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millsart said:
I agree with your opinions as well, however, I would think that the average snapshot shooter wouldn't really be in the market for a $650 camera.

For $150 these days you can can some awesome cameras like the Panny zs15 that take some really nice photos and have a huge zoom range, easy to use etc. Or everyone has an iPhone camera etc.
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I'm not sure. Look at all of the people who buy a low to mid-level DSLR with a kit lens and never buy another lens. TONS of people that I wouldn't call enthusiasts buy these cameras and probably have iPhoto or something where they might do the occasional crop or red-eye removal, but basically just stick with OOC jpegs. So I can imagine there's a market for this camera among people who want pretty good IQ in a smaller camera but are not likely to do any real post processing.

So I take the point. But that's not what I bought it for and so I'm gonna use the same workflow I use with my other gear. And when I have raw support, I'll most likely be shooting raw most of the time. Although I'm not sure about that - I stuck with jpegs with my Fujis because their jpegs are so good I could almost never top them with raw. And some of the jpeg only tricks the RX100 does, like the auto HDR, I might continue to use for some of my shooting.

-Ray
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/collections/72157626204295198/
 
millsart said:
Nice shots Ray

Other than the obvious lack of OVF/EVF and the tilt LCD (a feature I know you like) what were the real issues you found with the RX100 ?

I found for street setting the center button to af/mf the camera works brilliantly. I'll quickly zone focus at what I think the subject distance I want it with the AF (which usually works great on its own) and then just hit the center button to switch to MF mode and then its near instant shutter response. Since its just a 1" sensor the DoF is pretty deep as well so its great for zone street work. Ultra small and discreet camera used that way
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To me the to annoyances are the lack of a direct way to set up for zone focus and the lack of direct access to exposure comp when in manual focus mode. I'm using the same workaround as you for zone focus - focus on something the approximate distance away, switch to manual focus with the center button toggle and shoot away. In good light this isn't a problem because I'm shooting at f8 and focussing at 4 feet, which is easy enough to find. Just stick the camera by my breast-bone and focus on my toes. But as the light goes down, I have three other settings at 6, 7, and 8 feet and these are both tougher to approximate and getting it right is more critical because my "zone" is narrower to begin with. It works, I can deal with it, but I really love cameras that have a focus distance scale built in, which the X10, LX5, GRD3, X100, and X-Pro all have. M43 bodies don't but the Olympus 12mm lens has a great distance scale on the barrel of the lens, which simulates actual manual focussing. And on my other cameras I've always had direct access to the exposure comp, which I use a LOT street shooting as I move between sun and shade and my angle relative to the sun changes a lot. Turn a dial or push a rocker and you change it. In aperture priority mode and auto-focus I can assign exposure comp to the lens ring on the Sony and its right there for me too, but in manual focus mode, you can't do that, so you have to push a button to arm it. Not a huge deal, but something I have to remember to do. Just one more small thing to think about rather than just reacting....

Again, these are not make or break issues, but things that add up over time and affect my enjoyment of using a camera. Its main job is to get out of the way and the RX100 just doesn't do that as well as many. But its other strengths make up for it well enough.

-Ray
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/collections/72157626204295198/
 
Nice shots.
--
Alan.
 
Excellent IQ.
Ray Sachs said:
OK, despite plenty of doubts, I jumped in and got an RX100. As I suspected, its great for stuff I don't do a lot and a bit of a chore for stuff I do a lot of, but the IQ is good enough to be worth a couple of workarounds. First, a couple of snapshots from a bike ride I did yesterday - we've seen plenty of these and know how well the camera does at these:







And some street shots from a street fair last night. I do a lot of this kind of shooting, and I don't find the setup of the RX100 anywhere close to ideal for it, but I was able to find workarounds and didn't ultimately have any trouble with it. I can't say its a joy to shoot with (and I have said that about other cameras), but the results are pretty compelling. These are all shot at ISO 3200 and that's just not fair in a camera of this size. I'm likely to hold on to this camera for a year or two. I think Sony got the jump on everyone and this next set of releases probably won't compare, but let this sensor get out there for the next round of designs, and someone is gonna put it in a slightly larger body with a faster/wider lens and a better set of external controls and I might just have to re-think my whole approach to cameras... For now, this is a pretty awesome little advance...



















-Ray
-------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/collections/72157626204295198/
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--nice shots, right. But yeah, too fancy PP in the B&W shots...which then is not quite realistic as to what the cam does. But what is done later in computer.
 
jonrobertp said:
--nice shots, right. But yeah, too fancy PP in the B&W shots...which then is not quite realistic as to what the cam does. But what is done later in computer.
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Interesting forum. Most places I post my work people will sometimes like my PP work and sometimes not, but it's pretty much accepted as an integral part of the photography, good or bad. Here it seems to be unacceptable because you can't see what the camera is capable of? Very strange attitude - PP has been a part of photography since the earliest days. Even jpegs are post processing - its just that the decisions are made by the manufacturers engineers instead of the photographer.

If you want to look at test chart photos, there are plenty of them around. I like to look at what other photographers actually DO with a camera to get an impression. I thought this might be a useful example of that for the RX100. Sorry if it's "not quite realistic as to what the cam does". The cam doesn't DO anything - its a tool photographers use to DO things. I'm just giving you one example of that - one more data point to consider. Take it or leave it.

-Ray
-------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/collections/72157626204295198/
 
Thanks for the good pictures and good information on how you shoot with the RX100.
Nice borders, what is the plug-in?
Ray Sachs said:
Yeah, the B&W are done with Silver Efex Pro 2, as is the color shot of the little boy spinning the plate on his finger. But the other color shots are all just some really basic Lightroom adjustments (except for the borders, which are done with a plug-in).
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Ray Sachs said:
jonrobertp said:
--nice shots, right. But yeah, too fancy PP in the B&W shots...which then is not quite realistic as to what the cam does. But what is done later in computer.
Click to expand...
Interesting forum. Most places I post my work people will sometimes like my PP work and sometimes not, but it's pretty much accepted as an integral part of the photography, good or bad. Here it seems to be unacceptable because you can't see what the camera is capable of? Very strange attitude - PP has been a part of photography since the earliest days. Even jpegs are post processing - its just that the decisions are made by the manufacturers engineers instead of the photographer.

If you want to look at test chart photos, there are plenty of them around. I like to look at what other photographers actually DO with a camera to get an impression. I thought this might be a useful example of that for the RX100. Sorry if it's "not quite realistic as to what the cam does". The cam doesn't DO anything - its a tool photographers use to DO things. I'm just giving you one example of that - one more data point to consider. Take it or leave it.

-Ray
-------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/collections/72157626204295198/
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I suspect the comments are focused on whether post processing is an integral part of the art -- dodging and burning were used for many decades and no one considered it in appropriate -- but if your comments are on the camera's image quality, it's hard to disentangle that from the post processing.

But I actually think your comments were about the usability and ergonomics of the camera, and that those were challenging. I'd be curious to hear more about that.
 
Here it seems to be unacceptable because you can't see what the camera is capable of?.... nope nothing to do with the camera it is just that your stuff is overcooked.
 
Impressive shots !

I've been looking at small cameras with street photography in mind and the RX100 got my attention - I would actually prefer a camera with a viewfinder (like the Nikon V1) for that.

However, you mentioned some things that bother you with street shots - care to elaborate ?
--
Jacques

Apple & Eve website and blog : apple-and-eve.com
 
lapsa said:
Here it seems to be unacceptable because you can't see what the camera is capable of?.... nope nothing to do with the camera it is just that your stuff is overcooked.
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I wasn't responding to you - I saw that you were merely saying you didn't like my post work and that's fine. I don't have a problem with anyone expressing their opinion of my stuff, good or bad. It's not like there's an objective standard for what constitutes "overcooked" - its in the eye of the beholder and I get that you behold it it that way. you could express it more as an opinion than as a fact, but I understand that's all it is, however you say it. And I appreciate the input, although I obviously like that sort of PP or I wouldn't do it that way.

But a few of the criticisms have been because it's not what the "camera is capable of", and that argument I just reject as silly. It came out of the camera, so the camera was capable of it. Not by itself, but the camera isn't capable of anything by itself, obviously.

-Ray
-------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/collections/72157626204295198/
 
JacquesC said:
Impressive shots !

I've been looking at small cameras with street photography in mind and the RX100 got my attention - I would actually prefer a camera with a viewfinder (like the Nikon V1) for that.

However, you mentioned some things that bother you with street shots - care to elaborate ?
Click to expand...
Just for my own specific shooting preferences:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=42180810

-Ray
-------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/collections/72157626204295198/
 
Thanks for the feedback - enjoy your camera !
--
Jacques

Apple & Eve website and blog : apple-and-eve.com
 
Ray, glad you are getting what you need out of the RX100. And thanks for posting your thoughts and photos to show what you mean.

For what I do in Japan, I don't need it, but here on Van Isle (where I spend up to 10 weeks at a time) all my old gear got stolen, and I find I need something small for everywhere use. So mine is arriving on Aug 15, and I imagine I will like it a lot.

Go Bears (the Cubs are of course already out of it).
--
Rube
http://www.flickr.com/photos/71881102@N00/
 
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