R
rrccad
Guest
lol.
add to that:
139.5 (W) x 81.8 (H) x 42.6 (D) mm and 400g without battery.
versus a rumoured:
108.6mm x 66.5mm x 32.3mm and 262g ..
slightly different design criteria I imagine?
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People who are disappointed by Canon's mirrorless...
- Thread starter Starshot
- Start date
add to that:
139.5 (W) x 81.8 (H) x 42.6 (D) mm and 400g without battery.
versus a rumoured:
108.6mm x 66.5mm x 32.3mm and 262g ..
slightly different design criteria I imagine?
the mono eye
Well-known member
I would really interested to see the high end range of the EOS-M series to release.
Judging from the rumor spec of EOS-M, it is indeed very interesting.
We shall see the selling price before we judge on the lack of VF, Flash and etc.
Judging from the rumor spec of EOS-M, it is indeed very interesting.
We shall see the selling price before we judge on the lack of VF, Flash and etc.
Draek
Senior Member
The fact that they're compact doesn't mean they're a P&S, specially the Fuji X100 which seems downright hostile to being used as a "happy snappy" rich man's toy instead of a photographer's tool. Rather, its closest analogues would be the newer Panasonic GF series and of course the Nikon 1 system, which aren't exactly this forum's darlings.
Well, that's all assuming things really are as bad as people fear, but given that Canon's own S-series is fairly enthusiast-friendly in spite of its relative lack of external controls, I think the EOS M will do just fine.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/Draek
locke42
Well-known member
What precisely separates a "P&S" from a "compact"? And what is it about the rumored EOS M that makes it a P&S vs a compact?
onlooker
Senior Member
(nt)
Draek
Senior Member
A P&S is a camera designed to be used in a "point & shoot" manner, from its specifications to its ergonomics and accessories available. A sort of "Litmus Test" would be to count how much time it takes you to go from, say, Shutter Priority, 1/400, JPEG Large to Aperture Priority, f/4, RAW. In a camera like the Samsung EX1 only the JPEG-> RAW change would take longer than a second, and that's more due to a flaw on the camera's design than an intentional choice by Samsung. On a P&S camera like the Nikon 1, however... ugh.
Its alleged burying of enthusiast-oriented settings deep in the camera's menu system. Alleged, because I don't think there's enough info to judge yet and, while it's true it does have a surprising lack of external controls, so did the S-series and Canon still made it work regardless.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/Draek
locke42
Well-known member
"Deep"?
I'm working off the same information as you, but moving settings to the touch-sensitive Q-screen doesn't strike me as a "deep burial." If anything, the apparent grouping of "Automatic" modes and "Camera" (which I assume are PASM) modes into separate dial stops shows a purposeful design intent towards making it easy to use the EOS M for both purposes.
Instead of rotating a dial to switch between Av and Tv, now you just tap the screen twice: once to open up the mode menu, and again to select the mode.
Having a half-dozen option-laden dials is not the only method to achieve customizability, and it's not even the fastest method. The main reason SLRs use option dials is to let you keep the viewfinder up at your eye, where you can view all of the settings changes you're making as you're making them, but those dials become more cumbersome than useful in a camera with no viewfinder because of the way your grip changes. A touchscreen with all of the options on it gives the same level of customizability, speed, and feedback as option dials do. An example: try using DSLR Controller for Android. I can change my exposure settings faster with that than I can with my 60D's dials.
Sean Nelson
Forum Pro
It would have been nice to see a more enthusiast-oriented camera, but no doubt that will come.
The biggest disappointment for me is that the images of the standard zoom lens seem to suggest that it's a similar size to the Sony NEX equivalent. This means that Canon may be making the same mistake as Sony - a wonderfully compact camera saddled with an oversized lens.
Panasonic has shown that a standard kit zoom can be made collapsible so as to minimize carrying bulk. Yes, an APS-sized lens would be larger, but it should be possible to at least cut the length of the stowed lens in half as Panasonic has done.
IMHO, you're defeating the purpose of such a compact body if you don't follow through to the lenses. Of course not all lenses can be compact, but for me the beauty of a mirrorless system is the ability to have both a "take-anywhere" package while at the same time allowing you the flexibility of using more specialized lenses and bodies.
The biggest disappointment for me is that the images of the standard zoom lens seem to suggest that it's a similar size to the Sony NEX equivalent. This means that Canon may be making the same mistake as Sony - a wonderfully compact camera saddled with an oversized lens.
Panasonic has shown that a standard kit zoom can be made collapsible so as to minimize carrying bulk. Yes, an APS-sized lens would be larger, but it should be possible to at least cut the length of the stowed lens in half as Panasonic has done.
IMHO, you're defeating the purpose of such a compact body if you don't follow through to the lenses. Of course not all lenses can be compact, but for me the beauty of a mirrorless system is the ability to have both a "take-anywhere" package while at the same time allowing you the flexibility of using more specialized lenses and bodies.
locke42
Well-known member
The upside is that unlike Sony, Canon is (apparently) releasing a very useful pancake prime in a focal length that photographers love. If I were Fuji, I'd be very worried about the EOS M + 22mm f/2 taking marketshare from the X100, because the EOS M is likely to be priced at half the sticker of the X100, and I doubt very many people will consider the X100's rangefinder-style VF to be worth the $600 premium.
(Note: I'm assuming the EOS M will be priced competitively with the NEX-5N, which it most closely resembles in specs.)
R
rrccad
Guest
so no menu previews .. no showing of detail on the back screen .. and you can come up with the theory that it buries things deep in the menu?
the 650D q menu looks quite snappy actually.
Neil Schofield
Leading Member
I won't be if it will take a remote, autofocus with the EF lens adapter, and has in body IS
It will then go very nicely on the end of my siggy 300-800mm zoom
Anybody with a 400mm L 5.6 want IS in a body, this could be right up your street
It will then go very nicely on the end of my siggy 300-800mm zoom
Anybody with a 400mm L 5.6 want IS in a body, this could be right up your street
I already have a DSLR, the Canon Rebel, with an extra Canon 75-300 zoom lens. Works wonderfullly, but not what I would want to lug all over Italy, for example. The Canon SX-40 is much better suited weight-wise, and can shoot over twice as far zoom-wise as well, but it needs a shutter release you can screw a cable in. When you are at 35X (800 MM) and push the shutter release currently on it, the camera moves! I tried it with a monopod, and had the same problem. A tripod might be better, but again, not something I want to carry with me all over Italy. Canon needs to put a better shutter release on the camera if they want better reviews of it.
The other problem I had was getting a haze filter for the SX-40 as well, as what appears to be a lens with srew-type threads in it, isn't! Those are just to hold the lens cap on, and won't take a filter. You must buy the Canon lens adapter, which is larger, and a larger haze filter as well! And if you put a sunshade on that, you end up with a camera which looks like it has a huge mushroom on the front of it. Quite humorous to look at really! I decided to pass on that setup, which cost another $70 total! They need to put a real filter thread on that lens. So these are my two gripes about an otherwise good camera that keep it from being rated "great." Any other new owners have the same perceptions, or some other solutions? I welcome your input.
The other problem I had was getting a haze filter for the SX-40 as well, as what appears to be a lens with srew-type threads in it, isn't! Those are just to hold the lens cap on, and won't take a filter. You must buy the Canon lens adapter, which is larger, and a larger haze filter as well! And if you put a sunshade on that, you end up with a camera which looks like it has a huge mushroom on the front of it. Quite humorous to look at really! I decided to pass on that setup, which cost another $70 total! They need to put a real filter thread on that lens. So these are my two gripes about an otherwise good camera that keep it from being rated "great." Any other new owners have the same perceptions, or some other solutions? I welcome your input.
J
Jon Ragnarsson
Guest
..I'm excited. Now, the first camera doesn't sound much, but I think Canon does right by starting with a low end camera, and the specs looks good.
I'm more curious about what lenses Canon will release, so far we have only seen 'leaks' of a 22mm/2 and bulky, slow 18-55mm kit lens.
Will Canon play it safe and start with slow and cheap consumer zooms, or will they mix in some more interesting lenses for more serious enthusists?
J.
--
http://jonr.light.is
I'm more curious about what lenses Canon will release, so far we have only seen 'leaks' of a 22mm/2 and bulky, slow 18-55mm kit lens.
Will Canon play it safe and start with slow and cheap consumer zooms, or will they mix in some more interesting lenses for more serious enthusists?
J.
--
http://jonr.light.is
NowHearThis
Veteran Member
I hope more people read what you wrote. I'm sick of people whinning before we even see 1 photo taken with it. I'll bet the IQ is impressive and that the price is reasonable. Looking forward to the official announcement soon.
NHT
while ( ! ( succeed = try() ) );
--I agree with everything posted here so far.
And about all the whiners here: People these days want a four course meal for the price of a cup of coffee. It seems to be human nature to want more than just good value and just because a manufacturer doesn't offer you an OVF or a Flip-LCD or some other accessory, it doesn't mean the product itself is worthless... and yet that's the way people seem to act these days.
Go buy another brand if you don't like what's on offer. But don't tell me that brand-X has mastered the lens, the processor and ergonomics because very few have done do. I sure don't care if Canon drops the ball (again) but you just know they're going to be conservative with a camera like this. They actually have a long history of crippling new models just to preserve the high profit margin in other lines like lenses or DSLRs.
I was going to buy one of these mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras as long as I can stick a Canon EF f/1.2L USM lens on it. I just want to do it and see what sort of results I can get from it. When I picked up my G1X yesterday to bring it out with me I chuckled to myself: " LOL! This is probably the same size as the smallest configuration of the EOS-M. "
If the announcement reveals more appealing information, I'll consider getting one of these because I think it makes a great backup to a regular sized DSLR.
Personally, I think there's going to be more to this camera that just a few leaked pictures. Let's see what the announce in the next day or so. I think it's going to be interesting... and there will HAVE to be a new forum for it.
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Regards,
Marco Nero.
http://www.pbase.com/nero_design
NHT
while ( ! ( succeed = try() ) );
G
Greynerd
Guest
Most people buy the smaller and cheaper lensmate adapter for the UV filter. Mine is permanently left on to protect the lens. I did buy the Canon adapter which I just use for a linear polarising filter. It is best to have an adapter for each filter as you can switch them much faster than having to screw them in which makes the system better than having a lens thread.
That's to be expected for their first standard zoom.
They want to keep the bundled kit price low to be competitive. Collapsible design probably would come later. They would watch the sale of this EOS M camera and the soon to be released Sony NEX collapsible zoom.
R
rrccad
Guest
have to also realize that canon has a ton of DO patents .. making smaller FF or APS-C lenses may be quite possible if they start including DO elements.
going by their DO patents .. they've come a long way in R&D since the 70-300 DO
tocar
Senior Member
Canon will release a basic camera to probably test the water and bring up more features later on. With an APS-C sensor it'll be a great mirror-less and with an EF adapter it'll be even more functional. I just hope the sensor will be more sensitve in low light/contrast situations.
tocar
Senior Member
I love my SX40HS and I have only two major concerns, the sensor not being sensitive in low light/contrast situations and the electronic manual focus sucks.
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