issue was pushed to far
reaches at the back of my mind - until now
I guess there is a small chance this is related to dirty contacts or some other random glitch, and a number of users just got unlucky, happened to experience it after the firmware install, and assumed the firmware was the cause. But still, I think the lockups without an error number were, at best, exceedingly rare before and seem to be much more frequent after the FW upgrade.
directly or indirectly, with localized measurements of electrical phenomena,
so I think the chance is pretty high that changed FW logic might in
fact be in direct connection with such intermittent consequences of
poor electronic contacts
,jpr2
--
~
street candids (non-interactive):
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157609618638319/
music and dance:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341265280/
B&W:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623306407882/
wildlife & macro:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341377106/
interactive street:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623181919323/
Comments and critique are always welcome!
~
Flying Fish
Senior Member
I didn't study this as carefully as perhaps I should have, but while at the Grand Canyon this past May, my 7D suddenly quit working. I couldn't get it to respond to anything. I took it to my room, replaced the battery with my spare, replaced the lens with another, repeated, waited, and after 45 minutes it came back to life. Almost no problem since except once last week the viewfinder got very dim for a few seconds and the camera wouldn't fire; I turned it off and then on and it was fine. I have not updated the firmware since the camera totally failed in December 2010 and had to have the circuit board replaced.
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