CCD cleaning disaster.

Simon Lau · Jan 13, 2003

Raul said:
Simon,

(when the mirror flicked back into position.)

If it had by accident, you would had had a really expensive repair

Yes, quite - I was aware of that before attempting the operation, so afterwards I was feeling a bit lucky.

I use the tried and tested methods of cleaning now - blowers just don't cut it, especially in the dusty environment that is my bedroom (I'm just a poor student)

eric_j_h · Jan 13, 2003

Simon Lau said:
I use the tried and tested methods of cleaning now - blowers just
don't cut it, especially in the dusty environment that is my
bedroom (I'm just a poor student)

Not THAT poor if you can afford a D100 plus some glass, memory cards, and a decent spec. computer to edit your images...........when I was a poor student all I could afford was an Olympus OM10 with a manual adapter. I thought it was the bee's b0ll0cks........(that means very good)

Raul · Jan 13, 2003

No my friend. I set the camera in a position that I want (almost flat on top of my table); a light is set above the camera directed into the dreaded black holeand giving me a good "reflected" view of the ccd; my right hand holds my knife (plastic) with pecpad and the left is ready for moving the camera slightly, adjusting my loupe, moving the light or anything that is required. I have added one drop of liquid to the tip for the return pass if I see something not quite clean.

Regards

Raul

Zorpie said:
One hand was holding the D100 - the other was holding a swab !!
Even if your finger wasn't on the shutter realease button - one
hand would still be holding the camera whilst you were using a
swab. So that is what MY two hands were doing at the time !!

Raul said:

(when the mirror flicked back into position.)

If it had by accident, you would had had a really expensive repair

Zorpie said:

What would be nice is if the CCD automatically raised up for easy
access, but now I'm dreaming...

Click to expand...

Or one that does not attract and hold to all that grit.

I use both hands to clean so no chance of holding the trigger.

Regards
Raul

Click to expand...

Edman · Jan 13, 2003

After cleaning D100 CCD, this is what I've got (pic below). I don't know if I have scratched the ccd, or one of the pixel is dead. And the green dot show up at all shutter speed. Any idea?

--
EdMan

F80/MB16 + AFS 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5G, AF 50mm f/1.8D, Tamron 70-300 f/4-5.6LD Macro, SB-50DX

Edman · Jan 13, 2003

After cleaning D100 CCD, this is what I've got (pic below). I don't know if I have scratched the ccd, or one of the pixel is dead. And the green dot show up at all shutter speed. Any idea?

PS: cropped photo from 100% D100 image size.

--
EdMan

F80/MB16 + AFS 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5G, AF 50mm f/1.8D, Tamron 70-300 f/4-5.6LD Macro, SB-50DX

Øyvind Kaurstad107264 · Jan 14, 2003

Edman said:
After cleaning D100 CCD, this is what I've got (pic below). I don't
know if I have scratched the ccd, or one of the pixel is dead. And
the green dot show up at all shutter speed. Any idea?

PS: cropped photo from 100% D100 image size.

This is not a scratched CCD-filter, it is a so-called "stuck" pixel.
Pixels can be hot, dead or stuck (and perfectly okay, of course.)

If it's hot, it will start showing as exposures get longer, if it's stuck it will be always on (like yours), and if it's dead it will be black. The latter is pretty seldom, I think.

This is fixable by sending the camera to Nikon, and they'll remap the stuck pixel by replacing it's value by interpolating neighboring pixels. This happens in the camera, and you'll not see any more of it.

All CCD's have such pixels, but they are remapped at the factory before shipping. Problem is that new ones will appear with age. My D100 is going back to get a hot pixel remapped. The procedure at the service centre is nearly fully automatic, and I think it's a shame that Nikon won't let us do this by ourselves. Sending the camera back each time you get a new one is annoying.

--
-Øyvind

BKKSW · Jan 14, 2003

Hi Raul -

I use ecilpse and sensor swabs when my CCD has dust on it, which averages 3-5 times a month.. I've never had any problem..

I'm kinda surprised you didn't recommend the muratic acid wash on the anti-aliasing fllter...:O) Not only does it clean off all those nasty coatings, but it etches the filter so a precisely cut piece of clean 2" packing tape sticks to the CCD real well and never comes off.. Then when it gets dusty again you just peel off the clean packinfg tape, clean off the adhesive residue with m ore muratic acid, and apply a new piece of tape! Gosh, a gallon of muratic acid at your local swimming pool supply dealer is about $3.00 U.S. and a 30 meter roll of clear packing tape is about $2.00 U.S.. No more problems..

A nice side effect of the acid etcing the CCD is the "softening" effect, you save money by not having to buy a softening filter.. And how about that solarising effect??? Wow, I just can't understand all this dscussion about such an easy task....:O)

I hope your having a great New Year!

BKKSW

Raul said:
Regards

Raul

Zorpie said:

One hand was holding the D100 - the other was holding a swab !!
Even if your finger wasn't on the shutter realease button - one
hand would still be holding the camera whilst you were using a
swab. So that is what MY two hands were doing at the time !!

Raul said:

(when the mirror flicked back into position.)

If it had by accident, you would had had a really expensive repair

Raul said:

What would be nice is if the CCD automatically raised up for easy
access, but now I'm dreaming...

Click to expand...

Or one that does not attract and hold to all that grit.

I use both hands to clean so no chance of holding the trigger.

Regards
Raul

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Zorpie · Jan 14, 2003

Hey BKKSW,

If you are sitting where I am - that post is not at all funny. Whilst I am not looking for sympathy here - the funny comments when facing a $1000 repair bill - are a little unneccessary. I hope it never happens to you.

BKKSW said:
I use ecilpse and sensor swabs when my CCD has dust on it, which
averages 3-5 times a month.. I've never had any problem..

I'm kinda surprised you didn't recommend the muratic acid wash on
the anti-aliasing fllter...:O) Not only does it clean off all
those nasty coatings, but it etches the filter so a precisely cut
piece of clean 2" packing tape sticks to the CCD real well and
never comes off.. Then when it gets dusty again you just peel off
the clean packinfg tape, clean off the adhesive residue with m ore
muratic acid, and apply a new piece of tape! Gosh, a gallon of
muratic acid at your local swimming pool supply dealer is about
$3.00 U.S. and a 30 meter roll of clear packing tape is about
$2.00 U.S.. No more problems..

A nice side effect of the acid etcing the CCD is the "softening"
effect, you save money by not having to buy a softening filter..
And how about that solarising effect??? Wow, I just can't
understand all this dscussion about such an easy task....:O)

I hope your having a great New Year!

BKKSW

Raul said:

Regards

Raul

Zorpie said:

One hand was holding the D100 - the other was holding a swab !!
Even if your finger wasn't on the shutter realease button - one
hand would still be holding the camera whilst you were using a
swab. So that is what MY two hands were doing at the time !!

Raul said:

(when the mirror flicked back into position.)

If it had by accident, you would had had a really expensive repair

BKKSW said:

What would be nice is if the CCD automatically raised up for easy
access, but now I'm dreaming...

Click to expand...

Or one that does not attract and hold to all that grit.

I use both hands to clean so no chance of holding the trigger.

Regards
Raul

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Sven Hedlund · Jan 14, 2003

4two said:
http://www.nikond1.net/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002005.html

This looks like an interesting idea

I have (fairly successfully) used the Eclipse/Pec-Pad method a couple of times, but it seems inefficient to wipe the CCD and leave the rest of the interior with dust. I would love to hear Thom Hogan's thoughts about this vaccum cleaning.

Sven

david stone · Jan 14, 2003

Øyvind Kaurstad107264 said:
Øyvind Kaurstad107264 said:

Edman wrote:
After cleaning D100 CCD, this is what I've got (pic below). I don't

Click to expand...

If you clean with Eclipse and get this streaking (as shown in the photo with the original post), then 1 or 2 things are happening to cause it .....

1) too much fluid. Use only 3-5 drops.
2) too little pressure . So how much pressure should one use ?.

Think of it this way. Imagine the back of your hand is a CCD which you will drag a swab across ... (Sorry ladies, but I will use the analogy with a male hand !)

When cleaning, most folks are too delicate, and slide over the

CCD so that they are just tickling the hairs of the hand. This means the swab never really comes in full, even contact with the CCD and results in no dust being removed, or even touched at all. Streaking will occur where the contact with swab and CCD is not completely even.

At the other end of the spectrum, pressure such that you pull the skin as you move the swab across the surface is too much pressure - though not likely (emphasis on NOT LIKELY) to cause damage. Further pressure would result in your feeling the stick handle pushing into your hand (WILL SNAP COVER GLASS) . Not good ! You should only ever feel the swab, NEVER the handle - in other words, the swab is evenly contacing the skin, the handle is applying pressure only to a small central point - [ DANGER WILL ROBINSON ;> ) ]

Just about any pressure that does not tickle and does not pull the skin will result in a clean CCD without streaks.There is a wide range of pressure here that will work ....

I hope this makes it a little easier to understand - or is this explanation confusing?

Many Feathers · Jan 14, 2003

Hi David,

This is a great explanation. I, too, congratulate you on your incredible service to this forum and standing behind your product. I have not yet cleaned my CCD, and when I first read this thread, was pretty scared to do so, although I have the Eclipse and pec pads. Seeing your posts and descriptions have encouraged me. I am a massage therapist by trade and am certain I can control the pressure on the CCD, now that I know how much to use

Thanks for your help.

MF

david stone said:
Member said:

Member said:

Edman wrote:
After cleaning D100 CCD, this is what I've got (pic below). I don't

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

If you clean with Eclipse and get this streaking (as shown in the
photo with the original post), then 1 or 2 things are happening to
cause it .....

1) too much fluid. Use only 3-5 drops.
2) too little pressure . So how much pressure should one use ?.

Think of it this way. Imagine the back of your hand is a CCD which
you will drag a swab across ... (Sorry ladies, but I will use the
analogy with a male hand !)

When cleaning, most folks are too delicate, and slide over the
CCD so that they are just tickling the hairs of the hand. This
means the swab never really comes in full, even contact with the
CCD and results in no dust being removed, or even touched at all.
Streaking will occur where the contact with swab and CCD is not
completely even.

At the other end of the spectrum, pressure such that you pull the
skin as you move the swab across the surface is too much pressure -
though not likely (emphasis on NOT LIKELY) to cause damage.
Further pressure would result in your feeling the stick handle
pushing into your hand (WILL SNAP COVER GLASS) . Not good ! You
should only ever feel the swab, NEVER the handle - in other words,
the swab is evenly contacing the skin, the handle is applying
pressure only to a small central point - [ DANGER WILL ROBINSON
;> ) ]

Just about any pressure that does not tickle and does not pull the
skin will result in a clean CCD without streaks.There is a wide
range of pressure here that will work ....

I hope this makes it a little easier to understand - or is this
explanation confusing?

Raul · Jan 14, 2003

Hello Sage of the East.

By jove, I think you've got it. Why did I not think of that before and by the way, your suggestion is also good for something else aka drinking it, which is exactly what I will do if this thread keeps moving.

Take care my friend and enjoy YOUR year.

Raul

BKKSW said:
Hi Raul -

I use ecilpse and sensor swabs when my CCD has dust on it, which
averages 3-5 times a month.. I've never had any problem..

I'm kinda surprised you didn't recommend the muratic acid wash on
the anti-aliasing fllter...:O) Not only does it clean off all
those nasty coatings, but it etches the filter so a precisely cut
piece of clean 2" packing tape sticks to the CCD real well and
never comes off.. Then when it gets dusty again you just peel off
the clean packinfg tape, clean off the adhesive residue with m ore
muratic acid, and apply a new piece of tape! Gosh, a gallon of
muratic acid at your local swimming pool supply dealer is about
$3.00 U.S. and a 30 meter roll of clear packing tape is about
$2.00 U.S.. No more problems..

A nice side effect of the acid etcing the CCD is the "softening"
effect, you save money by not having to buy a softening filter..
And how about that solarising effect??? Wow, I just can't
understand all this dscussion about such an easy task....:O)

I hope your having a great New Year!

BKKSW

Rick Wallace · Jan 14, 2003

Marek and others,

I do not in the least discount any of the difficult times people have had with cleaning their sensors. However, I do feel that at least some of the problem may come from people being so nervous that they don't do a forceful enough cleaning, and from people not following the careful advice given elsewhere.

I base this observation on my own personal experience. Admittedly, my experience doesn't mean there's no problem. Maybe I'm fortunate to have avoided mishapes. Personally, I don't think so.

I've now got thousands of images through my D100 with frequent cleanings under severe conditions and haven't had any problems.

In December I returned from my second overseas shoot since getting the D100, a trip through Chad and Cameroon in some of the dustiest photographic conditions I have ever encountered. (I formerly shot F100 and F90x.)

On several days during this last trip I was shooting sort of industrial photojournalism style on a pipeline construction in savana in dry season. You just simply wouldn't believe the amount of dust.

At the end of some days I was covered in red dust. The right hand side grip of the camera was red from dust which stuck due to the moisture and oils on my hand in the extreme heat. During this entire time I was changing lenses from wide angle to mid-range to tele constantly.

I probably don't need to tell you that I had to clean the sensor nightly. There really wasn't any choice in the matter!

For whatever it is worth to those in this thread, here are some notes on what works for me.

First, I clean myself! Then I "scrub" down the outside of the camera and the lenses and so on with a boar bristle brush (B&H has them) and a large microfiber cloth (one of two I carry, the Adorama special ones).

I get out my maglite miniature flashlight and magnifying glass and plug in the AC adapter. Have a look at the surface of the sensor, shining the light across the surface to look for dust. Depending on what I see, I will proceed with a two step cleaning process.

With the shutter closed, I hold the camera vertically, and hold the small can of air I carry vertically. I hold the air about six or more inches away from the mirror box and use the thin pipe to blow out the camera in short bursts to avoid any emission of propellant or condensate from the rapidly cooling air.

I then flip up the mirror using the menu and do the same thing. (Everybody gasp here. All I can tell you is I'm very practiced at avoiding any liquid getting on the sensor.) FYI, I've just ordered a big Swiss air bulb from Micro-tools and will try that in the future.

Re-examine with flashlight and magnifying glass. If it's not clear from the blow out, time to do a real cleaning.

I use the cut down kitchen spatula and Pec pad technique with eclipse. I find it's easy, with a flexible wedge on the end of the rubber spatula, to apply adequate pressure. You do have to exert some pressure, not just gently brush, in order to do the job. Half the technique is a sort of squeegee action you get with the stiff but flexible edge of the device. (Dave's description of the required pressure seemed right on to me.)

I use three or four drops of Eclipse on the Pec pad after it is folded around the end of the chisel edge sharpened into the end of the spatula.

If I don't suceed after two tries, re-examining the surface with flashlight and magnifier each time, I may need to "scrub" back and forth three or four strokes on a stubborn dirt spot. Dirt sometimes gets stuck. After that "scrub" motion I start fresh with a Thom Hogan-style two-swipe operation.

Occasionally, if stray dust seems a problem, I get out a sensor swab and make a "finishing" clean up two-swipe pass across the sensor.

The whole operation takes, at the very most, ten minutes. I can't take longer than that because I'm usually exhausted after a long, physical day in the field.

Some comments on things I've read in this thread....

I don't use any sort of lens fluid or fabric other than Eclipse and a Pec pad. Why take a chance with anything but the proven right thing?

Trying to economize on a pad by ripping or cutting it in half doesn't work because the edge will fray and no longer be lint free.

I wouldn't dream of using my finger. First of all, there's no straight edge squeegee effect because the end of your finger is soft and round. Second, I'd be concerned that natural oils (the same ones that leave crime-solving finger prints in murder mysteries) would seep through the fabric of the Pec pad.

It sounds like some folks are wrapping Pec pads around the sensor swabs. If so, I don't understand why and think this may actually be a bad thing to do. You'd just have more stuff flopping around in the mirror box. Use sensor swabs or a Pec pad, but not both together.

Hope this helps and reassures folks a bit,
Rick

Thom Hogan · Jan 14, 2003

Sven Hedlund said:
Sven Hedlund said:

http://www.nikond1.net/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002005.html

Click to expand...

This looks like an interesting idea
I have (fairly successfully) used the Eclipse/Pec-Pad method a
couple of times, but it seems inefficient to wipe the CCD and leave
the rest of the interior with dust. I would love to hear Thom
Hogan's thoughts about this vaccum cleaning.

Nikon specifically recommended against vacuum cleaning. The reason? There's air space between the filter and the CCD, and setting up an air current in camera could make a particle go between the two and lodge. And since the filter/CCD assembly is one unit that has to be replaced as a unit...bad news if it happens to you.

Moreover, I've noticed another thing about dust: when you move across humidity, as I often do while traveling, it tends to "weld" the dust to the filter. I actually tried a couple of experiments with this in Hawaii recently to see if I could verify this, with only partial success. My working theory: when condensation of any amount occurs on top of the dust and then dries, the dust is locked in place on the filter, and only physical contact with swab and fluid will remove it.

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide
author, Nikon Flash Guide
author, Complete Guide to the Nikon D100
author, Complete Guide to the Nikon D1, D1h, & D1x
http://www.bythom.com

Edman · Jan 14, 2003

Thanks for the explanation, although I think I don't understand it completely

Okay, let's make things simple. Does the green dot is fixable by recleaning the ccd, or simply it's dead (the pixel). This green dot wasn't there before, it showed up just after cleaning the ccd. I also noticed something that looks like dust on the ccd, but won't get off even after another sweep of swab. It certainly not dust, since dust will show up as dark spot on the image.

PS: my camera is already @ nikon service centre for a week. I don't know how long I should be without my digicam

--
EdMan

F80/MB16 + AFS 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5G, AF 50mm f/1.8D, Tamron 70-300 f/4-5.6LD Macro, SB-50DX

Joseph S Wisniewski · Jan 14, 2003

Simon Lau said:
First time I tried cleaning, I bought a cable release - What could
go wrong? forgetting to use bulb mode. Fortunatly, the blower
wasn't inside the camera when the mirror flicked back into position.

The camera won't be hurt if the mirror closes on a blower brush or a canned air nozzle. As long as the mirror doesn't pull the brush into the shutter (which is unlikely). The thing that's a real danger is if the shutter closes while a swab is on the sensor. That will trash the shutter curtains, and it's a real expensive repair.

Ciao!

Joe

Zorpie · Jan 14, 2003

Edman,

You sound as if you have the same problem as I have. The fact that you can see the spot on the CCD - and the fact it won't clean off - means that you could have a similar problem to my own. I thought - when you said that it was 'there at all shutter speeds' that it might have been a hot pixel. But - now you say that you can see it and it won't clean off the CCD - then it definitely isn't a pixel problem. Good luck with the repair - I am waiting on an answer from Nikon (UK) - it is a bit worrying when you don't know what has happened - or more to the point - what you did - to cause it.

Edman said:
Thanks for the explanation, although I think I don't understand it
completely Okay, let's make things simple. Does the green dot is
fixable by recleaning the ccd, or simply it's dead (the pixel).
This green dot wasn't there before, it showed up just after
cleaning the ccd. I also noticed something that looks like dust on
the ccd, but won't get off even after another sweep of swab. It
certainly not dust, since dust will show up as dark spot on the
image.

PS: my camera is already @ nikon service centre for a week. I don't
know how long I should be without my digicam

--
EdMan
F80/MB16 + AFS 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5G, AF 50mm f/1.8D, Tamron 70-300
f/4-5.6LD Macro, SB-50DX

DougM · Jan 14, 2003

Uh, just curious, if you're using an external battery pack that "powers the D100 for hours", but in a previous post you admit to have "... only taken about 200 photos max with it since September last year." [when you purchased it new], just what exactly are you doing with the camera when you have it powered on for hours??!

Shame on me for perpetuating this thread...

-doug

Zorpie said:
I bought a Nikon 4 pin plug from Paramount Cords in NY and fitted
it to the Unity Pro battery that I had for my Olympus E-10. This is
a 7.2 volt rechargeable NiMH about the size of a packet of 20
cigarettes with a belt clip. It powers the D100 for hours - quite a
while - and it gives me an excellent battery back-up as well mirror
lock up option on the menu.

Because I knew that I was not going to get an EH-5 for many months

and I knew my CCD needed cleaning - I had to improvise. This

works very well indeed. So yes. I WAS concentrating on my CCD
cleaning and NOT worrying about keeping my other finger on the
shutter release button !!

Simon Lau said:

Zorpie said:

Also, the job needs peace of mind and knowing that anything can go
wrong with my fingerhold, I would NEVER even think of trying a
cleaning (much less the first) without the ac adaptor. Impossible
to concentrate or succeed without it.

Click to expand...

First time I tried cleaning, I bought a cable release - What could
go wrong? forgetting to use bulb mode. Fortunatly, the blower
wasn't inside the camera when the mirror flicked back into position.

What would be nice is if the CCD automatically raised up for easy
access, but now I'm dreaming...

Click to expand...

Zorpie · Jan 14, 2003

Doug,

I already had the Unity Pro power pack (which I bought for my Olympus E-10) when I bought my D100. Rather than leave it unused - I decided to see if I could get a 4 pin Nikon external DC connector to have the battery as a back-up (before I bought a MBD100) - and if it would allow me to use the ccd cleaning option on the menu when I first saw the dust specks. I still don't have an EH-5 AC adaptor - despite ordering it two months ago. But as the MBD100 and that a second Nikon battery lasted a long time, I find I hardly need the Unity Pro backup. I don't have the camera powered for hours normally. But when Spring comes around again - myself and my wife do a lot of walking - and I will be doing a lot of shooting. I did tests with the Unity Pro power pack to see how long it would last (before I bought the MBD100) as it showed a 7.2 volt output after a charge - and it 'lasted for hours'. Thats all I meant.

DougM said:
Shame on me for perpetuating this thread...

-doug

Zorpie said:

I bought a Nikon 4 pin plug from Paramount Cords in NY and fitted
it to the Unity Pro battery that I had for my Olympus E-10. This is
a 7.2 volt rechargeable NiMH about the size of a packet of 20
cigarettes with a belt clip. It powers the D100 for hours - quite a
while - and it gives me an excellent battery back-up as well mirror
lock up option on the menu.

Because I knew that I was not going to get an EH-5 for many months

and I knew my CCD needed cleaning - I had to improvise. This

works very well indeed. So yes. I WAS concentrating on my CCD
cleaning and NOT worrying about keeping my other finger on the
shutter release button !!

Simon Lau said:

DougM said:

Also, the job needs peace of mind and knowing that anything can go
wrong with my fingerhold, I would NEVER even think of trying a
cleaning (much less the first) without the ac adaptor. Impossible
to concentrate or succeed without it.

Click to expand...

First time I tried cleaning, I bought a cable release - What could
go wrong? forgetting to use bulb mode. Fortunatly, the blower
wasn't inside the camera when the mirror flicked back into position.

What would be nice is if the CCD automatically raised up for easy
access, but now I'm dreaming...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Zorpie · Jan 14, 2003

Doug ...

and what on earth is wrong with 'perpetuating this thread ?' Surely - it is a discussion with a common interest ??

DougM said:
Shame on me for perpetuating this thread...

-doug

Zorpie said:

I bought a Nikon 4 pin plug from Paramount Cords in NY and fitted
it to the Unity Pro battery that I had for my Olympus E-10. This is
a 7.2 volt rechargeable NiMH about the size of a packet of 20
cigarettes with a belt clip. It powers the D100 for hours - quite a
while - and it gives me an excellent battery back-up as well mirror
lock up option on the menu.

Because I knew that I was not going to get an EH-5 for many months

and I knew my CCD needed cleaning - I had to improvise. This

works very well indeed. So yes. I WAS concentrating on my CCD
cleaning and NOT worrying about keeping my other finger on the
shutter release button !!

Simon Lau said:

DougM said:

Also, the job needs peace of mind and knowing that anything can go
wrong with my fingerhold, I would NEVER even think of trying a
cleaning (much less the first) without the ac adaptor. Impossible
to concentrate or succeed without it.

Click to expand...

First time I tried cleaning, I bought a cable release - What could
go wrong? forgetting to use bulb mode. Fortunatly, the blower
wasn't inside the camera when the mirror flicked back into position.

What would be nice is if the CCD automatically raised up for easy
access, but now I'm dreaming...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

CCD cleaning disaster.

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