G3 - fighting this camera !

Hi ,

I recently got this camera and am struggling with it in outdoor shots despite having spent 10 years using 35mm,645 , 4x5 film cameras !

My worst gripe is a fringe effect around trees in landscapes - I am not certain whether this is due to over blue response since in the affected pictures there is a blue cast seen on whites/ greys.

camera is set in normal mode i.e. no effects on.

see two images showing the effect ,
canal - taken at 50 asa
http://photos.freeserve.com/album/album_photo.html?c_photo=2038152

locks taken at 100 asa.
http://photos.freeserve.com/album/album_photo.html?c_photo=2038153

both taken in ae mode with EV metering, daylight balance.

I have looked at numerous photos from othert G3 users but have not
seen anything this excessive.

I also find that the camer tend to give washed out highlights on outdoor shots and find myself dialing in compensation or using exp lock to get what IU want.

I had expected the EV metering to do its best to preserve them
but it does not !

comments on whether this is normal or I should return the camera would be welcome.

Thanks
Phil Humphreys

Phil Humphreys said:

Hi ,
I recently got this camera and am struggling with it in outdoor
shots despite having spent 10 years using 35mm,645 , 4x5 film
cameras !

My worst gripe is a fringe effect around trees in landscapes - I am
not certain whether this is due to over blue response since in the
affected pictures there is a blue cast seen on whites/ greys.

camera is set in normal mode i.e. no effects on.

see two images showing the effect ,
canal - taken at 50 asa
http://photos.freeserve.com/album/album_photo.html?c_photo=2038152

locks taken at 100 asa.
http://photos.freeserve.com/album/album_photo.html?c_photo=2038153

both taken in ae mode with EV metering, daylight balance.

I have looked at numerous photos from othert G3 users but have not
seen anything this excessive.

I also find that the camer tend to give washed out highlights on
outdoor shots and find myself dialing in compensation or using exp
lock to get what IU want.

I had expected the EV metering to do its best to preserve them
but it does not !

comments on whether this is normal or I should return the camera
would be welcome.

Thanks
Phil Humphreys

Click to expand...

Hi there, ummm..... here are some threads about the blue casts and CA in a G3, it contains some very useful tips. (just don't mind the arguments...)

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=4119546

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=4124989

• it takes a bit of reading though, for they're a bit long.

=)

cheers!

Hi,

Could you provide EXIF data for your shots, it might help understanding why you are getting such a strong fringe effect around the branches.

--
Gowan
G3 - MV5i

Phil Humphreys said:

My worst gripe is a fringe effect around trees in landscapes - I am
not certain whether this is due to over blue response since in the
affected pictures there is a blue cast seen on whites/ greys.

Click to expand...

Some tips to help you win your fight with the G3:

I've noticed that in shots with bare tree branches like yours, there is a tendency for some of the background blue sky to show up looking like CA (though I don't think that all of what your seeing is technically CA). Try using an aperture of f4 or greater. You'll see less of this effect with a darker blue sky.

As far as metering, try the "Evaluative Metering" mode. For me, this tends to give more accurate and balanced exposures.

--
Scott

G3 Disney Gallery
http://www.pbase.com/sdommin/disney_usa

My 'Favorites' Gallery:
http://www.pbase.com/sdommin/favorites

I believe Scott does have the solution there.

You'll notice in Phil's review the fringing is remarkably reduced going from F2.5 to F4.5.
JL

SDommin said:

Phil Humphreys said:

My worst gripe is a fringe effect around trees in landscapes - I am
not certain whether this is due to over blue response since in the
affected pictures there is a blue cast seen on whites/ greys.

Click to expand...

Some tips to help you win your fight with the G3:

I've noticed that in shots with bare tree branches like yours,
there is a tendency for some of the background blue sky to show up
looking like CA (though I don't think that all of what your seeing
is technically CA). Try using an aperture of f4 or greater. You'll
see less of this effect with a darker blue sky.

As far as metering, try the "Evaluative Metering" mode. For me,
this tends to give more accurate and balanced exposures.

--
Scott

G3 Disney Gallery
http://www.pbase.com/sdommin/disney_usa

My 'Favorites' Gallery:
http://www.pbase.com/sdommin/favorites

Click to expand...

Phil Humphreys said:

My worst gripe is a fringe effect around trees in landscapes

Click to expand...

Someone mentioned CA (Chromatic Abberation). Unless those words have changed their meaning to incluce all incorrectly rendered colour, then CA it is not.

I have seen this effect myself with bare branches, it mahes deleting the sky to replace it with something better rather more difficult. I have, at the back of my mind, put it down to the averaging of pixels inherent on non-foveon cameras (ie two green and two other colour pixels manipulated to give four full colour ones). Bare thin twigs against a contrasting sky might give some such effect.
I don't know, there may be some other explanation.

Chris Beney

Phil Humphreys said:

Hi ,
I recently got this camera and am struggling with it in outdoor
shots despite having spent 10 years using 35mm,645 , 4x5 film
cameras !

My worst gripe is a fringe effect around trees in landscapes - I am
not certain whether this is due to over blue response since in the
affected pictures there is a blue cast seen on whites/ greys.

camera is set in normal mode i.e. no effects on.

see two images showing the effect ,
canal - taken at 50 asa
http://photos.freeserve.com/album/album_photo.html?c_photo=2038152

locks taken at 100 asa.
http://photos.freeserve.com/album/album_photo.html?c_photo=2038153

both taken in ae mode with EV metering, daylight balance.

I have looked at numerous photos from othert G3 users but have not
seen anything this excessive.

I also find that the camer tend to give washed out highlights on
outdoor shots and find myself dialing in compensation or using exp
lock to get what IU want.

I had expected the EV metering to do its best to preserve them
but it does not !

comments on whether this is normal or I should return the camera
would be welcome.

Thanks
Phil Humphreys

Click to expand...

Hi Phil I too Had recently Picked up the g3, had it For 7 Days, 6 days longer than i should have ,,It was a big upgrade for me from the 6800 zoom finepix with I still own!! most of my indoor shots were out of focus or slightly fuzzy ...found my self struggling to focus my eyes to see the pictures and those purple halos and blue reflections on streams and rivers are definitly not in the top ten as far as I am concerned sorry to say I returned it fast!! Go With your gut Instinct Phil , dont settle for seconds lifes too short!!!

Curiouser and curiouser.

I haven't seen any of that yet.

Check the last two images in the gallery at:
http://www.pbase.com/ulysses/g3__f717

F717



G3



The sky of the G3 is bright blue, it's true. But interestingly, the other camera doesn't nail it either, being somewhat too pale. The G3 is actually closer. And its WB was better (both cameras were using the Sunny preset).

Another thing... on another topic. The shadows around this pond and road were in fact bluish even to the naked eye. Both cameras recorded bluish shadows. No problem there.

dean j kenny said:

Hi Phil I too Had recently Picked up the g3, had it For 7 Days, 6
days longer than i should have ,,It was a big upgrade for me from
the 6800 zoom finepix with I still own!! most of my indoor shots
were out of focus or slightly fuzzy ...found my self struggling to
focus my eyes to see the pictures and those purple halos and blue
reflections on streams and rivers are definitly not in the top ten
as far as I am concerned sorry to say I returned it fast!! Go With
your gut Instinct Phil , dont settle for seconds lifes too short!!!

Click to expand...

--

Ulysses

Phil,

Can you exchange your camera for another?

Ulysses said:

Curiouser and curiouser.

Click to expand...

Could it be the angle of the sun? I haven't seen that effect either.

• Olga

The EXIF information would be interesting. What resolution were these shot at, and what compression?? Have you tried RAW mode???

Geoff

Geoff Crowther said:

The EXIF information would be interesting. What resolution were
these shot at, and what compression?? Have you tried RAW mode???

Geoff

Click to expand...

Thanks to all for your suggestions about the problems that I am seeing .
Geoff , the exif data is below , photos were in superfine L , iso 50, 100
both at F4.

canal

File Name
g30009.JPG
Camera Model Name
Canon PowerShot G3
Shooting Date/Time
1/5/03 1:40:05 PM
Shooting Mode
Program AE
Photo Effect Mode
Off
Tv( Shutter Speed )
1/800
Av( Aperture Value )
4.0
Metering Mode
Evaluative
Exposure Compensation
0
ISO Speed
100
Lens
7.2 - 28.8mm
Focal Length
11.2mm
Digital Zoom
None
Image Size
2272x1704
Image Quality
Superfine
Flash
Off
White Balance
Daylight
AF Mode
Single AF
File Size
2690KB
File Number
102-0206
Drive Mode
Single-frame shooting
Owner's Name

Locks

File Name
g30011.JPG
Camera Model Name
Canon PowerShot G3
Shooting Date/Time
1/6/03 12:15:51 PM
Shooting Mode
Program AE
Photo Effect Mode
Off
Tv( Shutter Speed )
1/320
Av( Aperture Value )
4.0
Metering Mode
Evaluative
Exposure Compensation
0
ISO Speed
50
Lens
7.2 - 28.8mm
Focal Length
12.7mm
Digital Zoom
None
Image Size
2272x1704
Image Quality
Superfine
Flash
Off
White Balance
Daylight
AF Mode
Single AF
File Size
2295KB
File Number
102-0278
Drive Mode
Single-frame shooting
Owner's Name

I read all the threads indicated by your replies concerning probs with this camera and sadly I can agree with many of them desiote wanting this model to be superb !!

Dr Johnson took some flack but its hard to disagree with someone who has both cameras - I have seen all the things mentioned in the discussions.

I dont think the effect in my photos is CA as such , the "canal " photo has sun shining onto the trees and blue sky behind the branches I dont think this would be particularly high contrast - also aperture was F4.

I think that over blue response plays a big part in the phenomenen.

Even in dull conditions often I get very definate blue casts in AWB, Daylight etc, using a custom balance helps in those occasions.

I have seen many superb images from your galleries e.g. OlgaJ,Ulysyss which makes it all the more frustrating.

Maybe there are large variations in G3 performance between units?

I think my only option is to return this camera and either try another one if available or consider something else G2? , Sony DSC 85.

Thanks again , Phil

Phil Humphreys said:

I have seen many superb images from your galleries e.g.
OlgaJ,Ulysyss which makes it all the more frustrating.

Click to expand...

I'm hoping to eventually post up images that are more interesting. So far, the only thing I've posted here have been tests and samples related to tests. Or just stuff for the fun of it. But thanks for the compliments. I haven't done anything on the order of OlgaJ's photos or that of others. Not with the G3, anyway.

Member said:

Maybe there are large variations in G3 performance between units?

Click to expand...

Good gawwd!! I hope not.

But there could be something to this, I'll admit. I've seen it from other manufacturers (a small difference between production units).

Member said:

I think my only option is to return this camera and either try
another one if available or consider something else G2? , Sony DSC 85.

Click to expand...

Hmm... interesting set of alternatives. You're probably nervous/anxious about whichever direction you choose here.

--

Ulysses

Also the shot withteh 717 does have some purple fringing on the branches in front of the white clouds to the right. The shot marked G3 actually is much cleaner.
JL

Ulysses said:

I haven't seen any of that yet.

Check the last two images in the gallery at:
http://www.pbase.com/ulysses/g3__f717

F717



G3



The sky of the G3 is bright blue, it's true. But interestingly, the
other camera doesn't nail it either, being somewhat too pale. The
G3 is actually closer. And its WB was better (both cameras were
using the Sunny preset).

Another thing... on another topic. The shadows around this pond and
road were in fact bluish even to the naked eye. Both cameras
recorded bluish shadows. No problem there.

dean j kenny said:

Hi Phil I too Had recently Picked up the g3, had it For 7 Days, 6
days longer than i should have ,,It was a big upgrade for me from
the 6800 zoom finepix with I still own!! most of my indoor shots
were out of focus or slightly fuzzy ...found my self struggling to
focus my eyes to see the pictures and those purple halos and blue
reflections on streams and rivers are definitly not in the top ten
as far as I am concerned sorry to say I returned it fast!! Go With
your gut Instinct Phil , dont settle for seconds lifes too short!!!

Click to expand...

--

Ulysses

Click to expand...

I agree with you about the G3 being cleaner in this shot.

But rather than "purple fringing" in the traditioinal sense, I think what you're seeing is a result of a few different things going on in the F717 shot: Color contrasts of the small branches against a bright sky, the Bayer CCD effect, and possibly other issues unrelated to the lens itself.

szimitar said:

Also the shot withteh 717 does have some purple fringing on the
branches in front of the white clouds to the right. The shot marked
G3 actually is much cleaner.

Click to expand...

--

Ulysses

even in the hands of my wife, the G3 performs as long as the exposure is right!



MAC
http://www.digi-pictures.com

Phil Humphreys said:

I read all the threads indicated by your replies concerning probs
with this camera and sadly I can agree with many of them desiote
wanting this model to be superb !!

Dr Johnson took some flack but its hard to disagree with someone
who has both cameras - I have seen all the things mentioned in the
discussions.

Click to expand...

yup, he did..... mainly the reason why he's not posting anymore, I think.

Member said:

I dont think the effect in my photos is CA as such , the "canal "
photo has sun shining onto the trees and blue sky behind the
branches I dont think this would be particularly high contrast -
also aperture was F4.

I think that over blue response plays a big part in the phenomenen.

Even in dull conditions often I get very definate blue casts in
AWB, Daylight etc, using a custom balance helps in those occasions.

I have seen many superb images from your galleries e.g.
OlgaJ,Ulysyss which makes it all the more frustrating.

Maybe there are large variations in G3 performance between units?

I think my only option is to return this camera and either try
another one if available or consider something else G2? , Sony DSC
85.

Thanks again , Phil

Click to expand...

umm, try the G2 - you wont regret it. I've also "tried" the S85, it's a nice camera - quite capable too, but the G2 is better.

=)

cheers!