Full Frame on the Cheap: 1DsII vs 5D Classic

Alan Owen Humphreys · Jun 6, 2012

I have been using the 1DsII as my primary camera for 3 years on a near-daily basis (I am a scientist that uses the camera for technical images). I find that in terms of image quality, DR and fliexibility of RAW files, it more than holds it's own to the more modern cameras that I have been using.

Things that I love about the camera:
Build quality
Weatherproofing
Reliability
Bright viewfinder
Dual camera slots
Autofocus
Built in grip for portrait alignment
Battery life

The menu is really not a problem once you get used to it. For me, the main drawback is the amount of noise at high iso (above 1200), but if you are shooting on a tripod this is not a problem. The small screen and lack of Liveview for TSE lenses is also a pain, although one can work around this with an angle finder.

I live in Boston, so if you'd like to meet up and try this camera then PM me. I might be selling my camera soon as I am thinking about upgrading to the 1DX for high ISO work.

Alan Humphreys

qianp2k · Jun 6, 2012

xenon-mkd said:
You can buy the D700, goes for $1200 or about used.

Positive on the Nikon end are the new 28mm 1.8 ($700), 50mm 1.8 ($200), $85mm 1.8 ($500)?

Canon also have all these comparable lenses and sometime are cheaper.

xenon-mkd said:
It's a much better option than the 5d Mk1

Not really. I heard many said 5Dc still generate more pleasing photos.

xenon-mkd said:
But if you do architectural photography then it's 5d MK1 + some TS lenses.

Agreed. Canon TS-E lenses (however they are very expensive) are the best.

xenon-mkd said:
D700 has much much better high ISO performance than the 5d MK1,

Not true, only slightly better at ISO 1600/3200 that you can check in DPR and IR lab samples. But at ISO 800 and below 5Dc is better, sharper with better color rendition to my eyes. 5Dc also has much better skin tone than D700 in portraiture.

xenon-mkd said:
has no problems with mirror breaking/falling off, no zealous dust in the VF prism (my 5d mk1 is full with dust and can't be cleaned, the dust is in the prism area), and much better build and AF and metering.

Canon provides free fix for mirror-off issue even before ever happens to your copy. Sure dust is annoying but can be cleaned.

xenon-mkd said:
Shop around or save up for the D700, that's your best bet atm.

D700 costs double than 5Dc with no better IQ. What's point?

xenon-mkd said:
Being a Canon forum I know people wil disagree, but use the Nikon forums and ask there as well. I own both systems and the 5d MK1 with grip but it's old by today's standards when it comes to it's high iso performance (and you mentioned you like night shots)

True 5Dc is old but still generates better IQ than D700, period.

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Faintandfuzzy · Jun 6, 2012

xenon-mkd said:
You can buy the D700, goes for $1200 or about used.

I haven't seen any for $1200. They seem to be fetching $1600+

xenon-mkd said:
Positive on the Nikon end are the new 28mm 1.8 ($700), 50mm 1.8 ($200), $85mm 1.8 ($500)?

Good lenses....but I have the F1.4 series of the 35, 50 and 85 and they are incredible lenses as well....but way more spendy ;-)

xenon-mkd said:
It's a much better option than the 5d Mk1

Depends if cost is an issue. The D700 used currently goes for nearly double the 5D. That said, the D700 has a good 2 stops lower noise, better dynamic range, higher frame rate, far superior LCD, AF that leaves the 5D in the dust, etc, etc.

xenon-mkd said:
But if you do architectural photography then it's 5d MK1 + some TS lenses.

Nikon has T/S lenses as well.

xenon-mkd said:
D700 has much much better high ISO performance than the 5d MK1, has no problems with mirror breaking/falling off, no zealous dust in the VF prism (my 5d mk1 is full with dust and can't be cleaned, the dust is in the prism area), and much better build and AF and metering.

Agreed.

xenon-mkd said:
Shop around or save up for the D700, that's your best bet atm.

Being a Canon forum I know people wil disagree, but use the Nikon forums and ask there as well. I own both systems and the 5d MK1 with grip but it's old by today's standards when it comes to it's high iso performance (and you mentioned you like night shots)

I used to have a 1Ds2 that was used for wedding and portraiture work. In my opinion, it was superior to the 5D in every single way. There is some silly talk here about "magic" with the 5D. The magic was that with Raw convertors of the day, the 5D had color that came very good directly from the raw with no profiling. Those that understand how to profile a camera understand that the same can be done with any camera. That's why you find threads where people post sames from a number of FF bodies and challenge people to pick out the "classic" "magic" color and skintones of the 5D.....and no one can with anything better than a 50/50 margin...in other words....guessing.

As long as people understand the limitation of the old 5D, it can be a great bargain. But any misconceptions that it's better than the D700 in any way are just that....misconceptions.

Faintandfuzzy · Jun 6, 2012

Michelle Frattaroli said:
I am a photography student in Boston who does most of her work with a 4x5 view camera, shooting landscape and urban night scenes. But I'm looking to pick up a full-frame digital to (a) augment my personal work and (b) to have a camera I can actually find employment with (being broke isn't good when color film is $3/sheet). These snazzy new D800E's and 5DIII's are all fine and dandy if your toilet paper is made of money (don't take that personally, I'm just jealous), but they're way outside of my reach.

I believe I'll be able to afford one of the cameras mentioned, a 1Ds Mk II or a 5D Mk I. I'll grab a few fast prime (probably a 35 and an 85) and a Metz/Vivitar flash or two and be off.

But I'm a bit nervous. I know these cameras were kings in their day, but the technology is changing so fast I'm not sure if they can be taken seriously anymore. I'm hesitant to invest $1500~ in what will turn out to be a relic.

So, my question is twofold

(a) Should I be concerned about the age of these cameras? Would I be better off investing in a newer, small sensor camera?

I'd be concerned about the age of the 5D....not the 1Ds2. The D series are built far, far better than the 5D ever was.

Michelle Frattaroli said:
(b) How would these two cameras (or others which you may suggest) stack up against one another?

I'd look to the 1Ds2. It's no where near 4x5 quality...but it's pretty good. The build is superb. Speed of handling is great. AF and metering system blows the 5D out of the water. It's more expensive....but it's well worth it. I put on nearly 70,000 frames on mine in a few years of wedding and portraiture work. With good glass, it'll out perform the 5D.

Good luck on your search.

qianp2k · Jun 6, 2012

I have not seen D700 skin tone can match to 5Dc such as. D700 has Nikon traditional yellowish/orange skill tone that cannot be fixed thru PP easily.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1032&message=36646587

It's a myth that D700 has "much much" better high ISO. Not true at all. However 5Dc high ISOs stop at 3200. If OP only shoot most time in low ISO and on tripod this is not an issue.

D700 left and 5Dc right

D700 native base ISO is 200 while 5Dc is ISO 100 that is a big difference in landscape. 1Ds2 is better than both 5Dc and D700 in a different league but it's heavy and big. 1Ds2 has one of the best low ISOs IQ (at ISO 800 at below).

I hate to quote that guy but even a person as dumb as KR can figure which one generates better photos.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d3-d700-5d.htm

The Canon 5D excels in image quality. It's also the lightest and least expensive of these cameras. It has the sharpest pictures of these three cameras by a slight margin. If you're backpacking or shooting careful landscapes, the 5D could give superior image quality above anything from Nikon, at a bargain price.

If you want the best picture quality for landscapes and huge enlargements, the 5D is the best camera. I'm not kidding: I have 20x30" (50 x 75cm) prints here, and the 5D is clearly superior. (Then again, medium format film is superior to any of these in 20x30" prints.)

The 5D is sharper than the D3 or D700. It looks a little oversharpened on-screen compared to Nikon, but on 20x30" prints it just looks better.

qianp2k said:
xenon-mkd said:

You can buy the D700, goes for $1200 or about used.

Positive on the Nikon end are the new 28mm 1.8 ($700), 50mm 1.8 ($200), $85mm 1.8 ($500)?

Click to expand...

Canon also have all these comparable lenses and sometime are cheaper.

qianp2k said:

It's a much better option than the 5d Mk1

Click to expand...

Not really. I heard many said 5Dc still generate more pleasing photos.

qianp2k said:

But if you do architectural photography then it's 5d MK1 + some TS lenses.

Click to expand...

Agreed. Canon TS-E lenses (however they are very expensive) are the best.

qianp2k said:

D700 has much much better high ISO performance than the 5d MK1,

Click to expand...

Not true, only slightly better at ISO 1600/3200 that you can check in DPR and IR lab samples. But at ISO 800 and below 5Dc is better, sharper with better color rendition to my eyes. 5Dc also has much better skin tone than D700 in portraiture.

qianp2k said:

has no problems with mirror breaking/falling off, no zealous dust in the VF prism (my 5d mk1 is full with dust and can't be cleaned, the dust is in the prism area), and much better build and AF and metering.

Click to expand...

Canon provides free fix for mirror-off issue even before ever happens to your copy. Sure dust is annoying but can be cleaned.

qianp2k said:

Shop around or save up for the D700, that's your best bet atm.

Click to expand...

D700 costs double than 5Dc with no better IQ. What's point?

qianp2k said:

Being a Canon forum I know people wil disagree, but use the Nikon forums and ask there as well. I own both systems and the 5d MK1 with grip but it's old by today's standards when it comes to it's high iso performance (and you mentioned you like night shots)

Click to expand...

True 5Dc is old but still generates better IQ than D700, period.

--
http://qianp2k.zenfolio.com/

--
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qianp2k · Jun 6, 2012

Michelle Frattaroli said:
I am a photography student in Boston who does most of her work with a 4x5 view camera, shooting landscape and urban night scenes. But I'm looking to pick up a full-frame digital to (a) augment my personal work and (b) to have a camera I can actually find employment with (being broke isn't good when color film is $3/sheet). These snazzy new D800E's and 5DIII's are all fine and dandy if your toilet paper is made of money (don't take that personally, I'm just jealous), but they're way outside of my reach.

I believe I'll be able to afford one of the cameras mentioned, a 1Ds Mk II or a 5D Mk I. I'll grab a few fast prime (probably a 35 and an 85) and a Metz/Vivitar flash or two and be off.

But I'm a bit nervous. I know these cameras were kings in their day, but the technology is changing so fast I'm not sure if they can be taken seriously anymore. I'm hesitant to invest $1500~ in what will turn out to be a relic.

So, my question is twofold

(a) Should I be concerned about the age of these cameras? Would I be better off investing in a newer, small sensor camera?

No. Arguably the old cameras with less aggressive Digic processor and lower pixel density (larger pixels) generate a bit of more pleasing colors in some areas such as skin tone. If you mainly shoot in low ISO and use tripod in low light both cameras generate one of the best IQ that can withstand any today latest models if you don't print huge, to 30x20" print is fine.

Michelle Frattaroli said:
(b) How would these two cameras (or others which you may suggest) stack up against one another?

As someone said no much difference. 1Ds2 is better but more expensive, heavier and bigger to lug around. Don't listen to a well known 5D basher who actually never owned and experienced 5D and doubt he ever owned 1Ds2 as everything he "claimed" cannot be backed up and verified as we have not seen a single photo from that guy generated from these two cameras. He jumped into every 5D related thread is just for trolling.

--
http://qianp2k.zenfolio.com/

Schwany · Jun 6, 2012

If you're going old Canon, go with the 1DsMkII. At least it's in the ball park with pixels. The user interface is not insurmountable. You will get accustomed to it.

Otherwise, I'd say the 5DMkII. I would not get a 5D myself, but I don't believe in magic, so it's a personal problem.

None of them can take a lot of abuse in post process. Expose for your final product and you should be good to go.

qianp2k · Jun 6, 2012

Don't know how much a used 1Ds2 and 5D2 cost, but you can get a used 5Dc below $800 that still can generate amazing photos. I agree 5D2 is the best among all three if OPer can afford.

It's an amazing that 5Dc after so many years still is a hot topic such as in this relative new 150-max thread.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1032&message=41657953

Schwany said:
If you're going old Canon, go with the 1DsMkII. At least it's in the ball park with pixels. The user interface is not insurmountable. You will get accustomed to it.

Otherwise, I'd say the 5DMkII. I would not get a 5D myself, but I don't believe in magic, so it's a personal problem.

None of them can take a lot of abuse in post process. Expose for your final product and you should be good to go.

--
http://qianp2k.zenfolio.com/

Jacques Cornell · Jun 6, 2012

I haven't owned a 5D, so I can't compare. What I can tell you is that the IQ of the 1DsII is phenomenal and the thing was built to go and go and go. I'm a pro event & portrait photog, and I do landscapes for fun. I've owned Canon D60, 40D, 1D, 1Ds, 1DII, 1DsII and now a 1DIII. One thing that distinguishes the 1-series from the "prosumer" bodies is that noise reduction seems to be less aggressive and resolution seems better, even with RAW files. My lit portraits with prime lenses yield amazing detail. The 1DsII out resolves the 7D, despite the latter's 2MP "advantage". You can find a used 1DsII in good shape for around $1,600.

Oh, and one other consideration: the 1DsII's batteries fare much better in cold weather. When I was shooting on a ski slope in 10-degree weather, the borrowed 5D I tried got only about 50 frames while driving a 300mm IS lens (IS draws a fair bit of power). The 1DsII went almost all day, about 1200 frames, on one battery.

--
'No matter where you go, there you are.'

Ross Murphy · Jun 6, 2012

Get the 5D if you can find a low shutter count camera for around $800, it is a great camera, I had it and have the 5D2 and will get the 5D3 soon, the image quality is paramount with price in this case so its the best option for what your looking at.

Image Quality doesn't get dated, just the tech that makes it.

PS, don't even look at charts and graphs or pictures of brick walls.

here is one with the original 5D and the 21-105 f4 IS L

Ross
--
Image's In Light
http://rossmurphy.zenfolio.com/
http://imagesinlightnw.blogspot.com/

Clint Dunn · Jun 6, 2012

Michelle Frattaroli said:
Clint Dunn said:

Michelle Frattaroli said:

Michelle Frattaroli wrote:

I guess the real deciding factor for me is down to the grunt of the image quality - when you put your face up to one of those 20x30 prints, does either one of these cameras pull away from the other?

Thanks for your input!

Click to expand...

Hi Michelle,

While I have made large prints with both cameras I have never done a clinical test of using the same lens and shooting the same subject and then comparing prints. I suppose all things being equal the 1DS2 would likely have a slight edge in a 20x30 print, but like I mentioned prints from the 5D look fantastic too. I also think the 5D has a slightly less aggressive AA filter; the 1DS2 files require more sharpening right out of the camera.

Anyway you go both would be great cameras, and as someone else suggested the D700 was no slouch either...

Click to expand...

Do you shoot RAW? Its interesting that the more "professional" camera would have more aggressive aa.

Michelle, yes I shoot RAW for 99% of my work...that has only recently changed since buying the XPro-1 because RAW support sucks for it and the Jpegs are awesome.

Anyway, Kabe Luna's response re: AA filter being stronger on the 1DS2 is correct. Canon has a specific note on file sharpening in an addendum to their manual as many initial 1DS2 owners complained about the files being soft. I can assure you that with appropriate sharpening the 1DS2 files are awesome.
Clint
http://www.flickr.com/photos/60455482@N00/

Faintandfuzzy · Jun 6, 2012

Majikthize said:
I haven't owned a 5D, so I can't compare. What I can tell you is that the IQ of the 1DsII is phenomenal and the thing was built to go and go and go. I'm a pro event & portrait photog, and I do landscapes for fun. I've owned Canon D60, 40D, 1D, 1Ds, 1DII, 1DsII and now a 1DIII. One thing that distinguishes the 1-series from the "prosumer" bodies is that noise reduction seems to be less aggressive and resolution seems better, even with RAW files. My lit portraits with prime lenses yield amazing detail. The 1DsII out resolves the 7D, despite the latter's 2MP "advantage". You can find a used 1DsII in good shape for around $1,600.

Oh, and one other consideration: the 1DsII's batteries fare much better in cold weather. When I was shooting on a ski slope in 10-degree weather, the borrowed 5D I tried got only about 50 frames while driving a 300mm IS lens (IS draws a fair bit of power). The 1DsII went almost all day, about 1200 frames, on one battery.

The battery is a good point. I never worried about power for a 12 hour day of photographing a wedding.

Jacques Cornell said:
--
'No matter where you go, there you are.'

qianp2k · Jun 6, 2012

Majikthize said:
I haven't owned a 5D, so I can't compare. What I can tell you is that the IQ of the 1DsII is phenomenal and the thing was built to go and go and go. I'm a pro event & portrait photog, and I do landscapes for fun. I've owned Canon D60, 40D, 1D, 1Ds, 1DII, 1DsII and now a 1DIII. One thing that distinguishes the 1-series from the "prosumer" bodies is that noise reduction seems to be less aggressive and resolution seems better, even with RAW files. My lit portraits with prime lenses yield amazing detail.

True 1D/1Ds are in different league. I know my 1D3 still generates trademark creamy and smooth IQ.

Jacques Cornell said:
The 1DsII out resolves the 7D, despite the latter's 2MP "advantage". You can find a used 1DsII in good shape for around $1,600.

FF is better than any APS-C today from perspective of color rendition and tonality and high ISO. I found my 12.8mp 5Dc still outresolves my 18mp 60D in most cases. Canon 18mp APS-C has much more grains even at base ISO that effectively smear out some details.

Jacques Cornell said:
Oh, and one other consideration: the 1DsII's batteries fare much better in cold weather. When I was shooting on a ski slope in 10-degree weather, the borrowed 5D I tried got only about 50 frames while driving a 300mm IS lens (IS draws a fair bit of power). The 1DsII went almost all day, about 1200 frames, on one battery.

Absolutely 1D/1Ds are in true weather sealed. But it's bulky. My understanding is that OP is mainly for portrait and landscape so 5Dc should be fine and much lighter/smaller with half price. If OP willing spend $1600 then I'd suggest a used 5D2 that costs about the same for her needs - much better LCD, 21mp, Liveview, better high ISO and having video. Also 5D2 battery LP-E6 is the same as in 5D3/60D/7D and it's cheap so can carry additional one that is enough for entire day shooting.

Jacques Cornell said:
--
'No matter where you go, there you are.'

--
http://qianp2k.zenfolio.com/

Deorum · Jun 6, 2012

1ds2 bad lighting

Just a few sliders in LR. Not any great photo, but you get the idea.

It's ISO 400 by the way, less than ideal ISO for such extreme editings.
+ 100 Shadows, +30Blacks
+1/3 EV
-50 Highlights -50Whites, +Saturation +Vibrance

And I still wonder, why people complain for 5d3 or 5d2 which is significant better....

--
George Spyros,
http://www.georgespyros.com

Schwany · Jun 6, 2012

qianp2k said:
It's an amazing that 5Dc after so many years still is a hot topic such as in this relative new 150-max thread.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1032&message=41657953

Yes it is amazing that thread went anywhere. Quantity of responses in a thread has nothing to do with quality of content.

qianp2k · Jun 6, 2012

Most threads today having that issues mixed with many posts with very contrasty opinions. You can find virtually all those said 5Dc has no "magic" never own and experience 5Dc. Much less even touched 1Ds2. There is a known fact that a very small group of APS-C fanboys (usually very few 7D zealots) jumped into many 5D related threads despite they actually never own and experience any 5D series cameras with tons of polluted posts. This is a real problem and very annoying. By the way there are many quality content 5Dc photos posted in that thread including some from myself.

Both 5Dc and 1Ds2 are great cameras and still generate nice photos by today's standard. You can judge by what said by so many owners and by so many stunning photos. 1Ds2 is better than 5Dc in IQ if other factors are none issues. But I'd suggest 5D2 for 1Ds2 for OP's needs.

Schwany said:
qianp2k said:

It's an amazing that 5Dc after so many years still is a hot topic such as in this relative new 150-max thread.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1032&message=41657953

Click to expand...

Yes it is amazing that thread went anywhere. Quantity of responses in a thread has nothing to do with quality of content.

--
http://qianp2k.zenfolio.com/

Deorum · Jun 6, 2012

The face has blown highlights. (all sliders here are default)

1/100 f4.5 ISO 400 for the 5d image
1/250 f4 ISO 400 for the 1ds 2 image

Although the exposure was 1 stop apart, 5d image, was shot during the winter, when the sun was coming down, it was a less bright day than the first images.

And I just remembered than 1ds2 has linked spot meter to AF point, which means a better exposure overall. So yes, the exposure was better in the 1ds2 image, but that was thanks to the 1ds metering system.

Just check inside the girl's mouth, how much shadow information was pulled. The tongue become visible from completely dark. Never had i done this with 5dc
The 5d image, is blown and unrecoravable.

--
George Spyros,
http://www.georgespyros.com

qianp2k · Jun 6, 2012

Interesting. However I checked DXO test and found two cameras actually have pretty the same DR. 1Ds2 very slightly better below ISO 360 while 5Dc is slightly better above ISO 360. Anyway I found 5Dc preserves highlight clipping well that certainly is better than 60D. it's not bad at all and actually pretty good. Also 5Dc metering is not modern but still very accurate (I usually dial down -1/3 EV as 5Dc sensor is well known has 1/3 stop over-sensitivity which actually is good that I can use faster shutter).

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/%28appareil1%29/176 |0/%28brand%29/Canon/%28appareil2%29/191|0/%28brand2%29/Canon

Deorum said:
1/200 f4.5 ISO 400 for the 5d image
1/250 f4 ISO 400 for the 1ds 2 image

Shoot at similar daytime if you want to judge the sun's brightness.

Actually the burnt 5d image, should be a bit less bright day, it was during the winter.

--
George Spyros,
http://www.georgespyros.com

--
http://qianp2k.zenfolio.com/

Deorum · Jun 6, 2012

I had edited my post, before you posted this.

Exposure is not what I first wrote, check my message again please.

However, even if not so extreme, my opinion is more or less the same. That 1ds2 is more tolerant.

Sorry for the confusion, my mistake

qianp2k said:
Interesting. However I checked DXO test and found two cameras actually have pretty the same DR. 1Ds2 very slightly better below ISO 360 while 5Dc is slightly better above ISO 360. Anyway I found 5Dc preserves highlight clipping well that certainly is better than 60D. it's not bad at all and actually pretty good. Also 5Dc metering is not modern but still very accurate (I usually dial down -1/3 EV as 5Dc sensor is well known has 1/3 stop over-sensitivity which actually is good that I can use faster shutter).

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/%28appareil1%29/176 |0/%28brand%29/Canon/%28appareil2%29/191|0/%28brand2%29/Canon

Deorum said:

1/200 f4.5 ISO 400 for the 5d image
1/250 f4 ISO 400 for the 1ds 2 image

Shoot at similar daytime if you want to judge the sun's brightness.

Actually the burnt 5d image, should be a bit less bright day, it was during the winter.

--
George Spyros,
http://www.georgespyros.com

Click to expand...

--
http://qianp2k.zenfolio.com/

--
George Spyros,
http://www.georgespyros.com

Schwany · Jun 6, 2012

I probably made some wise crack in there about beans being magical too. That magical camera notion doesn't float for me. I think it's swell if it does for others, but I lost interest after running into that word in the original post. Hence, I missed all the drama and anything that might have been worth reading or looking at. I don't think any of it would have enriched my life in any significant way considering who the OP was. I already know which end of the camera the lens goes on, and where the shutter button is. What else do I need to know? he he

I don't get very wrapped up in what I own if I can help it.

Didn't meant to step on anyone's toes.

qianp2k said:
Most threads today having that issues mixed with many posts with very contrasty opinions. You can find virtually all those said 5Dc has no "magic" never own and experience 5Dc. Much less even touched 1Ds2. There is a known fact that a very small group of APS-C fanboys (usually very few 7D zealots) jumped into many 5D related threads despite they actually never own and experience any 5D series cameras with tons of polluted posts. This is a real problem and very annoying. By the way there are many quality content 5Dc photos posted in that thread including some from myself.

Both 5Dc and 1Ds2 are great cameras and still generate nice photos by today's standard. You can judge by what said by so many owners and by so many stunning photos. 1Ds2 is better than 5Dc in IQ if other factors are none issues. But I'd suggest 5D2 for 1Ds2 for OP's needs.

Schwany said:

qianp2k said:

It's an amazing that 5Dc after so many years still is a hot topic such as in this relative new 150-max thread.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1032&message=41657953

Click to expand...

Yes it is amazing that thread went anywhere. Quantity of responses in a thread has nothing to do with quality of content.

Click to expand...

--
http://qianp2k.zenfolio.com/

Full Frame on the Cheap: 1DsII vs 5D Classic

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