Please help me to set G3 for better pics!

Get an external flash if you can. The Canon 420ex is perfect. If
you can't affoard it, try to rent one FOR A WEEK. Many large photo
stores have a rental service. Get it in advance to get used to it.
Use an index card attached to the back to get some light straight
ahead while bouncing off the ceilling. Search this forum on
"bouncing".
The Lumiquest ProMax is only about thirty bucks and handles this in a great way. Relying on the high church ceiling for bounce may be a little iffy, due to the height.
 
Thang

I really appreciate your guide that means so much to me. It is just what I needed to hear.

would you tell me where (store' name) I can rent external flash and all of its equipment. I wish i could live in California, but now i am in a military base (anyone know FtSill, OK) where only for rules and weapon around, and no one here knows about professional photography.

Other questions:

Any setting on external flash? The 420EX can be a replacement for the 550EX in case?

If I set camera in TV mode, the TV values 1/30 or 1/15 will change everytime when we take picture at different places?

Thanks again. Your advice is kindness and good taste.
I have done several weddings before so hopefully my advice will
help. Like almost everyone else has suggested, get an external
flash. I highly recommend the 550EX. The 420EX will NOT be powerful
enough for pictures inside the church. Whatever you do, DON'T
bounce the flash. The ceiling of the church is way too high to have
any affect. Bouncing the flash will only drain your battery.
Speaking of battery, get an external battery pack as well,
something like the Quantum Turbo Z. You can rent all these
equipment for less than $50/day. In California, I can rent a 550EX
for $10/day and the battery pack for another $10. If you don't want
to carry the battery pack around, get some NimH batteries for its
fast recycling time. Make sure you bring several sets.

Next, put your flash on a rotating flash bracket to avoid red eyes
and shadows in vertical shots. Bring plenty of CF cards. I would
get at least 2-3 512mb and a laptop so you can download these
pictures once the card filled up. Bring at least 2 511 batteries
for the camera. Make sure to tell the person who is going to use
this camera to bring a friend along to help him/her with the
downloading. Also tell this person to make sure he/she is fully
familiar with the camera, flash and setup.

In terms of camera, I would set everything in P mode. ISO 50 or 100
NOT higher than this. Set the compression in Super Fine or RAW. I
personally preferred RAW because that gives me the flexibility in
adjusting the level of sharpness, saturation, contrast, WB... later
on. Set the WB to either neutral or sunlight. Yes, trust me on
this. Don't set the WB to Flash setting. Set the FLASH exposure
compensation in the camera to +1/3 or +1/2. I have noticed that the
camera tend to under expose the flash a little bit when you
transfered the file to PC even though the pictures might look fine
on the LCD.

If you have time, you may want to play around with the TV setting.
If your friend has firm hands, set the TV value to 1/30 or as low
as 1/15. This will alllow the camera to capture some ambient light
inside the church. I find these kind of shots to be very nice and
romantic. My clients love them. This way, your subject will be
properly exposed by the flash and the background is lid by the
ambient light. Rent everything if you can to cut down the cost.
Good luck.

Thang.
I just bought a G3 for our wedding comming next week since we
aren't not affordable for a professional photographs; but i have
been frustrated after practicing some pics in church where our
wedding will be.
Please point me out what wrong these pics:

http://www.pbase.com/image/10857101

http://www.pbase.com/image/10857115

They are taken in P mode
IS0 100
Fine compression
Interal Flash enable
and all other settings are default

Since my friend, who will take picture, and I are completely
newbies in digital camera so i call out your help.

Please help me reset all functions. I greatly appreciate all your
proposal for an appropriate setting of my G3.

Thanks in advance.
--
 
I do think that your advice is great and will tell my fiancée about it. I am sure she will feel better to know it since she is panic when i start this thread.

Tim
Bolin,
You sound like you know what you want. If you are happy with the
calibre of photos that your friends take normally, you should be
OK. I agree with the external flash. The tripod will be needed for
those natural light shots outside after the ceremony, but you
probably won't be allowed to use it in the church. If you are going
to appoint your friend using your G3 to be the "official wedding
photographer" here are some tips:
1. Have him talk to the minister a couple of days before the
ceremony to find out any restrictions. Most ministers (priests etc)
consider the wedding to be a religious ceremony and not a photo op.
Most will restrict time and place of photos. Make sure you know the
rules ahead of time.
2. Scout the church where the ceremony will take place, after
talking to the minister, and make a shooting plan. Plan which shots
you will take and when and where.
3. Scout the area of the reception and/or an outside area near the
church where you can assemble the wedding party for formal shots.
Scout this area at the same time of day that the wedding will take
place so you know where the shadows will be. Plan some detailed
shots with the various available backgrounds in mind.
4. Consider pictures before the ceremony where the bride is getting
ready (nobody cares about the groom at this point) classics are:
Mother of the Bride (MOB) pinning corsage on bride; little sister
giving bride a hug; bride putting on garter; bride brushing lint
off fathers suit. I once shot a western wedding where the grooms
party all wore comboy hats; one of the favorite shots was one of
the bride lacing on her white cowboy boots which she wore with her
formal white wedding gown.
5. After the ceremony there are standard must haves: Bride and her
family; groom and his family; grooms party; brides party; bride and
groom and their parents; the whole wedding party; and of course the
bride and groom - formal and casual.
6. The better the planning, the better the shoot will go. The
locations of all pictures should be scouted at the time of day they
will be used. A good rehearsal for the photographer is the wedding
rehearsal. With pros this is often the first time they see the
church and the time they make contact with the minister and get the
rules straight. As rehearsals seldom take place at the same time of
day as the wedding, this is no time to be checking the other photo
locations.
7. If your photographer is not a strong personality with the gift
of getting people to pay attention and go where he wants, appoint
someone who is to help set up the after ceremony shots. Otherwise
you will have a bunch of people milling about and eventually
getting annoyed at all the delays. And make sure everyone knows
that your friend is THE photographer. As you say there will be lots
of people taking pictures - you want the subjects to be looking at
the right photographer at the critical moment.
8. Make sure that your friend understands that you are counting on
him to take pictures. You know that this will probably interfere
with his enjoyment of the wedding, but you'll make it up to him
some other time.
9. Make sure your friend gets in all the practice with the camera
and flash that he can before the big day.

Good luck with the photos and congratulations on your wedding. I
look forward to seeing some of the shots.

'It's all about light'
Don McVee
http://www.pbase.com/mcveed/gallery01
 
I am looking for them now. Where (web sites) do you susgest me to buy them.

Thanks again.
Yeah, as far as flash goes, it would help a lot if you got a 420EX
(about $180) with a LumiQuest ProMax reflector (about $30). Won't
help much for far away shots, but closer up, things should look
great.
 
Set the WB to either neutral or sunlight. Yes, trust me on
this. Don't set the WB to Flash setting. Set the FLASH exposure
compensation in the camera to +1/3 or +1/2. I have noticed that the
camera tend to under expose the flash a little bit when you
transfered the file to PC even though the pictures might look fine
on the LCD.
Thanks, thang! I just learned something new. You're right, flash pictures DO look better with WB set to sunlight instead of flash (although I couldn't find a neutral setting on my G3.) Also, I could only set flash exposure compensation in 1/3 stop increments. Would +1/3 or +2/3 be preferable?

I wonder why the flash white balance setting looks so bad...
 
Bolin,

I haven't bought these myself, so I haven't fully researched pricing yet.

B&H Photo is a good place to start, though.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/

They are very dependable and have the 420EX for $179.95, and the LumiQuest ProMax System for $36.95.

As someone else suggested, the 550EX would be even better since it has more power, but at $329 it's a little expensive.

Here's a little detailed info on the LumiQuest system:

http://www.wrotniak.net/photo/lq/index.html

Maybe visit a local bookstore and look for a good book on wedding photography. It may help you plan for your shots (provided you have enough time.)

Are you sure that a professional would cost "three times as much as a G3"? I believe I've heard of some charging around $500-600.
Thanks again.
Yeah, as far as flash goes, it would help a lot if you got a 420EX
(about $180) with a LumiQuest ProMax reflector (about $30). Won't
help much for far away shots, but closer up, things should look
great.
 
Set the WB to either neutral or sunlight. Yes, trust me on
this. Don't set the WB to Flash setting. Set the FLASH exposure
compensation in the camera to +1/3 or +1/2. I have noticed that the
camera tend to under expose the flash a little bit when you
transfered the file to PC even though the pictures might look fine
on the LCD.
Thanks, thang! I just learned something new. You're right, flash
pictures DO look better with WB set to sunlight instead of flash
(although I couldn't find a neutral setting on my G3.) Also, I
could only set flash exposure compensation in 1/3 stop increments.
Would +1/3 or +2/3 be preferable?

I wonder why the flash white balance setting looks so bad...
Mike, for the Neutral setting, check the manual on page 89. If you don't have it with you, press FUNC and go the the second from the top, under the ISO settings.

I guess the internal flash doesn't have the hue as the 420ex.

I often have to compensate the flash by lowering it by -1/3 or -2/3. But I don't rely on the LCD to judge exposure as it's way too bright. I only trust the histogram.

--
Marc Jutras
G3 + 420ex
http://www.marcjutras.com
 
If I set camera in TV mode, the TV values 1/30 or 1/15 will change
everytime when we take picture at different places?
Your Canon camera and flash use E-TTL (evaluative though the lens) metering to automatically regulate flash output for perfect exposure. Essentially, when you press the shutter button, the flash fires a brief pre-flash, the camera meters the image coming in though the lens using the flash light, and then the camera fires the flash again to take the photo, this time adjusting the flash duration as required. This all happens in a fraction of a second so you may not even notice that the flash fired twice.

By the way, one small drawback to this type of system is that people cometimes come out with their eyes half closed. Pay attention to this so you can retake the shot when required.
 
Mike, for the Neutral setting, check the manual on page 89. If you
don't have it with you, press FUNC and go the the second from the
top, under the ISO settings.
Yes, I was aware of that, but I thought thang was referring to a neutral WB setting, as opposed to a photo effect.
I guess the internal flash doesn't have the hue as the 420ex.
I don't even own an external flash yet. I just did a couple of test shots indoors using the built-in flash and the photos looked better with Sunlight than with Flash white balance.
I often have to compensate the flash by lowering it by -1/3 or
-2/3. But I don't rely on the LCD to judge exposure as it's way
too bright. I only trust the histogram.
Thanks, I'll keep this in mind.
 
Get the settings wrong on this camera, which is easy to do when
under pressure, and you get a whole lot of unsatisfactory pictures.
But when set right it is a first class camera of course.
Not only are there technical issues to consider, but the hardest thing about wedding photography is probably the planning and the timing. I don't think this is something that can be done well instinctively and spontaenously. You are bound to miss important moments and leave out some people. You have to have advanced knowledge of how the wedding will procede, and where you and your subjects will be at different times thoughout the ceremony, as well as afterwards for the posed shots. I sense that this requires a meticulous game plan.
 
There's a LOT of good technical advice here, but little mention of what I think is the main concern. That is the person taking the photos must be "The Wedding Photographer".

Other than a few shots live at the actual wedding ceremony (which may not even be allowed, at least with flash), all the rest of the photos are set up by the Wedding Photographer. You cannot just give someone a camera (even though he has now been trained how to use it) and expect GOOD wedding photos. Your designated person cannot just walk around and look for "photo-ops" and shoot them (although some of these would be OK).

If you think about it, the Wedding Photographer is really the choreagrapher of the entire event. He/she must not only have professional equipment (medium format film or professional DSLR), know how to use it, but also be the Director, who runs the show. A lot of people get irritated at the photographer, especially the guests, but he/she must be firm, assertive, yet kind to get the job done right. He/she is the one that must set up all the shots, tell people where to stand , which people are in, which out, in short he/she is ordering the entire wedding party around. The photographer must have the people skills to do this. A meek person, not used to taking charge like this would be a disaster.

This takes a special person with a LOT of skills, and that's why they get paid so much. They are a LOT more than just a photographer. That's why , when you sign up a professional wedding photographer you can relax on that part, knowing the the job will get done and get done right. Heaven knows you have a TON of other things to take care of.

But, I understand the budget problem. If at all possible, get a friend who has done weddings before and knows the shots that are needed. Or print out the list that one person posted here and follow it.
I just bought a G3 for our wedding comming next week since we
aren't not affordable for a professional photographs; but i have
been frustrated after practicing some pics in church where our
wedding will be.
Please point me out what wrong these pics:

http://www.pbase.com/image/10857101

http://www.pbase.com/image/10857115

They are taken in P mode
IS0 100
Fine compression
Interal Flash enable
and all other settings are default

Since my friend, who will take picture, and I are completely
newbies in digital camera so i call out your help.

Please help me reset all functions. I greatly appreciate all your
proposal for an appropriate setting of my G3.

Thanks in advance.
 
you may want to check the Yellow Page in Yahoo to find out if there is any rental place nearby in your area. I am sure there is one around. It may be an hour or two away though.

I don't have the 420EX so I am not sure if the 420EX has any external adjustment you can make besides the rotation and swivel of the flash head.

If you set the TV to 1/30 or 1/15, the TV will stay this way always. It doesn't matter where you point the camera. The flash and camera will adjust the flash output to ensure proper exposure. Becareful about using this low shutter speed though. Make sure that your friend changes it back to P or AV mode when he shoots outdoor pictures or else all your outside pictures will be grossly over exposed (assuming it's going to be bright outside that day).

Thang.
I really appreciate your guide that means so much to me. It is
just what I needed to hear.
would you tell me where (store' name) I can rent external flash and
all of its equipment. I wish i could live in California, but now i
am in a military base (anyone know FtSill, OK) where only for rules
and weapon around, and no one here knows about professional
photography.
Other questions:
Any setting on external flash? The 420EX can be a replacement for
the 550EX in case?

If I set camera in TV mode, the TV values 1/30 or 1/15 will change
everytime when we take picture at different places?

Thanks again. Your advice is kindness and good taste.
I have done several weddings before so hopefully my advice will
help. Like almost everyone else has suggested, get an external
flash. I highly recommend the 550EX. The 420EX will NOT be powerful
enough for pictures inside the church. Whatever you do, DON'T
bounce the flash. The ceiling of the church is way too high to have
any affect. Bouncing the flash will only drain your battery.
Speaking of battery, get an external battery pack as well,
something like the Quantum Turbo Z. You can rent all these
equipment for less than $50/day. In California, I can rent a 550EX
for $10/day and the battery pack for another $10. If you don't want
to carry the battery pack around, get some NimH batteries for its
fast recycling time. Make sure you bring several sets.

Next, put your flash on a rotating flash bracket to avoid red eyes
and shadows in vertical shots. Bring plenty of CF cards. I would
get at least 2-3 512mb and a laptop so you can download these
pictures once the card filled up. Bring at least 2 511 batteries
for the camera. Make sure to tell the person who is going to use
this camera to bring a friend along to help him/her with the
downloading. Also tell this person to make sure he/she is fully
familiar with the camera, flash and setup.

In terms of camera, I would set everything in P mode. ISO 50 or 100
NOT higher than this. Set the compression in Super Fine or RAW. I
personally preferred RAW because that gives me the flexibility in
adjusting the level of sharpness, saturation, contrast, WB... later
on. Set the WB to either neutral or sunlight. Yes, trust me on
this. Don't set the WB to Flash setting. Set the FLASH exposure
compensation in the camera to +1/3 or +1/2. I have noticed that the
camera tend to under expose the flash a little bit when you
transfered the file to PC even though the pictures might look fine
on the LCD.

If you have time, you may want to play around with the TV setting.
If your friend has firm hands, set the TV value to 1/30 or as low
as 1/15. This will alllow the camera to capture some ambient light
inside the church. I find these kind of shots to be very nice and
romantic. My clients love them. This way, your subject will be
properly exposed by the flash and the background is lid by the
ambient light. Rent everything if you can to cut down the cost.
Good luck.

Thang.
I just bought a G3 for our wedding comming next week since we
aren't not affordable for a professional photographs; but i have
been frustrated after practicing some pics in church where our
wedding will be.
Please point me out what wrong these pics:

http://www.pbase.com/image/10857101

http://www.pbase.com/image/10857115

They are taken in P mode
IS0 100
Fine compression
Interal Flash enable
and all other settings are default

Since my friend, who will take picture, and I are completely
newbies in digital camera so i call out your help.

Please help me reset all functions. I greatly appreciate all your
proposal for an appropriate setting of my G3.

Thanks in advance.
--
 
I preferred +1/3 or +2/3 (which is the same as 1/3 or 2/3) for FLASH EXPOSURE COMPENSATION (please note the all caps). If it set it to zero flash exposure compensation, the downloaded pictures tend to be a little darker on my monitor. Not sure why though.

There was a long discussion on why the WB setting to Flash is so bad last week. It was generated by OlgaJ. I think Canon is just trying to add some "warmth" into pictures taken with the flash. Believe it or not, I have known wedding photographers who shoot with 35mm film went as far as covering the flash head w/ gel to produce some warmth in their pictures. Their reasoning is it makes the pictures look more natural. Check out photo.net forum and do a search on "flash gel". You will find tons of information on this topic. For me with my G3 and 550EX, I set the WB to "sunlight" and bounce the flash instead.

Thang.
Set the WB to either neutral or sunlight. Yes, trust me on
this. Don't set the WB to Flash setting. Set the FLASH exposure
compensation in the camera to +1/3 or +1/2. I have noticed that the
camera tend to under expose the flash a little bit when you
transfered the file to PC even though the pictures might look fine
on the LCD.
Thanks, thang! I just learned something new. You're right, flash
pictures DO look better with WB set to sunlight instead of flash
(although I couldn't find a neutral setting on my G3.) Also, I
could only set flash exposure compensation in 1/3 stop increments.
Would +1/3 or +2/3 be preferable?

I wonder why the flash white balance setting looks so bad...
 
i never had the problem. i use a stofen omnibounce plain - and it warms up the picture every so slighty... and of course as it is digital, it's a snap to warm it up if it's needed.

---Mike Savad
There was a long discussion on why the WB setting to Flash is so
bad last week. It was generated by OlgaJ. I think Canon is just
trying to add some "warmth" into pictures taken with the flash.
Believe it or not, I have known wedding photographers who shoot
with 35mm film went as far as covering the flash head w/ gel to
produce some warmth in their pictures. Their reasoning is it makes
the pictures look more natural. Check out photo.net forum and do a
search on "flash gel". You will find tons of information on this
topic. For me with my G3 and 550EX, I set the WB to "sunlight" and
bounce the flash instead.

Thang.
Set the WB to either neutral or sunlight. Yes, trust me on
this. Don't set the WB to Flash setting. Set the FLASH exposure
compensation in the camera to +1/3 or +1/2. I have noticed that the
camera tend to under expose the flash a little bit when you
transfered the file to PC even though the pictures might look fine
on the LCD.
Thanks, thang! I just learned something new. You're right, flash
pictures DO look better with WB set to sunlight instead of flash
(although I couldn't find a neutral setting on my G3.) Also, I
could only set flash exposure compensation in 1/3 stop increments.
Would +1/3 or +2/3 be preferable?

I wonder why the flash white balance setting looks so bad...
--
--
http://www.pbase.com/savad/ http://www.photosig.com/userphotos.php?id=9050
 
Bolin, hiring a pro for a limited wedding shoot should not cost 3 times the price of a G3 - limited packages should be available for significantly less than the price of a G3.

After hearing you are in Ft Sill - if this is THE Ft Sill in Oklahoma where Geronimo is buried!!, I begin to understand your situation. Your nearest source of pro photographers is likely Lawton and if not there, then Oklahoma City (a couple of hundred miles away). Your nearest source of rental equipment is likely Oklahoma City. Still I wonder if you've looked hard enough for a pro who's willing to accomodate your needs.

IMHO, many wedding packages are overblown. The most important part is a good portrait of the bride and groom. After that, some group shots of the main wedding participants, relatives and close friends would complete a basic package. A pro will make all this happen quickly and effortlessly.

If you feel your only choice is your inexperienced friends, then by all means follow Don's advice and scout locations in or near the church. Look for uncluttered backgrounds. The last thing you want is a picture of your bride with the arms of a cross sticking out of her ears. See if you can arrange a time for an on location practice shoot (with people!) before the event to give your friend a chance to practice. Make sure the practice session is at the same time of day as your wedding. Leave yourself some time to panic and hire a pro.

An experienced photographer could pull off a wedding with a G3, but most would prefer to use a medium format camera, or an expensive DSLR. They would supplement the lighting (420EX or 550EX), and use an off-camera flash bracket with a diffuser.

You should be aware that flash photography is more prone to error than regular photography. This forum has seen many complaints about digicam wedding photos that were all washed out, were underexposed, had ugly shadows, greenish color balance, out of focus, too much depth of field - all because the photographer didn't know what they were doing. Your friend needs to start learning the ropes now.

good luck ... and best wishes ... gkl
 
Another approach-

It sounds like you are in the military, explain the situation to your sergeant, he will know the sergeant in Public Affairs / Public Relations. The noncoms know everyone and help each other. You might be able to borrow the base photographer for your wedding, ask if he/she has experience. This might only cost you a few cases of beer and/or a few favors to the sergeant. You can still work on improving the G3 photos and have someone shoot with it as a backup plan.
...always stay on the good side of your sergeant.
-Doug
I just bought a G3 for our wedding comming next week since we
aren't not affordable for a professional photographs; but i have
been frustrated after practicing some pics in church where our
wedding will be.
Please point me out what wrong these pics:

http://www.pbase.com/image/10857101

http://www.pbase.com/image/10857115

They are taken in P mode
IS0 100
Fine compression
Interal Flash enable
and all other settings are default

Since my friend, who will take picture, and I are completely
newbies in digital camera so i call out your help.

Please help me reset all functions. I greatly appreciate all your
proposal for an appropriate setting of my G3.

Thanks in advance.
 
Bolin

I just reviewed some of these posts and noticed you are in Ft Sill. As Doug just said, there should be several professional/semi-professional photographers who would be willing to "do" your wedding for a modest fee. The Post Public Relations office will have a photographer. I imagine there is a Post Newspaper where you will find another photographer. Unless Ft Sill is unique in the U.S. Army, there will be an office which produces graphics for training, briefings etc - another photographer.

I know the Post Photographer in Ft Huachuca AZ had a home based portrait business which occupied his evenings and weekends. He didn't shoot weddings, but he probably would have if asked. A little local research might solve your problem.
Cheers
'It's all about light'
Don McVee
http://www.pbase.com/mcveed/gallery01
 
I, for one, will be really mad if you call off the wedding. After all, we all invested so much time in you. I also hope you were not pulling our leg by describing your plan to have your wedding pictures taken in the manner you described. I believe you 98% though so you are in good shape.

It is interesting in general to know how much time one needs with digicams to make acceptable photos. It took me about 1000 shots with the SLR to get where I wanted to be. That was over a period of about 2 years. I could easily take that many shots within a month using digital gear. So, a WHOLE week could seriously go a long way.

Mehdi(e)
----------------------------------------------------------
Bolin
I just reviewed some of these posts and noticed you are in Ft Sill.
As Doug just said, there should be several
professional/semi-professional photographers who would be willing
to "do" your wedding for a modest fee. The Post Public Relations
office will have a photographer. I imagine there is a Post
Newspaper where you will find another photographer. Unless Ft Sill
is unique in the U.S. Army, there will be an office which produces
graphics for training, briefings etc - another photographer.
I know the Post Photographer in Ft Huachuca AZ had a home based
portrait business which occupied his evenings and weekends. He
didn't shoot weddings, but he probably would have if asked. A
little local research might solve your problem.
Cheers
'It's all about light'
Don McVee
http://www.pbase.com/mcveed/gallery01
 
Thank you for all your helps. I appreciate you, and what your comment are. "I agree with every word you write, and I can prove this in no better way than by taking your advice from beginning to end."

Bolin
I just bought a G3 for our wedding comming next week since we
aren't not affordable for a professional photographs; but i have
been frustrated after practicing some pics in church where our
wedding will be.
Please point me out what wrong these pics:

http://www.pbase.com/image/10857101

http://www.pbase.com/image/10857115

They are taken in P mode
IS0 100
Fine compression
Interal Flash enable
and all other settings are default

Since my friend, who will take picture, and I are completely
newbies in digital camera so i call out your help.

Please help me reset all functions. I greatly appreciate all your
proposal for an appropriate setting of my G3.

Thanks in advance.
 

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