5D-III Dark focus point - call Canon

Call your national Canon company and complain ..... WHY: see below...

The 5D-III focus system is really quite excellent. However, if you are using AI-SERVO when working with dark backgrounds (such a modern dance), dark subjects (due to costume, etc), it is very difficult to see the focus point in use. In single shot, spot focus mode, at least the focus point blinks when you half-press the shutter button or press AF-ON. The same blink DOES NOT occur when half-pressing the shutter button or pressing the AF-ON button in AI-SERVO. Of course, the manual does document that "this is the way it is supposed to work".

If you use the 5D-II and 1D-III or 1D-IV in AI-SERVO mode, pressing the button at least blinks the chosen focus point on and off in bright red. The 1D-IV goes one step further and leaves the focus point bright for 5 seconds. At least with these cameras, you can clearly know the exact placement of the focus point no matter what the colour is of background or subject. I can see no reason why Canon departed from this convention when implementing the 5D-III.

It seems to me that ALL 5d-III users should want some better visual clues when shooting the otherwise excellent camera in difficult lighting/subject condition. I suggest that everyone call your national Canon office and strongly request that AI-SERVO mode should blink on/off the red point indicator whenever the shutter is half pressed or the AF-ON button is pressed. This is consistent with the action in Single Shot mode and is also consistent with the action of high end Canon cameras for the past 10 years.

To me, this should be a trivial firmware change since button detection and focus point blinking are already implemented for single shot - but Canon will not do anything about it unless a fairly large number of people complain.
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tony
http://www.tphoto.ca

I’ve read that it’s not a trivial change because illuminating the screen would alter the exposure. However, Canon is said to already be working on some way around this.

Personally, I don’t see a problem because my 7D also functions this way, but Canon does already seem to be trying to address concerns, so no need to flood their offices with phone calls.

No need to illuminate the entire screen - simply flash the focus point as is done when you shoot single frame. If it works in single frame mode, it can equally, without problem, work when you press the shutter/af-on button.
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tony
http://www.tphoto.ca

That’s not what Canon has reportedly said, and the fact that it doesn’t work that way, even in the 7D, is evidence. Still, they are trying for a solution, so I don’t see the purpose of asking people to call.

Apparently it has something to do with the timing and not wanting to flash the light at a time when it would interfere. One-shot mode locks the settings, presumably before the flash of light. Perhaps that’s the difference.

I'd suggest you'd send an email here:

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/support/professional/professional_cameras/eos_digital_slr_cameras/eos_5d_mark_iii/form_display/support_by_email?WT.mc_id=C126149

There is a loooooong thread on Fred Miranda, it's really a bad implementation of the viewfinder illumination and it rally make sme mad every time I pick this dang camera up!

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1099852/0?keyword=viewfinder,illumination#10492920

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Alfonso Bresciani
==================
http://nolaPIC.com/
http://www.pompo.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pompob/

Alfonso Bresciani said:

There is a loooooong thread on Fred Miranda, it's really a bad implementation of the viewfinder illumination and it rally make sme mad every time I pick this dang camera up!

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1099852/0?keyword=viewfinder,illumination#10492920

Click to expand...

Thanks for this link. Very interesting indeed and more awkward things were revealed that I did not know about - and confirms my concerns about the general issue of focus point visibility.

I shoot a lot of dark venues of theatre and dance performance. The fact that the viewfinder red illumination that happens when you use one-shot mode or if you use the focus point selector right button is a major bummer. It sends out a red beam of light THROUGH THE LENS TOWARD THE SUBJECT. The photographer, in this case, is near a stage and is effectively "black" as far as the on-stage performers are concerned. Now, when I press the shutter, a little red beacon comes from the camera and will be definitely visible by the on-stage performers as a flash of red.

This is easily seen - shoot yourself in a mirror and watch your lens turn red Well so what, you might say. But. If you are shooting a performance venue or even a wedding, the performers will see this silly red spot coming from the camera and that is a distraction that should not happen.

I am truly surprised that Canon chose the Liquid Crystal viewfinder display which seems to be the cause of all of these problems.

Apparently, the same issue will be seen on the 1DX. That puts me in the position of not wanting a 1DX for my work - a second 1D-IV will be much more appropriate.
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tony
http://www.tphoto.ca

tony field said:

I am truly surprised that Canon chose the Liquid Crystal viewfinder display which seems to be the cause of all of these problems.

Click to expand...

Canon road-tested it in the 7D for several years, and the 60D might even have the same screen. It appears they received nothing but positive feedback until the 5D3. Fortunately, they appear to be working toward a solution.

exactly the reason why I might not get the 1DX as well, 'll wait for next round of cameras and se if they'll have the old VF...

tony field said:

Alfonso Bresciani said:

There is a loooooong thread on Fred Miranda, it's really a bad implementation of the viewfinder illumination and it rally make sme mad every time I pick this dang camera up!

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1099852/0?keyword=viewfinder,illumination#10492920

Click to expand...

Thanks for this link. Very interesting indeed and more awkward things were revealed that I did not know about - and confirms my concerns about the general issue of focus point visibility.

I shoot a lot of dark venues of theatre and dance performance. The fact that the viewfinder red illumination that happens when you use one-shot mode or if you use the focus point selector right button is a major bummer. It sends out a red beam of light THROUGH THE LENS TOWARD THE SUBJECT. The photographer, in this case, is near a stage and is effectively "black" as far as the on-stage performers are concerned. Now, when I press the shutter, a little red beacon comes from the camera and will be definitely visible by the on-stage performers as a flash of red.

This is easily seen - shoot yourself in a mirror and watch your lens turn red Well so what, you might say. But. If you are shooting a performance venue or even a wedding, the performers will see this silly red spot coming from the camera and that is a distraction that should not happen.

I am truly surprised that Canon chose the Liquid Crystal viewfinder display which seems to be the cause of all of these problems.

Apparently, the same issue will be seen on the 1DX. That puts me in the position of not wanting a 1DX for my work - a second 1D-IV will be much more appropriate.
--
tony
http://www.tphoto.ca

Click to expand...

--
Alfonso Bresciani
==================
http://nolaPIC.com/
http://www.pompo.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pompob/

Phil Hill said:

tony field said:

I am truly surprised that Canon chose the Liquid Crystal viewfinder display which seems to be the cause of all of these problems.

Click to expand...

Canon road-tested it in the 7D for several years, and the 60D might even have the same screen. It appears they received nothing but positive feedback until the 5D3. Fortunately, they appear to be working toward a solution.

Click to expand...

That is a testament to the nature of the 7D photographers IMHO who, it seems, are not very fussy about how a camera should work.

I seriously doubt that Canon can fix the issue - they might be able to make some very minor changes to reduce the damage but certainly cannot fix the fundamental design of the system.

As Douglas Adams said (in paraphrase)

Canon's Galaxy-wide success is founded on camera design - their fundamental design flaws are completely hidden by their superficial design flaws

--
tony
http://www.tphoto.ca

tony field said:

That is a testament to the nature of the 7D photographers IMHO who, it seems, are not very fussy about how a camera should work.

Click to expand...

Well, it doesn’t seem to have seriously harmed their ability to get the shots.

Given a choice between "fussy" and doing what it takes, I think the nod goes to talent. Still, I think it'll be great if Canon can implement a good fix. It pays to listen to your customers, and Canon has apparently been listening.

Phil Hill said:

tony field said:

That is a testament to the nature of the 7D photographers IMHO who, it seems, are not very fussy about how a camera should work.

Click to expand...

Well, it doesn’t seem to have seriously harmed their ability to get the shots.

Click to expand...

That completely depends upon what and how they are shooting - if they cannot see the focus points for what ever reason, they will have one devil of a time to know what they are focusing on. I have been in this situation already and have just started to work with the camera. I am dreading to find other situations where the simple act of appropriate focusing is now difficult with the 5D-III.

Phil Hill said:

Given a choice between "fussy" and doing what it takes, I think the nod goes to talent. Still, I think it'll be great if Canon can implement a good fix. It pays to listen to your customers, and Canon has apparently been listening.

Click to expand...

Yes, talent goes a long way to getting around camera issues. Since I only have about 700,000 images on digital, guess I need more practice to develop the talent.

As I said before, the LCD design is entrenched into the camera - only small workarounds can be made since this design forces light into the pentaprism where the metering system resides - you cannot project information onto the ground glass while simultaneously doing a meter reading. I cannot see Canon sacrificing accurate meter readings for more visible focus points.

The only thing I can see that would be reliably done is, if the camera is in manual mode not using auto-iso, the metering is "almost" immaterial and internal projection of focus points can be done with impunity (I say "almost" because some people use manual mode but adjust the exposure by watching the exposure scale in the viewfinder).
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tony
http://www.tphoto.ca

I'm very surprised that the issue wasn't mentioned in the review here at dpreview and other sites as well. I can definitely see how it could be quite difficult to see the af points in some situations. As was the case with the 7D which was one of the reasons I sold it. I would really like to get the 5D3 but this whole af point thing has me not so sure.

BIF camera. Broad daylight, no problem. (I presume)
Eduardo

tony field said:

Phil Hill said:

tony field said:

I am truly surprised that Canon chose the Liquid Crystal viewfinder display which seems to be the cause of all of these problems.

Click to expand...

Canon road-tested it in the 7D for several years, and the 60D might even have the same screen. It appears they received nothing but positive feedback until the 5D3. Fortunately, they appear to be working toward a solution.

Click to expand...

That is a testament to the nature of the 7D photographers IMHO who, it seems, are not very fussy about how a camera should work.

I seriously doubt that Canon can fix the issue - they might be able to make some very minor changes to reduce the damage but certainly cannot fix the fundamental design of the system.

As Douglas Adams said (in paraphrase)

Canon's Galaxy-wide success is founded on camera design - their fundamental design flaws are completely hidden by their superficial design flaws

--
tony
http://www.tphoto.ca

Click to expand...

Edymagno said:

BIF camera. Broad daylight, no problem. (I presume)

Click to expand...

I don't shoot BIF, however for some birds/wildlife snaps I take in the park, the black focus points are sometimes hard to identify in the feather texture since they blend in colour/brightness. I really missed a shot a couple of days ago when shooting a lovely ballet lady when an eagle flew in front of dark pine trees - overcast bright day - I literally did not know where my focus point was in AI-Servo since the focus point blended into the dark pine tree background. If you shoot in single shot, at least the focus point blinks red. In AI-servo, it remains black and you never get any visual focus point feedback.

If you are a BIF shooter, I would certainly try the camera out before you make and final decisions. I cannot fairly comment on BIF and the various shooting conditions that might be experienced.

--
tony
http://www.tphoto.ca

I assume you use a lens 2.8 or slower = darker and more visible black AF points in bright daylight.

I also assume you use mostly center af point, thats why you have no problems with it...

Edymagno said:

tony field said:

Phil Hill said:

tony field said:

I am truly surprised that Canon chose the Liquid Crystal viewfinder display which seems to be the cause of all of these problems.

Click to expand...

Canon road-tested it in the 7D for several years, and the 60D might even have the same screen. It appears they received nothing but positive feedback until the 5D3. Fortunately, they appear to be working toward a solution.

Click to expand...

That is a testament to the nature of the 7D photographers IMHO who, it seems, are not very fussy about how a camera should work.

I seriously doubt that Canon can fix the issue - they might be able to make some very minor changes to reduce the damage but certainly cannot fix the fundamental design of the system.

As Douglas Adams said (in paraphrase)

Canon's Galaxy-wide success is founded on camera design - their fundamental design flaws are completely hidden by their superficial design flaws

--
tony
http://www.tphoto.ca

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Alfonso Bresciani
==================
http://nolaPIC.com/
http://www.pompo.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pompob/

Well, you started this thread by saying the fix would be trivial, even though you had nothing to back that up. Now you’re implying that a fix is impossible, even though Canon appears to be at least attempting to devise a fix.

Bottom line: Your OP was aimed at getting Canon to acknowledge and address the issue, which they seem to be doing. Why not allow some time for this to play out instead of repeating your complaints and casting aspersions on those that have managed to get good shots in spite of the issue?

jcgraphics77 said:

As was the case with the 7D which was one of the reasons I sold it. I would really like to get the 5D3 but this whole af point thing has me not so sure.

Click to expand...

Seems a no-brainer. If you sold a 7D because of this then why would you even be considering a 5D3 before canon "fixes" it (assuming they can)?

Most definitely I will wait and see what happens with the next firmware. The main reason I sold the 7D was to go full frame for low light ability. I was hoping the new 5D wouldn't have this same af issue as the 7D. But some have said that the af is so good that visual confirmation of lock is not necessary in single shot mode. Which is good because I can't have my subjects distracted and bothered by the big red lens barrel light coming straight at them like some kind of sniper. Not good. I was very surprised when I saw the you tube video of this. I don't think that can be fixed with firmware. Anyway, if the black af points are going to be dim with fast prime lenses then that might be a problem.

There is an AF confirmation light, but it's at the bottom right of the viewfinder, in the status area.