What's the best light but sturdy tripod for MFT?

ELLIOT P STERN said:

Gitzo is way over priced by today's standards. China has really moved forward with some great heads and tripods.

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I am inclined to think that you are right about that.

ELLIOT P STERN said:

Induro heads are exceptional as are their legs but for travel the Benro Tranfunctional Tripod Benro Transfunctional Travel Angel C2691TB1 with head (arca swiss) comes up high enough for a 5'8 to 6 ft person with camera mounted and has one leg that can screw off and become a monopod. Probably the best bang for the buck. There is also Induro CT214 and CT314.

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Thanks for the tip about Induro. Regrettably, they are a bit pricey here in Sweden and appear not to be as easily available through other European sources (important since I'd otherwise have to pay VAT and duties on import) as Benro and Sirui. Based on my impressions right now, the main contenders are Benro and Sirui.

ELLIOT P STERN said:

ELLIOT P STERN said:

That is the EXACT same set up I have. Used the quick release head for a while, but went to the screw head as it is smaller and lighter and doesn't leave an annoying plate on the camera.

We all must have read the same reviews on these things

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--
El

Gear. 2 Omd, all the lenses, Ep3, Ep2, Ep1 infrared, Fuji X100, Fuji x pro 1, all the Fuji lenses, Voigtlander 15,21,28,50,75,90,180. Nikon 55 macro, 200 macro and Zeiss 100mm macro, Induro Tripods and heads, etc. Ricoh GXR and modules including Leica M

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mfj197 said:

Anders W said:

ginsbu said:

Anders W said:

One further question: I see that Sirui has several other somewhat similar models, for example the T-1005X which seems quite similar to the T-1205X in all but one regard: made of alu-mag alloy and thus slightly heavier (1000 g rather than 800). At the same time, it is also significantly cheaper: less than half the price. What made you settle for the T-1205X over the T-1005X? Just the lower weight or other considerations as well?

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Carbon has much better vibration damping properties than metal: try "plucking" the legs of each and you'll see. For long exposures, long lenses, windy conditions, etc., this is advantageous. IMO, this is a bigger selling point for carbon than weight.

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Thanks. I kind of thought there must be more to it than just the weight advantage. And the 100-300 is indeed long at the long end (600 mm EFL). It is very instructive to look at just how vibration-sensitive it is in magnified live view.

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Exactly as ginsbu wrote! I haven't tried the aluminium versions of these because there aren't any shops stocking them close by. I would imagine the T-1005X is a very good tripod for the price - it's certainly a lot cheaper. For me though the price of the carbon fibre T-1205X was worth it as a good tripod will last a long time (as you know) and the benefits in vibration reduction and weight will be felt throughout its lifetime.

Are you using the camera tripod mount for the 100-300 or some sort of lens mount? It looks quite a lens - might have to try one at some point!

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Yes I am using the camera tripod mount. As you can see here, there is a special tripod collar for the 100-300 available from Rösch Feinmechanik in Germany:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1041&message=41448928

Seems to be very well made, fairly light (70 g), and reasonably priced, but I'd still rather do without if I can.

While the 100-300 is big and heavy for MFT (the biggest and heaviest native lens currently available with the CV 17.5/0.95 as the only partial exception), it is still smaller and lighter than comparable lenses for DSLRs like the Nikon 70-300 VR, the Canon 70-300 IS USM, and the Tamron 70-300 VC USD. The E-M5 with 100-300 combo remains below the one kilo borderline so shouldn't be a problem from that point of view.

On the other hand, the combo is of course not well balanced on the tripod when using the camera tripod mount and the FL is very long indeed (600 mm EFL). It is very instructive to look at magnified live view with this combo mounted on a tripod. Even if everything seems quite stable, it sufficies that you put a finger very gently on one of the legs to see the image jitter noticeably. So obviously, any advantage when it comes to stability and vibration dampening is more than welcome.

I am more and more inclined to go with one of the Siruis (with the Benro C-0681 as the main contender). And I am also inclined to think that carbon fiber is worth the extra money for the reasons you mention. But I am still a bit uncertain about exactly what model to choose when it comes to the tripod itself as well as the head. The ones I am primarily choosing between are the N-1204, N-1205, T-1204X, and T1205X on the tripod side and the G-10 and the G-20 on the head side. I would appreciate any further thoughts in that regard that might help me make the best choice given my needs/preferences.

I have a Manfrotto 190 in metal and a friend has a carbon fibre one. Casual indoor comparisons do not seem to show a lot of difference in terms of vibration resistance.

I have a couple of Feisol traveler tripods. I think the quality is excellent and the U.S. vendor is a good person to work with.

The couple of inches length saved with the traveler tripod can come in real handy at times. If you don't need it, though, get a larger one.

Anders W said:

The ones I am primarily choosing between are the N-1204, N-1205, T-1204X, and T1205X on the tripod side and the G-10 and the G-20 on the head side. I would appreciate any further thoughts in that regard that might help me make the best choice given my needs/preferences.

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According to the Traumflieger review the G-20 absorbs a bit better than the G-10, 350 vs. 290 lines in a test with intentional mirror slap (whatever kind of lines they mean there). But the K-20 and K-10 absorb even better and weight about the same (plus tension control) for not that much more money. So if its more about weight than money then the K heads might be the better choice. If it's about weight then the G-10 or maybe even the C-10 are the lightest in Sirui's line. The small Feisol is even lighter, though.

There is a table with all heads at the last page of the review:

http://www.traumflieger.de/desktop/ballhead/ballheads4.php

tt321 said:

I have a Manfrotto 190 in metal and a friend has a carbon fibre one. Casual indoor comparisons do not seem to show a lot of difference in terms of vibration resistance.

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What kind of tests did you do and how big, heavy, and long was the lens you used?

When looking for further information about the topic, I came across this.

http://www.carbonfibertripodreviews.com/Carbon-Fiber-VS-Aluminium-Tripods

Perhaps not the optimal source (others are welcome to suggest further readings) but at least a beginning.

I'm using a Sirui N-2204 with the K20X ballhead. It's kind of overkill for mft, but I bought it for the Nikon D7000 I no longer own. Frankly, I would rather be overgunned than undergunned when it comes to tripods, and this is a SUPER stable setup for my Panasonic DMC-GX1.

I have owned 2 Manfrotto, 3 Gitzos, 3 Benros, (all CF), and now I am using the Sirui very happily. At each stage along the way I have had better quality (yep, I rate the Benro better than Gitzo and the Sirui better than Benro).

Timur Born said:

Anders W said:

The ones I am primarily choosing between are the N-1204, N-1205, T-1204X, and T1205X on the tripod side and the G-10 and the G-20 on the head side. I would appreciate any further thoughts in that regard that might help me make the best choice given my needs/preferences.

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According to the Traumflieger review the G-20 absorbs a bit better than the G-10, 350 vs. 290 lines in a test with intentional mirror slap (whatever kind of lines they mean there). But the K-20 and K-10 absorb even better and weight about the same (plus tension control) for not that much more money. So if its more about weight than money then the K heads might be the better choice. If it's about weight then the G-10 or maybe even the C-10 are the lightest in Sirui's line. The small Feisol is even lighter, though.

There is a table with all heads at the last page of the review:

http://www.traumflieger.de/desktop/ballhead/ballheads4.php

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Thanks Timur! Yes I saw that the G-20 absorbs a bit better than the G-10 and that is the main reason why I am considering it as an alternative to the G-10 in spite of the slightly higher weight. However, I hadn't quite realized that the K-10 and K-20 weren't really heavier than their G counterparts. Pricewise, the K heads aren't so much more expensive that I'd rule them out on that ground alone.

tt321 said:

I have a Manfrotto 190 in metal and a friend has a carbon fibre one. Casual indoor comparisons do not seem to show a lot of difference in terms of vibration resistance.

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Check out the vibration section of this review:

michaelnel said:

I'm using a Sirui N-2204 with the K20X ballhead. It's kind of overkill for mft, but I bought it for the Nikon D7000 I no longer own. Frankly, I would rather be overgunned than undergunned when it comes to tripods, and this is a SUPER stable setup for my Panasonic DMC-GX1.

I have owned 2 Manfrotto, 3 Gitzos, 3 Benros, (all CF), and now I am using the Sirui very happily. At each stage along the way I have had better quality (yep, I rate the Benro better than Gitzo and the Sirui better than Benro).

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Thanks Michael. That sounds reassuring to someone starting to think that Sirui might be the best bet.

In a prior post, Timur Born mentioned that some user reviews on Amazon.de indicated that it was a bit difficult to do very small/precise adjustments with the K20X. What are your own impressions in this regard? Is this a head that you can wholeheartedly recommend?

ginsbu said:

tt321 said:

I have a Manfrotto 190 in metal and a friend has a carbon fibre one. Casual indoor comparisons do not seem to show a lot of difference in terms of vibration resistance.

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Check out the vibration section of this review:

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Thanks ginsbu! Interesting information!

A friend just linked me to this this morning:
http://www.adorama.com/TRTPZS.html#reviews

Definitely light weight and compact but probably isn't sturdy or versatile enough for some people's uses.

Anders W said:

michaelnel said:

I'm using a Sirui N-2204 with the K20X ballhead. It's kind of overkill for mft, but I bought it for the Nikon D7000 I no longer own. Frankly, I would rather be overgunned than undergunned when it comes to tripods, and this is a SUPER stable setup for my Panasonic DMC-GX1.

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Anders W said:

In a prior post, Timur Born mentioned that some user reviews on Amazon.de indicated that it was a bit difficult to do very small/precise adjustments with the K20X. What are your own impressions in this regard? Is this a head that you can wholeheartedly recommend?

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Yes, keep the information coming, as I am on the market for a Sirui N2004 + K20X myself.

Some people on Amazon confirmed that the ball is a bit sticky. Or rather you have to overcome a certain resistance, which is problematic for small adjustments. Others answered that it's all fine, some of which use the K-10, though.

The price difference between the carbon vs. aluminum tripod is very steep (more than double) and at that point I am not sure if 300g + better absorption are worth the extra price for putting a M43 on top of the already absorbing head.

Anders W said:

(...)

Thanks but it looks like this model is no longer available (according to what B&H themselves say). Also, it has lever-actuated leg locks, probably made of plastic, and I'd rather stay away from those based on the many reports I have seen about how easily they break.

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I'll once against swim against the stream...

I like levers. My Velbon Sherpa legs has levers and it's one of the reasons to buy them. They are faster to work with compared to twisting and twisting forever, especially when you have legs with many sections). Now that i have used these legs for several years I suddenly start to read about levers breaking due to faulty handling. OK, obviously it can happen (but I haven't seen reports concerning Velbon legs yet) so until then I keep using them the same way as I always have done; no special precautions.

My guess is that anyone taking normal care can be happy (happier) with levers. Or, I'll be proven wrong. My weak wrists prefer them anyway.

Jonas

Jonas B said:

Anders W said:

(...)

Thanks but it looks like this model is no longer available (according to what B&H themselves say). Also, it has lever-actuated leg locks, probably made of plastic, and I'd rather stay away from those based on the many reports I have seen about how easily they break.

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I'll once against swim against the stream...

I like levers. My Velbon Sherpa legs has levers and it's one of the reasons to buy them. They are faster to work with compared to twisting and twisting forever, especially when you have legs with many sections). Now that i have used these legs for several years I suddenly start to read about levers breaking due to faulty handling. OK, obviously it can happen (but I haven't seen reports concerning Velbon legs yet) so until then I keep using them the same way as I always have done; no special precautions.

My guess is that anyone taking normal care can be happy (happier) with levers. Or, I'll be proven wrong. My weak wrists prefer them anyway.

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You're welcome Jonas. Within limits, it's just useful with people swimming against the stream. That helps bring out the arguments on both sides for proper examination, which in turn helps us get closer to the real truth.

As indicated above, I never had any trouble with the metal levers on my vintage Velbon. One of the locks somehow disassembled itself once but it was pretty easy to put it back together again and the mishap never repeated itself.

On the other hand, it seems that the levers are often made of plastic these days, and I have seen quite a few reports suggesting that they break easily, and not just due to mishaps or faulty handling. It is also easy to imagine that this might happen as a matter of pure exhaustion after a while. Lots of examples from my practical experience with plastic parts in machines and tools of all kinds come to mind here.

I'd welcome further comments on this matter from anyone having personal experiences or other data to report.

Timur Born said:

Anders W said:

michaelnel said:

I'm using a Sirui N-2204 with the K20X ballhead. It's kind of overkill for mft, but I bought it for the Nikon D7000 I no longer own. Frankly, I would rather be overgunned than undergunned when it comes to tripods, and this is a SUPER stable setup for my Panasonic DMC-GX1.

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Timur Born said:

In a prior post, Timur Born mentioned that some user reviews on Amazon.de indicated that it was a bit difficult to do very small/precise adjustments with the K20X. What are your own impressions in this regard? Is this a head that you can wholeheartedly recommend?

Click to expand...

Yes, keep the information coming, as I am on the market for a Sirui N2004 + K20X myself.

Some people on Amazon confirmed that the ball is a bit sticky. Or rather you have to overcome a certain resistance, which is problematic for small adjustments. Others answered that it's all fine, some of which use the K-10, though.

The price difference between the carbon vs. aluminum tripod is very steep (more than double) and at that point I am not sure if 300g + better absorption are worth the extra price for putting a M43 on top of the already absorbing head.

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I guess that depends on exactly what MFT stuff you put on top. I am still shocked by what I have seen from looking at magnified live view with the 100-300 at 300 with the camera-lens combo mounted on a seemingly sturdy tripod. You immediately start looking for a stone floor and a completely wind-shielded position. I am sure it's simply the extreme sensitivity of 600 mm EFL more than anything else but you are certainly grateful for any help you can get to counter it.

Timur Born said:

Anders W said:

michaelnel said:

I'm using a Sirui N-2204 with the K20X ballhead. It's kind of overkill for mft, but I bought it for the Nikon D7000 I no longer own. Frankly, I would rather be overgunned than undergunned when it comes to tripods, and this is a SUPER stable setup for my Panasonic DMC-GX1.

Click to expand...

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Timur Born said:

In a prior post, Timur Born mentioned that some user reviews on Amazon.de indicated that it was a bit difficult to do very small/precise adjustments with the K20X. What are your own impressions in this regard? Is this a head that you can wholeheartedly recommend?

Click to expand...

Yes, keep the information coming, as I am on the market for a Sirui N2004 + K20X myself.

Some people on Amazon confirmed that the ball is a bit sticky. Or rather you have to overcome a certain resistance, which is problematic for small adjustments. Others answered that it's all fine, some of which use the K-10, though.

The price difference between the carbon vs. aluminum tripod is very steep (more than double) and at that point I am not sure if 300g + better absorption are worth the extra price for putting a M43 on top of the already absorbing head.

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Just took a look myself at the reviews at amazon.de and couldn't find more than a couple of people complaining about the problem with small and precise adjustments. In general most people seemed happy with just about everything as reflected by the overall ratings: 22 gave 5 stars, 7 gave 4 stars, 1 gave 3 stars and 1 gave two stars.

Interestingly, I didn't find any reviews at all on amazon.com or amazon.co.uk although the product is available in both places. B&H offered only three. Seems like Sirui is particularly popular in Germany.

The latter may be due to both the Traumflieger review and the fact that Traumflieger is listed first on Sirui's German web-page. So take any such review with a grain of salt.

http://www.sirui-photo.de/buy.htm

Timur Born said:

The latter may be due to both the Traumflieger review and the fact that Traumflieger is listed first on Sirui's German web-page. So take any such review with a grain of salt.

http://www.sirui-photo.de/buy.htm

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I see what you mean. On the other hand Traumflieger sells a lot of other brands besides Sirui. And I guess the other heads they tested may also have been selected from the items they sell. This makes the results of the Traumfliger test/review much less suspect than it would otherwise have been.

I can't say it's "best," since I haven't tried them all, but I did a bunch of research and chose a Benro Travel Angel. I'm very happy with it.
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I've told myself to stop using "equivalent" focal lengths on m43. 25mm is what it is, and what it might be similar to on some other format doesn't matter to me any more. We need to learn what to expect from our current equipment, not keep mapping it to the old. No one refers to their 50mm FF lens as "equivalent to 80mm on MF."