Carbon Fibre tripod - advantages? disadvantages? Advice please...

I currently have a Manfrotto 190B tripod on which I use a Velbon PH-263 ball head. My camera is an EOS 20D.

Mainly used for night and landscape photography, I'm soon going travelling through Asia and want to take a tripod with me, but to be honest this thing is really heavy.

I don't want to take a compact tripod as I need the height of what I have now (in fact would even like a little more height).

So I'm considering replacing the tripod with a carbon fibre to reduce weight, but wondering if anyone has advice on this:

a) Will the weight reduction be very noticeable given that I'll be wearing a backpack of around 15-20kg most days?

b) Will carbon fibre, being lighter in weight be a lot less stable in exposed windy areas (mountainsides etc) where I'll be shooting?

c) Any specific models anybody recommends? My budget really isn't big as I'm buying a tilt-shift lens already.

Thanks in advance for advice.

I've been reading many threads here like
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1023&thread=41985270
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1023&thread=42002856
and others.

Some great info in those, but still don't feel any clearer on a few issues.

Firstly, that stability issue due to lighter CF legs vs aluminium. Does lightweight = problems in even gentle winds?

Secondly, I prefer clip or knob locking on the leg sections (which Manfrotto tripods use) rather than the twist locking such as on the Gitzo GT-1550T, Sirui T-1205X and others.
Can anyone recommend any non-Manfrotto legs with clip-style locking?

Thirdly, unlike a number of other posters on the forums, size is not a major consideration, but weight. I'm happy for a longer set of legs as long as they're not heavy.

Thanks again in advance for suggestions.

--My take on this in your situation is that when travelling with a 15-20 kg package, a couple of hundred grams won't matter that much. Especially if the tripod isn't that big. Size could be a bigger problem when travelling. I have a 3 series Gitzo systematic which is about 1.7 kg. While I don't think that is too heavy for me to travel around with it does have a large top plate which makes it a little inconvenient because it takes up so much space. My Arca Swiss po head is an ideal head for travelling: strong, light and anything but bulky.

Maybe windy surcomstances make carbon fibre more shaky, but then you can hang your bag from the hook underneath it (if it has one) to make it more heavy..works for me..
http://www.flickr.com/photos/guido_2007/

Ideally, the lens captures what the eye had in mind...but the damn thing won't listen.

Geedorama said:

--My take on this in your situation is that when travelling with a 15-20 kg package, a couple of hundred grams won't matter that much. Especially if the tripod isn't that big. Size could be a bigger problem when travelling. I have a 3 series Gitzo systematic which is about 1.7 kg. While I don't think that is too heavy for me to travel around with it does have a large top plate which makes it a little inconvenient because it takes up so much space. My Arca Swiss po head is an ideal head for travelling: strong, light and anything but bulky.

Maybe windy surcomstances make carbon fibre more shaky, but then you can hang your bag from the hook underneath it (if it has one) to make it more heavy..works for me..
http://www.flickr.com/photos/guido_2007/

Ideally, the lens captures what the eye had in mind...but the damn thing won't listen.

Click to expand...

You will be able to lose about 1kg total weight with CF legs in a tripod with enough height for you (Feisol CT-3441T, Sirui 1200 series). You're already traveling with a ballhead that's 30% lighter than anything else on the market. CF tripods are less prone to vibration and are stiffer than alu; the trick for maximum damping and stablility is leg diameter, minimizing the number of leg sections, and using the hanging hook. Any tripod will get more squirrely in the wind; again, the trick here is to increase the weight of the mounting platform to more than 2x the weight of the camera equipment+ballhead by hanging your pack from the hook. Weight limitations of the tripod when doing so can be dealt with by hanging your pack from the hook with a cord and lifting one end of the pack up by the cord until you reach the load you want.

With the advent of non-rotating legs, lever locks are not as advantageous, and you generally won't find them on the lower-priced CF tripods. They're also more compact than lever locks of the Manfrotto variety, so have noticeable advantages for a travel tripod. You'll have to accept that.

Cost wise, CF ain't cheap. Around $400 seems to be entry level for any CF tripod from any manufacturer.

Bottom line, if reducing your pack weight by a pound out of 30 or 40 is worth $400 to you, CF is how to do it. But that's not much weight reduction. If you're talking a day pack with maybe 8-10kg all up, yeah, then CF makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately, the heaviest part of your kit is the camera equipment.

ebay auction: 261058393455 This is a flip lock version of Benro's travel angel. C-169, the flip lock version are also availabe in a 4 section and a 268 bigger 4 section. The head is ok. the rest of the pod is very stable. folded is 15.5" Carbon is better for stability than alluminum. hang you bag or something from the hook. YOU have to buy from asia and shipping is ussually les than 2 weeks. any part is avialable in the US.

I also favor flip locks. however twist locks are moisture resistant. Also make sure you take your dual wrench & allens just incase. Better head would be a photoclam!
Photclam also makes some great travel pods but only in twist locks

Benro travel pods also come with a built in monopod option in twistlocks and a 069 series in twist lock.

mosswings said:

With the advent of non-rotating legs, lever locks are not as advantageous....

Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply and advice - very helpful.

The comment on non-rotating legs however is totally new news to me. The main reason I've never liked twist locks is that the lower sections of the leg would often spin along with the locking ring if there was any contact with my hand.

Are you saying that lower sections of the legs of newer tripods won't spin in this way? If that's the case it would change things a lot for me...

Is it only certain brands/price brackets which are like this, or is it now the norm?

Steve48 said:

ebay auction: 261058393455...

Click to expand...

Thanks Steve for the info and links. Based on Mosswings' comments these may now be a very interesting option.

Newer twist locks don't rotate indeed...so your concern is answered.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/guido_2007/

Ideally, the lens captures what the eye had in mind...but the damn thing won't listen.

pavinder said:

mosswings said:

With the advent of non-rotating legs, lever locks are not as advantageous....

Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply and advice - very helpful.

The comment on non-rotating legs however is totally new news to me. The main reason I've never liked twist locks is that the lower sections of the leg would often spin along with the locking ring if there was any contact with my hand.

Are you saying that lower sections of the legs of newer tripods won't spin in this way? If that's the case it would change things a lot for me...

Is it only certain brands/price brackets which are like this, or is it now the norm?

Click to expand...

Seems to now be the norm for CF legs; as recently as a couple of years ago it was a higher cost option. Rotating legs (if at all offered) are offered as a lower cost option within the same product line, particularly with the entry of Chinese companies like Sirui and Benro into the market. Photo Clam is also now offering CF leg tripods, but at a bit higher price. The high-priced spread (Gitzo, RRS) have been non-rotating for several years.

mosswings wrote:

Rotating legs (if at all offered) are offered as a lower cost option within the same product line, particularly with the entry of Chinese companies like Sirui and Benro into the market.

Of the (apparently) higher quality CF travel tripods available at present, Feisol is the only one offering rotating or non-rotating (called Rapid) options - the Rapid legs are about $100 dearer than than the rotating legs.

--
Cheers,
Damien

dodgyexposure said:

mosswings wrote:

Rotating legs (if at all offered) are offered as a lower cost option within the same product line, particularly with the entry of Chinese companies like Sirui and Benro into the market.

Of the (apparently) higher quality CF travel tripods available at present, Feisol is the only one offering rotating or non-rotating (called Rapid) options - the Rapid legs are about $100 dearer than than the rotating legs.

--
Cheers,
Damien

Click to expand...

Indeed. All Sirui tripods are non-rotating. Photo Clam appears to be but does not claim so. Frankly, why bother with the option?

mosswings said:

Indeed. All Sirui tripods are non-rotating. Photo Clam appears to be but does not claim so. Frankly, why bother with the option?

Click to expand...

For those on a tighter budget? Clearing old stock? I can't imagine anyone preferring rotating legs.

--
Cheers,
Damien

I know your apprehensions . I went from a Manfrotto aluminum 3011 to a CF 055CXPRO3 and could not be happier. Points to consider: 4 sections are shorter closed, but have more flex then 3 section one. Levers show visually if in locked position, unlike circular knobs. Adorama and B&H house branded tripods seem to be good values if cost is a factor.
--
FYI avatar image is by Steve McCurry

Lightweight comes with shakiness and/or vibration. You'll need to apply some weight. Win someplace, but you lose another.

Rebuilt a flip-leg lock tripod recently for a friend. Most of the locks were slipping and threads were stripped. Had to replace a lot of them with normal bolts and nuts as the stripped threads were too far gone and pressed-in rivets were sliding sideways when flip lever was loose. Some tripod companies (Velbon comes to mind) will send you shims of varying thicknesses to fix them when they no longer lock from being compressed too long in storage (Not good to leave flippers locked, imho). His was a heavy aluminum one and probably would dent a car if one ran into it.

Non-rotating legs are nice, especially if they come with larger and easier to grip rubber tighteners. Better ones have sort of an air chamber where you can loosen a grip and it doesn't suddenly collapse one leg like a flipper does. Makes it easier to level up too.

Mack

Just another message of thanks for all your comments.

I ended up buying a Manfrotto 190MF-4, found one secondhand in almost perfect condition, just a few small scratches.

This:
http://www.manfrotto.com/190-mag-fiber-tripod-4-sct

It's very strong and sturdy. At 1.5kg, it's slightly heavier than I wanted but very compact, more so than the CF CXPRO models. Like those, it also has the ability to horizontally mount the centre column which will be ideal for making accurate stereo pair images for my experiments in 3D. It also has a spirit level built-in, a useful extra I haven't had before.

Admittedly with the MF-4 the switch to horizontal is not in one smooth movement like the CXPROs, but at only US$150 I thought the deal too good to miss.