People who are disappointed by Canon's mirrorless...

$1,700.00 for body only and
Slow autofocus compared to its mirrorless peers
Dysfunctional manual focus
Overly-conservative DOF scale useless for zone focusing
Poor auto ISO implementation (uses too-slow shutter speeds)

Live Histogram doesn't work in manual exposure mode (always implies correct exposure)
No face detection AF system
Unimpressive video mode
Limited control customisation
Continuous drive mode uses different filename convention
Very low playback magnification when shooting RAW only

I am disappointed by the Canon mirrorless, and here's why.

OH WOW! A MIRRORLESS WITH AN APS-C sensor? Well, we already have 3 companies with that if you include Pentax. That's hardly reason enough to get excited considering it's a new lens mount.

It's fairly obvious based on the given specs that the mirrorless Canon has is basically an OVF-less version of the T4i. So, will it be a solid camera? Sure.

But will it offer something compelling, something revolutionary that other mirrorless companies don't offer right now? It won't have the usual selection of lenses that Canon can bargain on. All the mirrorless companies will have more lenses than it from the start, and good ones at that, especially Samsung and Sony.

It's thick for a rangefinder style, but it seems to have almost just as many controls as the Sony 5N, which is very little for its body size.

Will it have better video than a hacked GH2? Will it be weather sealed like the EM5? Will it have the lenses of either? Will it have Samsung's combo of second fullest lens system, great UI and competitive sensor? Will it have Sony's combo of class leading sensor, great video and rangefinder body crammed with tech, including best in class EVF? Probably nots to all of those.

My point is just that, if Canon is coming this late into the game, they better have a damn good reason, that reason being a better product than what they currently seem to have. Given Canon's experience and the timeline of mirrorless products, I don't care that it's a first generation product; Canon should've done better.

Is it a good camera? Yes. Will it sell? Being Canon, yes. Will I care? Will other people already invested in other mirrorless systems care? No. Because it doesn't offer a reason to switch, and switch a lot of people will have to do at this point should they go for it.

obviously this is from the perspective of myself and probably others who feel somewhat invested in another system already. certainly it will appeal to those who have free choice and do not feel bent towards one system or the other already.

jj74e said:

I am disappointed by the Canon mirrorless, and here's why.

OH WOW! A MIRRORLESS WITH AN APS-C sensor? Well, we already have 3 companies with that if you include Pentax. That's hardly reason enough to get excited considering it's a new lens mount.

It's fairly obvious based on the given specs that the mirrorless Canon has is basically an OVF-less version of the T4i. So, will it be a solid camera? Sure.

But will it offer something compelling, something revolutionary that other mirrorless companies don't offer right now? It won't have the usual selection of lenses that Canon can bargain on. All the mirrorless companies will have more lenses than it from the start, and good ones at that, especially Samsung and Sony.

Click to expand...

i mean Samsung and M4/3

jj74e said:

It's thick for a rangefinder style, but it seems to have almost just as many controls as the Sony 5N, which is very little for its body size.

Will it have better video than a hacked GH2? Will it be weather sealed like the EM5? Will it have the lenses of either? Will it have Samsung's combo of second fullest lens system, great UI and competitive sensor? Will it have Sony's combo of class leading sensor, great video and rangefinder body crammed with tech, including best in class EVF? Probably nots to all of those.

Click to expand...

or Nikon's AF performance or Fujifilm's high performance sensor, hyrbrid VF and high grade retro bodies.

jj74e said:

My point is just that, if Canon is coming this late into the game, they better have a damn good reason, that reason being a better product than what they currently seem to have. Given Canon's experience and the timeline of mirrorless products, I don't care that it's a first generation product; Canon should've done better.

Is it a good camera? Yes. Will it sell? Being Canon, yes. Will I care? Will other people already invested in other mirrorless systems care? No. Because it doesn't offer a reason to switch, and switch a lot of people will have to do at this point should they go for it.

obviously this is from the perspective of myself and probably others who feel somewhat invested in another system already. certainly it will appeal to those who have free choice and do not feel bent towards one system or the other already.

Click to expand...

Starshot said:

That's what I don't get
WHAT were people expecting?

How could they have expected something that somehow ended up making them disappointed?

A mirrorless camera with an APC-C sensor? christ that's awesome.

What do you mean without a meaningful dial? Looks like it has one to me, plus thumb controls and a touch screen. What more do you need???

Like I said, if you want all those things, GET A DSLR

Click to expand...

I expected something better than Canon's supposedly inferior competition could come up with. Canon has had three years to figure out how to make amirrorless camera better than the competition and this was the best they could do? A glorified NEX-5 from 2010. Pathetic.

IcyVeins said:

I expected something better than Canon's supposedly inferior competition could come up with. Canon has had three years to figure out how to make amirrorless camera better than the competition and this was the best they could do? A glorified NEX-5 from 2010. Pathetic.

Click to expand...

What has the competition come up with that's better?

I thought "mirrorless" was a term adopted because "EVIL" was not acceptable. Mirrorless only has meaning if it's somehow a comparison to a camera with a mirror -- which is a camera with a viewfinder. Otherwise, isn't it just an interchangeable lens camera? I can't get over thinking it's just a large sensor P&S with lens options.

Not picking on Canon -- I have the same misgivings about the term being used for all the other cameras. It doesn't really tell me what to expect in the feature set.

--
Darrell

No, just interested in a small APS camera with a built in flash...
--
Canon EOS-M... too bad about the flash.

jj74e said:

Will other people already invested in other mirrorless systems care? No. Because it doesn't offer a reason to switch, and switch a lot of people will have to do at this point should they go for it.

Click to expand...

Canon doesn't need a single existing MILC user to switch, and they'll still sell boatloads of these cameras. Why? Because "at this point", the MILC adoption rate is still tiny. I was out shooting at a street fair today, and I saw at least a dozen DSLR users, but I was the only MILC user (using an Oly E-PM1). Look at Amazon's best selling cameras list. Last time I checked, there wasn't a single MILC camera on it. But there were at least a dozen Canon and Nikon DSLRs (in various packages and kits) on the list. The MILC market is still in its infancy, in its very early days. The adoption rate of these cameras is still very, very weak. So, no, Canon doesn't need to "switch a lot of people" from other mirrorless systems. There's still a massive untapped market of consumers out there who have yet to learn about mirrorless interchangeble lens camera systems. Heck, even if they just get a small fraction of their existing DSLR usership to one of these cameras, Canon will sell plenty of their mirrorless cameras!

Chris Dodkin said:

Fuji X-Pro1 set the bar, and this looks way way under that bar.

Very disappointing - a real lack of innovation from Canon

Basically rolling an existing sensor into a consumer point and shoot shell to fill a gap.

No optical viewfinder, no manual controls, no sensor improvements, no EVF, no improvement on low light performance etc etc.

Sure, they'll do a beter model in the future - but right now they've been caught flat footed and only have this to show.

Too much of an installed base of EF lenses and DSLRs to protect me thinks...

--
http://www.dodkin.com
[email protected]
Mac Pro/MacBook Pro/iPods/iPhones/iPad

Click to expand...

I don't think is intended to beat the X-Pro-1 (or Sony Nex-7) on features ..... though Canon will no doubt have a future model to attempt to do this. This is more of a Sony Nex-5N competitor.

I expect the same sensor as the 650D - OK but nothing great. I think all Canon cameras are awaiting the availability of a new, better sensor.

I'm glad they're getting a pancake prime out to start, unlike Sony who are hampered by a lack of small lenses (their mirrorless produce excellent quality images, but the whole package isn't quite there)

locke42 said:

IcyVeins said:

I expected something better than Canon's supposedly inferior competition could come up with. Canon has had three years to figure out how to make amirrorless camera better than the competition and this was the best they could do? A glorified NEX-5 from 2010. Pathetic.

Click to expand...

What has the competition come up with that's better?

Click to expand...

I didn't say the competition was better. Try reading comprehension next time.

But to answer your question, this camera is about the same as a NEX-5, and the NEX-5N is clearly better than the NEX-5, so...

The X-Pro1 is a chunky beast, and is way too expensive. I think most people are ignoring the Fuji X-Pro1 "bar". The Canon should easily outsell the X-Pro1 by a large margin.
'

Chris Dodkin said:

Fuji X-Pro1 set the bar, and this looks way way under that bar.

Very disappointing - a real lack of innovation from Canon

Basically rolling an existing sensor into a consumer point and shoot shell to fill a gap.

No optical viewfinder, no manual controls, no sensor improvements, no EVF, no improvement on low light performance etc etc.

Sure, they'll do a beter model in the future - but right now they've been caught flat footed and only have this to show.

Too much of an installed base of EF lenses and DSLRs to protect me thinks...

--
http://www.dodkin.com
[email protected]
Mac Pro/MacBook Pro/iPods/iPhones/iPad

Click to expand...

Canon is the second Leica

IcyVeins said:

I didn't say the competition was better. Try reading comprehension next time.

Click to expand...

And I didn't say you said the competition was better. What I did was, I asked, "What has the competition come up with that's better?" Because if Canon releases something which is on par with the competition, then that's not something to criticize. You're making a neutral quality (competing equally with other manufacturers) into a negative.

Also, you may not have said the competition was better, but by saying that the EOS M is no better than the 2-year-old NEX-5, you sure as hell implied it.

IcyVeins said:

But to answer your question, this camera is about the same as a NEX-5, and the NEX-5N is clearly better than the NEX-5, so...

Click to expand...

How is this about the same as the NEX-5?

NEX-5

• 14MP
• No touchscreen
• 1080i video
• 200-12,800 ISO
• No SLR lens support

NEX-5N

• 16MP
• Touchscreen
• 1080p video
• 200-25,600 ISO
• SLR lens adapter

Canon EOS M (rumored)

• 18MP
• Touchscreen
• 1080p video
• 100-25,600 ISO
• SLR lens adapter

Sure seems to be a lot closer to the NEX-5N to me, with 25,600 max ISO, touchscreen interface, higher MP, 1080p video recording, and an SLR lens adapter.

T3 said:

Why? Because "at this point", the MILC adoption rate is still tiny. I was out shooting at a street fair today, and I saw at least a dozen DSLR users, but I was the only MILC user (using an Oly E-PM1). Look at Amazon's best selling cameras list. Last time I checked, there wasn't a single MILC camera on it.

Click to expand...

That's only in the US, and US does not represent the world.

In Japan, the mirrorless market share is over 45%, and it is poised to overtake the traditional DSLRs very soon. And Japan is one of the most valued market for Japanese camera manufacturers as it is their home market. In the month of June, 14 out of the top 30 cameras in BCNRanking monthly sales chart in Japan are mirrorless cameras. The same high penetration rate is seen in other Asian countries such as Korea, Taiwan and Hong Kong.

In UK, it's about 25%. In US, it is between 5-10% (and it just shows that the Amazon list really is not representative at all even for the US market).

Overall globally, the mirrorless market share was 23% between Jan-May 2012.

So I would not call the adoption rate tiny by any stretch of imagination.

nosnoop said:

T3 said:

Why? Because "at this point", the MILC adoption rate is still tiny. I was out shooting at a street fair today, and I saw at least a dozen DSLR users, but I was the only MILC user (using an Oly E-PM1). Look at Amazon's best selling cameras list. Last time I checked, there wasn't a single MILC camera on it.

Click to expand...

That's only in the US, and US does not represent the world.

In Japan, the mirrorless market share is over 45%, and it is poised to overtake the traditional DSLRs very soon. And Japan is one of the most valued market for Japanese camera manufacturers as it is their home market. In the month of June, 14 out of the top 30 cameras in BCNRanking monthly sales chart in Japan are mirrorless cameras. The same high penetration rate is seen in other Asian countries such as Korea, Taiwan and Hong Kong.

In UK, it's about 25%. In US, it is between 5-10% (and it just shows that the Amazon list really is not representative at all even for the US market).

Overall globally, the mirrorless market share was 23% between Jan-May 2012.

So I would not call the adoption rate tiny by any stretch of imagination.

Click to expand...

What do total sales (in numbers, not percentages) look like?

The US on its own is probably as big of a market as all of the other major markets combined.

onlooker said:

(nt)

Click to expand...

The subject line is for the subject, not a reply

jj74e said:

I am disappointed by the Canon mirrorless, and here's why.

But will it offer something compelling, something revolutionary that other mirrorless companies don't offer right now?

Click to expand...

Does Canon DSLRs and their compact P&S offer something "compelling", something "revolutionary" that other DSLR and P&S companies don't offer right now?

If not, why do you have such expectation for their mirrorless offering?

jj74e said:

Will it have better video than a hacked GH2? Will it be weather sealed like the EM5? Will it have the lenses of either?....

Click to expand...

First, it is their entry level camera, why would you compare it with GH2 and EM5? Similarly, you should not compare it with NEX-7. And obviously the lens selection would be minimal on the launch of a new mount. It takes time to build up a system, even for the might of Canon and Nikon.

jj74e said:

My point is just that, if Canon is coming this late into the game, they better have a damn good reason,.....
Will it sell? Being Canon, yes.

Click to expand...

You just contradicted yourself there. Since they are likely to have a sales home run on their hands, wouldn't this be considered anything but a big success?

locke42 said:

What do total sales (in numbers, not percentages) look like?

Click to expand...

For worldwide camera sales forecast for the year 2012 by IDC, DSLR is projected to sell 16.76 million units (+18%); mirrorless is predicted to sell 6.43 million units (+60%). So mirrorless is projected to have 28% worldwide sales in 2012 by IDC. Not sure if IDC included the EOS M when they made this projection .

locke42 said:

The US on its own is probably as big of a market as all of the other major markets combined.

Click to expand...

Not quite. US, EU and Asia-Pacific are the three dominant markets for camera, with markets like Russia, India and China climbing rapidly in their world market share.

Starshot said:

To people who are disappointed by Canon's mirrorless camera that hasn't even been announced yet: It sounds like you may be interested in a DSLR.

Click to expand...

What disappoints me is that they didn't even try to make the kit zoom or pancake primes retract inside the body when not in use. Frankly, that's a deal killer for every single mirrorless design.

--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)

Starshot said:

onlooker said:

(nt)

Click to expand...

The subject line is for the subject, not a reply

Click to expand...

Thanks for that insight. It was a subject. No further commentary was necessary.