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RX100 or Fuji X10?

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Davidgilmour

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I am in the market for a (relatively) compact zoom camera.
What are the pros and cons of these two cameras?

Which would be a better deal considering everything, i.e. prices, sensor, size, jpeg quality, handling etc?
 
You can read all the reviews (they're plenty) and try both at stores. Here is my reason why not to consider X-10 (yes I had it for a week and returned it):

1) You have to activate EXR mode for better dynamic range, better high ISO performance, at the cost of 50% less resolution (6MP). Sure it's fine for Facebook or online forum sharing, but very limited for me to make large print (I shoot landscape).

2) Under aperture priority mode, there is severe exposure error (usually over exp) when you use wide aperture. This limitation can only be avoided by using EXR mode.

3) Of course there is the famous "white orb" problem. I know Fuji has revised sensor for the fix, but the problem is that they don't recall any of the inventory already on market. It's up to user to ask for replacement. I don't like the business practice.

OTOH for $50 more, RX100 completely destroy X-10 (or S100, XZ-1, G12 for that matter) in every possible way except near useless viewfinder. Sony raised the bar very high this time, any "advanced P&S" purchase other than RX100 seems to be waste of money.
 
I agree fully with your arguments!
Happy as never with my RX100.
--
Christian
 
Have you been reading any RX100 reviews? There really is no other high-end compact worth buying right now. The X10 is not in the same league.
Davidgilmour said:
I am in the market for a (relatively) compact zoom camera.
What are the pros and cons of these two cameras?

Which would be a better deal considering everything, i.e. prices, sensor, size, jpeg quality, handling etc?
Click to expand...
 
Davidgilmour said:
I am in the market for a (relatively) compact zoom camera.
Click to expand...
The only pro that the X10 has, for me, is the optical viewfinder. The rest goes to the RX100. So if a viewfinder isn't important to you, go for the Sony.
 
Sounds like you need to decide what you want in a camera. First question is pocket size camera or not.
Davidgilmour said:
I am in the market for a (relatively) compact zoom camera.
What are the pros and cons of these two cameras?

Which would be a better deal considering everything, i.e. prices, sensor, size, jpeg quality, handling etc?
Click to expand...
 
The RX100 has the best/largest sensor in the genre right now, by a good bit and by consensus. But there are tradeoffs with shoe-horning that large a sensor into that small a camera. The zoom range is the same as the X10 but the X10 is much faster through the range. And based on early reports of some corner softness and perhaps vignetting in the RX100, the lens in the X10 may be somewhat better mated to the sensor.

Its true that to get comparable DR and low light performance out of the X10, you need to use the EXR mode - that's just the size and superiority of the Sony sensor at work again. I personally was very happy with the X10 in EXR mode - the resolution is lower but I have a few 12x18" prints from the X10 that are beautiful and that's as large as I tend to print, so the resolution is enough for me. If you want huge prints, the Sony has a clear advantage. The Sony also has more technological tricks than you can imagine, if you like playing around with those. Auto panorama, auto HDR, auto all sorts of stuff. The X10 has some of that too (pretty nice panorama function actually) but you have to go with the Sony for technical tricks and art filters and such.

In terms of interface, I'll take the X10. I like the manual zoom and I LOVE having the exposure comp dial right on the top of the camera where I can see it and change it without pushing any buttons. And then of course there's the OVF which is a big deal to some and not to others. And then there's the "pocketability" question - if you gotta stick a camera in your pants pocket, the RX100 is bettered only by the Canon S100 in the decent camera range. The X10 and LX7 and pretty much everything else is coat pocketable but not really pants pocketable. I don't care about pants pocketable, but a lot of folks around here seem to...

The RX100 appears to be the best option right now if pure IQ is your top priority. In my OPINION, the new LX7 looks like the best option purely in terms of handling and interface and lens speed - man if I could combine the best of those two cameras I'd be set. For ME, though, today, the X-10 looks like the best compromise mix of IQ and handling in the small camera market. I had one and loved it but for the orbs, but now that they've fixed the sensors, it would still be my choice. But that's today. In another couple of months, the landscape probably will have changed. Someday that Sony sensor will show up in a CAMERA that will be more appealing to me than the RX100 and that'll be the bomb. But for now, you have to choose among pretty distinct tradeoffs. I'd probably wait until Photokina and see what's coming, but if you gotta have one now...

-Ray
-------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/collections/72157626204295198/
 
Ray Sachs said:
The RX100 has the best/largest sensor in the genre right now, by a good bit and by consensus. But there are tradeoffs with shoe-horning that large a sensor into that small a camera. The zoom range is the same as the X10 but the X10 is much faster through the range. And based on early reports of some corner softness and perhaps vignetting in the RX100, the lens in the X10 may be somewhat better mated to the sensor.

Its true that to get comparable DR and low light performance out of the X10, you need to use the EXR mode - that's just the size and superiority of the Sony sensor at work again. I personally was very happy with the X10 in EXR mode - the resolution is lower but I have a few 12x18" prints from the X10 that are beautiful and that's as large as I tend to print, so the resolution is enough for me. If you want huge prints, the Sony has a clear advantage. The Sony also has more technological tricks than you can imagine, if you like playing around with those. Auto panorama, auto HDR, auto all sorts of stuff. The X10 has some of that too (pretty nice panorama function actually) but you have to go with the Sony for technical tricks and art filters and such.

In terms of interface, I'll take the X10. I like the manual zoom and I LOVE having the exposure comp dial right on the top of the camera where I can see it and change it without pushing any buttons. And then of course there's the OVF which is a big deal to some and not to others. And then there's the "pocketability" question - if you gotta stick a camera in your pants pocket, the RX100 is bettered only by the Canon S100 in the decent camera range. The X10 and LX7 and pretty much everything else is coat pocketable but not really pants pocketable. I don't care about pants pocketable, but a lot of folks around here seem to...

The RX100 appears to be the best option right now if pure IQ is your top priority. In my OPINION, the new LX7 looks like the best option purely in terms of handling and interface and lens speed - man if I could combine the best of those two cameras I'd be set. For ME, though, today, the X-10 looks like the best compromise mix of IQ and handling in the small camera market. I had one and loved it but for the orbs, but now that they've fixed the sensors, it would still be my choice. But that's today. In another couple of months, the landscape probably will have changed. Someday that Sony sensor will show up in a CAMERA that will be more appealing to me than the RX100 and that'll be the bomb. But for now, you have to choose among pretty distinct tradeoffs. I'd probably wait until Photokina and see what's coming, but if you gotta have one now...

-Ray
-------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/collections/72157626204295198/
Click to expand...
A great reply to the OP's question.
 
As a past owner of the X10 I agree with some of these comments. I liked it for black & white shooting and it has a good AEB range. I didn't like looking at the lens at in the viewfinder but it is better than ov on the G12, G1X in my opinion. All in all, it comes up short against RX100 for the more salient aspects that matter to me.

Here is a sample pic I shot with the X!0.




Ray Sachs said:
The RX100 has the best/largest sensor in the genre right now, by a good bit and by consensus. But there are tradeoffs with shoe-horning that large a sensor into that small a camera. The zoom range is the same as the X10 but the X10 is much faster through the range. And based on early reports of some corner softness and perhaps vignetting in the RX100, the lens in the X10 may be somewhat better mated to the sensor.

Its true that to get comparable DR and low light performance out of the X10, you need to use the EXR mode - that's just the size and superiority of the Sony sensor at work again. I personally was very happy with the X10 in EXR mode - the resolution is lower but I have a few 12x18" prints from the X10 that are beautiful and that's as large as I tend to print, so the resolution is enough for me. If you want huge prints, the Sony has a clear advantage. The Sony also has more technological tricks than you can imagine, if you like playing around with those. Auto panorama, auto HDR, auto all sorts of stuff. The X10 has some of that too (pretty nice panorama function actually) but you have to go with the Sony for technical tricks and art filters and such.

In terms of interface, I'll take the X10. I like the manual zoom and I LOVE having the exposure comp dial right on the top of the camera where I can see it and change it without pushing any buttons. And then of course there's the OVF which is a big deal to some and not to others. And then there's the "pocketability" question - if you gotta stick a camera in your pants pocket, the RX100 is bettered only by the Canon S100 in the decent camera range. The X10 and LX7 and pretty much everything else is coat pocketable but not really pants pocketable. I don't care about pants pocketable, but a lot of folks around here seem to...

The RX100 appears to be the best option right now if pure IQ is your top priority. In my OPINION, the new LX7 looks like the best option purely in terms of handling and interface and lens speed - man if I could combine the best of those two cameras I'd be set. For ME, though, today, the X-10 looks like the best compromise mix of IQ and handling in the small camera market. I had one and loved it but for the orbs, but now that they've fixed the sensors, it would still be my choice. But that's today. In another couple of months, the landscape probably will have changed. Someday that Sony sensor will show up in a CAMERA that will be more appealing to me than the RX100 and that'll be the bomb. But for now, you have to choose among pretty distinct tradeoffs. I'd probably wait until Photokina and see what's coming, but if you gotta have one now...

-Ray
-------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/collections/72157626204295198/
Click to expand...
--
Joe D.
 
jdrx2012 said:
As a past owner of the X10 I agree with some of these comments. I liked it for black & white shooting and it has a good AEB range. I didn't like looking at the lens at in the viewfinder but it is better than ov on the G12, G1X in my opinion. All in all, it comes up short against RX100 for the more salient aspects that matter to me.
Click to expand...
That's kind of the point - what matters to each of us. I figured it was better to discuss some of the tradeoffs rather than just a blanket statement of "this is the best small camera EVER", which is true in some ways but not terribly helpful to someone trying to determine if its right for him...

For example, I'm not bothered by the corner softness and reports of de-centered lenses on the RX100 while other people are VERY bothered by that type of thing. The X10 is better here, but not really salient to me. I do a lot of street photography and B&W conversions and the ultimate IQ is generally not as big a concern for me as the way a camera handles and how I mesh with the interface. In that respect the X10 comes up a winner for me, but understandably not for others. In that respect the LX7 would probably be the best of all for me, but I'm still skeptical about the smaller sensor than the LX5, though, which is why I see the X10 as a good compromise. Again, just for my priorities.

I was quite happy with the X10 for color too. I love their film modes and Fujis are the only digital cameras I've ever owned where I preferred shooting jpegs to raw. Here are a couple of color and one B&W X10 shot from during the time I had it. The first color and the B&W are full resolution (and the first is obviously manipulated a good bit) - the second color is in EXR mode. I have 1218" prints of both of these color shots that look as good as I could ever want. 20x30 might be a different story, particularly for the EXR shot. I know the Sony has better ultimate IQ and a lot of people find that to be all that matters, but its not like its a night and day difference and most of these cameras are capable of plenty. So it comes down to the shooting experience to me, in more cases than not.







-Ray
-------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/collections/72157626204295198/
 
The X10 is still a great camera, but just like many others, the RX100 is the newest therefore shows the most advancement. I am sure the X15 or X20 will be even more impressive.
jdrx2012 said:
As a past owner of the X10 I agree with some of these comments. I liked it for black & white shooting and it has a good AEB range. I didn't like looking at the lens at in the viewfinder but it is better than ov on the G12, G1X in my opinion. All in all, it comes up short against RX100 for the more salient aspects that matter to me.

Here is a sample pic I shot with the X!0.




Ray Sachs said:
The RX100 has the best/largest sensor in the genre right now, by a good bit and by consensus. But there are tradeoffs with shoe-horning that large a sensor into that small a camera. The zoom range is the same as the X10 but the X10 is much faster through the range. And based on early reports of some corner softness and perhaps vignetting in the RX100, the lens in the X10 may be somewhat better mated to the sensor.

Its true that to get comparable DR and low light performance out of the X10, you need to use the EXR mode - that's just the size and superiority of the Sony sensor at work again. I personally was very happy with the X10 in EXR mode - the resolution is lower but I have a few 12x18" prints from the X10 that are beautiful and that's as large as I tend to print, so the resolution is enough for me. If you want huge prints, the Sony has a clear advantage. The Sony also has more technological tricks than you can imagine, if you like playing around with those. Auto panorama, auto HDR, auto all sorts of stuff. The X10 has some of that too (pretty nice panorama function actually) but you have to go with the Sony for technical tricks and art filters and such.

In terms of interface, I'll take the X10. I like the manual zoom and I LOVE having the exposure comp dial right on the top of the camera where I can see it and change it without pushing any buttons. And then of course there's the OVF which is a big deal to some and not to others. And then there's the "pocketability" question - if you gotta stick a camera in your pants pocket, the RX100 is bettered only by the Canon S100 in the decent camera range. The X10 and LX7 and pretty much everything else is coat pocketable but not really pants pocketable. I don't care about pants pocketable, but a lot of folks around here seem to...

The RX100 appears to be the best option right now if pure IQ is your top priority. In my OPINION, the new LX7 looks like the best option purely in terms of handling and interface and lens speed - man if I could combine the best of those two cameras I'd be set. For ME, though, today, the X-10 looks like the best compromise mix of IQ and handling in the small camera market. I had one and loved it but for the orbs, but now that they've fixed the sensors, it would still be my choice. But that's today. In another couple of months, the landscape probably will have changed. Someday that Sony sensor will show up in a CAMERA that will be more appealing to me than the RX100 and that'll be the bomb. But for now, you have to choose among pretty distinct tradeoffs. I'd probably wait until Photokina and see what's coming, but if you gotta have one now...

-Ray
-------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/collections/72157626204295198/
Click to expand...
--
Joe D.
Click to expand...
 
MT said:
Ray,

Quick question. are you sure that in the EXR mode, the X10 really does match the Sony in noise level and DR?
Click to expand...
I don't think all of the numbers are out there on the RX100, but my strong impression from looking at images is the X10 in EXR mode will better the DR of the basic sensor on the RX100. By the time you use the three shot HDR mode, I think the Sony gains a stop or so over the X10. One form of trickery vs another I guess. As far as low noise, the Sony looks pretty impressive at 3200, while the X10 looks very good at 1600 but breaks down quite a bit by 3200 - I wouldn't use it above 2500 personally.

In short, I don't know if the X10 technically "matches" the Sony - I just know its quite good, was the best of the compacts before the RX100 came along, and still looks close enough to me compete. Its good enough for me to be very satisfied with it, at which point the question turns to other issues like interface, handling, OVF, etc. Technically, it probably doesn't match the Sony, but its not the night and day difference some would have you believe...

-Ray
-------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/collections/72157626204295198/
 
I have an X10, and RX100, and a Canon G1X. I've only had the RX100 for a few days.

I need a camera for work that does macro reasonably well. The X10 was tough, so I set it aside for a G1x. The macro on that is even worse, but with the large sensor I could move farther away and crop what I needed. The RX100 is better, provided you shoot from the wide angle setting. The G1x was also useful to me as it has the articulating screen, which comes in handy for my work (I do engineering services on rotating equipment in the NYC office buildings, and I often have to take photos of equipment nameplates)

I shoot everything RAW, including the X10.

The G1x has fantastic IQ. It is also slow, big, and heavy. After seeing the IQ and small size of the RX100, and the fact that it is ok for work, I am planning to sell the G1x.

I was also thinking of selling the Fuji. With the G1x having replaced it as my every day carry camera, I used it mostly for dedicated street photography (which it is great at), and as a small elegant camera to be used in restaurants and stuff like that where I would like a small camera and no flash.

However when I took it out the other night, I was reminded that the Fuji still has many advantages over the RX100. First, the great optical viewfinder. Second, the flash shoe (and I have a Fuji flash). The speed with which it can be brought into operation. The manual zoom, and the threaded cable release, in which sits an Abramasomn (sp) button. Also the dedicated exposure comp dial was nice, altho I have assigned that function to the lens dial on the RX100. The RX100 has more p&s limitations.

I have to say tho that it looks like the RX100 will also be a great street shooter 'from the hip'. I put it in MF the other day and it was really fast. STill, I think the Fuji, with its choice of viewing modes, is better.

So I've decided to keep the X10, and the RX100, and get rid of the Canon. I'm lucky that I have been able to have all three at one time.

The Fuji's battery life is ridiculous, and the Sony doesn't seem much better. Sony's lack of a manual and battery charger is annoying, altho fixable via ebay.

However if I were facing the choice btw an X10 and an RX100, and could have only one, that would be tough. The Fuji is more versatile, and I think a better street shooter. The Sony is better IQ, and of course is smaller. Would probably depend on what I am generally shooting.

--
http://www.pbase.com/dentontay
 
Denton Taylor said:
I need a camera for work that does macro reasonably well. The X10 was tough, so I set it aside for a G1x. The macro on that is even worse, but with the large sensor I could move farther away and crop what I needed. The RX100 is better, provided you shoot from the wide angle setting.
Click to expand...
Why is macro on X10 tough? It focuses the closest out of G1X and RX100
 
I neglected to acknowledge those two fabulous street shots(first and third). I have seen them before. Those shots make me say, "I wish I had taken that shot." By the way, if saying "fabulous" is cause me to lose my dude card I'm taking it back....just saying.
Ray Sachs said:
MT said:
Ray,

Quick question. are you sure that in the EXR mode, the X10 really does match the Sony in noise level and DR?
Click to expand...
I don't think all of the numbers are out there on the RX100, but my strong impression from looking at images is the X10 in EXR mode will better the DR of the basic sensor on the RX100. By the time you use the three shot HDR mode, I think the Sony gains a stop or so over the X10. One form of trickery vs another I guess. As far as low noise, the Sony looks pretty impressive at 3200, while the X10 looks very good at 1600 but breaks down quite a bit by 3200 - I wouldn't use it above 2500 personally.

In short, I don't know if the X10 technically "matches" the Sony - I just know its quite good, was the best of the compacts before the RX100 came along, and still looks close enough to me compete. Its good enough for me to be very satisfied with it, at which point the question turns to other issues like interface, handling, OVF, etc. Technically, it probably doesn't match the Sony, but its not the night and day difference some would have you believe...

-Ray
-------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/collections/72157626204295198/
Click to expand...
--
Joe D.
 
Great comparison for someone having all 3 cameras.
Denton Taylor said:
I have an X10, and RX100, and a Canon G1X. I've only had the RX100 for a few days.

I need a camera for work that does macro reasonably well. The X10 was tough, so I set it aside for a G1x. The macro on that is even worse, but with the large sensor I could move farther away and crop what I needed. The RX100 is better, provided you shoot from the wide angle setting. The G1x was also useful to me as it has the articulating screen, which comes in handy for my work (I do engineering services on rotating equipment in the NYC office buildings, and I often have to take photos of equipment nameplates)

I shoot everything RAW, including the X10.

The G1x has fantastic IQ. It is also slow, big, and heavy. After seeing the IQ and small size of the RX100, and the fact that it is ok for work, I am planning to sell the G1x.

I was also thinking of selling the Fuji. With the G1x having replaced it as my every day carry camera, I used it mostly for dedicated street photography (which it is great at), and as a small elegant camera to be used in restaurants and stuff like that where I would like a small camera and no flash.

However when I took it out the other night, I was reminded that the Fuji still has many advantages over the RX100. First, the great optical viewfinder. Second, the flash shoe (and I have a Fuji flash). The speed with which it can be brought into operation. The manual zoom, and the threaded cable release, in which sits an Abramasomn (sp) button. Also the dedicated exposure comp dial was nice, altho I have assigned that function to the lens dial on the RX100. The RX100 has more p&s limitations.

I have to say tho that it looks like the RX100 will also be a great street shooter 'from the hip'. I put it in MF the other day and it was really fast. STill, I think the Fuji, with its choice of viewing modes, is better.

So I've decided to keep the X10, and the RX100, and get rid of the Canon. I'm lucky that I have been able to have all three at one time.

The Fuji's battery life is ridiculous, and the Sony doesn't seem much better. Sony's lack of a manual and battery charger is annoying, altho fixable via ebay.

However if I were facing the choice btw an X10 and an RX100, and could have only one, that would be tough. The Fuji is more versatile, and I think a better street shooter. The Sony is better IQ, and of course is smaller. Would probably depend on what I am generally shooting.

--
http://www.pbase.com/dentontay
Click to expand...
 
I have a G1X and an X10. I don't yet have the RX100.

I love the G1X. Neither of the others beats it on IQ. The lens is superb. The large sensor size wonderful, although there are trade-offs, of which macro is one. It's good with a close-up filter though.

To me, the X10 is not even in the competition with the RX100. I hated the "orb" problem. I don't like the fact that it's only a 6 megapixel camera if you want to use any EXR functions. The menu is complex. I don't like Fuji's behaviour as a company. And mostly, I am just not seeing the great results people tout in the photos they publish.

If I were you, and I didn't need the specific advantages of the G1X, I'd go for the RX100. For myself, I'll sell the X10 and keep the other two.

--
Some favourite pics:

http://garyp.zenfolio.com/p518883873/
 
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