D800 with 24mm PC-E

Nice post. Very interesting about maxing LV focus sharpening. I want this lens and your info is very helpful.
 
Good stuff. We all know Nikon just won't produce a real good flat field planar type wide. Too busy with their "f1.4 bokeh busters" WAs.
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Sold the (old) half-frame from Thailand. Bought a 700 under my own personal stimulus
plan.
 
I've just published a field usage description and assessment of this combo on my blog if anyone is interested. For potential Medium Format switchers, the performance of this setup is a potential deal maker or breaker... the results are interesting.
Thanks for writing this up. I've had real troubles with this lens. When everything is just right, the results can be excellent, but even a simple scene can give confounding results in terms of what is in focus. I've sent the lens to Nikon service more than once and it comes back "within specs." I've even shot the identical scene with my 14-24 and the results are much sharper. Your post is the only one I've read that seems to confirm what I'm seeing. I'm eager to hear if others have the same problem or if mine is a lemon.

Don
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http://www.dvd5.zenfolio.com
 
I've just published a field usage description and assessment of this combo on my blog if anyone is interested. For potential Medium Format switchers, the performance of this setup is a potential deal maker or breaker... the results are interesting.
...
Interesting read. I've used all three PC-Es, and the 24 quite a bit. While I have some qualms about performance -- mostly about limited image circle on a lens designed with movements -- "God being the only one that knows where it's focused" has never been one of them.

Until recently my PC-E experience was exclusively on a D3x which has much more effective LV focus ability. Maybe the flaky LV display on the D800 is adding to the problem?

Thanks for the write-up. -Pat
 
Interesting write-up. It and some other reviews have soured my interest in this lens.

I wish Nikon would revise the PC-E lenses. They need to have independent rotation for shift and tilt, as Canon does. They need to improve the optics of the 24mm PC-E, and they need a wider PC-E.

Before the D800E was announced I was considering a Canon DSLR just for the tilt/shift lenses.

BTW, you say, "...I have realised that despite refraction, the best results are at F11..." I think you mean diffraction rather than refraction .
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Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html
 
I don't agree with your conclusion. Price and performance are all relative and you're comparing to the very top end of the Tilt/Shift market. The 24mm PC-e is absolutely "good enough" for the D800 in my view, and especially for this price point in the market. If you think you need a £5k lens then you also need to spend £20k plus on a MF back because if Nikon launch a £5k Tilt Shift lens then a handful of people will buy it and Nikon won't make any money. I'm very happy with the results I get from it, though I have to admit to loving the 45mm PC-e more.
I've just published a field usage description and assessment of this combo on my blog if anyone is interested. For potential Medium Format switchers, the performance of this setup is a potential deal maker or breaker... the results are interesting.

http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/blog/2012/7/the-24mm-pc-e

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Gallery: http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/
 
Could you elaborate on your remarks abiut the difficulties of focusing please? I find this to be a very easy lens to focus, even with a tilt applied, with the plane of focus rotating around exactly as I would expect.

Your comment about "field effect" also doesn't really gel with my experience of this lens either.

The only problem that I have with this lens is that it does not handle shifts beyond about 5mm very well with rapid onset of blur and masses of CA.

Could you perhaps post some examples of where things didn't go quite as well as hoped?
 
Agreed, I'm not sure where this comment comes from...
Interesting read. I've used all three PC-Es, and the 24 quite a bit. While I have some qualms about performance -- mostly about limited image circle on a lens designed with movements -- "God being the only one that knows where it's focused" has never been one of them.
 
Either a squiffy lens or a misunderstanding of how the plane of focus behaves with some tilt applied would be my best guess. Hopefully, the OP can show some examples.
Interesting read. I've used all three PC-Es, and the 24 quite a bit. While I have some qualms about performance -- mostly about limited image circle on a lens designed with movements -- "God being the only one that knows where it's focused" has never been one of them.
 
I have used this lens for many years, recently with D3X and the sharpness across the frame is even and fine at f/11. The contrast is a bit lower than some other lenses such as the 14-24. All the PC-E Nikkors I find somewhat difficult to focus near infinity; the turn of the manual focus ring is too fast and it can be difficult to see where exactly the focus is on, but I have no significant problems achieving what I'm aiming for (I focus at f/3.5 using live view, then stop down to f/11 for the shot). However, my typical subject is at a closer distance than the building in the photograph in your review.

I think what you describe is to be expected if you try to apply a small format camera to precision technical work. Perhaps try some shots at a closer distance to subject to see if your lens has a problem - if it is just at very long distances then I would say it's just a limitation of the lens.

Haven't yet used my 24 PC-E on the D800.
 
Also, regarding a much more expensive tilt shift lens - this basically would mean almost zero sales to typical small format photographers. I think it makes more sense to use a MF system if you require this kind of precision which is harder to build into a small format camera. You can achieve it easier and the potential resolution is much higher and acceptable sharpness would be achieved with greater consistency. That's why the different formats exist.
 
Interesting read. I've used all three PC-Es, and the 24 quite a bit. While I have some qualms about performance -- mostly about limited image circle on a lens designed with movements -- "God being the only one that knows where it's focused" has never been one of them.
Paraphrased from the linked article (OP).

"Now, and this is the vital bit, in Live View 100% Zoom view, take a series of focus bracketed shots (even though you're at F11) starting with focus on the furthest part of the building away from you and then moving along its length towards you with more shots. Why? Because only God understands where this lens focusses and this is the only way to be reasonably sure of getting the shot. Even so, it's not guaranteed because the field effects are profound and even F11 is not enough to get every subject, however focussed, sharp throughout. But it generally works pretty well, if not quite as well as I'd expect or require. Click here to see a 4000 pixel wide version, equivalent to viewing on-screen at about 50%. But be kind, I processed this in a hurry on a laptop with nothing but Lightroom, in the front seat of my hire car..."

-Pat
 
Hi Russ,

I think we're in violent agreement - for the money it's pretty reasonable if you learn it properly. I was really thinking about the MF switchers, of which I am one.

As a group to generalise horribly, we tended to be running several systems: a MF back with both SLR and technical style bodies, glass for both. Then an SLR so we could shoot in lower light and do tracking focus and use telephotos. Then often an M9 since we all love the CCD/ no AA filter look and we like good glass. Then often a MFT for walk around. That describes so many people I know. But a lot of us have switched or are thinking of it. We'll give up the extra 20 or 40mp in exchange for the great IQ of the D800 but we find the glass confusing because we're kinda used to paying whatever it costs for glass that does the job right.

IMHO the 24 PC-E is good value, useful, fun even - but it doesn't do the job right. By which I mean that it doesn't give predictable, repeatable, non-diffraction limited corner to corner edge to edge sharpness. At this price it would be surprising if it did. But what I am pointing out is that

a) for MF switchers who want to know if it'll 'cut the mustard' to their standards, regardless of price, it won't
b) if someone made a lens that did, I think quite a lot of people would buy it.

There is a problem here. Phase One announced and then retracted their T/S lens for the AF/D and DF bodies. I had an earlier amole as a trialer from Phase and it belonged in Battersea Dogs' Home. I also had the older Hartblei on which it was based and that was fuzzy at the edges bit awesome otherwise. Leica can't get their S version out the door. So it is clear that manufacturers have real technical problems here. BUT (and I've never tried one but people say they're great) Canon have done it.

On my Cambo with Schneider with MF back, I could set aperture at F16 and hyper focal at 5 metres and everything from the grass under the tripod to the moon would be in focus, everywhere. Amazing. Amazingly expensive. And I would pay the same price to be able to do this on the D800 because, having seen what it can do when fronted by a converted Leica 50R Cron, or my Zeiss 100mm F2 Planar, or even the 85mm f1.8G, I want to see that level of performance from a PC lens. ANd as I say, I would pay, through the nose and every other orifice, for the privilege!

EDIT: I forgot to say that MF switchers aren' really doing it for the price: the value of their gear has dropped like the proverbial since the D800 ;-( but many of them like the form factor, convenience, weight, flexibility and system consolidation aspects of the switch...
I don't agree with your conclusion. Price and performance are all relative and you're comparing to the very top end of the Tilt/Shift market. The 24mm PC-e is absolutely "good enough" for the D800 in my view, and especially for this price point in the market. If you think you need a £5k lens then you also need to spend £20k plus on a MF back because if Nikon launch a £5k Tilt Shift lens then a handful of people will buy it and Nikon won't make any money. I'm very happy with the results I get from it, though I have to admit to loving the 45mm PC-e more.
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Gallery: http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/
 
Sure,

I agree, with tilts and swings things are fine (so far for me but I haven't yet used it industrially for those purposes).

Here is an image, which I hope answers lots of questions on this thread. It was taken last week in Helsinki. Focus was on the middle of the triangular bit above the columns.

It's 4000 pixels wide, cropped only slightly and then downsized to represent about a 50% zoom view or a 180dpi print. Look at it carefully and see where it is and where it is not in focus. Utterly bizarre and IMHO totally representative of the unpredictable results I get.

This is my second copy: the first was obviously decentred. I get odd results all the time and I have heard from lots of other people who have the same problem!

http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/s2/v51/p185135344.jpg

shot at F8, handheld at 1/640th.
Could you elaborate on your remarks abiut the difficulties of focusing please? I find this to be a very easy lens to focus, even with a tilt applied, with the plane of focus rotating around exactly as I would expect.

Your comment about "field effect" also doesn't really gel with my experience of this lens either.

The only problem that I have with this lens is that it does not handle shifts beyond about 5mm very well with rapid onset of blur and masses of CA.

Could you perhaps post some examples of where things didn't go quite as well as hoped?
--
Gallery: http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/
 
Respectfully, I've been shooting MF for years with both technical cameras and T/S lenses on SLR bodies and whilst my technique isn't the best, it has served me fairly well! There's always huge room for humility, I'd love to learn that this lens is a humdinger and I'm making a mistake but I don't have high hopes!

BTW so far I'm referring only to shift, not tilt or combined tilt and shift..
Either a squiffy lens or a misunderstanding of how the plane of focus behaves with some tilt applied would be my best guess. Hopefully, the OP can show some examples.
Interesting read. I've used all three PC-Es, and the 24 quite a bit. While I have some qualms about performance -- mostly about limited image circle on a lens designed with movements -- "God being the only one that knows where it's focused" has never been one of them.
--
Gallery: http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/
 
Thanks for that. Oddly, this seems a problem at almost any distance. I shot a looong test series yesterday and was none the wiser, other than that the field effects seem more visible at distance whereas it's hard to get the edges sharp closer up (say 15-25 feet)
I have used this lens for many years, recently with D3X and the sharpness across the frame is even and fine at f/11. The contrast is a bit lower than some other lenses such as the 14-24. All the PC-E Nikkors I find somewhat difficult to focus near infinity; the turn of the manual focus ring is too fast and it can be difficult to see where exactly the focus is on, but I have no significant problems achieving what I'm aiming for (I focus at f/3.5 using live view, then stop down to f/11 for the shot). However, my typical subject is at a closer distance than the building in the photograph in your review.

I think what you describe is to be expected if you try to apply a small format camera to precision technical work. Perhaps try some shots at a closer distance to subject to see if your lens has a problem - if it is just at very long distances then I would say it's just a limitation of the lens.

Haven't yet used my 24 PC-E on the D800.
--
Gallery: http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/
 
But I think the point I am trying to make is that the different formats are collapsing together at the moment and that means someone should make the right glass, at almost any price, because I know loads of people who would pay for it - including me!
Also, regarding a much more expensive tilt shift lens - this basically would mean almost zero sales to typical small format photographers. I think it makes more sense to use a MF system if you require this kind of precision which is harder to build into a small format camera. You can achieve it easier and the potential resolution is much higher and acceptable sharpness would be achieved with greater consistency. That's why the different formats exist.
--
Gallery: http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/
 
Eagled eyed! Thanks for spotting that, I've changed it. A slip of the brain :-)
Interesting write-up. It and some other reviews have soured my interest in this lens.

I wish Nikon would revise the PC-E lenses. They need to have independent rotation for shift and tilt, as Canon does. They need to improve the optics of the 24mm PC-E, and they need a wider PC-E.

Before the D800E was announced I was considering a Canon DSLR just for the tilt/shift lenses.

BTW, you say, "...I have realised that despite refraction, the best results are at F11..." I think you mean diffraction rather than refraction .
--
Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html
--
Gallery: http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/
 
On my Cambo with Schneider with MF back, I could set aperture at F16 and hyper focal at 5 metres and everything from the grass under the tripod to the moon would be in focus, everywhere. Amazing.
...
What do you do when it rains?

When I switched from film to DSLR, my first choice was a CFV-39. I had a lot of Hassy gear and the 39 had just been announced, and the slightly larger sensor was appealing. But the MFDBs with cooling fans and air vents, and then finding that the 38mm Biogon (my favorite Zeiss lens) was not recommended to be used with any DB, turned me off -- well, turned me on to the D3x.

I had nightmarish visions of salty costal rain running down the camera/DB seams, or gritty Death Valley sand blowing into the cooling vents and through the battery compartment. That was enough for me. No MFDBs.

You're right, though -- some gear just doesn't cut it.

;-)

-Pat
 

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