GH2: Where is the 30p?

Hi--Have just bot the GH2. Am lovin' it and coming from camcorders have a lot to learn.

As of the latest firmware I hear 1080p30 at 24mbps has been added. So, where is it?

Maybe my manual is pre-firmware update because in the specs, p196, "Recording quality, Motion Pictures" there is no listing of 1080p30 or 1080i at 24mbps, the 1080i is listed as 17mbps. 1080p30 is not mentioned.

Is it the HBR choice in Creative Movie, and is it embedded in 1080i?

Is it possible my brand new GH2 doesn't have the firmware update and how can I tell?

I see if one chooses Manual, then in Rec Mode there is 1080i & 720p60 to choose from, which made me wonder if the HBR is the 1080p30.

elmerlang said:

Is it possible my brand new GH2 doesn't have the firmware update and how can I tell?

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VERSION DISP. (in the SETUP Menu) reports the GH2 camera body firmware level, as well as the firmware level of any lens attached at that time. What does it report ?

1080i is 30P wrapped in 60 frame per second (59,97 frame/sec) , so it can be played by HD TV.

Jun2 said:

1080i is 30P wrapped in 60 frame per second (59,97 frame/sec) , so it can be played by HD TV.

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Incorrect. What you say is true of the other M43 cameras, but the GH2 sensor outputs 60fps, and before the firmware upgrade your choices with it were 1080i60 or 720p60. 1080i60 was true interlaced video, with one field containing even scan lines from one sensor readout and the next field containing odd scan lines coming from a different readout. There was no way to get true 1080p30 video, period.

But GH2 doesn't output 1080p60 despite the sensor is 60frame/sec, only outputs 1080i at 30F/s. Don't know about the hacked version of GH2.

its the hbr mode in creative movie mode.

i agree its a little confusing, they just need to tell us straight up 24/25/30p etc. instead of giving these modes new names like HBR.

Thanks to all repliers!

@ Detail Man -- Thanks, I checked, it's 1.1 firmware. Good to know.

@ Jim Socks -- Thanks. And so it's embedded? I use FCP but also have Premiere Pro. I ordered a (used) book on PP and want to learn it since transcoding in FCP to ProRes creates such large files. Hopefully, the pull-down will be easy to grasp and perform.

Jun2 said:

But GH2 doesn't output 1080p60 despite the sensor is 60frame/sec, only outputs 1080i at 30F/s. Don't know about the hacked version of GH2.

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Correct, and that's basically the only reason I haven't already bought it. The Panasonic firmware upgrade doesn't provide 1080p60, nor do any of the hacks. Looks like we need to wait for the GH3 for that feature.

Sean Nelson said:

Jun2 said:

But GH2 doesn't output 1080p60 despite the sensor is 60frame/sec, only outputs 1080i at 30F/s. Don't know about the hacked version of GH2.

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Correct, and that's basically the only reason I haven't already bought it. The Panasonic firmware upgrade doesn't provide 1080p60, nor do any of the hacks. Looks like we need to wait for the GH3 for that feature.

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Apart from Sony, who else has 1080p60 on a DSLR? and the 28mb is not that great. I compared a few things with the 5n, not scientific as in the end the 5n started to irritate me, but the 720p50 of the GH2 easily matches the 108050 of the 5n and I actually thought the 5n 25p was superior to the 1080p50?

In any event the 720p can be easily rendered as 1080p50 with various editors and I bet at normal viewing you wouldnt know the difference?

All the following from the time-line.

Adventsam said:

...the 720p50 of the GH2 easily matches the 108050 of the 5n

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...and I can't wait to see what the 1080p60 of the GH3 is going to look like. Especially if it gets hacked.

I buy cameras for the long haul, not to trade them in - so I'll not buy a GH2 when the GH3 will have the features I want and is so close at hand. I've got other cameras to keep me busy until it arrives.

Sean Nelson said:

Adventsam said:

...the 720p50 of the GH2 easily matches the 108050 of the 5n

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...and I can't wait to see what the 1080p60 of the GH3 is going to look like. Especially if it gets hacked.

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As I said, you will see very little improvement in the short-term, it will be at least 1 year from now before a GH3 is hacked, maybe longer! and know Panasonic the 1080p will be 28mb variety, I currently get 45mb in 720p so 50%more bits thrown at 50% less resolution. I think the difference from 720p to 1080p was around 700 lines resolution to current class leaders of 1080 @1000 lines. You can easily bridge this gap with upscaling, ie I could see no difference viewed at normal distance on a 1080p screen between upscaled 720p from the editor and the tv and the native 1080 file?

Sean Nelson said:

I buy cameras for the long haul, not to trade them in - so I'll not buy a GH2 when the GH3 will have the features I want and is so close at hand. I've got other cameras to keep me busy until it arrives.

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I've had my GH1 since it was released followed by the GH2 on day of release, in between I have tried numerous cams and bought ans sold a55 and 5n which proved to be less flexible and not to have raw files as good as the GH2, in particular as I say the 720p hacked can walk all over the 5n 1080p.

Adventsam said:

You can easily bridge this gap with upscaling, ie I could see no difference viewed at normal distance on a 1080p screen between upscaled 720p from the editor and the tv and the native 1080 file?

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I sit about 8 feet from my 70" television and the difference between 720p and 1080i broadcasts is pretty obvious to me (and it doesn't favour the 720p).

There is no need to have a tv that size for that distance? but thats your choice and there is better resolution in 720p than 1080i, so something is wrong? What we were comparing is 1080p vs 720p and seeing as the best way to appreciate this is probably with 108024p or the HBR of the Pana and again I can see no difference c/w hbr but 24p is the tops, but by how much?

Something wrong somewhere with your broadcast provider, maybe they are using high compression low bits on 720p and can squeeze higher bits on 1080i as its 2x540 lines every sec?

I wouldn't confuse broadcast with home video, note these guys are using 4:4:4 colour sampling and all that @source and then down sampling etc, we are starting with 8bit and unless you are willing to fork out 10's of thousands of dollars and army of operators and a fork lift its difficult really to compare 8bit avc with 12 and 10bit pro broadcast/film equipment?

You get what you get for 600bucks? and even the GH3 will be 8bit codec. So understand what you are comparing, price-points etc for film-video are very different to cameras?

Hi

I use my hacked GH1 in 720p 50fps mode and the video is much better than my OMD's. I wish it wash't so, but it is.

--
Berni29

OMD, GH1 + Pana 20mm & 14-45mm (prev E30, E510, E1)

berni29 said:

Hi

I use my hacked GH1 in 720p 50fps mode and the video is much better than my OMD's. I wish it wash't so, but it is.

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GH1/2 are perfect by a long way but they can be very very good and generally speaking there isnt a dslr that can touch them for detail, especially once hacked, 720p is a stand-out on these cams. ;-)

berni29 said:

--
Berni29

OMD, GH1 + Pana 20mm & 14-45mm (prev E30, E510, E1)

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Adventsam said:

There is no need to have a tv that size for that distance?

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That distance gives the screen an apparent width of about 35 degrees, which is the THX recommendation for HDTV. It allows you to benefit from the full HD resolution of 1920 x 1080. If you're sitting at a distance that gives you a smaller apparent screen size then you won't be able to see the full resolution of the image and that might be why you can't see the difference between 720p and 1080i.

See: http://hd.engadget.com/2006/12/09/1080p-charted-viewing-distance-to-screen-size/
...and: http://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html

Adventsam said:

but thats your choice and there is better resolution in 720p than 1080i, so something is wrong?

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1080i has a resolution of 1920 x 1080 spread over two fields. On modern digital televisions which actually combine the even and odd fields for sequential display that gives you a higher resolution than 720p (1280 x 720). That's especially true because a 720p signal has to be upscaled for viewing on a 1920 x 1080 display, and that softens the image.