RX100 or Fuji X10?

jdrx2012 said:

I neglected to acknowledge those two fabulous street shots(first and third). I have seen them before. Those shots make me say, "I wish I had taken that shot." By the way, if saying "fabulous" is cause me to lose my dude card I'm taking it back....just saying.

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Thanks Joe, very nice of you to say. I do a lot of different types of photography, but street is sort of my passion. Its only the inability of the RX100 to easily do a couple of things I do all the time in my shooting that keeps me from buying one. For some its probably a fine street camera already - for me its a couple of features (that could be added in firmware, but probably won't be) away. It would win for IQ but in terms of features and function and somewhat lesser IQ, I'm weighing another X10 (I had one for a while) or an LX7 (I had an LX5 too). Either of which would be fine - I sort of like the interface of the LX7 more but I like the IQ of the X10 more than I expect to like the LX7. Which doesn't matter a lot to me for street but does for other non-street shooting.

Anyway, again, thanks for the kind words. And you don't have to worry about punching some "dude card" with me.

-Ray
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/collections/72157626204295198/

Yes, we know you love Canons and ridicule those in the Canon forum who do not.

As you told me in my post on the Canon forum, go back to your Canon forum.

You speak quite differently than the way you conduct yourself in the Canon forum.

GaryJP said:

I have a G1X and an X10. I don't yet have the RX100.

I love the G1X. Neither of the others beats it on IQ. The lens is superb. The large sensor size wonderful, although there are trade-offs, of which macro is one. It's good with a close-up filter though.

To me, the X10 is not even in the competition with the RX100. I hated the "orb" problem. I don't like the fact that it's only a 6 megapixel camera if you want to use any EXR functions. The menu is complex. I don't like Fuji's behaviour as a company. And mostly, I am just not seeing the great results people tout in the photos they publish.

If I were you, and I didn't need the specific advantages of the G1X, I'd go for the RX100. For myself, I'll sell the X10 and keep the other two.

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Some favourite pics:

http://garyp.zenfolio.com/p518883873/

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I own both, my father is likely to get my X10 and I will keep the RX100 nomatter what. However it is NOT the one sided battle some as would tell you.

1) Even though its video is worthlessly jittery, the X10's OSS seems to work better. I hold like a statue to take shots with my RX100. Also being able to use a camera at the tele end without concern for slow aperture is advantageous.

2) People deride the EXR mode, but it really does work well, even shrunk to 6MP at ISO 1600 the Fuji seems brighter, in darker interiors such as museums the X10 is easier to get a clean shot in.

3) the OVF is not worthless and I prefer it over the on screen for making sure my shots are composed level, its bright clear and zooms. Even with the reduced coverage it does help if you actually try to get used to OVF composure.

That being said the RX100 is much smaller, in bright conditions ridiculously out resolves the X10 and its Autofocus is much more trustworthy. Also X10s are cheaper than chips and have long been used, I got mine in 2011(!) for well below retail used and had it replaced with a new one for the sensor swap.

X10





RX100





Needless to say the RX100 is the king of landscape, where as the X10 is more for getting the okay shake free shot in very difficult lighting where most cameras, including the RX100 would be pained to manage.

RX100





X10





You can still manage though with the RX100 if you really hold still and get luck though;

Someone asked for advice.

This is advice.

It was not directed at you.

And I am not the one conducting spurious polls on the forum of a camera I do not like in order to trash your pet camera.

snapshot09 said:

As you told me in my post on the Canon forum, go back to your Canon forum.

You speak quite differently than the way you conduct yourself in the Canon forum.

GaryJP said:

I have a G1X and an X10. I don't yet have the RX100.

I love the G1X. Neither of the others beats it on IQ. The lens is superb. The large sensor size wonderful, although there are trade-offs, of which macro is one. It's good with a close-up filter though.

To me, the X10 is not even in the competition with the RX100. I hated the "orb" problem. I don't like the fact that it's only a 6 megapixel camera if you want to use any EXR functions. The menu is complex. I don't like Fuji's behaviour as a company. And mostly, I am just not seeing the great results people tout in the photos they publish.

If I were you, and I didn't need the specific advantages of the G1X, I'd go for the RX100. For myself, I'll sell the X10 and keep the other two.

--
Some favourite pics:

http://garyp.zenfolio.com/p518883873/

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--
Some favourite pics:

http://garyp.zenfolio.com/p518883873/

danaceb said:

Needless to say the RX100 is the king of landscape, where as the X10 is more for getting the okay shake free shot in very difficult lighting where most cameras, including the RX100 would be pained to manage.

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I'm sure you'll do much better with the RX if you used one of the mult-shot modes like handheld twilight. Have you tried it in these museum situations yet vs. the Fuji?

No need to be so angry. Just because nearly none of us here love your G1X pet camera, there is no need to get into personal attacks. Many of us feel the RX100 is what the G1X should have been. You seem very defensive to those who are enthusiastic about the RX100 simply because there is little enthusiasm on the camera you chose.

GaryJP said:

This is advice.

It was not directed at you.

And I am not the one conducting spurious polls on the forum of a camera I do not like in order to trash your pet camera.

snapshot09 said:

As you told me in my post on the Canon forum, go back to your Canon forum.

You speak quite differently than the way you conduct yourself in the Canon forum.

GaryJP said:

I have a G1X and an X10. I don't yet have the RX100.

I love the G1X. Neither of the others beats it on IQ. The lens is superb. The large sensor size wonderful, although there are trade-offs, of which macro is one. It's good with a close-up filter though.

To me, the X10 is not even in the competition with the RX100. I hated the "orb" problem. I don't like the fact that it's only a 6 megapixel camera if you want to use any EXR functions. The menu is complex. I don't like Fuji's behaviour as a company. And mostly, I am just not seeing the great results people tout in the photos they publish.

If I were you, and I didn't need the specific advantages of the G1X, I'd go for the RX100. For myself, I'll sell the X10 and keep the other two.

--
Some favourite pics:

http://garyp.zenfolio.com/p518883873/

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Some favourite pics:

http://garyp.zenfolio.com/p518883873/

Click to expand...

I am one of those never found of multi-shot high ISO result. They look decidedly less sharp then nosier single shot. To the poster above, I guess X-10's harper image is mainly because of different holding posture (using OVF vs arm's length). My low light low shutter speed tests showed very good anti-shake mechanism in RX100.

bab4 said:

I'm sure you'll do much better with the RX if you used one of the mult-shot modes like handheld twilight. Have you tried it in these museum situations yet vs. the Fuji?

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that could be partly it, but not to the extent you think as I held both in the exact same position for the test. The X10 DOES NOT take multi shots in EXR mode, its a single exposure with pixel doubling. It can but as you know its only good for stills, I have not bothered with it yet for the RX100 and just let it do its thing, lowing the exposure to compensate for overexposure in low light. Most cameras seem to want to pull out their backgrounds at the expense of blowing out the subject in low light.

There is no doubt the the X10 is more secure in the hands, but I've shot enough(with both arms out and held in) to know for a fact that for anyone short of a tripod it is easier to get blur free with the X10 in EXR mode.

The RX100 is soo noisy in the same light (or muddy should you not disable NR) that a clean 6MP works well. I personally find the X10 at its worse at low ISOs, where as thats where the RX100 stomps over all its competition.

There are other compacts I'd stack up against the Rx100 before the X10, namely the Samsung and the Lumix LX7. If you shoot a lot of architecture and landscapes the RX100 probably won't be best, but for just about everything else it's pretty sweet.

By the way great shot, Ray!

Ray Sachs said:

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LX7 not yet, it does not have significant crispness over the S100 or X10 based off of all online samples for now it seems. The BSI samsung to me seems by far and away the best probable contender. Also we are talking fixed lens sub $800 point & clicks here, sorry but in there the RX100 is king of landscape, just as it seems to be for street.

I've been testing my RX100 and X10 some more, this illustrates the EXR hat trick as from both set to -3 EV ISO800. Both held close handheld.





The X10 is able to get shots brighter and preserve detail better in the dark, but then again that just means P&S still have a way to go.





I like to go to museums, the kind of places they don't like tripods or flash, so interchangeable fast glass is still a must. X10 for that just good enough facebook shot, RX100 for the wow shot in decent light, and the heavy stuff for the heavy work.

Unfortunately, none of those are really competitors given their sensor size is too small nor will they fit in my pocket.

Jimmyjoebob said:

There are other compacts I'd stack up against the Rx100 before the X10, namely the Samsung and the Lumix LX7. If you shoot a lot of architecture and landscapes the RX100 probably won't be best, but for just about everything else it's pretty sweet.

By the way great shot, Ray!

Ray Sachs said:

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If this was previously posted, accept my apology as I missed it. I offer it here because there is much excitement and debate about the LX7. After looking through the tests it makes me think that LX7 will be okay at lower ISOs...and I am not saying the RX100 is stellar at 1600/3200 but it does a better job there than some others in this grouping of advanced compacts.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/panasonic-lx7/panasonic-lx7A.HTM

snapshot09 said:

Unfortunately, none of those are really competitors given their sensor size is too small nor will they fit in my pocket.

Jimmyjoebob said:

There are other compacts I'd stack up against the Rx100 before the X10, namely the Samsung and the Lumix LX7. If you shoot a lot of architecture and landscapes the RX100 probably won't be best, but for just about everything else it's pretty sweet.

By the way great shot, Ray!

Ray Sachs wrote:

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--
Joe D.

Many people compare a camera to any other camera, but that doesn't always mean they are "true" competitors.

To me, a true RX100 competitor is another camera that will fit in my pocket, has a sensor size larger than 1/1.7", and a built in flash.

jdrx2012 said:

If this was previously posted, accept my apology as I missed it. I offer it here because there is much excitement and debate about the LX7. After looking through the tests it makes me think that LX7 will be okay at lower ISOs...and I am not saying the RX100 is stellar at 1600/3200 but it does a better job there than some others in this grouping of advanced compacts.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/panasonic-lx7/panasonic-lx7A.HTM

snapshot09 said:

Unfortunately, none of those are really competitors given their sensor size is too small nor will they fit in my pocket.

Jimmyjoebob said:

There are other compacts I'd stack up against the Rx100 before the X10, namely the Samsung and the Lumix LX7. If you shoot a lot of architecture and landscapes the RX100 probably won't be best, but for just about everything else it's pretty sweet.

By the way great shot, Ray!

Ray Sachs wrote:

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--
Joe D.

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snapshot09 said:

Unfortunately, none of those are really competitors given their sensor size is too small nor will they fit in my pocket.

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As you illustrate very well, we each get to determine who the competitors are for OUR own given needs/wants. To me, the RX100, LX7, and X10 are ABSOLUTELY competitors because I'm considering all three of them. For MY NEEDS, they each have competing strengths and weaknesses. Image quality is just one attribute on my list, whether it fits in a pants pocket is not on my list but sounds like it is on yours, significantly narrowing the field. To me, OTOH, cameras with fairly different sensor sizes can still compete for my dollar. The 1" sensor in the Sony is not suddenly the minimum sensor size I'll consider - there are compromises associated with getting that sensor in such a small camera. Some of the competing criterial are more important for my needs.

Magazines and web sites have to group cameras for comparison so they figure out who THEY consider competitors. The product managers for Sony and Panasonic and Fuji damn sure know who THEY consider competitors. But to you, the only thing that matters is the camera's YOU'RE willing to consider. And the same for each of us.

-Ray
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/collections/72157626204295198/

to my way of defining things, the advanced compact group are all competitors. Consumers choose among them for their own reasons but that doesn't change what group of cameras they are in.

snapshot09 said:

Many people compare a camera to any other camera, but that doesn't always mean they are "true" competitors.

To me, a true RX100 competitor is another camera that will fit in my pocket, has a sensor size larger than 1/1.7", and a built in flash.

jdrx2012 said:

If this was previously posted, accept my apology as I missed it. I offer it here because there is much excitement and debate about the LX7. After looking through the tests it makes me think that LX7 will be okay at lower ISOs...and I am not saying the RX100 is stellar at 1600/3200 but it does a better job there than some others in this grouping of advanced compacts.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/panasonic-lx7/panasonic-lx7A.HTM

snapshot09 said:

Unfortunately, none of those are really competitors given their sensor size is too small nor will they fit in my pocket.

Jimmyjoebob said:

There are other compacts I'd stack up against the Rx100 before the X10, namely the Samsung and the Lumix LX7. If you shoot a lot of architecture and landscapes the RX100 probably won't be best, but for just about everything else it's pretty sweet.

By the way great shot, Ray!

Ray Sachs wrote:

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--
Joe D.

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--
Joe D.

Very true, as I mentioned, that is based on my needs and it is all up to the individual to decide what is most important...great to have choices.

Ray Sachs said:

snapshot09 said:

Unfortunately, none of those are really competitors given their sensor size is too small nor will they fit in my pocket.

Click to expand...

As you illustrate very well, we each get to determine who the competitors are for OUR own given needs/wants. To me, the RX100, LX7, and X10 are ABSOLUTELY competitors because I'm considering all three of them. For MY NEEDS, they each have competing strengths and weaknesses. Image quality is just one attribute on my list, whether it fits in a pants pocket is not on my list but sounds like it is on yours, significantly narrowing the field. To me, OTOH, cameras with fairly different sensor sizes can still compete for my dollar. The 1" sensor in the Sony is not suddenly the minimum sensor size I'll consider - there are compromises associated with getting that sensor in such a small camera. Some of the competing criterial are more important for my needs.

Magazines and web sites have to group cameras for comparison so they figure out who THEY consider competitors. The product managers for Sony and Panasonic and Fuji damn sure know who THEY consider competitors. But to you, the only thing that matters is the camera's YOU'RE willing to consider. And the same for each of us.

-Ray
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/collections/72157626204295198/

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