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D5100 Manual mode

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Graystar said:
nfpotter said:
Graystar said:
I don't know who told you to shoot in manual mode, but I think that's was poor advice. Manual mode is not the best choice for this type of shooting, and a poor choice for the majority of photography. Basically, if the meter is working then manual mode is usually the wrong mode.
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Pure nonsense.
Graystar said:
Graystar said:
Man, you sometimes give good advice on here, but this is hilarious and wrong.
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No, it's right on the mark. Your advice is incorrect.
Graystar said:
1st off, I largely shoot wildlife, and I shoot 95% M Mode with Auto-ISO on. M Mode is NOT a poor choice.
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Of course you can use M mode...choosing M mode doesn't stop the shutter from firing. But whenever a person is able to accomplish a task successfully, there's always an underlying question as whether he is successful because of what he does or despite of what he does. In your case it's in spite of what you do, and I would bet that you'd have more low-ISO shots if you switched to A mode.
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This statement is rude and condescending to the poster nfpotter, who obviously knows more about action photography than you do. Read and learn.
Graystar said:
Graystar said:
2nd, you're suggesting that someone should menu-dive to set a minimum shutter speed of 1/400, rather than just flipping to M Mode and setting it? You think that's FASTER? Are you high? You just did the same thing as putting the camera in M Mode and selecting your shutter and aperture, only way slower.
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You set the Minimum Shutter Speed once to match the current subject matter. Street photography and other snaps of people work fine at 1/60s, 1/320s works for most sports
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Your kidding right? What kind of sports do you shoot, chess? I won't use less than 1/1000 sec shutter speed when shooting sports, and typically use 1/2000 or higher, unless I want some blur.
Graystar said:
, and 1/500s is what I use for birds in flight.
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You can get away with slower shutter speeds when panning with BIF. Even 1/250 is usually OK, but try that shutter speed without panning and see what you get!
Graystar said:
Once the MSS is set you don't have to change it unless your subject matter changes. Sure...Nikon should have made it easier,
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But Nikon did make it easier, It's called Manual mode with Auto ISO! You change the SS with a quick turn of the command wheel. What could be faster or easier? This is one big reason I switched from Sony, which does not have Auto ISO in manual mode with their cameras. A really big oversight on Sony's part and it tells me Sony doesn't know much about sports photography.
Graystar said:
...If the minimum shutter speed you need to freeze a BIF is 1/500s, I don't see how that would suddenly change to 1/250s in the middle of your shooting.
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I agree, you don't see it and that is the point of disagreement and why you don't understand the advantage of using Auto ISO in manual mode for action photography.
Graystar said:
Graystar said:
To the OP: M Mode with Auto-ISO is a GREAT way to go. It allows you to control both SS (for 1.5 x focal length, and/or subject motion), and Aperture size for DOF and/or sharpness control.
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That's not a great way to use Auto ISO...in fact it's a poor way to use Auto ISO.
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I suggest you limit your advice to what you know, and since you obviously don't know how to use Auto ISO with Manual mode you are beyond your depth of knowledge here.
Graystar said:
M mode with Auto ISO has two problems. First, you want to keep the ISO as low as possible...raising it only when necessary. With your method, ISO is always changing to give standard exposure at the current shutter/aperture combination.
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Your aperture method works exactly the same way, except you have set the shutter speed with the menu.
Graystar said:
If you want to shoot at the lowest ISO, then you need to constantly manage your shutter speed.
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Nonsense. For action shots, the shutter speed must be changed only when the speed of the subjects actions changes, not to maintain the lowest possible ISO.
Graystar said:
That's an unnecessary distraction. Auto ISO with A mode does that automatically.
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And that's just the problem. The camera does not know what shutter speed is needed to stop action. Only the photographer (should) know that.
Graystar said:
Second, you must always pay attention to the ISO because once you bump into either end of the ISO range then you're going to have under or overexposure.
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If the ISO range is set from 100-6400 ISO that will not be a problem.
Graystar said:
This is why using Auto-ISO with A mode excels...you always shoot at the lowest ISO possible while being protected from under/overexposure.
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Your concern is shooting with the lowest possible ISO, which is fine for slow moving or landscape photography, but this is not the primary concern of a photographer shooting action. His primary concern is motion blur.
Graystar said:
When you're shooting you want to control the aperture and you also want to shoot at the lowest ISO possible.
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In that case, you must only shoot at full aperture. I am often willing to use a higher ISO to gain some sharpness in using a smaller aperture on a lens like the Nikon 70-300G, which is not that sharp at the longer end unless stopped down to around f/8. Here is an example where I chose to do that.




Graystar said:
This prevents overexposure, and so you don't have to baby-sit your settings...you just set whatever aperture you want and shoot.
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Baby sit your settings? Why do you think Nikon put all those controls on your camera, for looks? Seriously, if you feel setting the shutter speed and aperture is too mush work, than why not just buy a P&S camera and be done with it?
Graystar said:
... And all this without you having to pay constant attention to the ISO and shutter speed. That's why Auto ISO with A mode is much better than with M mode.
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No, it's not better, but it does require less thought on the part of the photographer.

--
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain! The Great Oz has spoken!"
  • Jon
 
nfpotter said:
Graystar said:
nfpotter said:
Graystar said:
james laubscher said:
I think once people have 'discovered' the benefit of the Nikon auto iso system as expounded on by Graystar, they will seldom have to change their camera settings.

But there does come a time when for example the 1/400s shutter speed forces high iso settings and the pictures do become noisy (still subjects in darker conditions are an example). In this case there is little benefit to 1/400s shutter speed unless one is using handheld telezoom lenses.
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That's why the Minimum Shutter Speed setting is adjustable. You set the MSS to match the current subject matter. If you're taking pics of people sitting around at a picnic, 1/60s will probably be fine.
nfpotter said:
So why does the manual function exist? Graystar makes it sound like it is unnecessary but surely it serves a purpose. Can anyone explain why we would need to use the manual settings?
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Actually I said if the meter works then manual mode is the wrong mode...implying that if the meter doesn't work or can't be used, then manual mode would be the right mode. Astrophotography, long exposures, shooting fireworks, shooting lightning, and certain types of flash photography are all examples of when manual mode must be used.

But if you can meter your subject then you'll be better off with an auto mode.

.
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Graystar, WHERE do you get this stuff? "Wrong" is only wrong TO YOU. Would my shots come out better if I was in A Mode? No. And your setup takes longer.
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Yes, your shots will come out better in A mode and your setup will be faster.

The problem here is that you don't understand how to use your camera beyond M mode. You're dismissing processes that you've probably never tried.

.
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ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT.

I understand every single aspect of all 3 of my bodies. Unlike you, I have graduated up to shooting in M Mode, rather than the "always A Mode" baby crap.
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No, you don't understand your camera. The very fact that you think you moved "up" from A mode proves this. Otherwise you would understand that there nothing M mode gives you that you don't get from the other modes.

.
 
DuaneV said:
james laubscher said:
So why does the manual function exist? Graystar makes it sound like it is unnecessary but surely it serves a purpose. Can anyone explain why we would need to use the manual settings?
--
jamesza
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"M" mode basically exists for super controlled conditions, or immobile subjects (not that it cant be used for whatever you want, but its a LOT more work). Shooting a crow in "M" mode is a LOT of work and "A" mode would have been a much easier. Its not that one is right and one is wrong, its just one is easier and one is harder, more time consuming and there are more things you need to pay attention to.

"M" mode allows you to set speed and f/stop. "A" mode will let you choose your f/stop but then the camera takes care of the speed. So, depending on your subject and the light, the camera will adjust shutter speed appropriate to the subject. If the crow moves or the light changes, etc., while shooting in "M" mode then you need to re-adjust everything, manually.....which can take long enough to make you lose your chance. Keeping the camera in "A" allows the camera to adjust around your set f/stop.
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No, you don't. You can set both AP and SS at whatever speed you want. The camera still adjusts around your settings, using Auto-ISO.
DuaneV said:
If youre trying for different effects, etc., "M" mode might be the way to go. You could purposely over or under expose the shot. Get some blur, etc. It all depends on what you want for a final image. It allows you to tweak every little detail without any help from the camera.
nfpotter said:
Graystar said:
Since you have a Nikon, you should have shot in A mode, enabled your Auto-ISO, and set a Minimum Shutter Speed of 1/400s. Then you don't have to worry about ISO or shutter speed. If the shutter speed required for correct exposure is ever less than 1/400s, the camera will raise the ISO instead and maintain the shutter speed. This gives you the ability to manipulate aperture as you like, and also be protected from too slow a shutter speed, and you always shoot as the lowest ISO possible for the conditions. This frees you to concentrate on your subject and composition.

.
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Man, you sometimes give good advice on here, but this is hilarious and wrong.

1st off, I largely shoot wildlife, and I shoot 95% M Mode with Auto-ISO on. M Mode is NOT a poor choice.
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Manual is, without a doubt, more work (regardless of subject, LET ALONG wildlife) so in a sense it is a poor choice.....unless youre willing to do all the calculations manually. You need to constantly make sure youre shooting at the correct shutter speed in conjunction with your f/stop, ISO, etc. Something I personally dont have the time for when shooting active wildlife.
DuaneV said:
2nd, you're suggesting that someone should menu-dive to set a minimum shutter speed of 1/400, rather than just flipping to M Mode and setting it? You think that's FASTER? Are you high? You just did the same thing as putting the camera in M Mode and selecting your shutter and aperture, only way slower.
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I think he's suggesting this be set BEFORE HAND so you dont have to mess with settings or worry about them DURING the actual shooting. MUCH less work.
DuaneV said:
To the OP: M Mode with Auto-ISO is a GREAT way to go. It allows you to control both SS (for 1.5 x focal length, and/or subject motion), and Aperture size for DOF and/or sharpness control.
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Youre suggesting exactly what Graystar did that you ridiculed him for ("are you high?", except he's ALSO saying set the minimum shutter speed prior to shooting so you dont miss any action with blurred shots.

"M" is definitely NOT ideal, quick or easy for shooting action or wildlife images. Whem Im shooting portraits in studio, product photos, landscapes or macros I ONLY use manual. Thats what its best for, in my opinion. If someone wants to shoot manual birding, great. But when someone gives advice saying its not the easiest way to shoot bird photos they arent wrong, even if someone prefers doing it that way. Manual mode is the most labor intensive and skill-required type of photography you can shoot. You need to know your lighting, f/stop, ISO, shutter speeds, etc., and put them together accordingly to take a nice photo (or get the desired results). You need to do all the thinking for the camera instead of the other way around. Its much easier to screw something up shooting with "M" mode. This is why there were so few SLR shooters back in the day. It was a lot of work and money to shoot random, crappy pictures. Today, anyone can do it with a DSLR! lol.
--
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/3317198770/albums
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No, you don't need to know much at all. The camera has Auto-ISO and a built-in light meter.

To each their own, but I'd rather chance a few grainy shots because ISO is moving around (which can often be fixed in PP), then have a SS that is constantly changing. For example, what if I want to drag the shutter a bit? I should have to go menu-diving to do that? No thanks.
 
Graystar said:
nfpotter said:
Graystar said:
nfpotter said:
Graystar said:
james laubscher said:
I think once people have 'discovered' the benefit of the Nikon auto iso system as expounded on by Graystar, they will seldom have to change their camera settings.

But there does come a time when for example the 1/400s shutter speed forces high iso settings and the pictures do become noisy (still subjects in darker conditions are an example). In this case there is little benefit to 1/400s shutter speed unless one is using handheld telezoom lenses.
Click to expand...
That's why the Minimum Shutter Speed setting is adjustable. You set the MSS to match the current subject matter. If you're taking pics of people sitting around at a picnic, 1/60s will probably be fine.
Graystar said:
So why does the manual function exist? Graystar makes it sound like it is unnecessary but surely it serves a purpose. Can anyone explain why we would need to use the manual settings?
Click to expand...
Actually I said if the meter works then manual mode is the wrong mode...implying that if the meter doesn't work or can't be used, then manual mode would be the right mode. Astrophotography, long exposures, shooting fireworks, shooting lightning, and certain types of flash photography are all examples of when manual mode must be used.

But if you can meter your subject then you'll be better off with an auto mode.

.
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Graystar, WHERE do you get this stuff? "Wrong" is only wrong TO YOU. Would my shots come out better if I was in A Mode? No. And your setup takes longer.
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Yes, your shots will come out better in A mode and your setup will be faster.

The problem here is that you don't understand how to use your camera beyond M mode. You're dismissing processes that you've probably never tried.

.
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ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT.

I understand every single aspect of all 3 of my bodies. Unlike you, I have graduated up to shooting in M Mode, rather than the "always A Mode" baby crap.
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No, you don't understand your camera. The very fact that you think you moved "up" from A mode proves this. Otherwise you would understand that there nothing M mode gives you that you don't get from the other modes.

.
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Yes, there is. I don't have to go into a menu to set my minimum SS, and have that potentially flopping around.
 
nfpotter said:
Graystar said:
jonikon said:
nfpotter said:
Graystar said:
I don't know who told you to shoot in manual mode, but I think that's was poor advice. Manual mode is not the best choice for this type of shooting, and a poor choice for the majority of photography. Basically, if the meter is working then manual mode is usually the wrong mode.

Since you have a Nikon, you should have shot in A mode, enabled your Auto-ISO, and set a Minimum Shutter Speed of 1/400s. Then you don't have to worry about ISO or shutter speed. If the shutter speed required for correct exposure is ever less than 1/400s, the camera will raise the ISO instead and maintain the shutter speed. This gives you the ability to manipulate aperture as you like, and also be protected from too slow a shutter speed, and you always shoot as the lowest ISO possible for the conditions. This frees you to concentrate on your subject and composition.

.
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Man, you sometimes give good advice on here, but this is hilarious and wrong.

1st off, I largely shoot wildlife, and I shoot 95% M Mode with Auto-ISO on. M Mode is NOT a poor choice.
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I totally agree. I can't imagine what Graystar was thinking when he posted his reply, as any sports/wildlife photographer would tell him it is wrong to avoid manual mode with Auto ISO. The ability to directly and quickly change shutter speed and/or aperture is essential for this kind of photography.
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That's ridiculous. You don't need to change shutter speed quickly. The subject matter calls for a minimum shutter speed to freeze the action. Why would you need to shoot slower than that? If you want a blurred shot then it's easy to just switch to S mode to control the shutter or even M mode if you want to control the aperture as well. But when you want to freeze the action you never need to change the shutter speed. What does a faster shutter give you that the minimum required shutter doesn't??
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Because SS is part of the exposure triangle. Duh.
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There is no exposure triangle. That's a poorly devised mnemonic. If that's your guide to exposure then you really need to get some clarification on the actual relationship.
nfpotter said:
nfpotter said:
With Auto ISO and M mode you just end up shooting at a higher ISO than is necessary with no gain, because it's difficult to maintain the ISO as low as possible.
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How would I "end up shooting at a higher ISO than is necessary"? How do YOU know what the proper exposure was, what the focal length in use was, what aperture I wanted for a balance of exposure, DOF, and sharpness? You don't.
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Any time your shutter speed is higher than the minimum needed for base ISO, your ISO is higher than is needed. At your desired aperture...if you're shooting at 1/2000s but all you need is 1/500s to freeze the action then your ISO will be two stops higher than it needs to be. You just gave yourself more noise with nothing to show for it. If you want to shoot at the lowest ISO then you have to be constantly preoccupied with the shutter speed setting. If you can't see that then I dare say you might not even understand the exposure triangle (as poor a guide as it is.)

.
 
nfpotter said:
Graystar said:
nfpotter said:
Graystar said:
nfpotter said:
Graystar said:
james laubscher said:
I think once people have 'discovered' the benefit of the Nikon auto iso system as expounded on by Graystar, they will seldom have to change their camera settings.

But there does come a time when for example the 1/400s shutter speed forces high iso settings and the pictures do become noisy (still subjects in darker conditions are an example). In this case there is little benefit to 1/400s shutter speed unless one is using handheld telezoom lenses.
Click to expand...
That's why the Minimum Shutter Speed setting is adjustable. You set the MSS to match the current subject matter. If you're taking pics of people sitting around at a picnic, 1/60s will probably be fine.
nfpotter said:
So why does the manual function exist? Graystar makes it sound like it is unnecessary but surely it serves a purpose. Can anyone explain why we would need to use the manual settings?
Click to expand...
Actually I said if the meter works then manual mode is the wrong mode...implying that if the meter doesn't work or can't be used, then manual mode would be the right mode. Astrophotography, long exposures, shooting fireworks, shooting lightning, and certain types of flash photography are all examples of when manual mode must be used.

But if you can meter your subject then you'll be better off with an auto mode.

.
Click to expand...
Graystar, WHERE do you get this stuff? "Wrong" is only wrong TO YOU. Would my shots come out better if I was in A Mode? No. And your setup takes longer.
Click to expand...
Yes, your shots will come out better in A mode and your setup will be faster.

The problem here is that you don't understand how to use your camera beyond M mode. You're dismissing processes that you've probably never tried.

.
Click to expand...
ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT.

I understand every single aspect of all 3 of my bodies. Unlike you, I have graduated up to shooting in M Mode, rather than the "always A Mode" baby crap.
Click to expand...
No, you don't understand your camera. The very fact that you think you moved "up" from A mode proves this. Otherwise you would understand that there nothing M mode gives you that you don't get from the other modes.

.
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Yes, there is. I don't have to go into a menu to set my minimum SS, and have that potentially flopping around.
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As you are clearly making an effort to NOT understand Auto-ISO operation with A mode, I don't see any point it continuing.

.
 
nfpotter said:
Graystar said:
nfpotter said:
Graystar said:
I don't know who told you to shoot in manual mode, but I think that's was poor advice. Manual mode is not the best choice for this type of shooting, and a poor choice for the majority of photography. Basically, if the meter is working then manual mode is usually the wrong mode.

Since you have a Nikon, you should have shot in A mode, enabled your Auto-ISO, and set a Minimum Shutter Speed of 1/400s. Then you don't have to worry about ISO or shutter speed. If the shutter speed required for correct exposure is ever less than 1/400s, the camera will raise the ISO instead and maintain the shutter speed. This gives you the ability to manipulate aperture as you like, and also be protected from too slow a shutter speed, and you always shoot as the lowest ISO possible for the conditions. This frees you to concentrate on your subject and composition.
Click to expand...
Man, you sometimes give good advice on here, but this is hilarious and wrong.
Click to expand...
No, it's right on the mark. Your advice is incorrect.
nfpotter said:
1st off, I largely shoot wildlife, and I shoot 95% M Mode with Auto-ISO on. M Mode is NOT a poor choice.
Click to expand...
Of course you can use M mode...choosing M mode doesn't stop the shutter from firing. But whenever a person is able to accomplish a task successfully, there's always an underlying question as whether he is successful because of what he does or despite of what he does. In your case it's in spite of what you do, and I would bet that you'd have more low-ISO shots if you switched to A mode.
nfpotter said:
2nd, you're suggesting that someone should menu-dive to set a minimum shutter speed of 1/400, rather than just flipping to M Mode and setting it? You think that's FASTER? Are you high? You just did the same thing as putting the camera in M Mode and selecting your shutter and aperture, only way slower.
Click to expand...
You set the Minimum Shutter Speed once to match the current subject matter. Street photography and other snaps of people work fine at 1/60s, 1/320s works for most sports, and 1/500s is what I use for birds in flight. Once the MSS is set you don't have to change it unless your subject matter changes. Sure...Nikon should have made it easier, but there's no real disadvantage to the menu, other than a few seconds lost at the beginning of your shooting session. If set appropriately then you shouldn't need to change it while shooting. If the minimum shutter speed you need to freeze a BIF is 1/500s, I don't see how that would suddenly change to 1/250s in the middle of your shooting.
nfpotter said:
To the OP: M Mode with Auto-ISO is a GREAT way to go. It allows you to control both SS (for 1.5 x focal length, and/or subject motion), and Aperture size for DOF and/or sharpness control.
Click to expand...
That's not a great way to use Auto ISO...in fact it's a poor way to use Auto ISO.

M mode with Auto ISO has two problems. First, you want to keep the ISO as low as possible...raising it only when necessary. With your method, ISO is always changing to give standard exposure at the current shutter/aperture combination. If you want to shoot at the lowest ISO, then you need to constantly manage your shutter speed. That's an unnecessary distraction. Auto ISO with A mode does that automatically.

Second, you must always pay attention to the ISO because once you bump into either end of the ISO range then you're going to have under or overexposure. This is why using Auto-ISO with A mode excels...you always shoot at the lowest ISO possible while being protected from under/overexposure.

When you're shooting you want to control the aperture and you also want to shoot at the lowest ISO possible. With Auto-ISO in A mode you have control of the aperture, and the ISO stays at its lowest setting, with the camera changing shutter speed to match the lighting. This prevents overexposure, and so you don't have to baby-sit your settings...you just set whatever aperture you want and shoot. If the lighting gets low or you decide to use a narrow aperture for deep DOF, then Auto-ISO will not allow the shutter to drop below your minimum shutter speed, and will instead raise ISO to maintain that speed. This ensures that you'll never use a shutter that's slower than the slowest shutter you're willing to use for the current subject matter, AND it ensures that you're always using the lowest ISO possible to meet your exposure constraints. And all this without you having to pay constant attention to the ISO and shutter speed. That's why Auto ISO with A mode is much better than with M mode.

.
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NO. When YOU are shooting, YOU want to do things a certain way. I do them my way, which is faster and easier than yours, and offers greater control on the fly.

Sorry, YOU are wrong. Discussion over.
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No, my way is faster and YOU are wrong. NOW the discussion is over.

.
 
Graystar said:
nfpotter said:
Graystar said:
jonikon said:
nfpotter said:
Graystar said:
I don't know who told you to shoot in manual mode, but I think that's was poor advice. Manual mode is not the best choice for this type of shooting, and a poor choice for the majority of photography. Basically, if the meter is working then manual mode is usually the wrong mode.

Since you have a Nikon, you should have shot in A mode, enabled your Auto-ISO, and set a Minimum Shutter Speed of 1/400s. Then you don't have to worry about ISO or shutter speed. If the shutter speed required for correct exposure is ever less than 1/400s, the camera will raise the ISO instead and maintain the shutter speed. This gives you the ability to manipulate aperture as you like, and also be protected from too slow a shutter speed, and you always shoot as the lowest ISO possible for the conditions. This frees you to concentrate on your subject and composition.

.
Click to expand...
Man, you sometimes give good advice on here, but this is hilarious and wrong.

1st off, I largely shoot wildlife, and I shoot 95% M Mode with Auto-ISO on. M Mode is NOT a poor choice.
Click to expand...
I totally agree. I can't imagine what Graystar was thinking when he posted his reply, as any sports/wildlife photographer would tell him it is wrong to avoid manual mode with Auto ISO. The ability to directly and quickly change shutter speed and/or aperture is essential for this kind of photography.
Click to expand...
That's ridiculous. You don't need to change shutter speed quickly. The subject matter calls for a minimum shutter speed to freeze the action. Why would you need to shoot slower than that? If you want a blurred shot then it's easy to just switch to S mode to control the shutter or even M mode if you want to control the aperture as well. But when you want to freeze the action you never need to change the shutter speed. What does a faster shutter give you that the minimum required shutter doesn't??
Click to expand...
Because SS is part of the exposure triangle. Duh.
Click to expand...
There is no exposure triangle. That's a poorly devised mnemonic. If that's your guide to exposure then you really need to get some clarification on the actual relationship.
Click to expand...
Oh, so there AREN'T really 3 things that affect exposure. Jeez, what was I thinking...
Graystar said:
Graystar said:
Graystar said:
With Auto ISO and M mode you just end up shooting at a higher ISO than is necessary with no gain, because it's difficult to maintain the ISO as low as possible.
Click to expand...
How would I "end up shooting at a higher ISO than is necessary"? How do YOU know what the proper exposure was, what the focal length in use was, what aperture I wanted for a balance of exposure, DOF, and sharpness? You don't.
Click to expand...
Any time your shutter speed is higher than the minimum needed for base ISO, your ISO is higher than is needed. At your desired aperture...if you're shooting at 1/2000s but all you need is 1/500s to freeze the action then your ISO will be two stops higher than it needs to be. You just gave yourself more noise with nothing to show for it. If you want to shoot at the lowest ISO then you have to be constantly preoccupied with the shutter speed setting. If you can't see that then I dare say you might not even understand the exposure triangle (as poor a guide as it is.)

.
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This is insanity.

Yes I want as low an ISO as I can get. Your example above does NOT represent how I shoot. Why would I shoot at 1/2000 if I only need 1/500? I wouldn't. However, if I DID need 1/2000 for a shot, and then needed only 1/500 for the next shot, I can spin the rear wheel a couple clicks and I'm there, extremely quickly.

I understand that your method works, but it doesn't account for some things. What if I want to drag the shutter? I have to go back into a menu? No thanks. Also does not take into account a focal length in use that maybe change drastically shot to shot, as with my 50-500mm Bigma. Not to mention that you seem to place a LOT of importance on low ISO. While it is of course desirable, I would rather have a few grainy shots here and there (that I can fix later in PP) than have a bunch of blurry shots that can't be fixed.
 
Graystar said:
nfpotter said:
Graystar said:
nfpotter said:
Graystar said:
I don't know who told you to shoot in manual mode, but I think that's was poor advice. Manual mode is not the best choice for this type of shooting, and a poor choice for the majority of photography. Basically, if the meter is working then manual mode is usually the wrong mode.

Since you have a Nikon, you should have shot in A mode, enabled your Auto-ISO, and set a Minimum Shutter Speed of 1/400s. Then you don't have to worry about ISO or shutter speed. If the shutter speed required for correct exposure is ever less than 1/400s, the camera will raise the ISO instead and maintain the shutter speed. This gives you the ability to manipulate aperture as you like, and also be protected from too slow a shutter speed, and you always shoot as the lowest ISO possible for the conditions. This frees you to concentrate on your subject and composition.
Click to expand...
Man, you sometimes give good advice on here, but this is hilarious and wrong.
Click to expand...
No, it's right on the mark. Your advice is incorrect.
Graystar said:
1st off, I largely shoot wildlife, and I shoot 95% M Mode with Auto-ISO on. M Mode is NOT a poor choice.
Click to expand...
Of course you can use M mode...choosing M mode doesn't stop the shutter from firing. But whenever a person is able to accomplish a task successfully, there's always an underlying question as whether he is successful because of what he does or despite of what he does. In your case it's in spite of what you do, and I would bet that you'd have more low-ISO shots if you switched to A mode.
Graystar said:
2nd, you're suggesting that someone should menu-dive to set a minimum shutter speed of 1/400, rather than just flipping to M Mode and setting it? You think that's FASTER? Are you high? You just did the same thing as putting the camera in M Mode and selecting your shutter and aperture, only way slower.
Click to expand...
You set the Minimum Shutter Speed once to match the current subject matter. Street photography and other snaps of people work fine at 1/60s, 1/320s works for most sports, and 1/500s is what I use for birds in flight. Once the MSS is set you don't have to change it unless your subject matter changes. Sure...Nikon should have made it easier, but there's no real disadvantage to the menu, other than a few seconds lost at the beginning of your shooting session. If set appropriately then you shouldn't need to change it while shooting. If the minimum shutter speed you need to freeze a BIF is 1/500s, I don't see how that would suddenly change to 1/250s in the middle of your shooting.
Graystar said:
To the OP: M Mode with Auto-ISO is a GREAT way to go. It allows you to control both SS (for 1.5 x focal length, and/or subject motion), and Aperture size for DOF and/or sharpness control.
Click to expand...
That's not a great way to use Auto ISO...in fact it's a poor way to use Auto ISO.

M mode with Auto ISO has two problems. First, you want to keep the ISO as low as possible...raising it only when necessary. With your method, ISO is always changing to give standard exposure at the current shutter/aperture combination. If you want to shoot at the lowest ISO, then you need to constantly manage your shutter speed. That's an unnecessary distraction. Auto ISO with A mode does that automatically.

Second, you must always pay attention to the ISO because once you bump into either end of the ISO range then you're going to have under or overexposure. This is why using Auto-ISO with A mode excels...you always shoot at the lowest ISO possible while being protected from under/overexposure.

When you're shooting you want to control the aperture and you also want to shoot at the lowest ISO possible. With Auto-ISO in A mode you have control of the aperture, and the ISO stays at its lowest setting, with the camera changing shutter speed to match the lighting. This prevents overexposure, and so you don't have to baby-sit your settings...you just set whatever aperture you want and shoot. If the lighting gets low or you decide to use a narrow aperture for deep DOF, then Auto-ISO will not allow the shutter to drop below your minimum shutter speed, and will instead raise ISO to maintain that speed. This ensures that you'll never use a shutter that's slower than the slowest shutter you're willing to use for the current subject matter, AND it ensures that you're always using the lowest ISO possible to meet your exposure constraints. And all this without you having to pay constant attention to the ISO and shutter speed. That's why Auto ISO with A mode is much better than with M mode.

.
Click to expand...
NO. When YOU are shooting, YOU want to do things a certain way. I do them my way, which is faster and easier than yours, and offers greater control on the fly.

Sorry, YOU are wrong. Discussion over.
Click to expand...
No, my way is faster and YOU are wrong. NOW the discussion is over.

.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I can see from those 3 AWESOME shots in your gallery that you know it all.
 
jonikon said:
Graystar said:
I don't know who told you to shoot in manual mode, but I think that's was poor advice. Manual mode is not the best choice for this type of shooting, and a poor choice for the majority of photography. Basically, if the meter is working then manual mode is usually the wrong mode.
Click to expand...
Pure nonsense.
Click to expand...
No it's not. Your post is the nonsense. You say unbelievably stupid things such as "why do you think Nikon put all those controls on your camera" when anyone with half a brain knows that the same argument can be applied to justify the existence of the Minimum Shutter Speed in the Auto-ISO settings.

Why do you think Nikon put that there? So that you can tell people you don't use it?

Sounds like something an idiot would think.

.
 
Graystar said:
jonikon said:
Graystar said:
I don't know who told you to shoot in manual mode, but I think that's was poor advice. Manual mode is not the best choice for this type of shooting, and a poor choice for the majority of photography. Basically, if the meter is working then manual mode is usually the wrong mode.
Click to expand...
Pure nonsense.
Click to expand...
No it's not. Your post is the nonsense. You say unbelievably stupid things such as "why do you think Nikon put all those controls on your camera" when anyone with half a brain knows that the same argument can be applied to justify the existence of the Minimum Shutter Speed in the Auto-ISO settings.

Why do you think Nikon put that there? So that you can tell people you don't use it?

Sounds like something an idiot would think.

.
Click to expand...
Yes, a setting that IS IN A MENU. You must love menu-diving. Most of us don't, which why we buy cameras with external controls.

DUH
 
nfpotter said:
Oh, so there AREN'T really 3 things that affect exposure. Jeez, what was I thinking...
Click to expand...
No, there aren't. There are four.
nfpotter said:
This is insanity.

Yes I want as low an ISO as I can get. Your example above does NOT represent how I shoot. Why would I shoot at 1/2000 if I only need 1/500?
Click to expand...
Because you had the shutter speed set to 1/2000s, the sky darkened in the middle of your shooting and you failed to notice because you were concentrating on capturing your subject. And then the reverse happens and you overexpose your image because your ISO can't go any lower.
nfpotter said:
I wouldn't. However, if I DID need 1/2000 for a shot, and then needed only 1/500 for the next shot, I can spin the rear wheel a couple clicks and I'm there, extremely quickly.

I understand that your method works, but it doesn't account for some things. What if I want to drag the shutter?
Click to expand...
I just switch to S mode and set the shutter speed I want, or, since Auto ISO is enabled, I can switch to M if I really need to precisely control both shutter and aperture for that one shot. But for the majority of shots, where you simply want to freeze the action with the lowest ISO possible, Auto ISO with A mode is best.
nfpotter said:
Also does not take into account a focal length in use that maybe change drastically shot to shot, as with my 50-500mm Bigma.
Click to expand...
If the lens has image stabilization then that doesn't matter. If it doesn't, then it may matter, but your subject matter will likely define the minimum shutter speed. A bird in flight needs at least 1/500s no matter what focal length you use.
nfpotter said:
Not to mention that you seem to place a LOT of importance on low ISO. While it is of course desirable, I would rather have a few grainy shots here and there (that I can fix later in PP) than have a bunch of blurry shots that can't be fixed.
Click to expand...
If you don't want blurry shots then use Auto ISO with A mode. Then you get both sharp shots and at the lowest ISO possible for the conditions.

.
 
Graystar said:
nfpotter said:
Oh, so there AREN'T really 3 things that affect exposure. Jeez, what was I thinking...
Click to expand...
No, there aren't. There are four.
Click to expand...
Well, I suppose if you want to count light, but since we're talking about the relative exposure, there are only 3.
Graystar said:
Graystar said:
This is insanity.

Yes I want as low an ISO as I can get. Your example above does NOT represent how I shoot. Why would I shoot at 1/2000 if I only need 1/500?
Click to expand...
Because you had the shutter speed set to 1/2000s, the sky darkened in the middle of your shooting and you failed to notice because you were concentrating on capturing your subject. And then the reverse happens and you overexpose your image because your ISO can't go any lower.
Graystar said:
I wouldn't. However, if I DID need 1/2000 for a shot, and then needed only 1/500 for the next shot, I can spin the rear wheel a couple clicks and I'm there, extremely quickly.

I understand that your method works, but it doesn't account for some things. What if I want to drag the shutter?
Click to expand...
I just switch to S mode and set the shutter speed I want, or, since Auto ISO is enabled, I can switch to M if I really need to precisely control both shutter and aperture for that one shot. But for the majority of shots, where you simply want to freeze the action with the lowest ISO possible, Auto ISO with A mode is best.
Graystar said:
Also does not take into account a focal length in use that maybe change drastically shot to shot, as with my 50-500mm Bigma.
Click to expand...
If the lens has image stabilization then that doesn't matter. If it doesn't, then it may matter, but your subject matter will likely define the minimum shutter speed. A bird in flight needs at least 1/500s no matter what focal length you use.
Click to expand...
Not a bird in flight that I want to leave some blur in the wings to give the shot a sense of motion, perhaps. And your statement about stabilization is too general, doesn't take into account how GOOD the stabilization is (how many stops you get on average), OR how good (or bad) your hand-held technique is.
Graystar said:
Graystar said:
Not to mention that you seem to place a LOT of importance on low ISO. While it is of course desirable, I would rather have a few grainy shots here and there (that I can fix later in PP) than have a bunch of blurry shots that can't be fixed.
Click to expand...
If you don't want blurry shots then use Auto ISO with A mode. Then you get both sharp shots and at the lowest ISO possible for the conditions.

.
Click to expand...
I already do get sharp shots with the lowest ISO (or very close) as I can get. I just do it faster than you do.
 
nfpotter said:
Graystar said:
nfpotter said:
Oh, so there AREN'T really 3 things that affect exposure. Jeez, what was I thinking...
Click to expand...
No, there aren't. There are four.
Click to expand...
Well, I suppose if you want to count light, but since we're talking about the relative exposure, there are only 3.
Click to expand...
This is why beginners have such a hard time learning about exposure...because they get information from people like you who dismiss the value of understanding light's role in the exposure relationship.
nfpotter said:
I already do get sharp shots with the lowest ISO (or very close) as I can get. I just do it faster than you do.
Click to expand...
The only time you do by hand that which my camera does automatically, is when you're dreaming.

.
 
nfpotter said:
Graystar said:
nfpotter said:
Yeah, I can see from those 3 AWESOME shots in your gallery that you know it all.
Click to expand...
I would suggest to you that you don't talk about others' galleries.
Click to expand...
Oh really? Let's see some of your genius work. You wanna get personal? Step up, buttercup.
Click to expand...
I was trying not to get personal, but you seem to want to go that route. First, I only post images for illustrative purposes in forum posts. Second, my images don't have to be genius for your images to suck. They have everything they need to do that on their own.

Just go to bing and see the bird shot on their home page and compare that to yours. See what I mean?

.
 
Graystar said:
nfpotter said:
Graystar said:
nfpotter said:
Oh, so there AREN'T really 3 things that affect exposure. Jeez, what was I thinking...
Click to expand...
No, there aren't. There are four.
Click to expand...
Well, I suppose if you want to count light, but since we're talking about the relative exposure, there are only 3.
Click to expand...
This is why beginners have such a hard time learning about exposure...because they get information from people like you who dismiss the value of understanding light's role in the exposure relationship.
Click to expand...
Wrong. We're talking about a RELATIVE scale, so in fact, I just make it easier for people to get to the same end result.
Graystar said:
Graystar said:
I already do get sharp shots with the lowest ISO (or very close) as I can get. I just do it faster than you do.
Click to expand...
The only time you do by hand that which my camera does automatically, is when you're dreaming.

.
Click to expand...
While you're digging through menus, I'm already shooting.
 
Graystar said:
nfpotter said:
Graystar said:
nfpotter said:
Yeah, I can see from those 3 AWESOME shots in your gallery that you know it all.
Click to expand...
I would suggest to you that you don't talk about others' galleries.
Click to expand...
Oh really? Let's see some of your genius work. You wanna get personal? Step up, buttercup.
Click to expand...
I was trying not to get personal, but you seem to want to go that route. First, I only post images for illustrative purposes in forum posts. Second, my images don't have to be genius for your images to suck. They have everything they need to do that on their own.

Just go to bing and see the bird shot on their home page and compare that to yours. See what I mean?

.
Click to expand...
Really. All of my gallery images are not to your taste? I'm crushed...

No, sorry. A tiny subject in the center of the frame. I have dozens of better heron shots. Nice colors, though.

You're a chump. Step up or shut up.
 
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