OM-D compared to GH2 -- my thoughts (LONG)

You really don't read very well, do you?
Since I don't even own a MFT system and am trying to work out whether it should be a Panasonic Vs an Olympus body... my first thought is to straight off go and buy the OMD because your use of language sounds... well...

Advantage: OM-D, I suppose, but just barely.
"just barely" is accurate, for my needs. There's so little real advantage after weighing the tradeoffs it is a tiny advantage. And not one that's real important to the way I shoot.
Advantage: Oly But I’m not as happy with the OM-D in some other respects.
Tow different subjects that you've merged together. Yes, the OM-D has some advantages, but also some problems. Is that a hard concept for you to understand?
Given that IBIS doesn’t take anything away, I "have to" give the Oly the advantage here. Advantage: Oly
You're reading more into the language than is there. I think maybe you're the fan boy, in spite of your claims not to own either. Would your opinion change if I wrote "I give the Oly the advantage here"?

Did you get to the conclusion, or stop reading because my opinion doesn't match yours? I said that IBIS is an advantage of the Oly. Just not enough of one to balance the flaws, FOR ME.
...like pure fanboyism.
Yep, your response certainly does.

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I've told myself to stop using "equivalent" focal lengths on m43. 25mm is what it is, and what it might be similar to on some other format doesn't matter to me any more. We need to learn what to expect from our current equipment, not keep mapping it to the old. No one refers to their 50mm FF lens as "equivalent to 80mm on MF."
 
An interesting read, not 100% accurate (as already pointed out) but as an owner of a GH2 and an OM-D i agree with a lot of what you say, especially as far as ergonomics and the poor UI of the OM-D.

A strong 'win' to the GH2 is the video quality - it's far better than the OM-D, making the GH2 a true hybrid compared to the 'add-on' video feel of the OM-D.

Another huge win to the GH2 is the in-camera processing of lens distortion and CA, BUT against the GH2 is lack of in-body OIS...

The one thing I don't like about the GH2 is it's poor rendering of skin tones - I have tried adjusting a lot of the in-camera settings but I still can't get skin-tones to be realistic and I'm NOT going to switch to RAW to sort this. A camera of this expense and complexity should be able to produce a decent skin-tone in it's jpg output - it doesn't, not reliably anyway...

The OMD does excellent OOC jpg with great skin tones and that to me is a huge win...

At the end of the day I really enjoy using both cameras.

I was going to sell the GH2 (at a large loss) but now the dust and excitement of owning and using the OM-D is subsiding I'm now sitting on the fence as to which one to sell (maybe neither!)

I love using the OM-D more then the GH2 I think! There is something about that retro-style and feel that is hard to describe but it just makes it the one I grab as my favourite unless I actively think about what I am about to shoot and could the GH2 do it better and in some cases it would....

I do think your comparison is somewhat biased. You sound as though you are trying to justify the GH2 and very negative to the Olympus. I do understand your feelings - in some ways Olympus have made some really stupid decisions in the design of the OM-D, especially with lack of flash, ridiculous tiny seals that are easily lost and last but not least the very poor (in some respects) UI.

In these ways the GH2 wins very easily but then again it's the one I leave in the drawer when I go out for the day....

Oh btw, - regarding the GH2 EVF/LCD auto-switching - I can't seem to make it behave any different to the OM-D - when carrying from a neck-strap it won't go into sleep mode due to the auto-sensor - same as the OM-D???
 
As you said, some features mean more to us as individuals. However you appear to be basically saying the water resistance of the E-M5 is little more than marketing hype.

However reality is that is can handle more than mere humidity ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmdo_K1XIE0

and there are plenty of other similar videos. And other E-M5 user experiences reported already. So who are you kidding saying it is neglible compared to the GH2 sealing - can you show us one one video of a GH2 surviving in a shower?

Having owned an E-1 and 14-54 lens which was similarly rated, it often stood up to drenching rain for nearly two hours at several soccer games over winter, as well as being splashed with saltwater and fish slime when I had it hanging off my shoulder while wading and fishing among sandbanks and mangroves in summer. Done that with a GH2 lately?

For the rest of your comments I can take or leave them as they are about personal preference, but the WR sealing is absolutely a substantial and structurual difference, and frankly its absence is a deal breaker for me ever considering the GH2 for my purposes.

Clear Advantage: E-M5

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Shoot the Light fantastic
 
Unless you folks who've shouted Bias! here have actually owned and shot both E-M5 and GH2 fairly extensively - as has the OP - then guess where the bias lies and the fanboyism sings? Seems to me he was expecting more from the Oly than he could find in the cobbled interface. Don't imagine he bought it just to confirm low expectations

Having had an E-30 and E-PL1, i can attest to the miserable Oly menu experience of nested layers for frequently used functions, and the E-M5 no doubt is even more inexplicable. The spectre of this and the lack of even a single dedicated shooting control - I mean, not even an AEL/AFL button, FGS! - rules this out for me, a GH1-GH2 user who's very happy with the IQ.

Sure, I'd like the extra stop of DR and high ISO cleanness, but new tricks come hard to this old dog now and I look forward to the significant improvements the GH3 is certain to have while keeping its uber-friendly UI.

Pete
 
But biased? Not at all. If I had already decided Panasonic was better I would have never spent the money on the OM-d in the first place.
What you mean to say is you "LIKE" the GH2 better, despite the E-M5 being superior in most (but not all) ways. That's fine, but we need to clarify it.

Going back to your OP, it is pretty obvious how you feel by the way you worded things.

btw, there is nothing wrong with personally prefering the GH2. You even talked about how these are just YOUR opinions and how you didn't really do a side-by-side comparison. You whole post admits you bias.

Again, there is nothing wrong with liking one more than another.
 
It is coming across as wanting the GH2 to win, just in the language used.

Still I appreciate your review, and agree with most of it.

I'm a OMD owner and thinking of getting a GH2 in addition for video use (not to replace). Funny you didn't mention video as its the key thing that's miles ahead of the OMD in most reviews.

As much as I'd like to see what Panasonic comes up with in the GH3, I suspect I won't be able to justify the price. The multi-aspect sensor is one of the most impressive things about the camera though, I'm not sure what other cameras offer that, none in the micro 4/3 world anyway.

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http://www.adventurerob.com
 
Unless you folks who've shouted Bias! here have actually owned and shot both E-M5 and GH2 fairly extensively - as has the OP...
Like me! btw, both are very good cameras and no one should say one is better than the other for EVERYONE (the OP didn't either).

..but, read the OP again and the bias really comes out. He talks about , "I haven’t really done a direct, side-by-side comparison" and how this is just his opinion. Fine, he prefers the GH2. As he said, it's not really a direct, side-by-side comparison.
 
Excellent: Thoughtful and informative !

Thanks Vjim
 
Unless you folks who've shouted Bias! here have actually owned and shot both E-M5 and GH2 fairly extensively - as has the OP - then guess where the bias lies and the fanboyism sings? Seems to me he was expecting more from the Oly than he could find in the cobbled interface. Don't imagine he bought it just to confirm low expectations
I've owned both and I'll say "bias" but I won't shout it because Bob qualified his opinions right up front and is pretty clear about what his review is and what it isn't. I'm biased too - I never got comfortable with the GH2 over the several months I owned it and sold it when the ep3 became available, despite the apparent IQ hit. So I understand fully how personal preferences color our impressions and opinions. I'm as biased as anyone and I just try to be upfront about my biases when I discuss gear so the reader can factor that in. Bob did the same and I don't think we can ask much more than that.
Having had an E-30 and E-PL1, i can attest to the miserable Oly menu experience of nested layers for frequently used functions, and the E-M5 no doubt is even more inexplicable. The spectre of this and the lack of even a single dedicated shooting control - I mean, not even an AEL/AFL button, FGS! - rules this out for me, a GH1-GH2 user who's very happy with the IQ.
You can program any of several buttons as an AFL/AEL button, as well as with many other functions. Yes, the Oly menus are more complex, but the camera is so customizable that you can quickly set it up so you barely have to use them. The only parts of the interface that I really would call "worse" as opposed to "different" is the difficulty of getting to the various bracketing options. And the drive options were obviously more accessible on the GH2, but they're only one click away on the OLY interface, which I've never felt was a burden.
Sure, I'd like the extra stop of DR and high ISO cleanness, but new tricks come hard to this old dog now and I look forward to the significant improvements the GH3 is certain to have while keeping its uber-friendly UI.
I look forward to it myself - the more good cameras out there the better. I won't buy it, but I'm sure I'll benefit from it indirectly.

-Ray
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/collections/72157626204295198/
 
I found your observations interesting. Do you own both cameras? If not, how did you compare them?

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Ramesh
 
I certainly don't think your opinions are invalid Bob. I also wish the SCP would bring up the choice when you touch the selection, I don't mind the linear selection instead of having a grid, though as huge as the ISO lists are getting, a grid might not be a terrible thing.

Bracketing not being able to be assignable to a button normally is a HUGE miss for me even though I don't do bracketing all that much.

I have used my neighbors GH2 pretty extensively and I'd say the DR advantage is closer to 1.5-2 stops. About half tom wo thirds in the shadows and around one to one and a half in the highlights. The shadow noise also has less chroma noise and is more luminance based (and less of it). I'd agree that high ISO noise is maybe only a single stop, but high ISO dynamic range is a lot more than a 2 stop advantage once you get up around ISO3200 or higher.

For IBIS, effectiveness is a wash really against OIS. If it matters to you of course with EVERYTHING is subjective and you mention you pretty much don't use any primes and/or rarely shoot slow shutter speeds wide angle, so IBIS likely dosnt matter for you. On the converse, for people like me who shoot almost only primes, IBIS is a massive, massive advantage as there are no OIS primes (so far and I suspect it is going to be a long time before we see any and might only be telephotos when we do see them).

Weather proofing is a lot better than the minimum rating you suggest, keep in mind, the IPX2 rating you mentoined is HIGH PRESSURE water from 15in. That is way beyond what you'd experience in even a torrential down pour. your pretty much have to blast it with high pressure nozzle on a garden hose to replicate. IPX1 will generally cover any kind of remotely normal rain for hours.

Otherwise on all the stuff that is truely subjective (IBIS, sensor quality and weather proofing are NOT subjective and the OM-d EM-5 is a lot better than the GH2 in those respects, oh and the EVF is a lot better too), that is of course what ever works for you, the EM-5 works for me in most everything else you mentioned and is better than the Gh2 for the reasons you mentioned the Gh2 is better than the EM-5 in all those subjective categories except the SCP sptouch selection and the bracketing. For the non-subjective stuff, the OM-D EM-5 is better except video...though if you need stabilized video it is better in that respect. Now if you don't need or want what the OM-D EM-5 has to offer over the Gh2 in those non-subjective areas, that of course changes how you perceive the camera and it seems to for you, which is truely fine and valid. I don't neednthensupperior video of the GH2, but the video image stabilization of the EM-5 is useful for me.

However, I will have to chime in and say the way you wrote most of your responses was more of a "I am going to be as dismissive of the camera as I possibly can be because I want my GH2 to be the better camera even if it isn't"

It might work for YOU better and for YOU it might be a better tool, but that doesn't necessarily actually make it better overall. I don't need a car that can go 0-60mph in 5s flat, but I can't deny that sports car is a lot faster than my 8s sedan...and hey I like the comfy seats in my 8s sedan more than the seats in the 5s sports car and the seats are a lot more important to me than being able to carve up the roads...however it sounds like through most of your review you talk about how the EM-5 is a 5s sports car, but "come on, 5s is really barely faster than my 8s sedan, so the sports car barely manages to eek out an advantage there".
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Many things dealing with Olympus and their OM and Pen cameras, plus my general photography and musings http://omexperience.wordpress.com/
 
I've found your assessment fair and completed, and your conclusions reflect your priorities that I respect.

As for me, person who does not use both OIS and IBIS, the whole conversation comes to IQ vs. handling and convenience.
And I did not expect that OMD has better EVF

After all, 2 months ago when my G1 has died on me, I've replaced her with GH2 and have no regrets or second thoughts, even so EVF really matters for me.
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I’m surprised how much Wikipedia contributes to the forum.

 
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, especially in the face of the senseless "bias" claims.

I've owned and shot both extensively as well. In my case the E-M5 stayed and the GH2 went but it was a close call. IBIS on primes as well as the far more configurable E-M5 interface were significant reasons.

The combination of being able to set up a sensible configuration and the far more responsive RAW buffer on the E-M5 makes it far more useful for fast shooting, which I am doing these days. The GH2 buffer is always jamming and takes forever to clear even with the fastest cards on the market. Heck, I even noticed the poor buffer when doing landscapes. When doing deep AEB I was always waiting for the camera when doing pano stitches at the same time. In comparison the E-M5 just sings and I've never waited for the buffer. Even when banging away with the 9fps shutter.

You are spot on about the AEB - the stupidest implementation of anything on the camera. Extremely frustrating and unusually clueless for Olympus. Everything else makes sense or at least can be configured as such. With AEB you are up a creek. Biggest weakness of the camera for me.

I think you are being unfair about the weather sealing. There are plenty of videos of the E-M5 shooting in a shower or with water literally pouring over it. By all accounts it is effective weather sealing and comparing. Your comparing it to a pro body and deciding it isn't useful because it isn't rated the same is not a supportable or well reasoned opinion I think. The GH2 is definitely delicate when it comes to water and the E-M5 wins that contest resoundingly.

In the end if I was still exclusively shooting tripod mounted landscapes I think I'd pick or at least stick with the GH2. But for low light handheld portraiture which I am now doing the IBIS and the vastly better RAW buffer makes the E-M5 noticeably more functional.
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Ken W
See profile for equipment list
 
I've owned and shot both extensively as well. In my case the E-M5 stayed and the GH2 went but it was a close call.
Please write your own review, because I cant take anyone seriously if they crow too loudly for one or the other model, because 'close call' is how I would call it as well. I dont want to read reviews where every + is a ++ for one camera and every + for the other sounds like it was either doubted for real value or made with as much suffering as a tooth extraction.
 
Well Bob, I don't share your opinions in most areas, but as you said, you don't want to discuss this. Fonine for me as everything about the numerous advantages of the E-M5 has been said a thousand times.
But in your assemssments below you made two mistakes:
Ergonomics: Although nothing else is as dumbfoundingly bad as AEB, there are a number of other UI problems that I find annoying at best, and interfere with my use of the camera at worst. Starting with maybe the least significant, the touch screen interface is half-a$$ed. The SCP is a great feature (mostly), but why do I have to touch an option on the screen and then press the OK button. If I’ve tapped the ISO button, why can’t the camera understand it’s because I want to change the ISO and go directly to the setting menu for that? Having to repeatedly touch the screen and then push a button, is pretty silly. Panasonic implements the touch screen much more elegantly.
You don't have to press the okay button after having selected an option on the SCP. Just turn the front control wheel to change the respective settings. It couldn't be easier. Don't blame a tool if you didn't read the manual.
That caught my attention too ! Seems incredible.
Other foibles:

... Oh, and setting ISO via the SCP is a pain, with all the ISOs arranged in a row. If you want to switch from auto to ISO 3200 you need to push buttons repeatedly. On the GH2, the numbers are arranged in a grid, and you can just touch the value you want. Even if you don’t use the touch screen, you can still choose most ISOs with fewer button pushes.
As I said above. Read the f*cking manual. What could be easier than turning a wheel?
Further he can customize the four ways controller and get it to work almost like a Panasonic camera :

1) First disable the direct mode on the four ways controller.

2) Secondly customize the arrows to what you want : I set up my E-P3 to work almost like my G3 and unless the four ways controller of the GH2 is very different from the G3, you can do the same :
  • AF area : on the left arrow (not customizable, but same as my G3)
  • Drive mode on the down arrow (customizable)
  • WB on the right arrow (or if you prefer ISO, customizable)
  • Exp compensation on the up arrow (not customizable to ISO)
And as said by Don Parrot : you hit any of those keys or the touch screen and work with any of the wheel : there is nothing faster to adjust the controls.

Apparently, you need to spend a little more time with the E-M5 and to get accustomed to the wheels better : they have much more functions than on the GH2 (are much more capable), you will love them !

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rrr_hhh
 
Bob, an excellent and to my view unbiased, fair comparison of the two m4/3 flagship cameras. As I own both and used both extensively, I share your assessments almost 100%.

The strong points of the E-M5 are clearly the IQ, the EVF, performance, and IBIS. These advantages make me use the E-M5 almost only now, despite I still own the GH2. However, the GH2 is a much older design, so the EM5 SHOULD be better in these aspects. I think that the GH3 will keep the GH2 concept, hopefully improving body design quality so that it looks more stylish. Style is one of the most important selling points of the EM5, although this is also the major cause for its ergonomical shortcomings.

What I also really like is how Olympus has integrated an attachable grip to the camera. It does not feel like an afterthought add on. It fits to the body design perfectly and the separation between landscape and portrait parts is probably the most clever design aspect of the EM5. This is how external grips should be implemented. On the other hand, as I mention below, the naked body of the EM5 is too gripless for my taste.

My prediction is that the GH3 won't have enough advantages to let me turn back to a Panasonic body in the mid-term future, because it won't have IBIS.

You nailed the EM5's disadvantages pretty well: ergonomics and in my case build quality.

The EM5 is IMO not comfortably to use without the landscape part of the HDL6 grip. This adds 300 € to the EM5 package to get a setup comparable to the GH2.

The control layout of the GH2 is massively better due to the direct control switches, except for the haptics of the thumb wheel of the GH2, which isn't good. On the other hand, Olympus has clearly misplaced the left (rear) control wheel of the EM5, because it is awkward to reach for left eye shooters when using the EVF. Unfortunately Olympus was too determined to have the EM5 look like a legacy Olympus product. This retro look has already led to ergonomics issues at the PEN series (I.e. flimsy multi controllers) and now they dis the same mistake again.

The accessibility of AEB and MySets is an example of bad UI design indeed, it isn't understandable, why those things haven't been included in the SCP. There would have been enough space for it.

I also prefer the fully tiltable screen design of the GH2 as it allows you to also use the tilting when shooting in portrait orientation.

One concern, you did not mention probably because you haven't experienced it, are some aspects of the EM5's build quality: paint resistance and poor eye cup design. At my silver body and button paint is coming off at almost all edges after a relatively short time of usage. The body edges now show a white base paint. Within three months of using the camera two eyecups broke or were lost, because of a totally inappropriate design of the connector.

Despite the long list of issues, most of which easily avoidable, if Olympus engineers had more thought, I still give the edge to the EM5, mostly because the EM5 is more fun to use. This is thanks to the very noticeable faster operation of the EM5 (most notably in all aspects related to continuous shooting mode, incl. buffer size), the better EVF with its excellent possibilities to control exposure (highlight and shadow markers), IBIS, better IQ, and the ability to do handheld bracketing in one quick burst with 9fps (this is the weakness of the GH2's AEB implementation, which you forgot to mention). The more fluent operation of the EM5 (speed) cannot be overstated enough, although I expect the GH3 to catch up.

What the successors of both cameras definitely need to improve is the relatively poor battery life. It is sad to see that m4/3 did not make any progress in this aspect.

I hope that Olympus listens and reacts quickly with a firmware update to address the accessibility issues regarding AEB and MySets. If they do this, the edge is more clearly to the EM5.
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Thomas
 
If you have used both cameras thoroughly enough, you don't need side by side comparison in order to do a similar assessment. I own both cameras and shoot only with the EM5 since I bought it in April, and come to nearly the same conclusions as Bob, except the final verdict. I somehow prefer using the EM5 due to IBIS and more fluid operation. The latter will be accomplished with the GH3, the former unfortunately not. Should Panasonic add IBIS to their bodies, I will be likely back in the Panasonic camp again, as they understand much better to do body ergonomics suitable for photographers.
Unless you folks who've shouted Bias! here have actually owned and shot both E-M5 and GH2 fairly extensively - as has the OP...
Like me! btw, both are very good cameras and no one should say one is better than the other for EVERYONE (the OP didn't either).

..but, read the OP again and the bias really comes out. He talks about , "I haven’t really done a direct, side-by-side comparison" and how this is just his opinion. Fine, he prefers the GH2. As he said, it's not really a direct, side-by-side comparison.
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Thomas
 
I hope that Olympus listens and reacts quickly with a firmware update to address the accessibility issues regarding AEB and MySets. If they do this, the edge is more clearly to the EM5.
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Thomas
+1 - I just can't believe such a respected camera company would go to the trouble of adding 'Colour Space' control to the SCP - something which 99% of owners will set just ONCE in their ownership of the camera and yet leave AEB (and other useful settings) off the SCP.

Mysets are so difficult to master (and know which one you are using) that I have decided not to use them. Compare them to the 3 x 'C' modes directly accessible on the GH2 dial and you wonder what the OM-D designers were actually thinking, if they were thinking at all...

And don't get me going about the power switch.... :(

The more I think about it - the one saving grace the OM-D has over the GH2 is it's IBIS...
 

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