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"overcooked" - its in the eye of the beholder .... no it is not so we can see when pp presets used are beyond the image dynamic range
 
Ray Sachs said:
lapsa said:
Here it seems to be unacceptable because you can't see what the camera is capable of?.... nope nothing to do with the camera it is just that your stuff is overcooked.
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Ray, I may owe you an apology because my original comments probably started this minor controversy.

Didn't mean for things to go in this direction.

I think the shots you posted are excellent and should give anyone considering the RX100 a good idea of what can be accomplished with the camera.

I'm not really a big fan of modern day black & white pictures because I think most of them are poorly done, but your street shots look great.
 
lapsa said:
"overcooked" - its in the eye of the beholder .... no it is not so we can see when pp presets used are beyond the image dynamic range
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OK. There are all sorts of ways to process a shot for a desired effect. Some go beyond the DR, some completely flatten it out, some go for so much contrast that shadows and highlights are blown all over the image. The only question that matters to me when I view (or process) an image is not whether it's technically correct, but "does it work for me as a photograph"? These work for me, they don't work for you - that's all fine.

And they're not from a preset, BTW - its just the direction many of my B&W shots tend to go.

-Ray
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/collections/72157626204295198/
 
Ray Sachs said:
I hope you enjoy it! I tell you, this sensor in a GRD type body with a 28mm fixed lens and a GRD interface might be all I'd ever need!
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I would certainly jump on one, especially if it had a .35 lens.

Rube
 
Thanks, one more question.

Many of your shots seem to be taken from the waist. If so how were you able to see the screen?

I have been thinking to use a detachable 45 degree mirror to see the screen from above - of course the image would be inverted (a firmware option to invert the image would be great but I don't think any camera has that)... A metallic mirror would be ideally light but metallic reflection is not the best I think.
Ray Sachs said:
guyv said:
Thanks for the good pictures and good information on how you shoot with the RX100.
Nice borders, what is the plug-in?
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Color Efex Pro - I didn't do any of the processing in that but I did add the borders there. Silver and Color Efex share the same borders and interface for them.

-Ray
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/collections/72157626204295198/
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Nell27 said:
Ray, I may owe you an apology because my original comments probably started this minor controversy.

Didn't mean for things to go in this direction.

I think the shots you posted are excellent and should give anyone considering the RX100 a good idea of what can be accomplished with the camera.

I'm not really a big fan of modern day black & white pictures because I think most of them are poorly done, but your street shots look great.
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No need to apologize - it started a discussion and brought some ideas out in the open and that's never a bad thing!

-Ray
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/collections/72157626204295198/
 
guyv said:
Thanks, one more question.

Many of your shots seem to be taken from the waist. If so how were you able to see the screen?
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I'm not! But I'm comfortable enough shooting with a 28mm EFL lens (or wider - I use a 24 with my OMD) that I don't really need to see the screen to frame a shot. I'm not looking at the camera - I'm looking at the scene and often looking away shortly before I actually trip the shutter, so as not to make the subjects nervous or even aware...
guyv said:
I have been thinking to use a detachable 45 degree mirror to see the screen from above - of course the image would be inverted (a firmware option to invert the image would be great but I don't think any camera has that)... A metallic mirror would be ideally light but metallic reflection is not the best I think.
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I have had a few cameras now with a flip up rear screen - I had a Nex and an EPL3 and now have an OMD. For some shots, I really use that screen to frame from the waist. But for most shots I find I don't even look down at it when I have it. I love it on the OMD because its also a touch-screen and when its in manual focus mode, I can trigger the shutter by touching any part of the screen, so I can shoot all day without ever letting my finger near the shutter button. But I'm still usually not looking at the screen except for the occasional shot that more about the composition than the moment. Most of my shooting is more about the moment captured than the composition and I rarely look at the screen for those.

I know this sounds sneaky and underhanded to a lot of people, but my intent is to capture the moment that the subject(s) are having, not their interaction with me. The less aware they are that I'm shooting them, the better the odds of that happening. Sometimes they see what I'm doing anyway and are looking directly at the camera. Most of those I trash, but some of them I end up liking even though they represent a total failure of meeting my goal. But most of my better shots are strictly from the perspective of an observer - not a participant in the shot. Which is what I'm going for...

The idea of using a mirror sounds pretty confusing to me, although I've seen such things for sale. I used to shoot with an old Twin Lens Reflex as a kid, where you looked down into the top of the camera and frame with the cut glass viewfinder, which was at least backwards - I don't recall it being inverted, but it might have been. It was confusing in any case, but you got used to it. I think today's cameras with the flip up screens are much better for that type of shooting. I don't like the fully articulated screens, but those work too - its just that you have to extend it out to the left of the camera to look down into it - I prefer it right behind the body. But to me the beauty of an RX100 or a GRD3 is the small profile and the way you can shoot from roughly any angle easily - adding more parts to it just doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

-Ray
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/collections/72157626204295198/
 
Hey Ray,

You are a pretty good camera promoter whether or not the photos are raw or overcooked!

Now I have to get the Sony RX100 as well. In just 6 months I'm getting yet another camera...wouldn't have believed it!

Anyway, superb photos with this camera and I believe you must soon have the best collection of Americans and Americana ever!

-gerald

http://www.500px.com/geraldgay/sets
 
geraldPP said:
You are a pretty good camera promoter whether or not the photos are raw or overcooked!
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Well, definitely not raw, yet. Overcooked may be in the eye of the beholder unless you're lapsa, in which case its only in his eyes. ;)
geraldPP said:
Now I have to get the Sony RX100 as well. In just 6 months I'm getting yet another camera...wouldn't have believed it!
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Hey, why not. Cameras are a lot of fun and getting pretty damn good pretty damn fast. If you can do it without breaking the bank (I can as long as I stay away from Leicas and pro-level DSLR gear), go for it and enjoy it!
geraldPP said:
Anyway, superb photos with this camera and I believe you must soon have the best collection of Americans and Americana ever!
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Well, thanks, but no, there are much better and vaster collections of Americans and Americana out there. But I do well enough to entertain myself and if a few other people like 'em too, so much the better.

I look forward to seeing what you turn out with this little gem...

-Ray
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/collections/72157626204295198/
 
Simple ray ask just about any magazine editor and you will get the over processed reply and magazine stuff is post processed quite heavily for initial viewer impact
 
Nice childish remark there Ray I am sure you can do better than that
 
Ray Sachs said:
Nope, I'm out. We obviously have different underlying philosophies about this and it was stupid of me to argue with you this long. Lesson learned.

-Ray
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/collections/72157626204295198/
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Ray, first of all congratulations on your photos. Despite the "over cooking" debate, you have managed to capture some great moments, and that is all photography is all about. Artistic and creative vision, not so much about cameras, which are merely tools to get the job done.

Childish people, like user "lapsa", are not able to differentiate between their tunnel vision, and the broader vision. They are not able to discern beyond the obvious, and appreciate the nuances. For people like that, thankfully there is the "ignore" button, which I will use after posting this. We simply do not have much time on this Earth to waste with such people.

I have also got a RX100 recently, it s a little mean camera, and good at what it does.

--
http://www.paulobizarro.com
 
Ray Sachs said:
guyv said:
Thanks, one more question.

Many of your shots seem to be taken from the waist. If so how were you able to see the screen?
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I'm not! But I'm comfortable enough shooting with a 28mm EFL lens (or wider - I use a 24 with my OMD) that I don't really need to see the screen to frame a shot. I'm not looking at the camera - I'm looking at the scene and often looking away shortly before I actually trip the shutter, so as not to make the subjects nervous or even aware...
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I am glad I asked, thanks for the great reply.
Ray Sachs said:
...

I don't like the fully articulated screens, but those work too - its just that you have to extend it out to the left of the camera to look down into it - I prefer it right behind the body. But to me the beauty of an RX100 or a GRD3 is the small profile and the way you can shoot from roughly any angle easily - adding more parts to it just doesn't sound like a good idea to me.
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Yes, I also prefers the screen orientable behind the body.

I will adopt your waist type of shooting for candid shots, it's a great way of doing it.

The one time where I really miss the orientable screen is for close shots of ground-level flowers with mountains in the background, I usually need to lie down fully on the ground which is not desirable if the ground is wet...
 
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