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What do want to have and want to keep in the GH3?

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Jorginho

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I want to keep this geared to IQ and just some features and let's keep it reasonable. IBIS in all likely hood is not going to happen, for instance.

So what should the GH3 look like, what should it do, what should it keep from the Gh2?

Here is what I want/wish highest priority first:

1) AF: make it like Nikon 1 or Canon 650D. concetrate on that. We do not need better CDAF. We need AF that lets us shoot BIF and sports, at least better than currenty. If they would do it, this would be a big pro compared to their main rivals The OM-D and NEX7 in this segment.

2) ISO 50 is needed. We have fast lenses now. At ISO 160 you cannot use them at lowest stop in bright weather. You need to stop down, losing narrow DOF. Or use a ND filter (very nice in front of excellent glass...). Besides: ISO 50 gives cleaner output if done well.

Max ISO: 6400. Stop giving us useless high ISO's, most of all if this is at the expense of lower ISO. ISO12800 is nonsense in my mind on any cam bar FF.

DR: like OM-D or NEX7.

Resolution: 20 MPixel if possible without any significant sacrifice elsewhere.

What to keep (from high to low priority):
  • Swiveling display
  • Multiaspect ratio
  • Formfactor
  • Menu's (I guess users will have had a G-GH prior to this one)
Other things (I don't want to discuss actuallyas they are not still IQ related): weathersealed. Moviemode a la Vitaliy or a bit (a couple of them actually) better, I heard about 2,06 MPixel EVF (okey), 7-9 fps, 5 fps acceptable if this helps hybrid AF, Better battery life/larger battery as an option.

Get rid of: any thought about silly new functions no one needs and concentrate on usefull additions. Panny seems to be good at that :-)
 
for me only four:
  • New sensor with IQ like OMD
  • fast AF for sport and wildlife
  • ISO 50 - 6400
  • high resolution and fast EVF
But I'll wait for the GH5 (still happy with the G3)
 
Yes, moreless my view too of course. But remember that it is geared to movie too, so even though personaly it is not too important for it to be in a class of its own it has to improve their too.
 
--

I've told myself to stop using "equivalent" focal lengths on m43. 25mm is what it is, and what it might be similar to on some other format doesn't matter to me any more. We need to learn what to expect from our current equipment, not keep mapping it to the old. No one refers to their 50mm FF lens as "equivalent to 80mm on MF."
 
I'd like ISO 50 and 25, but no 1 for me is better batteries, and a batt gauge that DOESN'T go 33333333333333333333333333333333333333333 2 1 goodbye

TB
 
Did not see them, sorry. Iprobably drowned in the massive number of Om-D messages (nothing wrong with that btw, I understand it completely).
 
Jorginho said:
I want to keep this geared to IQ and just some features and let's keep it reasonable. IBIS in all likely hood is not going to happen, for instance.

So what should the GH3 look like, what should it do, what should it keep from the Gh2?

Here is what I want/wish highest priority first:

1) AF: make it like Nikon 1 or Canon 650D. concetrate on that. We do not need better CDAF. We need AF that lets us shoot BIF and sports, at least better than currenty. If they would do it, this would be a big pro compared to their main rivals The OM-D and NEX7 in this segment.
Click to expand...
Yes, definately for me
Jorginho said:
2) ISO 50 is needed. We have fast lenses now. At ISO 160 you cannot use them at lowest stop in bright weather. You need to stop down, losing narrow DOF. Or use a ND filter (very nice in front of excellent glass...). Besides: ISO 50 gives cleaner output if done well.
Click to expand...
Absolutely !!
Jorginho said:
Max ISO: 6400. Stop giving us useless high ISO's, most of all if this is at the expense of lower ISO. ISO12800 is nonsense in my mind on any cam bar FF.
Click to expand...
Agree with that, although for me personally, ISO1600 would be a luxury.
Jorginho said:
DR: like OM-D or NEX7.
Click to expand...
Yes, increase in DR always valuable
Jorginho said:
Resolution: 20 MPixel if possible without any significant sacrifice elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Sounds good, although my gh2 has far more than i realistically need.
Jorginho said:
What to keep (from high to low priority):
  • Swiveling display
  • Multiaspect ratio
Click to expand...
definately
Jorginho said:
  • Formfactor
Click to expand...
I probably will differ from most m43 users, as i would prefer a much larger sized body {and heavier}, for handling reasons, although a similar size to the gh2 would be fine.....providing it had a similar accessory grip option to the EM-5
Jorginho said:
  • Menu's (I guess users will have had a G-GH prior to this one)
Other things (I don't want to discuss actuallyas they are not still IQ related): weathersealed. Moviemode a la Vitaliy or a bit (a couple of them actually) better, I heard about 2,06 MPixel EVF (okey), 7-9 fps, 5 fps acceptable if this helps hybrid AF, Better battery life/larger battery as an option.
Click to expand...
weathersealed is not {and never has been} a high priority for me, but if it was included....so much the better

I'm thrilled with the video quality of the gh2, so any incremental improvements would be useful.....especially if a low base iso is incorporated into the gh3.
Jorginho said:
Get rid of: any thought about silly new functions no one needs and concentrate on usefull additions. Panny seems to be good at that :-)
Click to expand...
The gh2 is full of clutter, although my needs are probably less varied than some.

Having said all that, its most likely that my gh2 will be my last m43 camera, although i intend getting plenty of use out of it {mainly wildlife video, and landscape stills}.
 
What I want is simple: camera similar to gh2 with all the whistles of next generation camera AND one (only one) whistle for me: shorter LCD (4:3 would be fine) with freed real estate on the back to be spent for better 4-ways controller, bigger, and with dedicated ring around for EV adjustment.
--
I’m surprised how much Wikipedia contributes to the forum.

 
Jorginho said:
Here is what I want/wish highest priority first:

1) AF: make it like Nikon 1 or Canon 650D. concetrate on that. We do not need better CDAF. We need AF that lets us shoot BIF and sports, at least better than currenty. If they would do it, this would be a big pro compared to their main rivals The OM-D and NEX7 in this segment.
Click to expand...
Speaking as someone who moved from a G1 and GF1 to a GH2, I am more than satisfied with the AF speed in the GH2 and am a little puzzled by this constant desire to see hybrid CDAF/PDAF systems such as that in the Nikon J1. The cardinal virtue of CDAF is its accuracy, and that is something that I suspect none of us would be willing to sacrifice. Panasonic and Olympus led the way when it came to faster sensor readout speeds coupled to more processing horsepower and more rapidly focussing lenses.

The future for CDAF that I would like to see is even faster sensor readout coupled to even more processing power. If this happens then I suspect that the hybrid AF systems will be made redundant. The GH2 was the first step along this road for Panasonic and I expect that we will see further progress with the GH3.

By the time that we see the GH5 we will probably see a global shutter as well, and that is probably the time for me to upgrade from my GH2.
 
On-sensor PDAF would be fantastic, but we're probably not going to get it. Lower ISOs might be nice but given the limits of engineering time, it's not a place for Panasonic to put resources. We're obviously getting weather sealed. Things I'd like to see:

1) AVCHD 2.0 and 1080p60, with more much aggressive stock bitrates. This is the biggest problem with the video aspect of the camera.

2) Better LCD and EVF, for the love of god. Sizing is okay but the quality on both these displays is awful. The EVF has the resolution but the DR and color accuracy are a disaster.

3) Sensor just needs to keep up with the OMD and we're good. I'm getting usable shots off that cam at 12800 for web purposes.

4) Faster burst and a much larger burst buffer. The buffer on the GH2 is kind of depressing.
5) A second control dial would be awfully nice.
 
Thanks voor your thoughts.

Well. I don't see why a hybrid CDAF/PDAF means some sacrfice to CDAF alone..

The problem with CDAF is that it cannot and probably will not (within a year or 2-3)
focus on subjects that move towards or away from you. If my info is correct.

A hybrid system, most of all one that lets you disable one of the tow does provide it and is currently "do-able". So to bridge the time between now and a CDAF that
can do everything PDAF can and more, I think the bybrid system is te way to go.
BigBarney said:
Jorginho said:
Here is what I want/wish highest priority first:

1) AF: make it like Nikon 1 or Canon 650D. concetrate on that. We do not need better CDAF. We need AF that lets us shoot BIF and sports, at least better than currenty. If they would do it, this would be a big pro compared to their main rivals The OM-D and NEX7 in this segment.
Click to expand...
Speaking as someone who moved from a G1 and GF1 to a GH2, I am more than satisfied with the AF speed in the GH2 and am a little puzzled by this constant desire to see hybrid CDAF/PDAF systems such as that in the Nikon J1. The cardinal virtue of CDAF is its accuracy, and that is something that I suspect none of us would be willing to sacrifice. Panasonic and Olympus led the way when it came to faster sensor readout speeds coupled to more processing horsepower and more rapidly focussing lenses.

The future for CDAF that I would like to see is even faster sensor readout coupled to even more processing power. If this happens then I suspect that the hybrid AF systems will be made redundant. The GH2 was the first step along this road for Panasonic and I expect that we will see further progress with the GH3.

By the time that we see the GH5 we will probably see a global shutter as well, and that is probably the time for me to upgrade from my GH2.
Click to expand...
 
Bigger.

Freakin.

Battery.
 
We need an Electronic First Curtain Shutter to reduce the vibration from the shutter for telephoto lenses and telescopes.

1080p @ 60 FPS will happen at 28 mb/sec.

I would love to be able to take stills in the 1080p @ 60 FPS mode as well.

I would like them to allow the bulb "B" mode to go to 4 minutes and 16 seconds like the GF1 for astro photography.

I will probably buy the GH3 only if it comes with the 35-100mm lens. Right now the lenses are more important to me than the camera body. My GH2 is already better than anything else out there for video. It holds its own for stills as well.

--
GH2, GF1, & ZS3 Sample movies
http://www.youtube.com/user/mpgxsvcd#play/uploads

GH2 Setup Walk through
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uROQbbiiO2I

http://vimeo.com/user442745

GH2 Pictures
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4222674355/albums
 
Jorginho said:
I want to keep this geared to IQ and just some features and let's keep it reasonable. IBIS in all likely hood is not going to happen, for instance.

So what should the GH3 look like, what should it do, what should it keep from the Gh2?

Here is what I want/wish highest priority first:

1) AF: make it like Nikon 1 or Canon 650D. concetrate on that. We do not need better CDAF. We need AF that lets us shoot BIF and sports, at least better than currenty. If they would do it, this would be a big pro compared to their main rivals The OM-D and NEX7 in this segment.

2) ISO 50 is needed. We have fast lenses now. At ISO 160 you cannot use them at lowest stop in bright weather. You need to stop down, losing narrow DOF. Or use a ND filter (very nice in front of excellent glass...). Besides: ISO 50 gives cleaner output if done well.

Max ISO: 6400. Stop giving us useless high ISO's, most of all if this is at the expense of lower ISO. ISO12800 is nonsense in my mind on any cam bar FF.

DR: like OM-D or NEX7.

Resolution: 20 MPixel if possible without any significant sacrifice elsewhere.

What to keep (from high to low priority):
  • Swiveling display
  • Multiaspect ratio
  • Formfactor
  • Menu's (I guess users will have had a G-GH prior to this one)
Other things (I don't want to discuss actuallyas they are not still IQ related): weathersealed. Moviemode a la Vitaliy or a bit (a couple of them actually) better, I heard about 2,06 MPixel EVF (okey), 7-9 fps, 5 fps acceptable if this helps hybrid AF, Better battery life/larger battery as an option.

Get rid of: any thought about silly new functions no one needs and concentrate on usefull additions. Panny seems to be good at that :-)
Click to expand...
I agree that I have answered on a couple of similar threads already. However, to get into the meat of it:

1) better cAF (however it is done)

2) I personally think that iso 3200 is useable at the moment, and would love a higher number (6400 or 12800 as doable!). Because I am mostly using longer lenses, 50 or less is no concern of mine.

3) I am fine with the 16 mp resolution and dont know what to do with a higher one!

DO NOT make GH3 smaller than GH2, it would just lead to an in ability to hit the appropriate button! (it would become too small)

Niels
 
BigBarney said:
Jorginho said:
Here is what I want/wish highest priority first:

1) AF: make it like Nikon 1 or Canon 650D. concetrate on that. We do not need better CDAF. We need AF that lets us shoot BIF and sports, at least better than currenty. If they would do it, this would be a big pro compared to their main rivals The OM-D and NEX7 in this segment.
Click to expand...
Speaking as someone who moved from a G1 and GF1 to a GH2, I am more than satisfied with the AF speed in the GH2 and am a little puzzled by this constant desire to see hybrid CDAF/PDAF systems such as that in the Nikon J1. The cardinal virtue of CDAF is its accuracy, and that is something that I suspect none of us would be willing to sacrifice. Panasonic and Olympus led the way when it came to faster sensor readout speeds coupled to more processing horsepower and more rapidly focussing lenses.
Click to expand...
pdaf on chip doesn't exhibit focus errors in the same way that mirrored pdaf does....
 
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