Just another set of bird shots from HS30

I hope your version is on the left Joms.
--
Apologies if my lack of photographic knowledge is catching.
Nope. Right is and it was an exaggerated edit to show the detail that is not visible in the original photo.

Just because the histogram says everything is fine doesn't mean you don't need to do anything about it.

-=[ Joms ]=-
 
You've lost the plot, that looks like an HDR! :P

Paul.
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Hehe I pulled the Highlights to -100 and Shadows to +100. =D

See the details now? Unless your Tit is wearing black shades then it is OK.

-=[ Joms ]=-
 
Nope. Right is and it was an exaggerated edit to show the detail that is not visible in the original photo.
Why exagerate? If it needed processing why not do what you think is required? What you did in no way helps your argument.

--
Apologies if my lack of photographic knowledge is catching.
 
Nope. Right is and it was an exaggerated edit to show the detail that is not visible in the original photo.
Why exagerate? If it needed processing why not do what you think is required?
I could have done it better, that is what I meant. Of course it is required.
What you did in no way helps your argument.
Never mind the "exaggerated" word.
--
Apologies if my lack of photographic knowledge is catching.
--
-=[ Joms ]=-
 
Oh well. I tried.

Your bird shots are starting to look better. I don't think you will do much better in the light you had. Good to see you using 1/100s shutter speed in most shots. I do think your images are underexposed as well, I tend to be on the underexposed side with mine as well.

--
Apologies if my lack of photographic knowledge is catching.
 
Oh well. I tried.

Your bird shots are starting to look better. I don't think you will do much better in the light you had.
I have been shooting in not ideal light so let's see next week.
Good to see you using 1/100s shutter speed in most shots.
I occasionally use 1/30s (see the juvenile Common Grackle?) if light is an enemy.
I do think your images are underexposed as well, I tend to be on the underexposed side with mine as well.
If you are saying all of em then consider adjusting brightness of your monitor.
--
Apologies if my lack of photographic knowledge is catching.
-=[ Joms ]=-
 
I hope your version is on the left Joms.
--
Apologies if my lack of photographic knowledge is catching.
He's only got to reduce the contrast if he wants to lighten the head. The thing is when you look at a great tit you don't see any detail, they are known for their black cap.



Now if the conditions are poor as in the picture below you just use fill flash, perhaps you should have done this with your birds as they were in the shade.

I'm not going to keep on as shooting birds is not one of my strong points, I only took these to compare with my S100FS.

Paul.

 
If you are saying all of em then consider adjusting brightness of your monitor.
They are under exposed to everyone who has commented on them, yet you still insist we should all turn our brightness up because they look alright on your monitor! Come on...

Paul.
Are you using solar-powered monitor? Raise the brightness to 95 or 100 and be done with it.

Your Tit's head is under-exposed in my monitor and you fixed it. My juvenile Robin is under-exposed to your taste and you fixed it. So which one is faulty you or your monitor?

-=[ Joms ]=-
 
I hope your version is on the left Joms.
--
Apologies if my lack of photographic knowledge is catching.
He's only got to reduce the contrast if he wants to lighten the head. The thing is when you look at a great tit you don't see any detail, they are known for their black cap.

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/9213/dscf0173p.jpg

Now if the conditions are poor as in the picture below you just use fill flash, perhaps you should have done this with your birds as they were in the shade.
I will never use flash unless the bird is very rare.
I'm not going to keep on as shooting birds is not one of my strong points, I only took these to compare with my S100FS.

Paul.

http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/5851/70465249.jpg
This is the kind of detail you should be showing to us using your X-S1.

--
-=[ Joms ]=-
 
Are you using solar-powered monitor? Raise the brightness to 95 or 100 and be done with it.
Its been calibrated, I'm not going turn up the brightness just to view your images. :P
Your Tit's head is under-exposed in my monitor and you fixed it. My juvenile Robin is under-exposed to your taste and you fixed it. So which one is faulty you or your monitor?
The whole scene in your pictures is under exposed not just one tiny part of them.

Paul.
 
Today I tried ny new Fuji HS30 for birds sitting and in flight. I found image quality v good . Sitting bird is easy but in flight with EVF very difficult or impossible. Tracking and keeping bird in viewfinder while it is flying is not possible because of slow refresh rate of EVF and slide show effect.

Though some people write in other thread of Sony that EVF is Equal to OVF, but I cant agree. I may be wrong.
see this =

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1037&message=41778379&changemode=1
--
birdsofindia.com
landscapesofindia.com
truthisuniversal.com
THAKUR DALIP SINGH
 
Today I tried ny new Fuji HS30 for birds sitting and in flight. I found image quality v good .
Good to hear that.
Sitting bird is easy but in flight with EVF very difficult or impossible. Tracking and keeping bird in viewfinder while it is flying is not possible because of slow refresh rate of EVF and slide show effect.
You can adjust the refresh rate of HS30 EVF to 50fps but still there is a discrepancy between EVF and LCD with regards to framing. I find HS30's EVF and speed a significant leap compared to HS10 with regards to BIF so I don't think it is impossible. In fact it is far better than any toyzoom cameras out there.

Btw, I tracked a flying tree swallow yesterday. That critter is too fast but still I was able to capture him in the frame though in a wider FL. Just enable burst shots =D
Though some people write in other thread of Sony that EVF is Equal to OVF, but I cant agree. I may be wrong.
OVF is still superior to EVF when it comes to tracking.
see this =

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1037&message=41778379&changemode=1
--
birdsofindia.com
landscapesofindia.com
truthisuniversal.com
THAKUR DALIP SINGH
--
-=[ Joms ]=-
 
Hi all,

While I don't mean to diminish the entertainment value of this thread, I would like to offer a few hopefully constructive comments...

First, I believe that most if not all of the shots in the opening posts (as well as Joms' previously posted HS30 images) were generally under-exposed and several were taken with insufficient shutter speeds to hope for solid image stabilization hand-held. This surely has contributed to the seriously high noise levels and motion blur in many of them. Birding in poor light is sure not easy, especially with a compact superzoom. A few of them taken in marginally better light do actually display pretty good captured detail considering they're 8mp, but the heavy noise in them makes that detail essentially unrecoverable. "Cleaning up the backgrounds" (even if done well) can do nothing to improve the gritty noise damage on the birds themselves, and really only draws more attention to it. I don't know of any NR post-process which could adequately reduce the noise in these shots without smearing the detail too.

Secondly, I think that whatever efforts have been made to develop these RAW files has largely failed to improve the finished IQ, and likely has produced less desirable results than might be achieved by in-camera jpeg processing. While I've not yet seen really good high-resolution detail produced by the HS30 in any mode, there have been several well-exposed HS30 images posted by others which displayed quite nicely, with decently clean detail at under 2mp... And they were all jpegs, both processed ones and sooc ones. Perhaps Kim or someone with EXR/RAW expertise could offer Joms some help here.

Lastly, I just have to say that despite any preference of form-factor or prejudice of brand... the best bird images Joms posted from his SX40 were of generally much better quality than anything I've seen so far from his HS30

Anyway, it seems we read this over and over in the forum... and not just from Joms:

"I love this camera... the way it feels in my hands... it's fast and responsive... it has great build quality". "It's a serious camera, not a toy".

... "Only the IQ is a bit disappointing... The images are soft, ...the images are noisy, never seem sharp enough, ...watercolor effect, ...the details are smeared even at base ISO... etc, etc".


And yet, those who choose these models and defend them against every obvious objection to their output quality, are repulsed by all the "toyzooms" and plastic body alternatives, ... image quality simply notwithstanding.





I'm a Fuji user too and have no desire to bash the brand. I'm tempted to say that Fuji should wake up... but maybe they know what they're doing, and IQ just isn't the thru$t of that. The HS30 has the feature-set and form factor to make it seem an obvious candidate for birders and wildlife shooters, and if anyone posts outstanding bird or wildlife photos taken with it I'll be very interested to see them and learn how they shot them. I'm still pretty sure we've not seen its best quality yet. But viewing these images and reading the faint praise for it here, does make me wonder.

I hope these candid observations might help some HS30 users to tame the beast.

No flames intended,

Kenn

--
Kenn & Temple - Backyard Birders in St.Louis, MO USA
http://kenn3d.smugmug.com
 
Hi all,

While I don't mean to diminish the entertainment value of this thread, I would like to offer a few hopefully constructive comments...

First, I believe that most if not all of the shots in the opening posts (as well as Joms' previously posted HS30 images) were generally under-exposed and several were taken with insufficient shutter speeds to hope for solid image stabilization hand-held. This surely has contributed to the seriously high noise levels and motion blur in many of them. Birding in poor light is sure not easy, especially with a compact superzoom. A few of them taken in marginally better light do actually display pretty good captured detail considering they're 8mp, but the heavy noise in them makes that detail essentially unrecoverable. "Cleaning up the backgrounds" (even if done well) can do nothing to improve the gritty noise damage on the birds themselves, and really only draws more attention to it. I don't know of any NR post-process which could adequately reduce the noise in these shots without smearing the detail too.

Secondly, I think that whatever efforts have been made to develop these RAW files has largely failed to improve the finished IQ, and likely has produced less desirable results than might be achieved by in-camera jpeg processing. While I've not yet seen really good high-resolution detail produced by the HS30 in any mode, there have been several well-exposed HS30 images posted by others which displayed quite nicely, with decently clean detail at under 2mp... And they were all jpegs, both processed ones and sooc ones. Perhaps Kim or someone with EXR/RAW expertise could offer Joms some help here.

Lastly, I just have to say that despite any preference of form-factor or prejudice of brand... the best bird images Joms posted from his SX40 were of generally much better quality than anything I've seen so far from his HS30

Anyway, it seems we read this over and over in the forum... and not just from Joms:

"I love this camera... the way it feels in my hands... it's fast and responsive... it has great build quality". "It's a serious camera, not a toy".

... "Only the IQ is a bit disappointing... The images are soft, ...the images are noisy, never seem sharp enough, ...watercolor effect, ...the details are smeared even at base ISO... etc, etc".


And yet, those who choose these models and defend them against every obvious objection to their output quality, are repulsed by all the "toyzooms" and plastic body alternatives, ... image quality simply notwithstanding.
http://kenn3d.smugmug.com/photos/i-5PjDqWN/0/X3/i-5PjDqWN-X3.jpg
It's obvious that you always shot you bird in your custom open-area perching trunk in almost always ideal lighting so why compare my catbird in a shade?
Detail is good on the body but I see smearing on the head part of the chickadee?

Again in ideal light.
I'm a Fuji user too and have no desire to bash the brand. I'm tempted to say that Fuji should wake up... but maybe they know what they're doing, and IQ just isn't the thru$t of that. The HS30 has the feature-set and form factor to make it seem an obvious candidate for birders and wildlife shooters, and if anyone posts outstanding bird or wildlife photos taken with it I'll be very interested to see them and learn how they shot them. I'm still pretty sure we've not seen its best quality yet. But viewing these images and reading the faint praise for it here, does make me wonder.

I hope these candid observations might help some HS30 users to tame the beast.

No flames intended,

Kenn
I will show you a more realistic comparison (at least for me coz I took these shots).
--
Kenn & Temple - Backyard Birders in St.Louis, MO USA
http://kenn3d.smugmug.com
--
-=[ Joms ]=-
 
Joms, you got some excellent advice and fantastic "constructive" criticism. Put your pride aside for one moment.
--
Apologies if my lack of photographic knowledge is catching.
 
Obviously the bird on the left has better detail but the light is very different so this comparison means little.
--
Apologies if my lack of photographic knowledge is catching.
 

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