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People who are disappointed by Canon's mirrorless...

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locke42 said:
IcyVeins said:
I didn't say the competition was better. Try reading comprehension next time.
Click to expand...
And I didn't say you said the competition was better. What I did was, I asked, "What has the competition come up with that's better?" Because if Canon releases something which is on par with the competition, then that's not something to criticize. You're making a neutral quality (competing equally with other manufacturers) into a negative.

Also, you may not have said the competition was better, but by saying that the EOS M is no better than the 2-year-old NEX-5, you sure as hell implied it.
locke42 said:
But to answer your question, this camera is about the same as a NEX-5, and the NEX-5N is clearly better than the NEX-5, so...
Click to expand...
How is this about the same as the NEX-5?

NEX-5
  • 14MP
  • No touchscreen
  • 1080i video
  • 200-12,800 ISO
  • No SLR lens support
NEX-5N
  • 16MP
  • Touchscreen
  • 1080p video
  • 200-25,600 ISO
  • SLR lens adapter
Canon EOS M (rumored)
  • 18MP
  • Touchscreen
  • 1080p video
  • 100-25,600 ISO
  • SLR lens adapter
Sure seems to be a lot closer to the NEX-5N to me, with 25,600 max ISO, touchscreen interface, higher MP, 1080p video recording, and an SLR lens adapter.
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Lol that's nice how you cherrypicked five specs to fit your brand-biased narrative. I like how you left off the tilt screen, focus peaking, larger grip, and faster FPS of the NEX-5 and NEX-5N. That's just off the top of my head. And what's more, the NEX-5N is last year's model, it's not even going to be the real competition. Wait till the NEX-F5 and probably another high end NEX in the fall that are rumored to have wifi, a 360-degree flip screen for self portraits, and a 16-50mm pancake zoom. At that point it will be clear just how far behind the curve this camera is.
 
LMAO! Did you just cut and paste that list from the Web?

None of the 'issues' you so careful googled have any impact on the cameras ability to deliver stunning images.

As a 20+ year Canon user - this is the only non Canon camera that has ever got me to part with my hard earned cash.

And it's done that by matching and in some cases exceeding the IQ from my 5DII and L lenses.

--
http://www.dodkin.com
[email protected]
Mac Pro/MacBook Pro/iPods/iPhones/iPad
 
LOL - stick an EF lens on that and see how big your Canon rig is then!

The X-Pro1 is lovely and light, compact, and has enabled me to take my camera everywhere again - which I'd stopped doing with the bulky 5DII.

--
http://www.dodkin.com
[email protected]
Mac Pro/MacBook Pro/iPods/iPhones/iPad
 
So volume of sales is the measure, not quality of images?

The X-Pro1 has the classic rangefinder dimensions, like those of the Canonet models from the 70's or the Leica's of today.

It's so much smaller and lighter than my 5DII and L glass, it makes all the difference in the world.

Smaller would just be difficult to handle.

--
http://www.dodkin.com
[email protected]
Mac Pro/MacBook Pro/iPods/iPhones/iPad
 
straylightrun said:
That's the majority of the general public. Why would Canon release a high end model for a much more smaller target audience as it's first mirrorless camera and then lose sales? Average joe doesn't need an EVF and would prefer a 'cool' touch screen over a plethora of external dials.
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You have missed the most successful launch of a mirrorless camera so far, Olympus OM-D. It is so successful precisely because it did take customers seriously.

You need to look it up:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympusem5/

Check this forum:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/forum.asp?forum=1041

Since OM-D came out, it pretty much took over the forum.

Is it as successful as DSLRs? No, of course not, that market is not as big yet, but the point is, a camera that was not dumbed down to the "Average Joe" turns out to be the most successful in its segment. Perhaps "Average Joe" is not what is driving that market?
 
IcyVeins said:
Lol that's nice how you cherrypicked five specs to fit your brand-biased narrative. I like how you left off the tilt screen, focus peaking, larger grip, and faster FPS of the NEX-5 and NEX-5N. That's just off the top of my head. And what's more, the NEX-5N is last year's model, it's not even going to be the real competition. Wait till the NEX-F5 and probably another high end NEX in the fall that are rumored to have wifi, a 360-degree flip screen for self portraits, and a 16-50mm pancake zoom. At that point it will be clear just how far behind the curve this camera is.
Click to expand...
The reality is that people who like Sony will buy NEX, and people who like Canon will buy EOS M. People will ask themselves: "Which company do I want to grow with? Which company do I want to 'lock-in' with?" Don't under-estimate the power of the brand when consumers make these kinds of decisions. The "DSLR Factor" is also probably going to play a big factor in how well these cameras are going to sell. Canon DSLR users are obviously going to be a lot more likely to add an EOS M to their equipment collection, while Sony DSLR users are going to be a lot more likely to add an NEX to their equipment collection. But of course, there are a heck of a lot more Canon DSLR users out there than Sony DSLR users!

Frankly, I think Canon is going to take a pretty big chunk out of NEX sales.
 
Chris Dodkin said:
So volume of sales is the measure, not quality of images?
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I don't think there's really any need to nitpick differences in image quality. All these cameras produce great image quality.
Member said:
The X-Pro1 has the classic rangefinder dimensions, like those of the Canonet models from the 70's or the Leica's of today.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but it's not the 1970's anymore, is it? Most people will say, "What they heck is a Canonet?" And the Leica M is a rather chunky beast, too.
Member said:
It's so much smaller and lighter than my 5DII and L glass, it makes all the difference in the world.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but the X-Pro1 isn't cross-compatible with Canon L glass or Canon Speedlites, is it? The EOS M is.
Member said:
Smaller would just be difficult to handle.
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I think the EOS M will handle just fine. The camera looks great, especially with that nifty add-on grip-case that Canon has made for it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPyhM2x9gT8

I also like the look of the EOS M's optional add-on flash better than the chunky, blocky, and frankly rather ugly hotshoe flash for the X-Pro1. And, of course, you'll be able to use any of Canon's other Speedlites with the EOS M, too.
 
Chris Dodkin said:
And even further cause for disappointment :(

http://youtu.be/bPyhM2x9gT8

Epic Fail would be an understatement

Where's my digital Canonet Canon!!!!
Click to expand...
Sure, sit on the sidelines while Canon sells boatloads of these cameras.

Frankly, I'm glad that Canon didn't go for the faux retro camera look. That retro look is a gimmick. "Oooh, look at me! I look like a rangefinder but I'm not really a rangefinder!"
 
This new EOS may have IQ on par or better than new T4i
but in more compact package.

It will appeal to folks who were thinking about G1X
but did not buy it because they could not fit their ultra-sharp lenses on it.

This camera looks great,
and it may outperform NEX and 4/3 cameras while having cheaper price.
 
T3 said:
IcyVeins said:
Lol that's nice how you cherrypicked five specs to fit your brand-biased narrative. I like how you left off the tilt screen, focus peaking, larger grip, and faster FPS of the NEX-5 and NEX-5N. That's just off the top of my head. And what's more, the NEX-5N is last year's model, it's not even going to be the real competition. Wait till the NEX-F5 and probably another high end NEX in the fall that are rumored to have wifi, a 360-degree flip screen for self portraits, and a 16-50mm pancake zoom. At that point it will be clear just how far behind the curve this camera is.
Click to expand...
The reality is that people who like Sony will buy NEX, and people who like Canon will buy EOS M. People will ask themselves: "Which company do I want to grow with? Which company do I want to 'lock-in' with?" Don't under-estimate the power of the brand when consumers make these kinds of decisions. The "DSLR Factor" is also probably going to play a big factor in how well these cameras are going to sell. Canon DSLR users are obviously going to be a lot more likely to add an EOS M to their equipment collection, while Sony DSLR users are going to be a lot more likely to add an NEX to their equipment collection. But of course, there are a heck of a lot more Canon DSLR users out there than Sony DSLR users!
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yes. i'm looking at this going .. what a great little emergency backup cam to just shove in my kit bag in case something goes wrong somewhere.

i'm sure alot of canon users will think the same thing .. little camera .. and can double as a backup camera.

if they allow tethering .. i'm in serious heaven as a great little astro camera.

most importantly assuming raw support .. my workflow doesnt' change one bit.

i've been sorely tempted to purchase a mirrorless for years now .. but there was always something that was wrong, different or simply .. i can't get here from there about it all.

speaking of faux retro camera look .. didn't you notice the faux leatherette half case for it? ;)
 
T3 said:
Frankly, I'm glad that Canon didn't go for the faux retro camera look. That retro look is a gimmick. "Oooh, look at me! I look like a rangefinder but I'm not really a rangefinder!"
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I was eating soup when I read that. You, Sir ...owe me a new keyboard.
 
onlooker said:
You have missed the most successful launch of a mirrorless camera so far, Olympus OM-D. It is so successful precisely because it did take customers seriously.
Since OM-D came out, it pretty much took over the forum.
Click to expand...
Maybe in its price segment, it can be considered "successful", but in terms of volume, it is not a huge seller.

In the BCN sales chart for the month of June in Japan (where mirrorless has the highest penetration rate), OM-D comes last among all the Olympus m4/3 cameras, and the top OM-D configuration is at #68 in the sales chart.
onlooker said:
Is it as successful as DSLRs? No, of course not, that market is not as big yet, but the point is, a camera that was not dumbed down to the "Average Joe" turns out to be the most successful in its segment. Perhaps "Average Joe" is not what is driving that market?
Click to expand...
Actually, your example of the OM-D has just proven the opposite, it is indeed the average joe which drives the market. OM-D may play a halo product or a flagship role, and it may have a higher margin of profit. But in terms of sales volume, it simply cannot compare with other lower specs offering - the market segment that the EOS M is aiming for.
 
as a canon user i find it very objectionable the amount of fanboy-ism going on in this thread

if the italian folks didnt have a defective camera, that focus speed is unacceptably slow. i also have an om-d and my 62 year old grandmother who's most advanced film camera shot 110 film has a panasonic gf5. both of these camera focus substantially faster under the exact same conditions than the machine shown in that video. my d30 and d60 focus faster in low light than that camera did with good, even lighting.

the placement of the video record button is another issue. if it can not be disabled entirely there will be a lot of people taking videos of their lens caps, and missing shots because they pull the camera up only to now have to wait for their lens-cap video to write out before shooting

being able to take EF lenses is nice but let's also be serious here - the % of the user base that will use large af lenses on their mirrorless is very, very small. the most common legacy lens useage is of the small FD, E and OM mount manual primes, and the whole point of going to the smaller camera is to reduce the weight and size of dealing with normal SLR equipment, not aggrivate the carpal tunnel by slapping a tiny box on the back of a 70-200mm 2.8
T3 said:
Chris Dodkin said:
And even further cause for disappointment :(

http://youtu.be/bPyhM2x9gT8

Epic Fail would be an understatement

Where's my digital Canonet Canon!!!!
Click to expand...
Sure, sit on the sidelines while Canon sells boatloads of these cameras.

Frankly, I'm glad that Canon didn't go for the faux retro camera look. That retro look is a gimmick. "Oooh, look at me! I look like a rangefinder but I'm not really a rangefinder!"
Click to expand...
 
Chris Dodkin said:
LMAO - you're defending the EOS M after that appalling demo video surfaced.

You've got b@lls - I'll give you that.
Click to expand...
you have the sound of someone trying to convince themselves that spending well over 2K on a fuji mirrorless rangefinder was a great idea.

what does the fuji x-pro1 have to do with this? it's larger (by alot), more expensive (god i hope so anyways)

Fuji is going after an entirely different niche to this camera is at least than the x-pro1.. it should be obvious to you. fuji has done what lecia wanted to do .. create a rangefinger experience and the image quality to match.

however, when your base buy in on a camera body is 1700 for a mirrorless. it's not the same as a mirrorless that is really a compact camera or smartphone replacement.

you CAN understand that a camera can be targetted at a specific segment right? and features may be different? right?

of course, we'll see .. if canon prices this high .. then well, god knows what the hell they were thinking ..

it's their first one into the market .. should be interesting .. even if you're obviously not a target customer.
 
rrccad said:
it's their first one into the market .. should be interesting .. even if you're obviously not a target customer.
Click to expand...
it's their first one, but i doubt it's taken them 3 years to develop and get it ready for production.
 
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