NEF and Lightroom - Why the images look terrible

ignore or not, you don't know what you're talking about.

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OK, not so purely a hobby.

I also just bring directly into Lightroom.

Maybe 85% of the time leave white balance "as shot" which I think Lightroom does import.

Then I delete the obvious non-keepers, the ones that are left, I just hit "auto" and see how Lightroom reacts. And sometimes undo that if its not the direction I imagined. Usually from there I boost the shadows, maybe a bit of contrast and saturation, the reevaluate.

I'm a fan of moody, dark blue skies so I adjust the blues luminance down and saturation up.

Sometimes I add a bit of clarity.

Maybe it's a bit over processed for some tastes, but I really like the feel of these photos.









--
Ridicule is not C&C nor is it being helpful nor "stating your opinion"
http://www.flickr.com/InTheMist

Mako2011 said:

NikonGuyChicago said:

Thank you for the info.

So, is there a point in getting an expensive lens that is very sharp, if the Lighroom does not display it as sharp as it should look? The NEF should be sharp, but it’s not when imported into Lighroom.

So, does it mean I should be using SHARPENING feature in Lighroom? So, maybe I should get a not so sharp lens and use the program to enhance it.

Click to expand...

You seem to not understand sharpening as it's being used in this case. Take your Picture controls settings in camera and set "zero" for sharpening. Take a Raw pic and import that into ViewNX2 and Lightroom. I think you will find that both are equally not sharp but an accurate representation of lens and sensor. Remember, in viewNX2 you have to jump a few hurtles to actually see the NEF generated image with no in camera sharpening applied....in Lightroom you do not. Some see that as a Lightroom advantage.

Click to expand...

NikonGuyChicago:

For heaven's sake, no...even the sharpest lens will look somewhat soft WHEN YOU TURN OFF THE DEFAULT CAPTURE SETTINGS in Lightroom, or Capture NX2, or fiddledeedee V2.
And a soft lens can't be gussied up in post processing. Lost data is lost data.

I'm beginning to think that you're not really interested in understanding about how Lightroom works within the full-blown RAW post processing flow that it's designed to support, but rather just want something that allows you to view your images on your computer without a lot of fuss or bother. Fair enough. Use the free View NX2 software that came with your Nikon, or just upload your image files to your computer and edit them on Capture NX2. You'll get what you want.

But if you really want to use Lightroom with all its cool Datbasing and easy interoperability with Photoshop, you'll have to accept the entry fee to play - and that means understanding how postprocessing workflow works and setting up your import settings the way you like them. And yes, that 2nd requirement is because Nikon doesn't really want you to use Lightroom, so it doesn't divulge its Picture settings and feature algorithms (which includes sharpening). The result? They get you to buy Capture NX2 because it's easier, up to a point.

The other alternative would be to switch camera brands because they work better in Lightroom out of the box. That would be expensive and not necessarily productive.

Greetings,

There are many workflow paths one could take to process their photos. In my opinion your colleagues are right: for best results do convert NEF using Nikon software. In the end this is the faster approach because you see the images on screen just as you saw them when you took them on the camera's LCD, and all Nikon's internal settings are honored.

My own workflow begins this way:

1. Take less photos, but take better ones.

2. Expose as correctly as possible. This is the most critical step. Remember this when beginning to postprocess: garbage-in = garbage-out. Make sure your photos look their best from the very beginning.
3. Delete unsatisfactory images right there in the field during short breaks.

4. When at home connect the camera to your HDTV via the HDMI cable, and delete some more images you are not completely happy with, or see no potential in after you postprocess. Don't delete ones though that you are still not sure about.

5. Import the remaining ones to Lightroom. Do comparisons among similar files, and still mark as rejected the files you are not happy with.
6. Export the remainder as "Originals" into a separate folder.

7. Open that folder in Nikon Capture NX2 and do any corrections necessary. Because these are your best images, and exposed correctly, the corrections should be really quick and minor. Nikon Capture NX2 needs a fast hard drive for best performance, solid state would be nice.

8. Export them afterwards as full size 16-bit TIFF. Again a fast hard drive will save you time. They will have the original colors you saw on your camera's LCD.

9. Reimport them into Lightroom and go from there. You can apply more manual corrections there, plugins, or export further to PS.

10. In the end export as JPG and mark the project for your desired output, like printing, web, etc.

11. Print when you are ready - what meaning does your photography have, if it isn't displayed somewhere, hopefully in print, or at least online?

Out of all of those steps, step 2, taking the photos correctly is the most labor intensive. This is where you kind of pre-determine your "keeper" images.

Best of luck and don't give up.

I think its more efficient to let the camera set it (generally) by choosing auto and then adjusting in LR, if warranted. Often, the camera does a good job and the scene modes are more critical.

Mako2011 said:

Reilly Diefenbach said:

You must shoot the card, then use the eyedropper and synch up the rest of the pics in the series. The four color one for CS5 is good for critical work if you want to get really fussy and use curves. As Kelby says, it's not infallible, if you don't like what the camera throws up you've got to adjust to taste.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the clarification. I do prefer to simply set it in camera (have to note when light changes though) vs keep a card in one of the frames to use with eyedropper. I think a "both" approach might be called for if the work is critical. Amazing what one can do now with a simple NEF...good time to be a picture taker Thanks again and have a great day.

Click to expand...

--
OK, not so purely a hobby.

InTheMist said:

Click to expand...

Very nice Trials pic!

Mako2011 said:

Reilly Diefenbach said:

You must shoot the card, then use the eyedropper and synch up the rest of the pics in the series. The four color one for CS5 is good for critical work if you want to get really fussy and use curves. As Kelby says, it's not infallible, if you don't like what the camera throws up you've got to adjust to taste.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the clarification. I do prefer to simply set it in camera (have to note when light changes though) vs keep a card in one of the frames to use with eyedropper. I think a "both" approach might be called for if the work is critical. Amazing what one can do now with a simple NEF...good time to be a picture taker Thanks again and have a great day.

Click to expand...

Just to further clarify this point further, you can do either and get the same result: set a custom WB in-camera using a grey card, or take a shot including a grey card and adjust with the eye dropper in ACR/LR. Either way, you'll get the same WB reading and you can sync it across multiple images from the same shoot. It's just a matter of taste as to which method you prefer (I often get lazy and just grab a shot of the card as it's quicker than setting custom WB in-camera, but not by much).

A while ago I did some testing, purely out of interest, to see if there was much variation between the in-camera and eye dropper WB readings (values measured in ACR): they were bang-on; the only variation I noticed was in one set of shots where the tint value was different by 1 point (or whatever the scale is for tint!) - and one point is pretty much neglible IMO.

Of course, accurate WB isn't always what you want in an image: like Reilly says, adjust to taste.

M

NikonGuyChicago said:

Thank you for the info.

So, is there a point in getting an expensive lens that is very sharp, if the Lighroom does not display it as sharp as it should look? The NEF should be sharp, but it’s not when imported into Lighroom.

So, does it mean I should be using SHARPENING feature in Lighroom? So, maybe I should get a not so sharp lens and use the program to enhance it.

Click to expand...

At this point, you need to find out how sharpening works - and that you cannot add sharpening to an image from a unsharp lens.

Also know that the final image sharpening is added during the LR output stage.

I shoot various cameras, import into LR, process and have a number of presets (more than 30) that I can use to output for printing various sizes on matt or gloss paper, posting to my pbase account, viewing in various sizes with an without borders.

--
Leo Theron, South Africa
.... see my images at http://www.pbase.com/leot

With all of the emphatic advice given here to take the time to learn how to use LR, I'm wondering if anyone has any Develop presets that they use for D7000 NEFs that work for them on a relatively consistent basis - especially for LR4 (since I just picked that up today). If so, please share!!

And no, I'm not talking about simply picking one of the Camera Calibration profiles - I usually find I can get better results in LR3 starting from Adobe Standard - the Nikon camera profiles all look weirdly unappealing to my eyes. But if they are better in LR4, or if starting with one of the camera profiles is part of a larger recipe of Develop presets, I'm totally open to using them.

Hoping I don't have to unlearn much coming from LR3 to get LR4 results I'm happy with. (And yes, I'll be getting the Kelby book)

Thanks in advance for any Develop preset tips!

I have my picture control set on my camera and use Capture NX2 to batch process the raws to tiffs. Then open them with ACR.

Why not use DxO Optics ,easy yet you have bought worlds.
Profiles are in modules you can download.

here are some pictures with DxO Optics.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/marnix_claus/sets/72157629443216540/detail/

--
My english is poor.Try to Understand
Nikon D70s,Nikon D90,LX3,DP-1 FZ38 FZ100 G11 S95
http://www.flickr.com/photos/73737307@N00/sets/
Claus M

Shoot JPEG. The fact is that not everything is for everyone.

Have the x-rite Color Passport Pro.

Probably why everything id dead on for me.

I keep forgetting that I have this it has been so long since I created my profiles it is automatic now.

Thanks for reminding me....its an important peice of the color managment puzzle. Kit is under $100.00, you only have to buy it once, after that you can calibrate ANY camera you have.

Roman
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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious; It is the source of all true art and science.
~ Albert Einstein

http://www.commercialfineart.com/

http://www.pbase.com/romansphotos/

Probably not worth using, or even commenting on, Lightroom, until you've read a good book about it. Scott Kelby has a good one that you should use side by side the program.

The x-rite color checker is definitely worth using for any adobe products that use ACR.

Roman

lovetotravel said:

Probably not worth using, or even commenting on, Lightroom, until you've read a good book about it. Scott Kelby has a good one that you should use side by side the program.

Click to expand...

--

The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious; It is the source of all true art and science.
~ Albert Einstein

http://www.commercialfineart.com/

http://www.pbase.com/romansphotos/

RomanJohnston said:

The x-rite color checker is definitely worth using for any adobe products that use ACR.

Roman

lovetotravel said:

Probably not worth using, or even commenting on, Lightroom, until you've read a good book about it. Scott Kelby has a good one that you should use side by side the program.

Click to expand...

--

The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious; It is the source of all true art and science.
~ Albert Einstein

http://www.commercialfineart.com/

http://www.pbase.com/romansphotos/

Click to expand...

Poorly constructed sentence. LIGHTROOM should not be used or commented on until one has read a good book about it. Or has completed one of the many classes offered.

I have been using LR for years, versions 2 and 3, and just picked up 4 yesterday. So I'm quite familiar with how it works. However, I'm always open to learning more from people who may have discovered different things about it - especially since the new LR4 interface is different, and the settings from LR3 don't translate over.

What I would like to know, particularly from such experts as those who have the attitude of 'it's not even worth discussing LR until you've read the books/taken the classes/become one with the mind of the Adobe gurus' is: do you use Develop pre-sets in LR4, and if so, would you please share what they are so others can have the benefit of your experience to try out and see if they work for us as well?

I agree with both sides of the argument in this whole thread - that, yes, sure, it'd be great if LR would translate NEFs so they look more like what appears in the camera's LCD from the start (as i've said, I think LRs Nikon camera profiles are lame) - and I'm also totally on board with using the great tool that LR is to get the results I want, which I've been doing for a long time. But if someone has reliable Develop presets that speeds their process, I'd love to know what they are to try them out for myself. Pretty simple - and something that even beginners to LR might appreciate!

A JPEG image (in basic quality) is already stored along with the NEF image! It’s embedded as the preview image.

What I wanted to say, it is not a RAW image which you see in a LCD, it is a basic JPEG. Regarding Lightroom, it's the best piece of software for managing and editing RAW files. You just need to know how to use it.

I don't get all the fuss.

Use whatever editor/converter program that works for you and you find logical to use. End of story.

As for general railings against other software packages, a little humility may be in order. Obviously Adobe sells the snot out of Lightroom/ACR/Pshop so it must be that at least some people can manage to create compelling pictures with them...

-Suntan