the Japanese samples

Peter69322 · Jan 14, 2003

John-B- wish I could say it was an Eminem reference. Alas, it's to an American TV show called "To Tell The Truth" from the 1960's in which 3 people would claim to be someone and the panel would ask questions and guess, then the host would say, "will the real ..... please stand up". Actually a pretty witty show with Kitty Carlisle a constant panel member, one of the most intelligent, urbane women we've had, (actually said "no" when George Gershwin asked her to marry him), a great singer and actress, well, maybe I digress.....Peter

John-B said:
Peter said:

I've been able to download the Mask only from the Japanese site.
Very impressive. Excellent dynamic range, excellent resolution,
very little and acceptable noise in shadows. I think "the real 14N
has just stood up". (I date myself, for sure)......Peter

Click to expand...

I'll second that. I've only managed to get the model in the red
sweater and the mask so far but both are beautiful images - and
these are jpegs!
After the real dissapointment of this morning (for us in the UK)
I'm heartened to see these images and the true potential of this
camera at long last.

J

p.s. Didn't Eminem sing something about "Will the real Slim Shady
please stand up" only last year

ajs2 · Jan 14, 2003

Hi,

Just look in the girls eye @ 200% is that the studio light refected of the back of the puple?

--
Alex
LWS Photographic

Paul W. Walters · Jan 14, 2003

A movie in the theaters right now by Steven Spielberg called "Catch me if you Can" opens up with one of the "To Tell The Truth" shows. So, we all know that you're young and THAT is where you got your reference from. And your knowledge of history helped you understand the rest.

Paul

Peter said:
John-B said:

Peter said:

I've been able to download the Mask only from the Japanese site.
Very impressive. Excellent dynamic range, excellent resolution,
very little and acceptable noise in shadows. I think "the real 14N
has just stood up". (I date myself, for sure)......Peter

Click to expand...

I'll second that. I've only managed to get the model in the red
sweater and the mask so far but both are beautiful images - and
these are jpegs!
After the real dissapointment of this morning (for us in the UK)
I'm heartened to see these images and the true potential of this
camera at long last.

J

p.s. Didn't Eminem sing something about "Will the real Slim Shady
please stand up" only last year

Click to expand...

Peter69322 · Jan 14, 2003

Yeah, Paul.. it was Catch me If You Can, otherwise I never heard of it..grin...I liked the movie, even if sentimental, and, that was Kitty Carlisle in the To Tell the Truth scene, I'm sure the original clip, and , believe it or not, (this ain't Japanese samples after all), I remember seeing the original show on this character! I also grew up in New Rochelle! Er, um, great camera-huh? ....Peter

Paul W. Walters said:
Paul

Peter said:

John-B said:

Peter said:

I've been able to download the Mask only from the Japanese site.
Very impressive. Excellent dynamic range, excellent resolution,
very little and acceptable noise in shadows. I think "the real 14N
has just stood up". (I date myself, for sure)......Peter

Click to expand...

I'll second that. I've only managed to get the model in the red
sweater and the mask so far but both are beautiful images - and
these are jpegs!
After the real dissapointment of this morning (for us in the UK)
I'm heartened to see these images and the true potential of this
camera at long last.

J

p.s. Didn't Eminem sing something about "Will the real Slim Shady
please stand up" only last year

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Bern Caughey · Jan 14, 2003

Member said:
Peter, it is maybe subjective, but after comparing the 16(17), 24
and 28mm set of images from the 1ds and 14n (1ds upsampled to 14n
size, and slightly sharpened to compensate), I would call the 14n
"sharper" by a very small margin, not the 1Ds.

With these images, note that the 14n's jpegs are twice the size of the Canon's.

Regards,
Bern

Dick Lau of Calgary · Jan 14, 2003

Thanks to the link of Kichiko, this is a direct comparison of 14n and others

http://homepage.mac.com/WebObjects/FileSharing.woa/9/wo/28AkHgiraVelI469.2/0.2.1.2.19.31.97.10.35.0.1.1.1?user=ipi&fpath=%8Ae%8B%40%8E%ED%94%E4%8Ar&templatefn=FileSharing.html

kichiko said:
They are in the "DCS Pro14n beta sample" of
http://homepage.mac.com/ipi/FileSharing.html . I think that it is
early.
If Japanese cannot be displayed, Here is automatic translation.

http://www.excite.co.jp/world/url/?wb_url=http%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Fipi%2FFileSharing.html&wb_lp=JAEN&wb_dis=2&wb_co=excitejapan

Is my English strange?
Kichiko@Japan

--
**** Lau of Calgary
[email protected]

jerpat · Jan 14, 2003

I've looked at the Japanese images over & over. At my leisure I may even print 13x19's to compare. At this point I'm only convinced of 1 thing, the Japanese photographer makes better shots than JK. I'm not convinced the 14n images are significantly better than it's lower MP competition, especially compared to the S2. In fact I wouldn't bet they're much better than my 5MP Sony F707. After the extended delay & repeated deceptive BS from Kodak I don't find that "THIS CAMERA ROCKS!" as was hyped.

When you consider you can buy 2 S2's & still take your wife out for a nice evening for the price of 1 14n...Hmmmmmmm!

**** Lau of Calgary said:
http://homepage.mac.com/WebObjects/FileSharing.woa/9/wo/28AkHgiraVelI469.2/0.2.1.2.19.31.97.10.35.0.1.1.1?user=ipi&fpath=%8Ae%8B%40%8E%ED%94%E4%8Ar&templatefn=FileSharing.html

kichiko said:

They are in the "DCS Pro14n beta sample" of
http://homepage.mac.com/ipi/FileSharing.html . I think that it is
early.
If Japanese cannot be displayed, Here is automatic translation.

http://www.excite.co.jp/world/url/?wb_url=http%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Fipi%2FFileSharing.html&wb_lp=JAEN&wb_dis=2&wb_co=excitejapan

Is my English strange?
Kichiko@Japan

Click to expand...

--
**** Lau of Calgary
[email protected]

Steven Noyes · Jan 14, 2003

But then again I have never been impressed with the over over sharpening that the S2 does even on its low setting. The 14n show significantly less halos (none??) compared to the S2. The edges are sharp and there is more detail in the mask shot. The only thing that comes close is the 1Ds. I still have issues with hair on the 14n however. It just does not look real.

Steven.

--
---
Something different.
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/the_homeland

David SL · Jan 14, 2003

jerpat said:
I've looked at the Japanese images over & over. At my leisure I
may even print 13x19's to compare. At this point I'm only
convinced of 1 thing, the Japanese photographer makes better shots
than JK. I'm not convinced the 14n images are significantly better
than it's lower MP competition, especially compared to the S2.

right...

jerpat said:
In
fact I wouldn't bet they're much better than my 5MP Sony F707.

yeah....

jerpat said:
After the extended delay & repeated deceptive BS from Kodak I
don't find that "THIS CAMERA ROCKS!" as was hyped.

uh huh...

jerpat said:
When you consider you can buy 2 S2's & still take your wife out for
a nice evening for the price of 1 14n...Hmmmmmmm!

Ok..now think of the price of the 1ds which has about 3 million less pixels and costs double the price for image quality that's not as good. Now that! sounds like a ("Hmmmmmmm!" )^3 to me...

All kidding aside, this is medium format quality for the masses ..that 4k price will mean nothing to guys that were ready to fork over 8k for the less equipped in the image department (if the japanese 14n samples are indeed representative of final image quality) 1Ds, if ultimate image quality was all they wanted.

If these Japanese samples are representative, the ultimate in IQ is here.

--

Brad Husick · Jan 14, 2003

Try this: download the mask image for the 14n, the 1Ds and the D1X. Now, without resizing, put a convenient crop of the same part of the image of all three shots on one page and print it. The Kodak gives us so much more information to work with!

I shoot with a D1X and I get 3008x1960 images to work with, whereas the 14n gives us 4500x3000 images! On an 8x10 page, the native Kodak image is 8 inches wide and the native Nikon image is 5 inches wide. I can't wait!

-Brad

jerpat said:
**** Lau of Calgary said:

http://homepage.mac.com/WebObjects/FileSharing.woa/9/wo/28AkHgiraVelI469.2/0.2.1.2.19.31.97.10.35.0.1.1.1?user=ipi&fpath=%8Ae%8B%40%8E%ED%94%E4%8Ar&templatefn=FileSharing.html

kichiko said:

They are in the "DCS Pro14n beta sample" of
http://homepage.mac.com/ipi/FileSharing.html . I think that it is
early.
If Japanese cannot be displayed, Here is automatic translation.

http://www.excite.co.jp/world/url/?wb_url=http%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Fipi%2FFileSharing.html&wb_lp=JAEN&wb_dis=2&wb_co=excitejapan

Is my English strange?
Kichiko@Japan

Click to expand...

--
**** Lau of Calgary
[email protected]

Click to expand...

Derrick Siu · Jan 15, 2003

Did anyone considering the lens used from the Japanese site is expected to have better image compare with the lens used in Kodak's site?

Kodak used 24-85 f2.8 to f4.0
Japanese used 60mm f2.8 micro
How about Canon?

Derrick

Brad Husick said:
I shoot with a D1X and I get 3008x1960 images to work with, whereas
the 14n gives us 4500x3000 images! On an 8x10 page, the native
Kodak image is 8 inches wide and the native Nikon image is 5 inches
wide. I can't wait!

-Brad

jerpat said:

**** Lau of Calgary said:

http://homepage.mac.com/WebObjects/FileSharing.woa/9/wo/28AkHgiraVelI469.2/0.2.1.2.19.31.97.10.35.0.1.1.1?user=ipi&fpath=%8Ae%8B%40%8E%ED%94%E4%8Ar&templatefn=FileSharing.html

kichiko said:

They are in the "DCS Pro14n beta sample" of
http://homepage.mac.com/ipi/FileSharing.html . I think that it is
early.
If Japanese cannot be displayed, Here is automatic translation.

http://www.excite.co.jp/world/url/?wb_url=http%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Fipi%2FFileSharing.html&wb_lp=JAEN&wb_dis=2&wb_co=excitejapan

Is my English strange?
Kichiko@Japan

Click to expand...

--
**** Lau of Calgary
[email protected]

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Matt Chroust · Jan 15, 2003

Paul, I think they are talking about the resolution target labeled "ISO CHART" (In Japanese). It's the first image in the first 14n folder on that site.

Regards,

Matt

JLK said:
Paul W. Walters said:

Paul

John-B said:

Peter said:

I've been able to download the Mask only from the Japanese site.
Very impressive. Excellent dynamic range, excellent resolution,
very little and acceptable noise in shadows. I think "the real 14N
has just stood up". (I date myself, for sure)......Peter

Click to expand...

I'll second that. I've only managed to get the model in the red
sweater and the mask so far but both are beautiful images - and
these are jpegs!
After the real dissapointment of this morning (for us in the UK)
I'm heartened to see these images and the true potential of this
camera at long last.

J

p.s. Didn't Eminem sing something about "Will the real Slim Shady
please stand up" only last year

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

It's on the Japanese site

--
--Jim--

--
Matt

Matt Chroust · Jan 15, 2003

Sorry, I just saw that harlequin mask thumbnail that JLK posted the link to. It took a long time to come in - that site must be getting hammered. Anyway, I don't know where it is, I only got the buildings, the girl in the sweater and the ISO target.

Regards

Matt

Matt Chroust said:
Regards,

Matt

JLK said:

Paul W. Walters said:

Paul

John-B said:

Peter said:

I've been able to download the Mask only from the Japanese site.
Very impressive. Excellent dynamic range, excellent resolution,
very little and acceptable noise in shadows. I think "the real 14N
has just stood up". (I date myself, for sure)......Peter

Click to expand...

I'll second that. I've only managed to get the model in the red
sweater and the mask so far but both are beautiful images - and
these are jpegs!
After the real dissapointment of this morning (for us in the UK)
I'm heartened to see these images and the true potential of this
camera at long last.

J

p.s. Didn't Eminem sing something about "Will the real Slim Shady
please stand up" only last year

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

It's on the Japanese site

--
--Jim--

Click to expand...

--
Matt

--
Matt

MartinF · Jan 15, 2003

Matt Chroust said:
Sorry, I just saw that harlequin mask thumbnail that JLK posted the
link to. It took a long time to come in - that site must be
getting hammered. Anyway, I don't know where it is, I only got the
buildings, the girl in the sweater and the ISO target.

That mask picture is really the best image I could see from the 14n!
But there is a problem with it, Photoshop said and did not open it.

So I copied it to the RAM buffer and pasted it in an empty 4500x3000 data - here it is - incredible!
And I was first so disappointed by the first "official" images ...

Regards - Martin

Stefan Klocke · Jan 15, 2003

Bern,

yes, BUT the 14n uses the JPG - ERI ? format that is like JPG plus RAW. The jpg-part in the Kodak file would therefore be much smaller.

Stefan

Bern Caughey said:
Bern Caughey said:

Peter, it is maybe subjective, but after comparing the 16(17), 24
and 28mm set of images from the 1ds and 14n (1ds upsampled to 14n
size, and slightly sharpened to compensate), I would call the 14n
"sharper" by a very small margin, not the 1Ds.

Click to expand...

With these images, note that the 14n's jpegs are twice the size of
the Canon's.

Regards,
Bern

Richard C · Jan 15, 2003

Derrick Siu said:
Did anyone considering the lens used from the Japanese site is
expected to have better image compare with the lens used in Kodak's
site?

Kodak used 24-85 f2.8 to f4.0
Japanese used 60mm f2.8 micro
How about Canon?

Derrick

The lens wouldn't have made that much difference. I use a 24-85 F2.8 and 60 Micro on my S2 and whilst the 60 is sharper, it doesn't reduce sensor noise, which was the problem with the Kodak images. Quite frankly I am still not convinced that the Japanese samples were made with a Kodak. Anyone can rewrite EXIF data and resizing a 1Ds image to 4500 X 3000 would take only seconds.
--
Richard C. South Australia

ResIpsaLoquitur · Jan 15, 2003

Of course they were made with a Kodak. First, Jay has confirmed this, and second, the guy who took these shots is a well known figure - he would destroy his reputation if he faked the shots.

RIL

Richard C said:
Derrick Siu said:

Did anyone considering the lens used from the Japanese site is
expected to have better image compare with the lens used in Kodak's
site?

Kodak used 24-85 f2.8 to f4.0
Japanese used 60mm f2.8 micro
How about Canon?

Derrick

Click to expand...

The lens wouldn't have made that much difference. I use a 24-85
F2.8 and 60 Micro on my S2 and whilst the 60 is sharper, it doesn't
reduce sensor noise, which was the problem with the Kodak images.
Quite frankly I am still not convinced that the Japanese samples
were made with a Kodak. Anyone can rewrite EXIF data and resizing
a 1Ds image to 4500 X 3000 would take only seconds.
--
Richard C. South Australia

ResIpsaLoquitur · Jan 15, 2003

Shoot RAW with the S2, and goodbye halos, hello even better quality.

RIL

Steven Noyes said:
But then again I have never been impressed with the over over
sharpening that the S2 does even on its low setting. The 14n show
significantly less halos (none??) compared to the S2. The edges
are sharp and there is more detail in the mask shot. The only
thing that comes close is the 1Ds. I still have issues with hair
on the 14n however. It just does not look real.

Steven.

--
---
Something different.
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/the_homeland

Richard C · Jan 15, 2003

ResIpsaLoquitur said:
RIL

Kodak have done such a spectacular job of destroying their credibility over this camera that I will no longer be taking ANYTHING on trust from them. I'll believe I've seen genuine samples of a well handled 14N when Phil posts them in his own test.
--

ResIpsaLoquitur said:
ResIpsaLoquitur said:

Richard C. South Australia

Click to expand...

--
Richard C. South Australia

Paul F Caldwell · Jan 15, 2003

The Kodak posts were taken at about 70% noise reduction on. Way over kill, the Japanese shots had no noise reduction on.

If you have to use 70% on the Kodak all the time, you will get gelatin lookng leaves and such, just like the images Kodak posted. if you want really ugly look at the imagingresourse stuff.

No doubt with a 2" max exposure, Kodak ran in to bad noise issues, and apparently still have them.

Paul Caldwell

Richard C said:
ResIpsaLoquitur said:

RIL

Click to expand...

Kodak have done such a spectacular job of destroying their
credibility over this camera that I will no longer be taking
ANYTHING on trust from them. I'll believe I've seen genuine
samples of a well handled 14N when Phil posts them in his own test.
--

Richard C said:

Richard C said:

Richard C. South Australia

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Richard C. South Australia

the Japanese samples

Senior Member

Leading Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Forum Enthusiast

Senior Member

Forum Pro

Senior Member

Member

Senior Member

Leading Member

Leading Member

Leading Member

Stefan Klocke

Guest

Leading Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Leading Member

Leading Member

Keyboard shortcuts