Why is DXO taking so long on the EM5?

"On screen, small prints" is irrelevant to me. I do large prints.

I've yet to see anything from the Fuji that makes me think it will make more attractive large prints than the OM-D.

The only camera I have seen that has a significant advantage is the D800, which has exceptional res (purely thanks to its exceptional pixel count).
That will be very interesting Terry, to be honest, I'm quite surprised/disappointed in the reports I've seen by X-Pro 1 + E-M5 owners that IQ is comparable with the X-Pro 1 - I'm pretty much convinced there's a significant difference in sensor quality.
I wholeheartedly second that. However the difference is not monumental. At the pixel level there is no contest (the XP1's photosites are very roughly 50% larger after all) - but for all practical purposes (on screen, small prints) its not a landslide victory for the Fuji.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
http://thegentlemansnapper.blogspot.com
 
Or Detail Man and Raist3d have threatened to mutually measurebate in front of the MD if the results are positive.
... they're waiting for permission from Canon and Nikon to post the outstanding results (or so it would seem).
 
I'm interested in the D800, simply as a benchmark of excellence - the size, weight and cost of FF makes it an irrelevant dinosaur in all other respects... to a photography enthusiast, not a working pro of course.
Can't say I agree with that.Not as a sweeping generalisation about 'photography enthusiasts' as a whole as you seem to have done. If you had chosen 'mostly uncaring, casual snapper', then it probably would have been correct, however the term 'enthusiast' implies someone who's enthusiastic about cameras and the performance, handling and results that a conventional FF camera gives you is still leagues ahead of MFT in many, many areas.
...except the essential areas of portability (even 'wearability') and being unobtrusive. As a photography enthusiast, being able to live with a camera nearby without freaking out your subjects (friends, family etc) is a major feature.
This kind of comment always interests and puzzles me, because I have a bit of a photo gear fetish, and I can't say my friends or family have ever been freaked out by any of my cameras, from a 35mm film P&S to a film SLR to a digital P&S to a bridge cam to four thirds consumer DSLRs to four thirds pro cameras with battery grips to a Nikon D2H and D700 ... and now a G2 and NEX3. If anything, the bigger the camera, the more interested they are in being photographed by it or in having me shoot their kids or pets with it! This has been true in both Japan and the U.S.

In my experience, the only time DSLRs have sort of failed as social cameras is when I've handed them over to someone to take a picture of me. Most people these days don't seem to understand that you have to look through the little hole instead of framing with the back LCD! It's also a bit of a pain explaining how to focus, as I usually have the AF assigned to another button. Some people are put off by the size and weight of an SLR, but these are usually people who are not interested in cameras to begin with. Probably just as many others are excited to try their hand at shooting with a big "pro" camera.
Sure, MFT is fantastic as a lightweight option, but everyone is kidding themselves if you don't accept that you're making (sometimes large) compromises in other areas.
Where do you see the compromise being made? current m4/3rds IQ is not a limitation, neither is AF speed.
Oh, I think there are definitely limitations, particularly if you shoot moving subjects. Improvements have been made in the AF, and MFT is usable and even fast in more and more situations, but you can't look at just the camera body. You have to take the system as a whole, and the current MFT lens choices for action shooters are paltry at best. Where's the MFT body that can track moving subjects with the 150/2, 35-100/2, 90-250/2.8, 300/2.8, or even 50-200? Will we ever see similar fast telephoto lenses made for the MFT format?

Action shooters also need good noise performance, and again, four thirds has been making strides in this area as well, but it's still not even close to being on par with something like the D800, if that's the benchmark you want to use. In fact, I've seen a lot of E-M5 images that make me wince compared even to the output from my ancient D700. I'm not talking ISO 25600 but as low as ISO 400 and sometimes even lower. The fault may be with the user's exposure and processing, as many or most MFT low-ISO images look fine, but I'm struggling to think of an everyday scenario where I could screw up badly enough to make a low- to mid-ISO D700 image look noisy at web size.

That's not a slam against the four thirds format, it's just a fact of life that there are always going to be situations in which a smaller sensor is going to struggle compared to a larger one. For most people, it's worth the tradeoff in size/weight, which is the "compromise" Ga was talking about, but the fact that most people rarely run up against the relative limitations doesn't mean they don't exist. That's why FF is still very far from being "an irrelevant dinosaur," even for a lot of enthusiasts.

Julie
 
Maybe they don't want to hurt sales until all the hype wears off
Why would DxO care about the sales figures for any particular camera?
If I was Olympus ... I'd have slipped the DxO testing guys a couple of bucks to hold off publishing the results until all the pre-orders had been shipped ;-)
Whatever Olympus can slip, Sony, Nikon and Canon will be able to do 10 times more, that is 30 times just from those three. ;) ;)
 
"On screen, small prints" is irrelevant to me. I do large prints.

I've yet to see anything from the Fuji that makes me think it will make more attractive large prints than the OM-D.
What you are able to see it not the criteria on which things work in world. You were not able to see the difference between D3 and GH2 also, that says a lot about your ability to see.

Further people do not buy things based on what is relevant to you. You are full of yourself.
The only camera I have seen that has a significant advantage is the D800, which has exceptional res (purely thanks to its exceptional pixel count).
That will be very interesting Terry, to be honest, I'm quite surprised/disappointed in the reports I've seen by X-Pro 1 + E-M5 owners that IQ is comparable with the X-Pro 1 - I'm pretty much convinced there's a significant difference in sensor quality.
I wholeheartedly second that. However the difference is not monumental. At the pixel level there is no contest (the XP1's photosites are very roughly 50% larger after all) - but for all practical purposes (on screen, small prints) its not a landslide victory for the Fuji.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
http://thegentlemansnapper.blogspot.com
--
::> I make spelling mistakes. May Dog forgive me for this.
 
  • Second email sent just in case ... this way they see that I am really interested
I had always considered you to be more level headed. Oh well.
Name: Aleo Veuliah

Email Address: [email protected]
It is never a good idea to post your email address in the open on an internet forum. This leaves you open to the spammers searching for email addresses to spam.

--

The greatest of mankind's criminals are those who delude themselves into thinking they have done 'the right thing.'
  • Rayna Butler
 
  • Second email sent just in case ... this way they see that I am really interested
I had always considered you to be more level headed. Oh well.
Name: Aleo Veuliah

Email Address: [email protected]
It is never a good idea to post your email address in the open on an internet forum. This leaves you open to the spammers searching for email addresses to spam.
Indeed it is, but I have a good filter, anyway that email is visible to users here on Dpreview, I have that email for the sites only, but you are right , I should think better about this ...
--

The greatest of mankind's criminals are those who delude themselves into thinking they have done 'the right thing.'
  • Rayna Butler
--
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

God is the tangential point between zero and infinity.

Imagination is more important than knowledge.

God always take the simplest way.
 
I'm certain they'll get right on it. On second thought, maybe you should offer them some kind of bribe to work faster. :p

PS: Do you know how much time I waste checking emails ever day? And I got a real good spam filter!
  • Second email sent just in case ... this way they see that I am really interested
Contact us

Thank you for your feedback.

Name: Aleo Veuliah

Email Address: [email protected]

Subject: Olympus OM-D EM-5 tests

Message: Hello, I am wondering why DX0 is taking some time to post the tests of the OMD EM5 Regards, Aleo

--
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

God is the tangential point between zero and infinity.

Imagination is more important than knowledge.

God always take the simplest way.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/photography-by-thomas/
 
I'll make a prediction. When the DxO results come out, things like the DR graphs will show that the differences between the EM5 sensor and the current panasonic one will be absolutely minuscule compared to the difference between it and the D800.
Safest prediction ever?

I'll go a couple steps further and predict that DxOmark testing will show that the E-M5 sensor is the G3/GX1 sensor.

--
http://aminsabet.com
 
I'm certain they'll get right on it. On second thought, maybe you should offer them some kind of bribe to work faster. :p

PS: Do you know how much time I waste checking emails ever day? And I got a real good spam filter!
I believe, but the strange is that even with the email showing here and on a few sites, I don't get much spam, I wonder why, on the Gmail one, I got much more but Gmail has a good filter, mostly I only have to empty the spam folder
  • Second email sent just in case ... this way they see that I am really interested
Contact us

Thank you for your feedback.

Name: Aleo Veuliah

Email Address: [email protected]

Subject: Olympus OM-D EM-5 tests

Message: Hello, I am wondering why DX0 is taking some time to post the tests of the OMD EM5 Regards, Aleo

--
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

God is the tangential point between zero and infinity.

Imagination is more important than knowledge.

God always take the simplest way.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/photography-by-thomas/
--
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

God is the tangential point between zero and infinity.

Imagination is more important than knowledge.

God always take the simplest way.
 
I'll make a prediction. When the DxO results come out, things like the DR graphs will show that the differences between the EM5 sensor and the current panasonic one will be absolutely minuscule compared to the difference between it and the D800.
Safest prediction ever?

I'll go a couple steps further and predict that DxOmark testing will show that the E-M5 sensor is the G3/GX1 sensor.
It puzzles me, though, how the read/dark noise that I see looks no better (perhaps a tad worse) than the GH2 image-sensor, whereas the photon-shot-noise does look to be better than the GH2's (and I do think that I'm within range of properly comparing the image-sensors with appropriate RAW-scaling correction factors, etc.). Not clear on how/why it would be that the (resulting from higher illumination) photon-shot-noise would (selectively) be improved. Dunno. See:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1041&thread=41363828
 
I'm certain they'll get right on it. On second thought, maybe you should offer them some kind of bribe to work faster. :p

PS: Do you know how much time I waste checking emails ever day? And I got a real good spam filter!
I believe, but the strange is that even with the email showing here and on a few sites, I don't get much spam, I wonder why, on the Gmail one, I got much more but Gmail has a good filter, mostly I only have to empty the spam folder
What I in so many words was attempting to convey in an inoffensive and rather jocular manner was the high probability that the folks at DXO are probably not thrilled by getting email requests, and especially not repeat requests from the same person. Surely you are not the only person who is posing requests. Do you actually expect a reply? By the way, patience is a virtue. ;)
  • Second email sent just in case ... this way they see that I am really interested
Contact us

Thank you for your feedback.

Name: Aleo Veuliah

Email Address: [email protected]

Subject: Olympus OM-D EM-5 tests

Message: Hello, I am wondering why DX0 is taking some time to post the tests of the OMD EM5 Regards, Aleo

--
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

God is the tangential point between zero and infinity.

Imagination is more important than knowledge.

God always take the simplest way.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/photography-by-thomas/
--
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

God is the tangential point between zero and infinity.

Imagination is more important than knowledge.

God always take the simplest way.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/photography-by-thomas/
 
I'm certain they'll get right on it. On second thought, maybe you should offer them some kind of bribe to work faster. :p

PS: Do you know how much time I waste checking emails ever day? And I got a real good spam filter!
I believe, but the strange is that even with the email showing here and on a few sites, I don't get much spam, I wonder why, on the Gmail one, I got much more but Gmail has a good filter, mostly I only have to empty the spam folder
What I in so many words was attempting to convey in an inoffensive and rather jocular manner was the high probability that the folks at DXO are probably not thrilled by getting email requests, and especially not repeat requests from the same person. Surely you are not the only person who is posing requests. Do you actually expect a reply? By the way, patience is a virtue. ;)
Understood now, well, I expect a reply, if they don't tell me anything it will be the first time that happens, I don't know well the behavior of DXO mark site, let's see, it was worth trying it and it was for free :)

Yes indeed patience is a virtue, I will wait ...

--
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

God is the tangential point between zero and infinity.

Imagination is more important than knowledge.

God always take the simplest way.
 
It's kinda sad to see just how ridiculously insecure you are... what did you say, what do you do for a living?
I can see your interest isn't entirely scientific :D
If yours was, you would likely have the composure to skip the armchair prognostications. My look at E-M5 Read/Dark Noise indicates that it's base ISO Gain DR will not exceed (and may not even equal) the GH2's.
But, sadly, "your look" does not really weigh too much either - let's face it, in reality you are just as clueless as anyone else here. :P

---
http://instagr.am/p/JvSMWFBYyl
(Now you cannot say I don't have a single pic! :P)
 
I'm waiting for your test results with interest !

Good Sunday shooting.
--
rrr_hhh
 
Probably best not to discuss what you are full of.

I take great pleasure in seeing what is there, not what I have been convinced is going to be there.
"On screen, small prints" is irrelevant to me. I do large prints.

I've yet to see anything from the Fuji that makes me think it will make more attractive large prints than the OM-D.
What you are able to see it not the criteria on which things work in world. You were not able to see the difference between D3 and GH2 also, that says a lot about your ability to see.

Further people do not buy things based on what is relevant to you. You are full of yourself.
The only camera I have seen that has a significant advantage is the D800, which has exceptional res (purely thanks to its exceptional pixel count).
That will be very interesting Terry, to be honest, I'm quite surprised/disappointed in the reports I've seen by X-Pro 1 + E-M5 owners that IQ is comparable with the X-Pro 1 - I'm pretty much convinced there's a significant difference in sensor quality.
I wholeheartedly second that. However the difference is not monumental. At the pixel level there is no contest (the XP1's photosites are very roughly 50% larger after all) - but for all practical purposes (on screen, small prints) its not a landslide victory for the Fuji.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
http://thegentlemansnapper.blogspot.com
--
::> I make spelling mistakes. May Dog forgive me for this.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
http://thegentlemansnapper.blogspot.com
 
"On screen, small prints" is irrelevant to me. I do large prints.

I've yet to see anything from the Fuji that makes me think it will make more attractive large prints than the OM-D.

The only camera I have seen that has a significant advantage is the D800, which has exceptional res (purely thanks to its exceptional pixel count).
Louis - for large prints both cameras sould yield comparable results. I've yet to print anything from those cameras - waiting for my colormunki. There is however a certain 3-d "pop" in the fuji jpegs. The tonal range seems wider as well. For the kind of shots you take (very well might I add) the Fuji seems a better choice. I'm a bit underwhelmed by the Oly raws.

I'm torn between going all in in m43 land (12, 25, 50f2 and 12-60) vs a XPRO-1. The D800 is still months away from delievery...

Louis btw - how do you go about setting the dpi in-camera? Equal to printer native resolution (epson r3000)?
 
The other brands provide DxO with cameras to test... for some reason Oly didnt do the same, so, they have to buy from retail......
Seems like they aren't going to get around to it.
I would not trust the specs of a camera that had been provided to me for testing.

Even decades ago, even a manufacturer with half an IQ point in-between all the executives would at the least make sure that any such provided camera would be in perfect condition (in regard to sample variation - quality control) and at the very most, with a cherry-picked sensor, LCD, etc.

DXO should do the same for all cameras and lenses. Buy them, and them dump them in almosty-new condition with warranty card on ebay.
 

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