Nikon CLS and mixing Powered Heads

So far in my acquisitions I've gotten a Nikon SB 800 and an SB 700. I asked earlier here about positioning the lights. Now I have a few more questions about adding a 3rd flash. Not a Nikon nor a Speedlight.

I'm becoming familiar with the favored brands and types of lights here and am attracted to the Paul Buff line of equipment. Most of my strobe shooting would benefit from the portability of SB Nikons shooting through Soft Boxes on stands. But my best experiences years ago were 3-light combinations.

For the price of buying another SB 800 (love that power), I could get an Alien Bees head with about 150 WS of power. Were I ever to shoot in a larger room, the output would be a benefit. But what happens when you mix a Nikon CLS strobe with a power head?

a) do preflashes from the Nikon lights create a firestorm of pre-flashes.

b) does the CLS system of balance get overpowered by non-system light with potentially greater output.

c) what's the advantage of a powered head such as the Alien Bees type -- over a speedlight.

Shooting would be with a Nikon D7000.

a; Use all the units in Manual Mode. This way the manual flashes will not affect the ones that you are using in TTL metering.

b: Same as A

c: They have more power than the speedlights. They can be used with softboxes, umbrellas, AC power or battery power. They are heavier than Speedlights. They will not overheat, slow down, turn off or blow up like Speedlights do. There in no dedication to the camera body of their infra-red systems. The monolights or studio flash units usually have modelling lights. Sometimes the better ones cost a lot more than speedlights.

A lot of people will likely tell you that mixing speedlights and monolights is a bad idea. Personally, I'm a fan of having a couple of monolights and a couple of speedlights available. It just really keeps your options flexible.

Quantum pretty much gave you the rundown on the differences and how to set them up. I agree. If you're going to use CLS, then you really need to only use CLS capable flashes, which will limit you in choice selection.

Once you mix CLS and non-CLS flashes, just switch everything over to manual and set them manually.

Finally, you do have more choices than just an SB910 or an Alien Bees. For example, you could get a Yungnuo 565EX for a thrid of the cost of the SB910 and still maintain iTTL slave capability.

http://www.amazon.com/Yongnuo-YN-565EX-Speedlite-Flash-Nikon/dp/B006R6TUJI/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1337364670&sr=8-4

Or you could get about 5 Yungnuo YN-560II manual flashes for the cost of one SB910 and have a lot of flexibility (if you're willing to control everything manually.)

That said, ABs are good options too, and as I said, I think it is good to have options.

-Suntan

I still have a lot to learn. I posted another question about JPEG settings aimed at an eBay listing. After I got a few answers, I did my shooting and the posted the results. First time out with my D7000, 60mm G Micro and SB800/700. It got very hairy, but I had a lot of fun.

The photos were substandard. But OK by eBay standards. I certainly expected more. I posted a few of the results and one guy here on S&L Tech forum noticed that my f-stop was almost wide open. Ouch. No depth of field. With all that was going on, I was glad I even took the lens cap off. I guess the cause of that was having the Mode selected to Auto.

Here's the shot. Take a look at the data. My god I am really dangerous with a camera in my hand. And thanks for the input. I think I'll stay with SBs and learn more about the CLS system. If I can remember to take the lens cap off!

Syl Arena's book "Speedliter's Handbook" is a great book on how to use TTL flash, including using multiple TTL flash units. It is aimed specifically at Canon but 95% of the book is good for a Nikon, Sony, etc. user.

http://www.amazon.com/Speedliters-Handbook-Learning-Craft-Speedlites/dp/032171105X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1325480043&sr=8-1

Dave Hobby's Strobist blog is another good source on using flash for simple portraiture. Read through his Lighting 101 and Lighting 102 tutorials.

http://www.strobist.blogspot.com/

If you do decide to go with studio strobes then read through my User-generated article on choosing equipment for a small home studio. You will find a lot of information about equipment, not just strobes.

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/3655790149/equipment-guide-for-setting-up-a-small-home-portraitglamor-studio

Well, I studied lighting in college in film classes and then was trained by my company in Japan about portrait and product still photography. What is throwing me at the moment specifically are Nikon features. The Master (is it Command?) Mode of the D7000, and the relationship of the CLS (Creative Lighting System) capability of two Nikon Speedlights on stands.

The CLS system is mighty strong medicine. At least, so I'm told. But since it involves the mechanics of the camera and of the strobe, the company product literature for each device isn't comprehensive. The books brag about it, but don't give the user a 1,2,3 guide on how to use it. And thought CLS (and the SB-800 & SB-700 strobes) are 5 year-old technology, no one has written a 3rd party book on the subject.

In simple terms, I need a real technical guide to specific equipment, not the subject of speedlight photography.

Here's one third-party book on the matter:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Nikon-Creative-Lighting-System/dp/1933952997/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1337388695&sr=1-1

Here's a second

http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-Creative-Lighting-System-Digital/dp/0470454059/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1337388695&sr=1-6
--
'Nice pen, bet you write good stories with it.'

I'll buy the book. Help me with my first hurdle. Define Master Flash. I dread the darned pop up. It leaves that dark shadow under the lens when shooting Macro.

Here's what I don't get. Does the Master Flash have to be mounted on the Camera?
How does the camera trigger a flash w/o wires if not by a mounted flash?
Isn't there supposed to be IR signals from camera to flash?

My intention is to dump the pop up. Have one SB 800 in front to the left, an SB700 in front to the right. Can I trigger those lights without the pop-up?

This is not defined in any of the user manuals. Frustrating.

http://www.nikoncls.com/

Keep in mind that the power of light is in understanding light behavior and in learning how to modify light appropriate to your situation. You need to go right to Strobist Lighting 101 and don't just sit there and read the stuff - get off the chair and do every lesson.

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101.html

--
Don't aspire to be like someone else. Be better.

bravozulu said:

I'll buy the book. Help me with my first hurdle. Define Master Flash. I dread the darned pop up. It leaves that dark shadow under the lens when shooting Macro.

Here's what I don't get. Does the Master Flash have to be mounted on the Camera?
How does the camera trigger a flash w/o wires if not by a mounted flash?
Isn't there supposed to be IR signals from camera to flash?

My intention is to dump the pop up. Have one SB 800 in front to the left, an SB700 in front to the right. Can I trigger those lights without the pop-up?

This is not defined in any of the user manuals. Frustrating.

Click to expand...

You don't get to dump the pop up unless you put some other device atop your camera. That can be either of your SBs directly or mounted to a wired TTL cord so it's still essentially attached via the hot shoe -- or a specialized transmitter the SU800.

It's possible to dial down the pop up to where its light contribution is negligible but it sends out the IR signal that the two SBs pick up. You can attatch a Nikon SG-3ir that will tamp that down further And that is in the manual -- that's where I first read it.

I second the other poster's note about reading up. But you've got all the tools.

--
'Nice pen, bet you write good stories with it.'

bravozulu said:

So far in my acquisitions I've gotten a Nikon SB 800 and an SB 700. I asked earlier here about positioning the lights. Now I have a few more questions about adding a 3rd flash. Not a Nikon nor a Speedlight.

a) do preflashes from the Nikon lights create a firestorm of pre-flashes.

b) does the CLS system of balance get overpowered by non-system light with potentially greater output.

c) what's the advantage of a powered head such as the Alien Bees type -- over a speedlight.

Shooting would be with a Nikon D7000.

Click to expand...

You don't need to worry about mixing CLS with other higher powered heads if you use a Quantum head with QNexus. You get the extra power with these as well as control by your usual camera controller or SB800/SB900/SB910 or SU800 Masters. They work just the same as regular Nikon (or Canon) Speedlights.

--
Ian.

http://www.commercialphotographer.co.uk

Theres only one sun. Why do I need more than one light to get a natural result?

bravozulu said:

My intention is to dump the pop up. Have one SB 800 in front to the left, an SB700 in front to the right. Can I trigger those lights without the pop-up?

This is not defined in any of the user manuals. Frustrating.

Click to expand...

Actually you use your SB700 and SB800 without the pop-up being fired for the picture (it will still be fired as pre-flashes to communicate with the SB700 and SB800).

I'm using a off-body SB700 with my D90, I disable the internal flash by setting "- -" in the camera menu, and I set the SB700 in another mode (I usually use manual).

That way, the onboard pre-flashes are used to control my SB700, but the onboard flash is not triggered when the picture is taken, only the SB700 does.