Santa Barbara (CA) Peace March

I am not sure if this forum was founded for the purpose of political debate, but one thing that photography does, be it great, average, or poor, it does stir debate. Unfortunately we have no debate here. So...billtoo, you need to post the pros as well. This from Thomas Jefferson's first inaugural address:

If there be any among us who would wish to dissolve this union or to change its republican form, let them stand undisturbed as monuments of the safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.

The photos are average. Your composition needs work. Keep going to the demonstartions we need as many people out there. You're photography will get better.

It's not wrong to say
"No Blood For Oil"
No American blood.
No Iraqi blood.

It's that simple.

Be sure and get the shot of the students burning the Bank of America building.

Zidar
Alaska
--
It's not about stuff.
http://www.pbase.com/zidar

Thomas Gardner said:

Ed Magowan said:

Thomas Gardner said:

Tom C said:

If theses protesters are not careful they
may wakeup without a city to protest in.

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And when they come to in heaven, they'll deny they're in heaven
because they claim there's no God and they'll also blame themselves
because they were Americans and somehow this fact alone brought on
this hate.

Where through the looking glass here people.

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Consider the beer bought and drank..... It was a Sam Adams dark, on
draft

Thanks!

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--

A big heavy Canon DSLR, a not as heavy Canon SLR, a couple of off-white lens and some red-stripe lenses and one with a gold stripe, some flashes and tripods and remotes and a closet full of things that are banned in Britain. A minivan and a Fender Stratocaster. A three bedroom ranch on an acre. Also, absolutely no Canon 1200mm f/5.6. Yet.

Let's see...all those in favor of invading Iraq are heading to the recruitment office tomorrow, right? (yeah...right)

After all, Iraq is responsible for what happened in New York on 9/11, right? What's that? He's not?

The cowardly terrorists who struck out and then ran for cover are still out there. They are the enemy. They are the enemy of all mankind. They and their quasi-religious brain-dead inbred supporters.

And to anybody who thinks that protesting is helping the other side, I'd just love to see you on the front lines. Every camera from CNN staring at you wet your pants when the bullets kick up the dust around you. The same stuff was going around in the sixties. I was in the Nam and in no way did the protesters make things more difficult. No. It was the morally inept politicians, from both sides of the aisle, whom I blame for so much pain and misery.

billtoo said:

I shot the peace march in Santa Barbara if anyone is interested.
http://www.pbase.com/billtoo/sbpeacerally



--
billtoo
D30
http://www.pbase.com/billtoo

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Send the politicians first and after they are all dead, let's see where we stand.

Al Pacheco said:

Let's see...all those in favor of invading Iraq are heading to the
recruitment office tomorrow, right? (yeah...right)

After all, Iraq is responsible for what happened in New York on
9/11, right? What's that? He's not?

The cowardly terrorists who struck out and then ran for cover are
still out there. They are the enemy. They are the enemy of all
mankind. They and their quasi-religious brain-dead inbred
supporters.

And to anybody who thinks that protesting is helping the other
side, I'd just love to see you on the front lines. Every camera
from CNN staring at you wet your pants when the bullets kick up the
dust around you. The same stuff was going around in the sixties. I
was in the Nam and in no way did the protesters make things more
difficult. No. It was the morally inept politicians, from both
sides of the aisle, whom I blame for so much pain and misery.

Click to expand...

Please, you have to remember it is Santa Barbara, I apologize for them.
Ruel

Ken Phillips said:

billtoo said:

billtoo

billtoo said:

I shot the peace march in Santa Barbara if anyone is interested.
http://www.pbase.com/billtoo/sbpeacerally



--
billtoo
D30
http://www.pbase.com/billtoo

Click to expand...

--
billtoo
D30
http://www.pbase.com/billtoo

Click to expand...

--
A big heavy Canon DSLR, a not as heavy Canon SLR, a couple of
off-white lens and some red-stripe lenses and one with a gold
stripe, some flashes and tripods and remotes and a closet full of
things that are banned in Britain. A minivan and a Fender
Stratocaster. A three bedroom ranch on an acre. Also, absolutely no
Canon 1200mm f/5.6. Yet.

Click to expand...

--
Ruel

Al Pacheco said:

Let's see...all those in favor of invading Iraq are heading to the
recruitment office tomorrow, right? (yeah...right)

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You're funny. Why? All those that are infavor of invading Iraq, signed up over six months ago.

Member said:

After all, Iraq is responsible for what happened in New York on
9/11, right? What's that? He's not?

Click to expand...

And that's your reason for not invading Iraq, you're not convienced. Gee sorry if you've been kept out of the loop.

Member said:

The cowardly terrorists who struck out and then ran for cover are
still out there. They are the enemy. They are the enemy of all
mankind. They and their quasi-religious brain-dead inbred
supporters.

Click to expand...

Not really. Why? Because of brave, non-complaining adult American military types and G.W's. efforts, quite of few of them are dead, scattered and on the defensive. It's been over a year and four months since they've struck the US. Do you really think that's because they're waiting for the perfect time and moment or is it more like we really, really messed their evil plans up and the best they've been able to do is kill innocents in a Bali disco?

Member said:

And to anybody who thinks that protesting is helping the other
side, I'd just love to see you on the front lines. Every camera
from CNN staring at you wet your pants when the bullets kick up the
dust around you.

Click to expand...

Oh yeah and you wet your pants?

Member said:

The same stuff was going around in the sixties. I
was in the Nam and in no way did the protesters make things more
difficult. No. It was the morally inept politicians, from both
sides of the aisle, whom I blame for so much pain and misery.

Click to expand...

And all of your buddies were peeing in their pants? Just want to make sure.

rick decker said:

Send the politicians first and after they are all dead, let's see
where we stand.

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Let's send in those that signed up voluntarily to go forth and be America's warriors. Let America's warriors show us what they want to show us. Let us be proud to be Americans and the heck with those that say, "Send the Politicians first....."

I know, why don't we leave Hussain alone. He'll be nice to his people and he'll be sure to make sure the money he gets will be spent on food and medicine. He'll stop killing people that oppose him. He'll start loving women and help them become educated and get jobs of their own. He'll start loving his neighbors and will stop being a threat to the region. He'll make sure that peace will reside in his dictatorship and peace will also reign through out the land and his name will be held on everybody's tongue for eternity for his benevolence.

NOT!!!!!!!!

You are so right!

Ken Phillips said:

Thomas,
I'm surprised that nobody commented on my Neville Chamberlain quote.

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2 reasons:

1 - knowledge of history is lacking
2 - people tend to be what Stalin called "useful idiots."

John

Ken Phillips said:

But I have another: All that is required for evil to triumph ... is
for good men to do nothing.
Obviously, I agree with you.
KP
--
A big heavy Canon DSLR, a not as heavy Canon SLR, a couple of
off-white lens and some red-stripe lenses and one with a gold
stripe, some flashes and tripods and remotes and a closet full of
things that are banned in Britain. A minivan and a Fender
Stratocaster. A three bedroom ranch on an acre. Also, absolutely no
Canon 1200mm f/5.6. Yet.

Click to expand...

Those of us in Nam were not having troubles. And the ones heading off this time from the US, UK, and elsewhere won't either. Because, thankfully, those who know better will stay at home.

Thomas Gardner said:

Al Pacheco said:

Let's see...all those in favor of invading Iraq are heading to the
recruitment office tomorrow, right? (yeah...right)

Click to expand...

You're funny. Why? All those that are infavor of invading Iraq,
signed up over six months ago.

Thomas Gardner said:

After all, Iraq is responsible for what happened in New York on
9/11, right? What's that? He's not?

Click to expand...

And that's your reason for not invading Iraq, you're not
convienced. Gee sorry if you've been kept out of the loop.

Thomas Gardner said:

The cowardly terrorists who struck out and then ran for cover are
still out there. They are the enemy. They are the enemy of all
mankind. They and their quasi-religious brain-dead inbred
supporters.

Click to expand...

Not really. Why? Because of brave, non-complaining adult American
military types and G.W's. efforts, quite of few of them are dead,
scattered and on the defensive. It's been over a year and four
months since they've struck the US. Do you really think that's
because they're waiting for the perfect time and moment or is it
more like we really, really messed their evil plans up and the best
they've been able to do is kill innocents in a Bali disco?

Thomas Gardner said:

And to anybody who thinks that protesting is helping the other
side, I'd just love to see you on the front lines. Every camera
from CNN staring at you wet your pants when the bullets kick up the
dust around you.

Click to expand...

Oh yeah and you wet your pants?

Thomas Gardner said:

The same stuff was going around in the sixties. I
was in the Nam and in no way did the protesters make things more
difficult. No. It was the morally inept politicians, from both
sides of the aisle, whom I blame for so much pain and misery.

Click to expand...

And all of your buddies were peeing in their pants? Just want to
make sure.

Click to expand...

Rune Moberg said:

To make a stand and provoke debate by reminding everybody that not
everyone buys into Bush' propaganda (including most of Europe btw
-- you might want to check up on what the current diplomatic
relationship between US and European countries like France and
Germany look like these days).

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Rune, Imagine for one minute the USA wasn't interested in dictators exporting WMD. Imagine for one minute the USA not prudently denying evil regimes thier way. Most of Europe would be petrified and trembling in their socialist boots. You call it propoganda for an American president to not be black mailed into appeasment. Are you out of your mind! France, you mean the France that wouldn't exist without our liberation. Germany, you mean the how soon we forget Germany that we put in the meat grinder the last time they crossed us.

.

Rune Moberg said:

Rune Moberg said:

And all I want is for someone to answer the question: what do you
want to have happen if it turns out Iraq DOES have nukes? Anything
at all?

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First: Find out how they got the nukes. The current concern is
chemical and bacteriological weapons though.

BTW: Donald Rumsfeld visited Saddam in 1983, at which point Iraq
had used chemical weapons against both soldiers from Iran and
Iraq's own population (the Kurds). It didn't seem to bother mr
Rumsfeld then when he had an excellent opportunity to speak
eye-to-eye with Saddam...

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You think because Sadam used chemical weapons on the KUrds we should say well they used them on the Kurds so I guess we should let them use them on us to be fair! Are you insane!!

Rune Moberg said:

Not to mention that many of US' current allies are just as 'bad' as
Saddam in some (or all) respects. Yet Bush only focus on an old
nemesis that beat his father. It almost looks personal. :-> (but it
is really about the oil, so in some respect that part of it can be
excused)

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Name them and give facts for the ottrocities they commit. Oh golly chee wiz you can't can you. You might have thought someone was buying your garbage but then somebody wanted you to proof one thing from your commie spewing agenda!!

Rune Moberg said:

Simply put: It looks bad if US ignores UN at a point in time where
Saddam complies with UN policies.

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What looks bad is 54 million people dying in WWII because of European leaders following the same policies your are advocating!

Rune Moberg said:

I believe everyone would like Saddam to disappear, but why not do
it by the book? Why the sudden rush? (election time starting to
close in?)

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If you want the world to be civilized you will pray, or are you allowed to in your commie world, that Bush wins re-election and can continue to undo the herendous damage your savior Bill Clinton did.

Rune Moberg said:

--
Rune, http://runesbike.com/

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--

D60, G2, Elan 7E QD, Rebel 2000, 24-70L, 70-200L IS, 100-400L IS, 50mm f1.4, 85mm f/1.8, 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro, 135mm f/2, 200mm f/2.8 USM, 1-550EX, 2-420EXs, MT-24EX, Bogen Tri-pod w/head, Bogen monopod and the usual filters, cable releases and accessories.

Al Pacheco said:

Those of us in Nam were not having troubles. And the ones heading
off this time from the US, UK, and elsewhere won't either. Because,
thankfully, those who know better will stay at home.

Click to expand...

And those that "know better" are directly responsible for the deaths of over three million human beings, whose philosophical beliefs were different then those of the ruling junta in Vietnam and Cambodia.

You do not have my support as Vietnam was a just and rightous war to help people that wanted only to be free from Commnunism and Dictators.

You see the difference, if you don't like it here in the US, you can leave and nobody will try to kill you. In 1975, if you tried to leave Vietnam, you were either killed by the ruling Commies of Ho Chi Mihn City.

Having a large Vietnamese population here in San Jose, I talk with those that left Vietnam and became known as the "Boat People", I talked to them about reeducation camps, torture, death of family and friends and then leaving in a boat at night to be robbed two or three times by pirates, standing by as the women were brutalized and raped, killed or both.

As a flaming heterosexual male, I've hugged and kissed the crying heads of American men that are still hurting inside from their experiences in the jungles of Vietnam. So I know first hand of the hurt.

I tell them they're hero's in my eyes. I thank them for what they did as I speak openly about what happened. I'm proud to be American. I'm not ashamed to call these Vietnam Veterans, true American heros.

Yes, I know of and hate tyrants and dictators.

War with Iraq is just and reasonable considering conditions that exist. The sooner the better. Why? Because there are people in Iraq being tortured this minute as we speak and they need our help.

You actually think the torturing should go on?

Marc Brackhahn said:

Rune Moberg said:

Not to mention that many of US' current allies are just as 'bad' as
Saddam in some (or all) respects. Yet Bush only focus on an old
nemesis that beat his father. It almost looks personal. :-> (but it
is really about the oil, so in some respect that part of it can be
excused)

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I missed this comment. Two points, we rolled through Iraq's military on the ground in a hundred hours and pulled the plug after the "Turkey Shoot" outside of Kuwait because it was such a one sided battle.

Second, GW was a stand up guy that stood by the UN resolution that said the coalition had authorization to remove Iraq from Kuwait. It did not say that "Coalition Forces" were to go to Bagdad and remove Suddam. If it had, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Get your info straight if you're going to slam a great honorable man.

What's Europe/Asia done to help the world over the last fifty years to find peace? All they've done is get in the way of peace?

They are much better than average. Overall they are very good. The fact that he chose to include so many necessitated being less choosy and does not detract from the overall quality. I doubt most would have done much better unless they had a lot of experience. I also think you would have done better by giving some specifics about what is wrong with the composition as opposed to just a blanket statement thtat isn't constructive standing alone. IMHO

If you or anyone would like to "brush up" on composition, I might suggest my tutorial, on my website (as a .pdf file) http://www.lightreflection.com Click on the bottom left button.
Rick Decker

EL_Hombre said:

The photos are average. Your composition needs work. Keep going to
the demonstartions we need as many people out there. You're
photography will get better.

It's not wrong to say
"No Blood For Oil"
No American blood.
No Iraqi blood.

It's that simple.

Click to expand...

--
http://www.lightreflection.com

rick decker said:

They are much
better than average. Overall they are very good. The fact that he
chose to include so many necessitated being less choosy and does
not detract from the overall quality. I doubt most would have done
much better unless they had a lot of experience. I also think you
would have done better by giving some specifics about what is wrong
with the composition as opposed to just a blanket statement thtat
isn't constructive standing alone. IMHO
If you or anyone would like to "brush up" on composition, I might
suggest my tutorial, on my website (as a .pdf file)
http://www.lightreflection.com Click on the bottom left button.
Rick Decker

Click to expand...

Thanks rick,
You're right, about clarifying.

I know they need work when they look like some of my shots.

The camera is pointed at the subject, but it doesn't seem that the area and shapes around the subject were taken into consideration or add anything to the pic.

If you look at most of the shots the subject is near center. There's nothing wrong with that but since most of them are that way, it leads me to say that the picture taker needs to think about the whole frame, and therefore the composition needs work.

someone like you who has all the answers. You're an expert on Vietnam because you talked to someone who has been there. You are an expert on terrorism because you have no original thought and simply parrot what you hear. Get real.

--
doc
Living in a 'Circle of Confusion'
Custom Photo Printing
http://www.fotoventure.com

Doc said:

someone like you who has all the answers. You're an expert on
Vietnam because you talked to someone who has been there.

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Yes the people that have lived in the reeducation camps and watch their family member be killed because of idealogical differences are experts.

Anybody care to call me a liar? I do have a lot of answers, just not ones you agree with or want to read.

You don't have to go someplace to recognize cruel, murderous behavior. Poor attempt at discrediting me. Why? Everything I posted, is verifiable by Vietnamese that "ESCAPED" the totalitarian rule of the Communist Vietnamese.

Doc45684 said:

You are
an expert on terrorism because you have no original thought and
simply parrot what you hear.

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Aaaaah, the attack on the ego. Very origina, not effective eitherl. Oh! And just because I agree with a majority, doesn't mean that I lack independent thought. I happen to recognize bad behavior and am willing to publically denounce cruel, hateful behavior and willing to support use of force to destroy it. So yes, I'm part of the majority on this message.

I deal with experts at UC Davis all the time when it comes to stinging insects and their control. They don't have a clue about how things really are in the field and they've actually gotten mad at me because my in field experiences disagree with their book learning and it makes them look bad. Oh well. Oh! I make a living killing stinging insects, they make a living talking about it.

Doc45684 said:

Get real.

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I'm supporting the use of force to remove a person that kills all those who challenges his authority and you suggest that I get real.

Now that's funny.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

insects. The chemicals have taken their toll.

doc
Living in a 'Circle of Confusion'
Custom Photo Printing
http://www.fotoventure.com

Doc said:

insects. The chemicals have taken their toll.

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Thank you for thoughtfully pointing that out.

But.

I've yet to read a post by an anti-war protester on this forum decrying Saddam's policies towards his people and how he spends the oil money. I've noticed that nobody has discredited my comments about the "Killing Fields" of Cambodia or the reeducation camps of Vietnam. I notice that nobody discredited my comments about the experiences of the "Boat People". Not bad for a non-expert.

My eyes well up in tears when I think of the torture those that were enslaved by the commies went through and yet they are the gentlest people to talk to. My stomach sickens at the thought that people are being tortured in the jails of Bagdad and the world doesn't want to lift a hand to help these people. I can't understand the hate the Muslims have for those of Jewish faith when they claim to be a religion of peace.

I can't believe that people want this behavior to continue when we have the means to stop it.

Keep your peace, I want nothing to do with it.

Siiiiiigh!!!!!

Oh! And again, thank you for worrying about my chemical intake, I'll be more careful in future applications