RX100. David Pogue's Review at NYTimes

Dimitri Khoz · Jul 1, 2012

Who knows for sure.

May be you have stoped this clock and put the camera on the fridge to make this shot.

I will wait for the DPReview to post its results.

Btw, why was that picture you posted so unsharp and improperly exposed
even when downsampled 10 times to 1.6 Mp.

Post something of the higher quality,
otherwise we do not see any use of the technology.

ET2 · Jul 1, 2012

Dimitri Khoz said:
Who knows for sure.

May be you have stoped this clock and put the camera on the fridge to make this shot.

You are an idiot .. There are millions of other examples on flicker (search twilight mode or anti-motion blur modes). This is not something new on a Sony camera. It's new to you because you are a newbie on this forum, but it's nothing new that wasn't on previous Sony cameras. Even Canon now copied this feature in T4i ...

All 6 shots are auto aligned so this feature works hand-held (it would be useless on tripod anyway as you can use lower ISOs on tripod). Also, minor movements from the subject don't mean you can't use it. The stacking algorithm is more intelligent than what you think (it compares each color pixel for stacking, and skips the pixels if there is no match/movement).

Dimitri Khoz said:
I will wait for the DPReview to post its results.

Why? DPR already cover this for example in A55 review ...

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonyslta55/13

Dimitri Khoz said:
Btw, why was that picture you posted so unsharp and improperly exposed
even when downsampled 10 times to 1.6 Mp.

It's ISO 6400 in very lowlight ..

ET2 · Jul 1, 2012

ET2 said:
Dimitri Khoz said:

Who knows for sure.

May be you have stoped this clock and put the camera on the fridge to make this shot.

Click to expand...

You are an idiot .. There are millions of other examples on flicker (search twilight mode or anti-motion blur modes).

Here I will help you in how to search flickr

http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=all&q=twilight+mode&m=text

http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=all&q=anti-motion+blur&m=text

just picking one example,

http://www.flickr.com/photos/thanatham/6802516242/

you see her camera is not on tripod ...

Dimitri Khoz · Jul 1, 2012

ET2 said:
It's new to you because you are a newbie on this forum

True, I am new to the Sony forum
because I am Canon user
and happy with the products because of the excellent lens quality.

And I looked through the web-links showing Sony Twillight mode.
Some of the results are impressive,
but noone mentioned wheter shots were done with the tripod or true handheld.

ET2 said:
Even Canon now copied this feature in T4i ...

I think it was Fuji that was first to introduce this feature to the market.

ET2 said:
ET2 said:

Dimitri Khoz wrote:
Btw, why was that picture you posted so unsharp and improperly exposed
even when downsampled 10 times to 1.6 Mp.

Click to expand...

It's ISO 6400 in very lowlight ..

You call ISO6400 f8.0 1/20 sec low light?

It is equal to ISO6400 f2.8 1/160sec!!!.

HEre is real low light 6 times less light that you have
and still sharp and noise free with similer or higher ISOs used.

NEX5 6 shot mode can beat G1X only in your dreams.

ET2 · Jul 1, 2012

Dimitri Khoz said:
I think it was Fuji that was first to introduce this feature to the market.

Post proof for that claim .. Sony p&s cameras had this (and hand-held hdr, sweep panorama) back in 2009

ET2 · Jul 1, 2012

Dimitri Khoz said:
ET2 said:

It's new to you because you are a newbie on this forum

Click to expand...

True, I am new to the Sony forum
because I am Canon user
and happy with the products because of the excellent lens quality.

You aren't really that "happy" because your recent history shows you have been suffering from inferiority complex since RX100 launch ... That's why you are obsessed with RX100

juliusCaesar · Jul 1, 2012

In what ways does the nex-5n outperform the rx100?

Dimitri Khoz · Jul 1, 2012

juliusCaesar said:
In what ways does the nex-5n outperform the rx100?

I would like to know as well,
I have not found any direct tests
except this one for med ISO

Dimitri Khoz · Jul 1, 2012

ET2 said:
Dimitri Khoz said:

I think it was Fuji that was first to introduce this feature to the market.

Click to expand...

Post proof for that claim .. Sony p&s cameras had this (and hand-held hdr, sweep panorama) back in 2009

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2009/7/22/fujifilmf70exr

The Pro Low-light Mode is applied to solving the problems of noisy low light shots. Once switched to Pro Lowlight Mode, the camera will take burst of 4 high sensitivity images using Pixel Fusion Technology* in quick succession. By Multi Frame Technology, 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th images are overlapped to create one image with extremely low noise.

Don_D · Jul 1, 2012

ET2 said:
Dimitri Khoz said:

ET2 said:

It's new to you because you are a newbie on this forum

Click to expand...

True, I am new to the Sony forum
because I am Canon user
and happy with the products because of the excellent lens quality.

Click to expand...

You aren't really that "happy" because your recent history shows you have been suffering from inferiority complex since RX100 launch ... That's why you are obsessed with RX100

I own three Canon cameras right now, but I have owned Fuji, Olympus, Pentax. I'm very interested now in the G1X and the Sony RX100.

Because I may buy an RX100 I am over here on the Sony forum following these discussions, including Dimitri's tests and examples.....I hope that these discussions will stick to the facts and not fall into personal attacks.

--
Don
http://www.pbase.com/dond

snapshot09 · Jul 1, 2012

It's ok, I am sure there will be plenty of converted owners in the coming months

ET2 said:
Dimitri Khoz said:

ET2 said:

It's new to you because you are a newbie on this forum

Click to expand...

True, I am new to the Sony forum
because I am Canon user
and happy with the products because of the excellent lens quality.

Click to expand...

You aren't really that "happy" because your recent history shows you have been suffering from inferiority complex since RX100 launch ... That's why you are obsessed with RX100

ET2 · Jul 1, 2012

Dimitri Khoz said:
ET2 said:

Dimitri Khoz said:

I think it was Fuji that was first to introduce this feature to the market.

Click to expand...

Post proof for that claim .. Sony p&s cameras had this (and hand-held hdr, sweep panorama) back in 2009

Click to expand...

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2009/7/22/fujifilmf70exr

The Pro Low-light Mode is applied to solving the problems of noisy low light shots. Once switched to Pro Lowlight Mode, the camera will take burst of 4 high sensitivity images using Pixel Fusion Technology* in quick succession. By Multi Frame Technology, 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th images are overlapped to create one image with extremely low noise.

HX1 is older than that has all the stacking modes (handheld Twilight, Anti-Motion Blur, Sweep Panorama)

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydschx1

bab4 · Jul 1, 2012

I've had Fuji compacts before...still have one... the pro low light mode sucks and doesn't compare with Sony's implementation. Dimitri stop talking about stuff you know nothing about.

TrojMacReady · Jul 1, 2012

Dimitri Khoz said:
TrojMacReady said:

Dimitri Khoz said:

shlam said:

I know plenty of folks who will never get a smart phone and pay the monthly fees, let alone high-end smartphones like the 808.

Click to expand...

I also know many people who are short of money.
At least good cell phone is a necesity in todays age.
Those who can not afford a cell phone
obviously will not have $650 for a super camera.
They may buy something like this instead

TrojMacReady said:

Dimitri Khoz said:

For snapshots, Nokia 808 or even iPhone will fit the bill.
Why to carry cell + camera taking space in both pockets
when IQ will be pretty similar anyway.

Click to expand...

By the above logic, even your G1X is pretty similar in output compared to an iPhone.

Click to expand...

I do not see the logic you used.

Click to expand...

You made a claim about image quality, I used that IQ logic on the G1X. Size wasn't part of that equation.

Click to expand...

Then, you failed.

No I didn't. I was talking about image quality first, as were you.

Dimitri Khoz said:
If size was not a part of equation,
G1X IQ will NOT be similar to cell phones

Make up your mind then, because if it isn't, the RX100 isn't similar to cellphones either, since the difference between the RX100 and G1X, taking the diference in lensspeed into account (meaning, you need a higher ISO on the Canon to get the same amount of light), is quite similar too atleast up to 50mm.

Based on the RAW files I've seen (DCRAW).

Dimitri Khoz said:
Dimitri Khoz said:

Dimitri Khoz said:

Now back to the IQ.

G1X IQ is comparable to DSLRs and not cell phones for many reasons.

Click to expand...

Oh, in that case, so is the RX100 as the difference in DOF and noise (taking the lens into the equation) between the G1X and RX100 is very close up to about 50mm (a hair better noise performance and shallower DOF at the widest angle for the RX100), with only a small benefit for the G1X above that.

Click to expand...

You did not get it all completely right, Troj.

RX100 lens is 2/3 to 1/3 stop faster than one on G1X at 35+ mm

29mm 2.8 vs 2.0 (1 stop diff)

You missed the widest end, a stop and a third.

Dimitri Khoz said:
50mm 4.5 vs 3.5 (2/3 stop)

At 50mm the RX100 still sits at F3.2 (goes to F3.5 at 53 mm), which means a full stop still. Which largely/fully compensates the sensor size difference, especially when looking at a 3:2 ratio.

And that exactly matches my quote above.

Dimitri Khoz said:
G1X lens will have better background blur than one in RX100 at 29+ mm

I said widest .

Dimitri Khoz said:
Canon's sensor has 2.3 times more area and 1.4 times more pixels

which results in 3.2 times less light per pixel which corresponds to 5/3 light stop difference in noise.

Wrong. Pixel density doesn't have much to do with noise performance per equal output size. Sensor size is key, because in practise more pixels make up for the deeper wells of larger pixels. Ignoring aspect ratio's, you're looking at a difference in size of a factor 2.25, which would result in 1.17 stops or 1 and a 6th stop.
Based on the 3:2 ratio, its exactly a factor 2, thus 1 stop.

Dimitri Khoz · Jul 1, 2012

TrojMacReady said:
taking the diference in lensspeed into account (meaning, you need a higher ISO on the Canon to get the same amount of light), is quite similar too atleast up to 50mm.

Lens speed difference is 2/3 to none across the range.
f4.5-f9.0 will be used 90% of the time
as was confirmed by sample pictures

http://www.slrclub.com/bbs/vx2.php?id=slr_review&page=1&divpage=1&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=282

f1.8-2.4 will be used mostly for wideangle portraits only

because of very shallow DoFwhich is not suitable for urban, landscape, and social photography.

While zoomed, difference will be may be 1/3 stop and again only in portrait conditions with shallow DoF.

TrojMacReady said:
At 50mm the RX100 still sits at F3.2 (goes to F3.5 at 53 mm), which means a full stop still. Which largely/fully compensates the sensor size difference, especially when looking at a 3:2 ratio.

RX100 goes to 3.5 at 50mm.

The chart on the Korean website is incomplete.
Example, if you will believe that RX100 will have f1.8 at 28-36mm
then you are wrong.
f1.8 is for 28 mm only. At 29mm it is f2.0.

I will not argue, but we will need to wait for the camera to get into our hands for testing first.

AngryCorgi · Jul 1, 2012

Dimitri Khoz said:
TrojMacReady said:

taking the diference in lensspeed into account (meaning, you need a higher ISO on the Canon to get the same amount of light), is quite similar too atleast up to 50mm.

Click to expand...

Lens speed difference is 2/3 to none across the range.
f4.5-f9.0 will be used 90% of the time
as was confirmed by sample pictures

http://www.slrclub.com/bbs/vx2.php?id=slr_review&page=1&divpage=1&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=282

f1.8-2.4 will be used mostly for wideangle portraits only

because of very shallow DoFwhich is not suitable for urban, landscape, and social photography.

While zoomed, difference will be may be 1/3 stop and again only in portrait conditions with shallow DoF.

Dimitri Khoz said:

At 50mm the RX100 still sits at F3.2 (goes to F3.5 at 53 mm), which means a full stop still. Which largely/fully compensates the sensor size difference, especially when looking at a 3:2 ratio.

Click to expand...

RX100 goes to 3.5 at 50mm.

The chart on the Korean website is incomplete.

You are so full of crap. You just can't stop making crap up, huh? Even DPreview states 53mm is the FL where it changes to f/3.5.

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/sony-dsc-rx100/3

I guess we can add this to the long list of confirmed false "truths" from the great Dumbitri.

--
-AC-

AngryCorgi · Jul 1, 2012

Sad...

snapshot09 · Jul 2, 2012

Thanks for clarifying.

AngryCorgi said:
Dimitri Khoz said:

TrojMacReady said:

taking the diference in lensspeed into account (meaning, you need a higher ISO on the Canon to get the same amount of light), is quite similar too atleast up to 50mm.

Click to expand...

Lens speed difference is 2/3 to none across the range.
f4.5-f9.0 will be used 90% of the time
as was confirmed by sample pictures

http://www.slrclub.com/bbs/vx2.php?id=slr_review&page=1&divpage=1&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=282

f1.8-2.4 will be used mostly for wideangle portraits only

because of very shallow DoFwhich is not suitable for urban, landscape, and social photography.

While zoomed, difference will be may be 1/3 stop and again only in portrait conditions with shallow DoF.

AngryCorgi said:

At 50mm the RX100 still sits at F3.2 (goes to F3.5 at 53 mm), which means a full stop still. Which largely/fully compensates the sensor size difference, especially when looking at a 3:2 ratio.

Click to expand...

RX100 goes to 3.5 at 50mm.

The chart on the Korean website is incomplete.

Click to expand...

You are so full of crap. You just can't stop making crap up, huh? Even DPreview states 53mm is the FL where it changes to f/3.5.

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/sony-dsc-rx100/3

I guess we can add this to the long list of confirmed false "truths" from the great Dumbitri.

--
-AC-

Rehabdoc · Jul 2, 2012

Already #1 at amazon for cameras right now... To all the naysayers, guess at $650 its priced correctly after all.

It's put itself in the perfect niche for trading off image quality for form factor.

Of course this niche will fill up fast with competitors, but for now Sony has the market all too itself.

And Nikon 1 is gonna take a big cut.

TrojMacReady · Jul 2, 2012

Dimitri Khoz said:
TrojMacReady said:

taking the diference in lensspeed into account (meaning, you need a higher ISO on the Canon to get the same amount of light), is quite similar too atleast up to 50mm.

Click to expand...

Lens speed difference is 2/3 to none across the range.

Again changing your argument when you failed the first time. The lensspeed difference is exactly as quoted in my original post. A stop and a third at the widest FL, to about a stop at 50mm.

Dimitri Khoz said:
f4.5-f9.0 will be used 90% of the time

Nonsense. You just made that up based on someone's shooting habits.

Dimitri Khoz said:
f1.8-2.4 will be used mostly for wideangle portraits only

More nonsense. I've seen nice night cityscapes and regular indoor shots at F1.8 from the RX100 already.

Dimitri Khoz said:
because of very shallow DoFwhich is not suitable for urban, landscape, and social photography.

At wide angle the DOF at F1.8 isn't that shallow unless you take close up (portraits or in general).

At 3 meters distance, the DOF @f1.8 is already a meter and a half. Easily enough for a whole group shot.

Dimitri Khoz said:
Dimitri Khoz said:

At 50mm the RX100 still sits at F3.2 ( goes to F3.5 at 53 mm ), which means a full stop still. Which largely/fully compensates the sensor size difference, especially when looking at a 3:2 ratio.

Click to expand...

RX100 goes to 3.5 at 50mm.

Stop making things up.

Dimitri Khoz said:
The chart on the Korean website is incomplete.

And who said I was looking at that chart? What exactly are you looking at though?

Dimitri Khoz said:
I will not argue, but we will need to wait for the camera to get into our hands for testing first.

Should have thought of that before posting nonsense.

RX100. David Pogue's Review at NYTimes

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