T4i grossly overpriced at $950?

MikeFromMesa · Jun 8, 2012

IcyVeins said:
This camera is not for people who are invested in lenses.

There is no indication that the t4i will not work perfectly with all of the existing EF and EF-S lenses. Further, as I understand it, the new STM lenses are specifically designed to be silent when focusing and to accommodate full-time auto focus. That does not mean that these lenses will also not work with existing Canon DSLRs.

In short, to the best of my knowledge, the STM lenses are compatible with existing DSLRs, including those that do not support full-time auto focus (which is all of them) and the t4i is compatible with all of the existing lenses. Based on that I believe that your statement about this camera not being for people who are invested in lenses is wrong.

IcyVeins · Jun 8, 2012

MikeFromMesa said:
MikeFromMesa said:

This camera is not for people who are invested in lenses.

Click to expand...

There is no indication that the t4i will not work perfectly with all of the existing EF and EF-S lenses. Further, as I understand it, the new STM lenses are specifically designed to be silent when focusing and to accommodate full-time auto focus. That does not mean that these lenses will also not work with existing Canon DSLRs.

In short, to the best of my knowledge, the STM lenses are compatible with existing DSLRs, including those that do not support full-time auto focus (which is all of them) and the t4i is compatible with all of the existing lenses. Based on that I believe that your statement about this camera not being for people who are invested in lenses is wrong.

You are missing the point completely, if you are invested in lenses then you already have a camera that is better than this camera, probably 7D or one of the 5Ds. If you have a few thousand dollars worth of lenses and are skimping on an $850 camera then you're just plain doing it wrong. The reason Canon made those new lenses and announced them with the T4i is because almost everybody who will buy the camera either has very little or no lenses already.

plantdoc · Jun 8, 2012

Video is the one area where significant improvements can be made... if you're interested in video and can find a willing audience to watch your videos. Editing video clips into movies with editing, transitions, titles, music etc is quite time consuming and requires a powerful PC and good software. For example, if you shoot 60 minutes of video on a vacation, you'll need spend 60 minutes just watching the raw video before you even decide what to use and begin editing. Creating a 15 minute movie out of the raw video can slow a process. There is also a confusing array of file formats, compression types, etc. Rewarding, but I see few people moving in this direction. Just my .02

Greg

photosen · Jun 9, 2012

It's a major update and the Rebel series has always been just south of $1,000.

SterlingFX · Jun 9, 2012

Midwest said:
Flying Fish said:

Does it have better AF? The specs for the T4i make its AF sound at least as good as the 60D's, if not better.

Click to expand...

Hmm, possibly not.

No doubt the T4i has really closed some gaps with the XXD series, but that series is still the rather more professional / heavier duty product line. For my money the T4i or even the T3i or T2i would be a better value - I doubt I'd wear out the shutter of the Rebel series before I decided to upgrade in a few years anyhow.

So I may well have misspoken on the autofocus. It will be interesting to see how all the specs compare side by side.

It actually has a higher end center cross point than the 7D. Its called a dual cross point. Basically, one cross point laying diagonally over another. Other than that, it is identical to the 60D in Autofocus. The faster processor however, should make it a little faster in finding the focus.

MikeFromMesa · Jun 9, 2012

IcyVeins said:
You are missing the point completely, if you are invested in lenses then you already have a camera that is better than this camera, probably 7D or one of the 5Ds. If you have a few thousand dollars worth of lenses and are skimping on an $850 camera then you're just plain doing it wrong. The reason Canon made those new lenses and announced them with the T4i is because almost everybody who will buy the camera either has very little or no lenses already.

You are right when you say I missed the point you were making completely, but I think you are wrong about who may be buying this camera. Yes, for some this will be their first DSLR and they are not invested in glass.

But others will be trading up from earlier Canon DSLRs like the t1i or t2i and they may well be invested in glass. Still others will be buying this for friends or members of their family thinking that they can share their existing lenses with their husband, wife, son, daughter or other relative/friend. Still others will be buying this as a second body for their existing crop or full-frame camera and they will already be invested in glass.

I think that those buying this camera that are not invested in glass will be a minority and most of those buying this camera will already be invested in glass.

IcyVeins · Jun 9, 2012

MikeFromMesa said:
MikeFromMesa said:

You are missing the point completely, if you are invested in lenses then you already have a camera that is better than this camera, probably 7D or one of the 5Ds. If you have a few thousand dollars worth of lenses and are skimping on an $850 camera then you're just plain doing it wrong. The reason Canon made those new lenses and announced them with the T4i is because almost everybody who will buy the camera either has very little or no lenses already.

Click to expand...

You are right when you say I missed the point you were making completely, but I think you are wrong about who may be buying this camera. Yes, for some this will be their first DSLR and they are not invested in glass.

But others will be trading up from earlier Canon DSLRs like the t1i or t2i and they may well be invested in glass. Still others will be buying this for friends or members of their family thinking that they can share their existing lenses with their husband, wife, son, daughter or other relative/friend. Still others will be buying this as a second body for their existing crop or full-frame camera and they will already be invested in glass.

I think that those buying this camera that are not invested in glass will be a minority and most of those buying this camera will already be invested in glass.

You may think that but the vast majority of DSLR owners never own more than one or two lenses. That's why cameras are refreshed every year and new lenses are coming slower and slower, and more often than not the new lenses are announced with the new camera for the benefit of that large majority of people who only have one or two.

AmateurSnaps · Jun 9, 2012

IcyVeins said:
In other words, people buying Canon's self-proclaimed "beginner friendly" camera, the T4i. This camera is not for people who are invested in lenses. In fact to make that crystal clear they even announced those two new lenses specifically designed to work with this new camera.

EF and EF-s lenses work on this camera as well as any other canon. Not sure whats so difficult to understand.

IcyVeins · Jun 9, 2012

AmateurSnaps said:
IcyVeins said:

In other words, people buying Canon's self-proclaimed "beginner friendly" camera, the T4i. This camera is not for people who are invested in lenses. In fact to make that crystal clear they even announced those two new lenses specifically designed to work with this new camera.

Click to expand...

EF and EF-s lenses work on this camera as well as any other canon. Not sure whats so difficult to understand.

I also don't know what is so difficult to understand. I said that they designed the two new lenses specifically to work with the nee camera, which is a fact. I said nothing about older lenses or older cameras.

MikeFromMesa · Jun 9, 2012

IcyVeins said:
the vast majority of DSLR owners never own more than one or two lenses

Perhaps this is right but I, for one, would like to see some reason to believe that. Is there a study you can point to? Or sales figures of some type?

And, whatever the actual number of lenses that are owned, what are the value of those lenses. If someone has two lenses and they are something like the Canon 15-85 and the Canon 70-200L then we are still talking about being invested in glass. Neither of those lenses are inexpensive.

MAC · Jun 9, 2012

SterlingFX said:
Midwest said:

Flying Fish said:

Does it have better AF? The specs for the T4i make its AF sound at least as good as the 60D's, if not better.

Click to expand...

Hmm, possibly not.

No doubt the T4i has really closed some gaps with the XXD series, but that series is still the rather more professional / heavier duty product line. For my money the T4i or even the T3i or T2i would be a better value - I doubt I'd wear out the shutter of the Rebel series before I decided to upgrade in a few years anyhow.

So I may well have misspoken on the autofocus. It will be interesting to see how all the specs compare side by side.

Click to expand...

It actually has a higher end center cross point than the 7D. Its called a dual cross point. Basically, one cross point laying diagonally over another. Other than that, it is identical to the 60D in Autofocus. The faster processor however, should make it a little faster in finding the focus.

the buffer of the T4i is only thing that may hold me back. my 60d handles double the load

roger55 · Jun 9, 2012

I've ordered a T4i and 18-135 IS STM.

I'm invested in lenses. Obviously not like pro would but more like an average hobbyist does.

I've got a Sigma 10-20, Sigma 50-500, Sigma 55-200, Canon 50mm 1.8 and a Canon 17-85IS.

I most likely will putting my 17-85IS up for sale (something I hadn't considered doing until Friday's announcement).

I don't envision me shooting video (and needing AF) with anything other than a "walk-around" lens.

I think there will be a lot of people out there like me that will be invested in Canon lenses that will be interested in the T4i. Probably not pros though. But, the pros will be interested in STM lenses when the higher-end cameras come out with AF that works with Video.

MikeFromMesa · Jun 9, 2012

In my case I am thinking about the t4i for my wife. She would be moving up from a point-and-shoot and her main concern was that any DSLR be light enough to not bother her. The t4i certainly qualifies, especially with the 18-55 that comes as part of the kit.

I was specifically thinking about Canon because I already have a fair number of lenses

Sigma 10-20,
Sigma 17-70
Canon 28-135 IS USM
Canon 50 f/1.8
Canon 70-300 DO
Canon 100-400

All of those will work with the t4i and most of them will work with a 5D3. The t4i is for my wife but it could also serve as a backup body for me.

meland · Jun 10, 2012

MikeFromMesa said:
MikeFromMesa said:

the vast majority of DSLR owners never own more than one or two lenses

Click to expand...

Perhaps this is right but I, for one, would like to see some reason to believe that. Is there a study you can point to? Or sales figures of some type?

And, whatever the actual number of lenses that are owned, what are the value of those lenses. If someone has two lenses and they are something like the Canon 15-85 and the Canon 70-200L then we are still talking about being invested in glass. Neither of those lenses are inexpensive.

It is correct for the majority of SLR owners but you would need to have access to the manufacturer's own customer data to validate it. Professionals and enthusiasts tend to own more of course.

However over 2.7 times the quantity of bodies compared with lenses were sold in 2011 . You may be able to draw some conclusions from that.

david01234 · Jun 10, 2012

I am glad about the feature set of the 4Ti and the pancake STM lens:
1. Continuous AF during video recording.
2. All cross-type AF points

This bodes well for the feature set of the successors to the 60D and the 7D. Looks like Canon will be releasing interesting products this year.

I currently use a 5D2 with a 24-105 as my walk-through lens, but a 4ti with a 40mm pancake lens is an attractive and handy alternative.

robert1955 · Jun 10, 2012

Are you sure of that?

That would mean [roughly] all dslr's sold were replacements. Maybe the number includes camera+lens kits?

meland said:
However over 2.7 times the quantity of bodies compared with lenses were sold in 2011 . You may be able to draw some conclusions from that.

szlevi · Jun 10, 2012

...and I'm coming from an old Rebel XT so a T4i supposed to be impressive for me...

Canon's stupid and arrogant pricing tactics will damage their brand badly, you'll see next year when the mirrorless fever reaches the US (it's barely started yet.)

IcyVeins said:
Right now on ebay the going rate for a new T3i + lens is $670 with one seller offering $660. I expect the price to drop to $650 or lower once the T4i starts flooding the market. With that being said, is there any rational justification for spending an extra $300 on the T4i when they barely updated anything except some beginner modes and better AF for video? It looks like they started cheating with NR in RAW as well in order to make image quality look better. I just don't see anything close to $300 worth of improvements and it appears that for now this camera is for the wannabe gearheads who think they're getting the latest technology or something and paying a big premium for it.

--

http://instagr.am/p/JvSMWFBYyl
(Now you cannot say I don't have a single pic!

)

MikeFromMesa · Jun 10, 2012

Member said:
However over 2.7 times the quantity of bodies compared with lenses were sold in 2011 . You may be able to draw some conclusions from that.

That is a very interesting figure.

If the number of bodies really was 2.7 times the number of lenses it means that people are buying bodies without lenses. Since they are probably not buying them as paper weights the only real assumptions are that they already have lenses and are buying second (or third) bodies or trading up from an earlier DSLR. In either case that would mean that they are already invested in lenses.

What other reason would there be to buy a body without a lens unless you already had the lenses?

MikeFromMesa · Jun 10, 2012

I guess I don't understand your statement. Since the Oly is priced considerably higher than the 650D why do you think it (the Canon) is priced "laughably" high? Do you consider the Oly to be a better camera?

I am honestly asking since I don't have an OM-D. The last Oly camera I bought was some years ago and it was a bridge camera of sorts (SP-510). It was actually a nice point-and-shoot so the Oly OM-D may well be a very good camera. I just don't know. But that still leaves me wondering why you think the Canon is "laughably" over-priced.

meland · Jun 10, 2012

robert1955 said:
That would mean [roughly] all dslr's sold were replacements. Maybe the number includes camera+lens kits?

meland said:

However over 2.7 times the quantity of bodies compared with lenses were sold in 2011 . You may be able to draw some conclusions from that.

Click to expand...

Yes , sure.

Total 2011 Production Figures

Lenses 5,826,753
Bodies 15,742,039

T4i grossly overpriced at $950?

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