How to handle spot-metering not linked to AF point?

Recomposing will alter focus, as the focusing plane is a plane , not a sphere around the camera. When you turn the camera you turn the focus plane, and the object which before was on the plane will now be in front of, or behind the plane (depending on how you turn).

Okay okay, most lenses don't have really plane focus fields (especially not large aperture lenses), but they are more plane than spherical, and that is the problem. Only fisheye lenses have a spherical focus surface.

Distance to the object is of course the same, despite turning the camera.
Once you've locked focus, surely that's it. Recomposing won't alter the focus distance unless you're tracking moving objects.

It's a feature of the 1 series that spot metering is locked to the active AF point and I thought most modern, high end Canon's would be similar.
Perhaps a firmware update ?

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  • Jan
 
In the scenario I was describing, the focus is likely to keep changing since it is a live scene with shots taken every second or two. So you have to keep lifting your finger and re-focusing and re-metering and recomposing.
Also, if you are doing multiple shots of a continuing scene or situation a second or so apart, center-point-and-recompose requires you to keep cycling through the focus and recompose sequence, which is dizzying after a while.
No.

Just tested with a 550d with the Shutter/AE lock buttons set to "AE lock/AF" aka standard back button focus setting.

The exposure is locked by pressing the shutter button half-way and then if you keep the shutter button depressed after taking a picture the AE is still locked. If you fully depress the shutter to take another shot it is at the same exposure, and the exposure stays locked until you fully release the shutter button.

So you'd only need to recompose once - so long as your finger didn't slip off the button or you relax your grip...
It would be much better to have the metering linked to the selected focus point.
Yes, definitely.

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Peter
 
Often tracking moving objects. Imagine a wedding scene, event, natural setting portraits, etc.

It would be wonderful if this were doable and fixed through a firmware update.
Once you've locked focus, surely that's it. Recomposing won't alter the focus distance unless you're tracking moving objects.

It's a feature of the 1 series that spot metering is locked to the active AF point and I thought most modern, high end Canon's would be similar.
Perhaps a firmware update ?

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Peter
 
In a trip to Yosemite to compare the 5d3 and d800, Fred Miranda found the liveview implementation on the d800 so unusable that he put the camera away and just used the 5d3 for most of his shooting.
--unusable liveview
Just curious what you mean by "unusable". I have had the D3x for a year now and other than for having a larger image to frame by, LV on this thing is quite unusable as compared to my 5D2 but I thought that it was just me. I was hoping Nikon would steal some of the ideas and tech from Canon for LV on their new cameras.

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Peter
 
Yes, that seems like a 4th solution, in addition to using evaluative instead of spot, using manual, or using AE lock.

Focus and recompose is also sometimes possible but is a flawed alternative for high ISO and wide apertures. AE lock seems the best alternative, though it requires an extra step. But none is really a good solution. I prefer to see through the viewfinder for most shooting other than on a tripod, thus liveview is not how I would prefer to shoot. Also, it is not really clear what happens when you use evaluative with a non-center AF point--how the evaluative metering is changed or not changed by a selected AF point.

The spot meter should be linked to the AF point. I hope they can and do fix this in firmware, though I don't know why they wouldn't have done this in the first place.
How are people who spot meter and also select their AF point working around the non-linkage of these on the 5d3?
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How about Live View? In LV the exposure is determined from the placement of magnification rectangle, which you can move over nearly the entire frame. Its like a rather large spot meter with custom placement and the camera will take an exposure reading just before initiating a shot.

In LV "Live", AF will also be made at the location of the magnification rectangle, as it is contrast detect. But in LV "Quick" the AF points will be used as this is the normal Phase detect AF mechanism. Thus in LV Quick, AF location and exposure metering can be a very different places in the frame.

Mike K
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Peter
 
The first and best solution is to switch to Nikon if you want REAL AF to spot meter solution. Then far in the distance comes 2nd, third and fourth solutions. Glad to help you buddy.
 
+1
Don't focus and recompose, AE-lock and recompose, then use your selected AF point to focus and shoot. That's what I do.
Set the camera up with "back button focusing" with the shutter half-press set to "AE lock (while button pressed)". Then spot meter with the shutter button half-pressed and held, then focus. The metering will be locked as long as you half-press or fully press the shutter. To keep that meter setting after you shoot make sure you keep the button half-pressed after a shot.

Alternatively, set the shutter button to anything other than AE lock. And set the * button to "AE lock (hold)". In this scenario once you lock with the * it will automatically hold until you press * again.
 
The spot meter should be linked to the AF point.
Yes, one should have that option. But you don't and won't.
I hope they can and do fix this in firmware, though I don't know why they wouldn't have done this in the first place.
This is a trivial firmware fix. But Canon won't do it. They appear to be very stubborn about things like this. They've only ever done it on the 1D/1Ds series. It ain't gonna happen on the 5D3. If you really need this, wait for Magic Lantern to come to the 5D3.
 
LOL. If I switched I would have all the many defects of the d800. Imagine a $3000 camera with melting parts, misaligned autofocus, green-tinted LCD, and even battery doors that you need to tape closed. LOL.

I actually can afford to make the switch if I want to. Just can't imagine why I would want to.

I really do suggest that you sell your d800 ahead of the crowd.
The first and best solution is to switch to Nikon if you want REAL AF to spot meter solution. Then far in the distance comes 2nd, third and fourth solutions. Glad to help you buddy.
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Peter
 
How are people who spot meter and also select their AF point working around the non-linkage of these on the 5d3?
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How about Live View? In LV the exposure is determined from the placement of magnification rectangle, which you can move over nearly the entire frame. Its like a rather large spot meter with custom placement and the camera will take an exposure reading just before initiating a shot.

In LV "Live", AF will also be made at the location of the magnification rectangle, as it is contrast detect. But in LV "Quick" the AF points will be used as this is the normal Phase detect AF mechanism. Thus in LV Quick, AF location and exposure metering can be a very different places in the frame.

Mike K
There are a couple of problems with this, one, in low contrast situations, LV focus underperforms, to say the least and two, in situations involving red light (not that I can think of a red lighted situation that might call for spot metering (no hooker jokes, please!)) LV focus has it's own set of problems.
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But if you're shooting in manual and you spot meter off something then recompose, your exposure isn't going to change, correct? So essentially you're creating the AE lock by setting manual exposure, no?
 
Who said I was speaking about D800?
You could switch to any other Nikon and get what you want in spot meter/AF
 
How about Live View? In LV the exposure is determined from the placement of magnification rectangle, which you can move over nearly the entire frame. Its like a rather large spot meter with custom placement and the camera will take an exposure reading just before initiating a shot.

In LV "Live", AF will also be made at the location of the magnification rectangle, as it is contrast detect. But in LV "Quick" the AF points will be used as this is the normal Phase detect AF mechanism. Thus in LV Quick, AF location and exposure metering can be a very different places in the frame.

Mike K
There are a couple of problems with this, one, in low contrast situations, LV focus underperforms, to say the least and two, in situations involving red light (not that I can think of a red lighted situation that might call for spot metering (no hooker jokes, please!)) LV focus has it's own set of problems.
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Perhaps you are discussing Live View "Liver" AF which is contrast detect. However, I am suggesting Live View "Quick" which uses the normal phase detect AF sensor and AF points. You can select a single point or let the camera select, then when pressing AF the mirror will momentarily flip down and the camera will AF with performance equivalent to normal Phase Detect AF. The only major difference in performance is that the exposure reading will come from the sensor, in the magnify rectangle region. Thus you can move the exposure area about the frame.

LV "Live" AF is contrast based and has its own disadvantages, some of which you note. It certainly is slower too. However it has some advantages: you can move focus about in the frame, focusing on subjects at the frames edge if desired. LV Live also will work at f8 lens combinations with no pin taping.
Mike K
 
The spot meter should be linked to the AF point.
Yes, one should have that option. But you don't and won't.
I hope they can and do fix this in firmware, though I don't know why they wouldn't have done this in the first place.
This is a trivial firmware fix. But Canon won't do it. They appear to be very stubborn about things like this. They've only ever done it on the 1D/1Ds series. It ain't gonna happen on the 5D3. If you really need this, wait for Magic Lantern to come to the 5D3.
Probably not a trivial firmware fix. I think the high end Nikons can all do this because they all share the approx 100,000 pixel metering sensor. Since te 5d3 only has a 63 "zone" sensor, I suspect they specially placed a small zone near the center to do spot metering. If so, the zones elsewhere in the frame won't be small enough to spot meter. Just guessing. Could be wrong.

Does the 1DX allow spot metering linked to focus point?
 
How about Live View? In LV the exposure is determined from the placement of magnification rectangle, which you can move over nearly the entire frame. Its like a rather large spot meter with custom placement and the camera will take an exposure reading just before initiating a shot.

In LV "Live", AF will also be made at the location of the magnification rectangle, as it is contrast detect. But in LV "Quick" the AF points will be used as this is the normal Phase detect AF mechanism. Thus in LV Quick, AF location and exposure metering can be a very different places in the frame.

Mike K
There are a couple of problems with this, one, in low contrast situations, LV focus underperforms, to say the least and two, in situations involving red light (not that I can think of a red lighted situation that might call for spot metering (no hooker jokes, please!)) LV focus has it's own set of problems.
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Perhaps you are discussing Live View "Liver" AF which is contrast detect. However, I am suggesting Live View "Quick" which uses the normal phase detect AF sensor and AF points. You can select a single point or let the camera select, then when pressing AF the mirror will momentarily flip down and the camera will AF with performance equivalent to normal Phase Detect AF. The only major difference in performance is that the exposure reading will come from the sensor, in the magnify rectangle region. Thus you can move the exposure area about the frame.

LV "Live" AF is contrast based and has its own disadvantages, some of which you note. It certainly is slower too. However it has some advantages: you can move focus about in the frame, focusing on subjects at the frames edge if desired. LV Live also will work at f8 lens combinations with no pin taping.
Mike K
Indeed I was, but how does "Quick" differ" You can't have LV without the mirror flipped up, and you can't have normal AF with it flipped up, can you? (Asking, not arguing, by the way...)
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Skip M
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http://skipm.smugmug.com/
http://skipmiddletonglamourshooter.blogspot.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart
 
For the most part I don't think many would really notice in real world photography.

In fact, I would go so far as to say the only people who would notice are the pixel peepers.
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Moderator wannabe !
 
I think I like putting the * button on AE Lock-Hold. I think that will work well for me in a variety of situations. Thanks.
Don't focus and recompose, AE-lock and recompose, then use your selected AF point to focus and shoot. That's what I do.
Set the camera up with "back button focusing" with the shutter half-press set to "AE lock (while button pressed)". Then spot meter with the shutter button half-pressed and held, then focus. The metering will be locked as long as you half-press or fully press the shutter. To keep that meter setting after you shoot make sure you keep the button half-pressed after a shot.

Alternatively, set the shutter button to anything other than AE lock. And set the * button to "AE lock (hold)". In this scenario once you lock with the * it will automatically hold until you press * again.
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Peter
 
Perhaps I'm doing it wrongly for decades, but if I need to spotmeter, I usally look for some nuetral colored area with about the right amount of light, metere there, lock it and then focus on whatever I want to have in focus. Very seldom those two spots (lightness and focus) are in the same spot.

So, for me this is an non-issue, but of course, canon should implement it, since it possible (and the mark III is not the cheapest cam).
 

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