J&R Warning

I meant to say 'before he sent the Nikon back'.

And that's even harder to believe; Nikon has been cranking out 50/1.4s for, what...75 years now? Their QC is very good, particularly w/their optics they make in house (some of the P&S cams are made in big 'master' factories that make many different brands).

The cost of doing business with you is too high. So they want to irritate you and make you not to order anything from them.

Are you saying you returned all of these items for a refund rather than asking for a replacement? Please explain why you didn't ask for a replacement. It is people like you who make things difficult for the rest of us.

Best refund policy is Amazon. After that, B&H & Adorama. Other reputable dealers, such as Unique Photo, have policies similar to J&R.

cmorse said:

Hate to say it but they are right about that being a high return rate. If you're returning everything outright rather than exchanging it for the same item then their reaction isn't all that surprising. There are plenty of people these days that "buy" cameras/lenses for vacations and then return them.

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Agree. having worked in retail, I found ( a very small number of ) people buying stuff for vacation, then try to return the heavily used items for a refund.

Others were inconsolable; not liking anything we had. We politely suggested they shop elsewhere.

Having dealt with J&R on multiple occasions, I can recommend them, their products, expertise and staff.

Of course...it was 'deemed defective' by the purchaser, who failed to tell us (did he tell JR?) what he 'felt' was wrong with one of Nikons most ubiquitous, high-end lenses.

Sorry, the more I read & think about this, the more I'm convinced there's a WHOLE lot we're not hearing. After all his returns...how on EARTH could he not know their return policy by rote?

How could he send it back without contacting them first, explaining the problem, learning if he'd get charged the restock fee & if he then still wanted to return it, getting a Ret. Auth. #?

PJInTheUSA said:

If the goods were faulty and you returned - talk to your CC company. They will sort it out. J&R don't want a 'high return' rate with the cc companies.

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whoodle said:

Of course...it was 'deemed defective' by the purchaser, who failed to tell us (did he tell JR?) what he 'felt' was wrong with one of Nikons most ubiquitous, high-end lenses.

Sorry, the more I read & think about this, the more I'm convinced there's a WHOLE lot we're not hearing. After all his returns...how on EARTH could he not know their return policy by rote?

How could he send it back without contacting them first, explaining the problem, learning if he'd get charged the restock fee & if he then still wanted to return it, getting a Ret. Auth. #?

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You're making a lot of assumptions. Of course I know J&R's return policy. And of course I contacted them before returning the item. And of course I explained to them what was wrong with the lens.

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Fabian

MichaelKJ said:

Are you saying you returned all of these items for a refund rather than asking for a replacement? Please explain why you didn't ask for a replacement. It is people like you who make things difficult for the rest of us.

Best refund policy is Amazon. After that, B&H & Adorama. Other reputable dealers, such as Unique Photo, have policies similar to J&R.

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Simple, the items were out of stock. Otherwise I would have asked for a replacement.

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Fabian

szlevi said:

You should have just taken it back from them then get an RMA from the lens manufacturer and have them repair/fix it, it's simple as that.

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Maybe we misunderstand each other. That's what I asked for, but they refused.

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Fabian

I agree with the others in this thread. You are making too many returns and costing the retailer too much money. Take your business elsewhere and don't post J&R 'warnings'. I've had nothing but good experiences with them.

Did you try to bump things up the corporate ladder? Asking them to return the lens to you, with shipping at your expense, seems like a reasonable solution and a better one than charging you a restocking fee. I've usually found that if I become a squeaky enough wheel, they will supply the grease.

That having been said, both Amazon and B&H have had generous return policies for defective merchandise. I have bought from J&R with no problem, but I usually stick with Amazon, B&H, or occasionally Adorama.

fabgo said:

MrScorpio said:

Sorry to say that you do seem too picky in this case. Some customers are just not worth satisfying since they will just go on and on no matter what.

I dont mean to push you down in any way, I just say that from the retailers point of view, maybe you are not exactly what they need to put effort into if you just return most of your purchases anyway...

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Agreed, Marcus. I don't have a problem with them not wanting me as a customer, although I will say both me and them have just been unlucky. I intended to keep every item I bought (otherwise why would I buy them?).

What I do have a problem with is charging me a 15% restocking fee for a lens they decide is good (how do these guys test anyway?), while refusing my offer to take the lens back. I don't see why they wouldn't do that as it should be a win-win situation for then.

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Fabian

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I purchased a new Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM from J&R a couple years back. Took a while for them to ship, and when I got the lens about 3 weeks later, it was obviously used and had a scratched front element. Not happy I arranged for an RMA; I had to pay return shipping, and a few emails and a month and a half later of them trying to get more shipping money from me, they finally sent another lens. Thankfully that copy was new and is the sharpest copy of this lens I've personally seen.

I've only bought one other thing from J&R, a new Canon 1.4x TC which was purchased a week or so before the 70-200, and that also appeared used. But it wasn't scratched and cleaned up like new. I sent a fairly polite but sternly worded e-mail about it and never got a reply.

No other lenses I have purchased from any other non-eBay seller have appeared in the shape as the ones I got from J&R. This includes a couple of Canon refurbished lenses.

(I've only been disappointed with one lens purchase on eBay, a Panny 20/1.7 from a dishonest seller, but the lens technically works fine and cleaned up. I know shouldn't be so disappointed. But this thread isn't about eBay...)

Importantly, I do not do business with J&R anymore after that crap. I'm just thankful it mostly worked out.

phototransformations said:

Did you try to bump things up the corporate ladder? Asking them to return the lens to you, with shipping at your expense, seems like a reasonable solution and a better one than charging you a restocking fee. I've usually found that if I become a squeaky enough wheel, they will supply the grease.

That having been said, both Amazon and B&H have had generous return policies for defective merchandise. I have bought from J&R with no problem, but I usually stick with Amazon, B&H, or occasionally Adorama.

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I did ask to speak with a manager. He was very disagreeable and implied that I was being dishonest. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that offering to take the lens back, with shipping at my expense, would have been a fair solution.

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Fabian

I agree, you have both been unlucky.

There certainly are "entitled" customers who cause endless trouble and simply cannot see that they are more effort than they are worth to the retailer, and it is your misfortune that you've ended up looking like that.

Clearly the X lens does have an issue, and it was entirely reasonable to return it. However, with three expensive items returned, I can see why the retailer wants you to simply go away, and I'd do the same.

Not shipping the lens back to you is a bit mean.

fabgo said:

phototransformations said:

Did you try to bump things up the corporate ladder? Asking them to return the lens to you, with shipping at your expense, seems like a reasonable solution and a better one than charging you a restocking fee. I've usually found that if I become a squeaky enough wheel, they will supply the grease.

That having been said, both Amazon and B&H have had generous return policies for defective merchandise. I have bought from J&R with no problem, but I usually stick with Amazon, B&H, or occasionally Adorama.

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I did ask to speak with a manager. He was very disagreeable and implied that I was being dishonest. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that offering to take the lens back, with shipping at my expense, would have been a fair solution.

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Fabian

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
http://thegentlemansnapper.blogspot.com

If you continue to be dissatisfied, write to the head of customer service.

Using wording like "unprofessional response" and "I would prefer not to have to escalate this" seems to get action with the unfriendly return situations I've encountered. The only times I've recently had an issue were with a G3 that Panasonic Service initially identified as not having a problem but after escalation one bump up the ladder (and implying that I would next go to consumer affairs) replaced (it had dust spots either sitting on the AA filter or on the underside of the SSWF filter) and ReImage, which failed to fix a VSS problem. In both cases, bumping the complaint up the ladder to someone in a position to make an exception, and using wording like the above with said person, did the trick.

Although they may not want you as a customer anymore, they certainly don't want you as an angry ex-customer making a lot of noise on the Internet, filing complaints with the BBB or AG in NY, or any of the escalations that are possible, and it would be easier for them to send you the lens back or replace it if they are reminded that you may do that instead of going away quietly.

fabgo said:

phototransformations said:

Did you try to bump things up the corporate ladder? Asking them to return the lens to you, with shipping at your expense, seems like a reasonable solution and a better one than charging you a restocking fee. I've usually found that if I become a squeaky enough wheel, they will supply the grease.

That having been said, both Amazon and B&H have had generous return policies for defective merchandise. I have bought from J&R with no problem, but I usually stick with Amazon, B&H, or occasionally Adorama.

Click to expand...

I did ask to speak with a manager. He was very disagreeable and implied that I was being dishonest. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that offering to take the lens back, with shipping at my expense, would have been a fair solution.

--
Fabian

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fabgo said:

cmorse said:

Hate to say it but they are right about that being a high return rate. If you're returning everything outright rather than exchanging it for the same item then their reaction isn't all that surprising. There are plenty of people these days that "buy" cameras/lenses for vacations and then return them. That 15% restocking fee is to make up for them now having to sell the items as "open box" rather than new, which is what they have to do if they check the lens as don't find anything obviously wrong with it. Checking for decentering isn't likely to be a test they do. A lot of stores will eventually put frequent returners like on a no sell list completely since it costs them more to sell to you than they make off of what you buy.

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I don't have any problem with being put on a no-sell list. I have a problem with them not accepting my offer of returning the lens back to me. That sounds like a win-win to me.

Also, it's hard to exchange items like the Panasonic 25mm and the Nikon 35mm f/1.4 when they are chronically out of stock.

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Fabian

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While I understand this sucks for you I can understand why the store would refuse to send it back to you. Rightly or wrongly you've been labeled as a problem customer who they believe is out to cheat them. It doesn't sound like that's the case but that's how they view you now. They are probably afraid that if the send it back to you you'll try something like disputing the charge with your credit card company the moment its in your hands or damaging it in a more noteworthy fashion (9v to the contacts on the lens mount?) so that you could try returning it again without the restocking fee.

If I buy from a brick and mortar store, I can return stuff no questions asked, and for any reason. The only issue is whether I have damaged the item.

The OP should expect the same policy from an online vendor - particularly as society shifts towards online transactions. There should also be no presumption that a purchaser should only return things for exchange. The return policy for a lens purchased online should be no different than a book purchased in a brick and mortar store.

Moreover, I say this as someone who never returns anything.
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http://jcharding.zenfolio.com/

cmorse said:

While I understand this sucks for you I can understand why the store would refuse to send it back to you. Rightly or wrongly you've been labeled as a problem customer who they believe is out to cheat them. It doesn't sound like that's the case but that's how they view you now. They are probably afraid that if the send it back to you you'll try something like disputing the charge with your credit card company the moment its in your hands or damaging it in a more noteworthy fashion (9v to the contacts on the lens mount?) so that you could try returning it again without the restocking fee.

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That's a good point. I hadn't thought of that. I find the whole thing really bizarre. I think I have been spoiled by the excellent return policy offered by B&H and Amazon.

I guess I'll chalk this up as a learning experience and keep giving those two stores my business. I have purchased (and kept) three cameras, six lenses and numerous accessories over the last three months, with more on order, so it's not like I am this bum customer J&R, and perhaps some on this forum, seem to think.

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Fabian

Well I've been ordering from B&H since way before the internet. Cameras, lenses accessories...usually quite a few orders a year. I've never returned anything, always thought out what I wanted...but then the last two orders were defective, one a used lens for not too much money, and the second thing a slide/negative replication device. The lens was unusable, and had very bad focusing problems. The slide/negative device wouldn't even turn on. In both cases I contacted B&H for an RMA and THEY even paid the postage...which is the first time I've had any online retailer do that. (the lens they gave me my money back on - the slide/negative device they exchanged - both no questions asked except what was wrong) So it CAN happen that a person can get a streak of bad luck when ordering.
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http://www.pbase.com/madlights
http://barriolson.aminus3.com/

Of course it can happen. I got a bogus 18-200 Nikkor from KEH and shortly afterward a Tokina 12-24 that had obviously been dropped before it got put into the UPS box at B&H. In both cases I ended up getting the lenses serviced rather than exchanged because I registered them before I knew there was a problem. Now I test. After my G3 experience with Panasonic Service, I'm putting cameras through rigorous testing before I register them, too. Much easier to exchange defective equipment, most of the time, than to get it repaired (though I sure wish manufacturers were better with QC--these days it seems like an unusually high percentage of the stuff I buy new is defective in some way).

Lights said:

Well I've been ordering from B&H since way before the internet. Cameras, lenses accessories...usually quite a few orders a year. I've never returned anything, always thought out what I wanted...but then the last two orders were defective, one a used lens for not too much money, and the second thing a slide/negative replication device. The lens was unusable, and had very bad focusing problems. The slide/negative device wouldn't even turn on. In both cases I contacted B&H for an RMA and THEY even paid the postage...which is the first time I've had any online retailer do that. (the lens they gave me my money back on - the slide/negative device they exchanged - both no questions asked except what was wrong) So it CAN happen that a person can get a streak of bad luck when ordering.
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http://www.pbase.com/madlights
http://barriolson.aminus3.com/

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phototransformations said:

Of course it can happen. I got a bogus 18-200 Nikkor from KEH and shortly afterward a Tokina 12-24 that had obviously been dropped before it got put into the UPS box at B&H. In both cases I ended up getting the lenses serviced rather than exchanged because I registered them before I knew there was a problem. Now I test. After my G3 experience with Panasonic Service, I'm putting cameras through rigorous testing before I register them, too. Much easier to exchange defective equipment, most of the time, than to get it repaired (though I sure wish manufacturers were better with QC--these days it seems like an unusually high percentage of the stuff I buy new is defective in some way).

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My sister and I have a standing joke about that with me and computers....It usually takes me three tries to get one that works right ....With my last two desktops, it took that, and for at least two of my past laptops it has also (although my current laptop, a small Samsung, was fine out of the box)....

With cameras and lenses I think there is a fair bit of sample to sample variation. The EPL1 and G2 I had were fine from day one, but the first GH2 I had, over the first week I used it, started to not focus where the focus point was aimed, no matter what lens I used. Panasonic exchanged that, and the replacement focused perfectly but had really bad AWB, which I did not realize until I sold it some months later and then got another one (don't ask), which now both focuses correctly AND has good color.....

The GF3 I have was perfect out of the box, but a G3 I tried before that had a terrible copy of the kit lens, so I had to return the whole thing.....

My first copy of the 100-300 lens was just a little too fuzzy at the long end, so B&H exchanged it. The one I have now is fine.

All the Oly lenses I have had have been very good, except for a refurb copy of the 9-18 which I bought then returned because the mount was warped (I didn't bother to get another copy of that one)....but it was a refurb already, so I expected it to maybe have a problem.

These are complex mechanical, electronic, and optical devices, so there are lots of places where things can go wrong, and I actually expect problems....so I also spend some time evaluating them during the return period, so I can return them if necessary.

Usually, if things are working and stay working for the first couple of weeks, they are ok for the long run. When electronics fail due to manufacturing or QC issues, it tends to be early, or DOA kind of stuff. If get a good one, you are usually good to go for a while afterwards.

-J